>>18723004Matthew 5:18>For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.Most Christians just ignore this verse from Jesus because Paul contradicts it later (someone who never even met Jesus while he was alive)
>>18723004>>18723004>till all be fulfilledIt was fulfilled.
>>18723063Heaven and Earth haven't passed away
>>18723067They don't have to. The Law was fulfilled.
1. The Old Testament God was the trinity, with Jesus yet to be born in the flesh, but LOGOS, the Father, and the Holy Spirit still emanating.2. The verse was referring to non-Israelite gods such as the golden calf, Remphan, Molech and Baal. The Son of God is exempt from this.
>>18723004This was actually a highly contentious and debated point during the first 200 years of the Christian religion.There were splits between 1. those who believed the old testament laws still applied to all Christians, 2. those who believed the laws applied to ethnically Jewish Christians but not to gentile Christians, and 3. those who believed the laws had been fulfilled by Christ and no longer applied to anyone.The simple answer is that that latter group won the debate.
>>18723004It says on page 458 of the Bible that all that shit about sowing two grains in the same field and whatnot was just hilarious crap GOD told the Israelis for shits and giggles and the rest of us aren't supposed to follow any of that
>>18723080Why would Jesus warn his disciples that anyone who ignores even the smallest command of the law a d teaches others to do the same will be called the smallest in the kingdom of heaven if the law was going to be fulfilled and abolished in just a few weeks during his crucifixion?Jesus was well aware when he was going to die, just a few days from then, so why would he bother teaching that if he knew in just a few weeks he would end the law?
>>18723205To teach them that he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. It is a massive difference not just for those few days but for all eternity.
>>18723206But he taught them to keep the law and teach others to keep the law. Also, do you realize fulfilling the law = keeping the law? How else do you fulfill a set of instructions if not by following them?
>>18723210The law tells goyim not to follow it
>>18723217Leviticus 18:26>But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things. The law was both for the Israelite and for the gentile who wanted to belong to Israel and live among them.
>>18723063what does it even mean for 'the law to be fulfilled'? a promise can be fulfilled. this is 'colourless green dreams sleep furiously' category shit. and, unlike with the many christard copes, I am sure this is something lost on translation, along with Paul's usage of 'justified'.
>>18723210>do you realize fulfilling the law = keeping the lawyeah, but for some reason he could not plainly said so, instead used a turn of phrase for which we have no record elsewhere, and so people like you have to make shit up like yes=no, white=black, fulfilling=keeping and so on.
>>18723067Are an actual retard? Jesus is using a hyperbole, he's saying that earth and heaven are most likely to pass away than the law nit being fulfilled
>>18723230Brother Jackson has explained it here:https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtMorningWorship/pub-jwb_201705_12_VIDEO
>>18723225Yeah it's referring to physically living the camp/land of Israel. If you're a goy who's not living in Palestine you're not supposed to follow the law.
>>18723236Context reveals his meaning. He goes on to explain how you must keep even the least of the laws and teach others to do so. So obviously he didn't meant that he did away with the law. Fulfill cannot mean abolish because he said I did not come to abolish it but to fulfill it. So it would make no sense if fulfill was just a synonym for abolish.>>18723250Israel is a vine and anyone who loves God and obeys him is grafted in even if they live in Aruba.
>>18723210He taught them to keep the law when the law was to be kept. Then he fulfilled it. And he makes a point that fulfillment is not an abolishment.>do you realize fulfilling the law = keeping the law?So after the law is all kept, it will pass? That's how you're reading >>18723054? That makes no sense.>>18723225Some laws are, some laws aren't. That's why Apostles decided that some laws apply to gentiles, such as not consuming blood, but some don't.>>18723230The law is given as a means to fight sin. For example the ritual of atonement. But since God has become the sacrificial lamb Himself, that fight is over. The point of having the law is fulfilled. It's not really a question of translation, we still talk about spirit and letter of the law in legal contexts today and we can usually tell when only one of the two was fulfilled.
>>18723273>Israel is a vine and anyone who loves God and obeys him is grafted in even if they live in Aruba.Yeah, spiritual Israel under the new covenant. Has nothing to do with old testament law.
Imagine debating a fairy tail written by desert privatives 2000 years ago. Its so fucking cute.
btw I'm a sigma male
>>18723230Whatever it means, Paul uses the same language, so it shouldn't be taken for granted that Paul and Jesus disagree with each other. "Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:10) Paul even talks about a "Christ's law" separate from the OT law that he still considers himself to be subject to. (1 Corinthians 9:21)>>18723273>Context reveals his meaningThe context is that Jesus immediately sets about intensifying various OT rules and, in one case, reversing a rule ("an eye for an eye").
