On what basis can muslims claim the torah or bible are corrupted? And on what basis can they claim islam is an uncorrupted version of the original books when its versions of events are never mentioned in any version that exists of the bible or torah that predates muhammed? There is no possible way muhammed could even be aware they're corrupted much less know what they originally said.And how convenient that the true "uncorrupted" versions happen to line up and support mohammeds claims of him being a prophet?This is such a basic fundamental flaw for the entire concept of islam so how do muslims cope?
>>18722466Multiple versions with no clear answer to the original
>>18722542When it comes to Christianity Vs Islam. It comes down to this.Who should I trust Jesus Christ or Muhammad?Who was a better person? The Jesus of the bible said he was the way the truth and the life, before Abraham was I am.Muhammad of the Qur'an and of the hadith did some horrible things with men in the desert and marrying Aisha. That alone debunks Islam.The bible warns "If we or an angel from heaven preaches to you another gospel let him be accursed". An angel supposedly appeared before Muhammad bringing another gospel To be a Muslim is also to accept accounts about Jesus, 500 years after his death are more accurate than the actual Apostle's accounts who knew him. The Qur'an says the bible came from God Is God not powerful enough to preserve the accuracy of the bible? This is the Islamic dilemma that Sam Shamoun talks about in his debates on YouTube. Look it up Islam is also a religion of works. You can't eat this, you are encouraged to be circumcised , you must pray 5 times a day. You must go on a pilgrimage etc etc. Islam is an Arabic Judaism. Christianity debunked this. Finally the real Qur'an is only to be read in Arabic. Muslims say any translation is not the real Qur'an. Again this is not from God
>>18722466the general view within christianity is that the bible was written by people and is therefore open to interpretation while the view within Islam is that the Koran is the direct word of God transcribed exactly as it was said by Muhammed. the corruption they mention is essentially just that the Bible is not the literal word of God but rather the human interpretation of the word of God.
bump
>>18722466>so how do Muslims copeFor me I just look at the fruits of Christian religion. When I see how degenerate and evil Christians are, both historically and contemporarily, I see how clearly Allah swt has left them to destroy themselves in sin. When all you have to defend your religion is clever debate you are no better than Jews.
>>18722825Al Zutt hadith and Aisha debunk Islam
>>18722826That’s nice, anon.
>Rewritten by Ezra from memory, no temple so impossible to actually practice>Claims Jesus is god completely breaking with monotheism and is clearly the opposite of what early christians believe.
If your IQ were above 105 you would immediately know for fact that the whole religion was created by a group of collaborators who were skilled, and influential. And had the means. Abu Bakr is a poet, and one of the collaborators of the Quran.The Quran itself was not perfectly preserved, several versions existed, and they were more than just minor differences.Some early Qurans had no Surah 1, some early Qurans had no Surah 113 anf 114. Some Qurans had an additional Surah 115 and 116. Some Qurans had additional Muqatta'at. If the Muqatta'at were significant, then this would be a big change.The religion in unquestionably just Arab Paganism combined with Judaism combined with Christianity, specifically just to appeal to the Yathrib residents who were the first real supporters.Hijab, Kaaba, even Allah, all come from Preislamic arabic religion, stolen. Allah was not the arabic word for god yet, it used to be a polytheistic god who had three daughters. This is not only mentioned in quran but in preislamic literature. Allah was not god but a god back then. And he was the god muhammads family liked the most.Muhammads wife khadija was extremely wealthy and influential and she died right around when Islam began and he used her money to pay soldiers to help him "peacefully" convert people.
>>18722466>On what basis can muslims claim the torah or bible are corrupted?I've done reading into the bible, so I know for fact christianity is a false madeup religion. This opens the doors for other religions that claim christianity to be wrong to be true
>>18722875>Rewritten by Ezra from memory, no temple so impossible to actually practiceYeah so how could mohammed know what was originally said?
>>18722466>trust me broThe same basis anyobe that follows desert schizo scribes
>>18722888>Some early Qurans had no Surah 1, some early Qurans had no Surah 113 anf 114. Some Qurans had an additional Surah 115 and 116. Some Qurans had additional Muqatta'atSource: My ass
>>18722563>Who was a better person? The Jesus of the bible said he was the way the truth and the life, before Abraham was I am.Wow, so convincent. Christ is kang. Trust me bro>Muhammad of the Qur'an and of the hadith did some horrible things with men in the desert and marrying Aisha. That alone debunks Islam.What about moses and david? They were governors and killed people. You are not being honest>The bible warns "If we or an angel from heaven preaches to you another gospel let him be accursed".So we must trust paul, who never met jesus and created the whole christian doctrine. Sure>Is God not powerful enough to preserve the accuracy of the bible? This is the Islamic dilemma that Sam Shamoun talks about in his debates on YouTube. Look it upNo, the quran says that was a God's decision.>Islam is also a religion of works. You can't eat this, you are encouraged to be circumcised , you must pray 5 times a day. You must go on a pilgrimage etc etc. Islam is an Arabic Judaism. Christianity debunked this. No, jesus said that someone saying"Lord, Lord" doesnt mean that he will be saved.The bible is full of contradiction.>Finally the real Qur'an is only to be read in Arabic. Muslims say any translation is not the real Qur'an. Again this is not from GodDid jesus speak greek or even latin? lmao.