>>18723321Did Paul ever preached to love your enemies and those who hate you and to do good to them? Did any epistle of any apostile? In the whole entire bible Jesus is the only one to teach that gospel.
>>18723342There's picrel from Romans 12 and probably a few other similar things Paul says that I don't remember offhand.
>>18723291Do you know why Canaan was wiped out? Because the broke God's law. God told Israel when he taught them the law about what they were not allowed to do that the reason he is kicking Canaan out of their land and giving the land to them is because they do the detestable things prohibited by the law.So yearh every single person on earth has the obligation to keep the law even if they're not part of the covenant because if they continually do the things prohibited by the law God will destroy them.The exact reason why God hates and rejects the goyim in the first place is because they do the things prohibited by the law.Do you understand what the law is?
>>18723274>So after the law is all kept, it will pass?Until all is fulfilled is not until the law is fulfilled. Until all is fulfilled is until the end of this age comes and everything ends.
>>18723351>Do you know why Canaan was wiped out? Because the broke God's law.They were destroyed because they broke the Noahide law, not the Mosaic law.
>>18723359So you're telling me that it's OK in God's eyes for a goyim to sleep with his own mother? The sexual prohibitions from the Mosaic Law are not part of the Noahide laws, yet when God gave the sexual prohibitions to Israel he told them:>“‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.So it is clear than anyone who does the things prohibited by the law becomes defiled and eventually punished and destroyed whether they are Israelites or not.If you want to live and expect good things you must keep the law because God punishes everyone who breaks the law regardless of who they are.God gave the law to Israel out of love because he wanted them to avoid having his punishment fall on them. Because they fall on anyone who does these things.
>>18723004Because through the death of Jesus and the resurrection of the living body of Christ the old covenant was fulfilled and the new Covenant established. Dispensationalism is a jewish heresy invented in the 1830s.
>>18723356You said that keeping the law is fulfilling the law. If keeping = fulfilling then you can substitute "not an iota will pass until it is fulfilled" into "not an iota will pass until it is kept". I don't think that holds water. It seems to me (and to Apostles in Acts afaik) much more sensible to read the Law as not applying to Christians.
>>18723377>The sexual prohibitions from the Mosaic Law are not part of the Noahide laws, yet when God gave the sexual prohibitions to Israel he told them:They literally are. It's the fourth law.
>>18723380>They literally are. It's the fourth law.My mistake.But is God OK with goyim practicing witchcraft, sorcery and magic? God tells Israel the same thing when he gives them the occult prohibitions and these occult prohibition laws are definitely not part of Noahide laws:>When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the Lord your God.
>>18723385Witchcraft is forbidden to goyim to the extent that it ascribes supernatural powers to any entity other than God which is a violation of the first law.
>>18723379>will pass until it is keptUntil ALL is fulfilled (or accomplished)What does it mean to fulfill a request? Or fulfill an order?
>>18723321Paul even has a similar rhetorical move to Jesus saying "I have not come to destroy the law" in Romans 3 (which also incidentally mentions "The law and the prophets" together, just like Jesus does), where he contrasts the law of faith with the law of works, and he says "Do we then overthrow the law through this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."
>>18723274>That's why Apostles decided that some laws apply to gentiles, such as not consuming bloodChristians may consume blood in the form of blood sausage. Only judaizing American sects refrain from eating blood sausage, which is very popular in Europe.
>>18723392>Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
>>18723406This is just the first noahide law again
>>18723418You have not read more than one sentence of any of my comments
>>18723425Can you actually make an argument that you want me to address then instead of posting block quotations without saying what your point is?
>>18723405Do you know why God prohibits the eating of blood? It is a huge sin to eat the life of an animal.Not eating blood is a command that was given even to Noah. It is a Noahide law to not eat blood.God told Noah:>“But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
>>18723433The Festival of Tabernacle is not a Noahide law. But God says he will finish any nation who does not celebrate it.
>>18723080>>18723243>"The words of the verse don't actually matter!"
>>18723436You should try reading your own quotes then. God is not commanding gentiles to build a Sukkah and celebrate the festival. This is a prophecy of the nations of the world in the future offering sacrifices in Jerusalem to atone for their attacks against the holy city.
>>18723405Christians may also consume blood in the form of consecrated wine, something I still don't get how Christians can so easily avoid seeing as knowingly rebellious against the OT rules forbidding it.
>>18723444Why do they have to celebrate the Festival from the law?L
>>18723450It's not the blood of an animal.
>>18723457Leviticus 17:14 says, "I say to the sons of Israel, *blood of any flesh* ye do not eat, for the life of all flesh is its blood; any one eating it is cut off."
>>18723453That's not how you celebrate it
>>18723080Nice category mistake, dumbass.
>>18723472If was a flesh with eternal life blood, not regular life blood I guess.
>>18723475>This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles
>>18723004In the Council of Jerusalem (~50 CE) it was decided that Gentile Christians do not have to undergo circumcision or follow the strict Mosaic Law to get saved.Specifically not excluded are these bans though:>eating food sacrificed to idols>consuming blood>eating the meat of strangled animals>sexual immorality: fornication and pagan sexual practices
>>18723511It's a future prophecy, not a current instruction to celebrate sukkot. Sukkot was historically the holiday when sacrifices were offered in Israel for the gentile nations of the world. The prophecy is regarding them bringing their own sacrifices.
>>18723004Judeochristian are foul polytheists
>>18723004because following the jew rules is the old covenant, dumbass
>>18723544So they have to keep the law in the future but not today?Does God loves a goyim who does not respect elderly people? Which law is OK for the goy who wants to please God to break?
>>18723521>In the Council of Jerusalem (~50 CE) it was decided that Gentile Christians do not have to undergo circumcisionThen how will they enter Jerusalem?Isaiah 52:1>Awake, awake, Zion, clothe yourself with strength! Put on your garments of splendor, Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.
>>18723549Islam was created so that dark hell-spawned demons could worship and serve the living body of the one true God, formed of its members that are God's children. Sadly, today you who bear the mark of the beast written in your flesh sometimes worship a cube, or a devil you think is God, but in either case none of you now recognize where your loyalty should belong, or under what circumstance some say you may deserve to continue living. Me, I say Muhammad was a heretic, and that all you dark hell-spawned demons belong in hell.
>>18723562Fuck Muhammed. And fuck white Nephilim people. Blue eyes are the mark that you're the offspring of the fallen ones. Nobody had blue eyes before the watchers fell and mixed with mankind.
>>18723004
>>18723567You were born in hell, and hell is where you belong. God's children are not of this world, and that is why they have been sent salvation from death in Christ. John 15:19
>>18723554They don't need to keep the law. They need to offer sacrifices for atonement in the future.
>>18723554>>18723642Just to elaborate, all nations in the world will worship the God of Israel in the messianic age. They won't be bound by mosaic law but all the nations will serve God in the rebuilt Temple. That's what the prophecy is talking about.
>>18723571The instructions of a father should be a delight to a son's ears but you detest the instructions of God. Must be that you're not his son but instead the son of he lawless one, and that is why you love lawlessness and preach it to everyone.
>>18723642It says they need to celebrate the feast.>>18723648>They won't be bound by mosaic lawThen why do they have to celebrate the feast?
>>18723654Future tense
>>18723662If they had kept the law today maybe God wouldn't be so hostile with them in the future, don't you think?
>>18723665The Noahide laws. The Mosaic laws were put in place to make Israel a nation apart from the other nations, it was explicitly not intended for the world.
>>18723672Noahide Law is Godliness 101Mosaic Law is Godliness 201Also circumcision was given to all children of Abraham, not just Israel. And according to New Testament if you have faith in God you're adopted as a child of Abraham. So then if you're Abraham's seed then the covenant of circumcision suddenly applies to you, no?For so long God associated foreskin with uncleanness and unrighteousness that I don't know why would anyone who loves would would want to keep it. Do you absolutely need it to be saved and will surely go to hell if you don't do it? Likely not, if you want to enter heaven doing the bare minimum go ahead. But I don't see how someone who loves God would not be ashamed of having a foreskin. And I say this as someone who still has his foreskin.
>>18723687Abraham's other descendants are excluded from the covenant with Isaac and Jacob.
>>18723004We don't, but not all of them pertain to New Testament practice.>>18723054>>18723067>>18723300>>18723302Enjoy Hell.
>>18723653It is mischaracterization to say that Christianity is the abolishment of the Law, under the New Covenant the Law has returned to where it belongs, an intrinsic property of the body which is its embodiment and author, the body of the one true living God, the body of Christ formed of its members. You reject the New Covenant and salvation from death in Christ, but I tell you that the Law will not save you from death because you do not obey the Law and God sees all your wickedness.