>>187231451. There isn't a single record of Jews or Christians prior to the time of Muhammad who believed that there would arise a great final prophet among the Arabians to deliver a book like the Quran.2. The Quran lifts stories from the Talmud and New Testament apocrypha which don't have a good basis in history despite presenting them as such.3. The Kaaba and the black stone appear to bear no connection to the Abrahamic tradition prior to the rise of Islam and modern scholarship strongly suggests their origin lay purely in pre-Islamic polytheism.4. Muhammad did no verifiable miracles or otherwise provide proof for his prophethood other than "trust me bro".5. There is no record or evidence for the existence of the Quranic Tawrat, Zabul, and Injeel. Jews and Christians never believed their scriptures were hand delivered verbatim revelations of God as the Quran seems to conceptualize them as being.6. The Islamic dilemma which needs no explanation since I'm sure most on here are familiar with it.The thing with Islam is that it literally has no case for it. It doesn't even try to make a case for itself other than "wowo! look at the neat poetry of the Quran!" At least Christians can make a case from the resurrection. Muslims have literally nothing that doesn't rest upon circular reasoning. I challenge Muslims now to give me a single good reason, a single good case, as to why Jews or Christians should accept the veracity of Muhammad. Why should I believe in the Quran? What about the Quran is evidence or proof of divine inspiration?
>>18723145>Did jesus speak greekYes, his conversation with Pilate certainly wasn't in Aramaic nor was there a translator
>>18723153Well it could be true, because jesus was very intelligent and well educated. So it could be true that his conversation with pilate was in greek.But, did jesus followers speak greek? Did the most of jewish people speak greek in that time? No, so we conclude that most of his teaching were not in greek.
>>18723150>1. There isn't a single record of Jews or Christians prior to the time of Muhammad who believed that there would arise a great final prophet among the Arabians to deliver a book like the Quran.There exist the concpet of paraclytus in the bible. Christians says that it refers to holy spirit. >2. The Quran lifts stories from the Talmud and New Testament apocrypha which don't have a good basis in history despite presenting them as such.This is a vague argumentation. The fact of quran making a difference betwen the title of pharaon and king in different egypt ages is very impresive.Even the Noe Boat is more credible beacuse quran says that it was not a universal flood, but a punishment to Noe's people.>3. The Kaaba and the black stone appear to bear no connection to the Abrahamic tradition prior to the rise of Islam and modern scholarship strongly suggests their origin lay purely in pre-Islamic polytheism.Lmao, even the bible refers ismail as someone who will be important. And islam doesn't dissaprove cultural differences. >5. There is no record or evidence for the existence of the Quranic Tawrat, Zabul, and Injeel. Jews and Christians never believed their scriptures were hand delivered verbatim revelations of God as the Quran seems to conceptualize them as being.Sure, thats why only 1% of people who were able to read changed the scriptures according to the governors wishes. Thats why the bible is full of contradictions.
>>18723150>6. The Islamic dilemma which needs no explanation since I'm sure most on here are familiar with it.That was not such a thing like a islamic dilemma. The whole al buqara surah is about people who changed the scriptures. So the was not such dilemma at all.>At least Christians can make a case from the resurrection.Kek. Sure. A God who died.>Muslims have literally nothing that doesn't rest upon circular reasoning. 1≠3. That is enough.>I challenge Muslims now to give me a single good reason, a single good case, as to why Jews or Christians should accept the veracity of Muhammad. Kek, even jews think that christians are polyteist.>Why should I believe in the Quran? What about the Quran is evidence or proof of divine inspiration?1≠3. You workship a jew. The quran has no contradictions and it was preserved with no changes until today. You workship a jew.
>>18722825So you just completely ignore it as it destroys the whole theological basis of the quran and cope by believing in a magic man in the sky gotcha.
>>18723162>But, did jesus followers speak greek?Yes, Matthew was literally a former tax collector. Judea was not linguistically isolated, Greek had been the lingua franca of the region since Alexander. The fact that the NT was written in Greek is exactly why Christianity spread so rapidly. Greek was the English of the ancient world.
>>18723296Islam is the truth and it is impossible to debunk it. Christian YouTube/X apologists rely on clever debate, gotcha’s, and influencer personality cults to make their points seem persuasive and undeniable. They’re all going to jahannam and resent Muslims for our faith in Allah swt
>>18723318>Islam is the truth and it is impossible to debunk itIts very easy to debunk it since fairytales aren't real.And the point in the OP just opened up a major hole in its theology.
>>18723328That’s nice, anon.
>>18723330Yo're taking your religion being proven false quite well
>>18723353You haven’t said a single thing to disprove Islam and neither has anyone else in history. If you had any argument you would have posted it.
>>18723515See>>18722466
>On what basis can muslims claim the torah or bible are corrupted?They said it so it must be true.