>>18723787>because you do not obey the Law and God sees all your wickedness.Bro, I don't steal, I deal fairly with people and treat them with respect and kindness. I don't commit adultery. I fast twice a week and give at least 10% of every paycheck to the church or to charity (sometimes a LOT more).
>>18723004Christ himself said that he came to fulfill the Law and establish a new covenant with God's followers. The jews crucified jesus shortly afterwards.
>>18723797The jews are not seen as a holy people worthy of preservation from death because they have not followed the Law, and so their destruction is God's righteousness made manifest.
>>18723799>the romans crucified jesus shortly afterwardsftfy
>>18723736Nope. He was made the father of many nations and all those nations are circumcised. The covenant of circumcision predates Israel, that's why the first person Abraham circumcised after himself was Ishmael.
>>18723385>God tells Israel the same thing when he gives them the occult prohibitionsIs necromancy prohibited?
>>18723880The covenant of circumcision is related to the inheritance of the land of Israel which was given to Isaac exclusively. That Abraham circumcised everyone in his house is not surprising considering that was the covenant.>5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.>6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.Genesis 25:5-6
>>18723898Isaac is the promised child. To him alone was given the promise out of all his brothers. The covenant of circumcision applies to all the children of Abraham though. >“As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.All descendants of Abraham are part of the covenant of circumcision.
>>18723210Look up supersessionism there's (your) answer if you're smart enough to understand it
>>18723225>LeviticusAbrogated by Paul. Gentiles get to keep their penises intact and healthySucks to suck mohel's boi
>>18723919Wrong. You don't know more than Dr. Saint Paul (formerly Saul) of Tarsus. Christians do not have to circumcise, that is literally in the New Testament which Evangelicals and Baptists are somehow unaware of
>>18723273>He goes on to explain how you must keep even the least of the laws and teach others to do so.he CHANGES the law in that context. forbids divorce, for one. you might just as well claim that fulfill=make it autistically tighter. of course, the 'context' is not a context to this particular claim of 'fulfilling the law', and I stand by my statement that the original meaning is lost.
>>18724254God always hated divorce. The Book of Malachi shows it. A man must not abandon his first wife to go with his second wife, he must take care of both.
>>18723958God said the covenant of circumcision is everlasting. Anyone who tells you the covenant of circumcision has ended is calling God a liar. Paul doesn't know more than God.
>>18723004Those aren’t Christians. Real Christians don’t do this
>>18724556The covenant is everlasting, but now it is the covenant of baptism.
>>18724556Paul wrote God's Word. I never said he knows more than God. Are you retarded or just jewish?
>>18724571God's words cannot contradict God's previous words. God wouldn't have called it everlasting if he was planning on abolishing it a few thousand years later.A thousand years is nothing to God for him to have called that small period that lasted the covenant, everlasting.
>>18724598The covenant is changed, not abolished. Read Galatians 3
>>18724571Paul was a righteous Pharisee who infiltrated the Christian religion in order to stop gentiles from appropriating the Torah
>>18724598>contradictWrong. I never made the claim, you did. And you can't prove it anyway because the NT is not about contradicting the LXX.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism
>>18724603Paul never denied being a Pharisee. The rest is your brain rotted jewish fanfic
>>18724602Read Deuteronomy where God himself speaks personally in first person.
>>18724610Paul>was a Phariseecheck>who became Christiancheck>who rose to a position of authoritycheck>whose primary teaching was to stop gentiles from following the Torahcheck.Sorry, but the story checks out.
>>18724660The entire bible is God speaking
>>18724677Paul gives his own personal opinion a lot in the epistles.1 Corinthians 7:12>To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.He's saying this, not God. Later in another letter he says you should have no fellowship with unbelievers. He contradicts himself because he is giving his own personal opinion and not channeling God's voice like the prophets did.
>>18724788>Later in another letter he says you should have no fellowship with unbelievers. He contradicts himselfAssuming you mean 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1, it's awkward enough where it is and with respect to Paul in general that lots of people have suspected it of not being by Paul at all. Picrel is a footnote from the NABRE translation concerning it.
>>18724665>whose primary teaching was to stop gentiles from following the Torah Big if true. But you're absolutely wrong because Early Christians read the LXX and Paul never prohibited it. He said they don't have to circumcise which is pretty based if you ask me
>>18723770>We don'tOkay. Why are you larping as spiritually Jewish?
