How could the Polacks have beat-back/fully repelled the invasion by the Soviets and Nazis into Poland? Could France or England actually have helped them?
Is this gonna turn out to be some sort of bait thread
>>18730617>vague historical question>no related to any weapons>topic concerns Eastern EuropeIt's pretty clearly some sort of bait thread.I just can't figure out who's supposed to get baited.
>>18730616>France zergrushes straight to BerlinWould it have worked?
>>18730619Ironically yes. If France actually going offensive instead of turtling and trusting their proud Maginot line and Belgium, they could have easily crushed the military build up Hitler spent building inside the Rhine.
>>18730616I doubt they could have prevented Poland getting captured, even if germany got murked halfway through that being said, if the Britbongs and France attacked immediately Germany would have been flattened>France had a direct route to germany>France had no fucking idea how to use their tanks and having radio or a dedicated loader was considered gay or something >decent airforce>brits figured out how the whole amphibious transportation and assault works, decent air force britbong tanks were kind of poo at the start (arguably only marginally better later on not counting borrowed US designs)on the ground France and Brits had the advantage, what people forget is how much the German airforce helped with the invasion, that is the advantage over alies
>>18730620Would've been the end of the rhine huh
>>18730622Dammit, Karlos!
>>18730621>I doubt they could have prevented Poland getting capturedIt might've. France and the UK moving in on the Ruhr and cities along the Rhine could've forced Hitler to halt in Poland in order to move forces back into Germany proper.
>>18730616Modern poland with all its fancy gear would bend over to todays germany.Its just the nature of things/Thread
>>18730624Where would that leave a Soviet invasion on the other side?
>>18730626If the war suddenly started turning against Germany it's not unreasonable to assume Stalin would wait to see how things play out.
>>18730617see>>18730625
>>18730616>beat-back/fully repellnot doable, IMHO. Even if you grant them with advanced tactics to minimize loss of manpower, it's not feasible to hold off two fronts against bigger armies forever.You'd need Polan to halt Germans long enough for Allies to mobilize and wipe out Germany, hopefully in time to beat back advancing Soviets with unified forces. But the politics in '39 were nowhere near to that happening, it would only work if the Allies were the ones preparing for total war. And the best you get out of this is Poland not totally disappearing during the war, but they'd still be suffering from being the battlefield.What I think could've been a real, and feasible, gamechanger is going back to the '20s and playing on the Poles' war paranoia. You have a country that just regained independence, and the population has many veterans of wars and uprisings. Arm everyone and organize civilian trainings, basically the 'rifle behind every blade of grass' idea, supported by national propaganda. Poland had issues equipping their own military, but that's partly because of what constitued as 'military grade' equipment at the time. If civilians created massive market demand, I'm pretty sure something akin to VG-2 and knee pads could've saturated the market by the '30s. I'm not saying that armed civilians make a country unconquerable, but I guess this would put a wrench in any strategist's plans. Germany would either not invade at all, or push more strongly for a Polish-German alliance against the commie revolution (which was actually close to happening, had Pilsudsky lived a few years longer or left behind a stronger successor)
>>18730616If the Polacks had never killed interwar ethnic Germans and if they had paid those ethnic Germans to leave, a lot could have been avoided for them.Poland was asking for it and many Polish are simply different-speaking Germans.
Magic
it's simple. simply kill them
>>18730625>>>18730630never happened but it should have
>>18730620Poland could have done better as well.A main reason why Poland fell so quickly was because the government insisted that strong divisions would be placed inside the corridor.The Polish generals protested and said that if Germany attacks, they will attack from all 3 directions, and the entire army in the corridor would be cut off an destroyed in the opening blow. Polish generals insisted that the corridor should be left undefended, that the bulk of the military should be behind the Vistula river in order to gain strategic depth and absorb any invasion (which is correct, and the river would have provided a huge strategic advantage as a defensive line).The reason the government demanded that the corridor must be defended was because they feared that Germany may only commit to a limited invasion around only the corridor and Danzig, and that if these were left undefended and surrendered to Germany without a fight, the western powers might just concede this territory to Germany in a second Munich-esque agreement, and avoid a war altogehter.
>>18730698It was one of the reasons, the other more important one is that majority ethnically Polish regions, which most of the country's industry, with all the bigest cities (from Poland's 10 biggest cities, 8 were located west of Vistula) were in the west, close to Germany's border, without the industry, the ammo would run out after max 2 months of fighting but again, it wouldn't matter. No matter what strategy Poles would use, they could't defended themselves, they were a poor agrarian country facing off against a country with the second strongest industry in the world
Polish warriors always genocide germutts
>>18730616For thousands of years, Poles have been defending europe from savage german orcs>Polish heroes raped germs in 1466>Polish warriors annihilated germs in 1521>Polish knights destroyed germs in 1806>Polish crusaders obliterated germs in 1919>Polish demigods exterminated germs in 1945
>>18730619>>18730620>>65568074>>65568093France invaded Germany first.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Offensive
>>18731905Saaaar
>>18731907And they STILL got BTFO.
>>18730616They weren't told about the German-Soviet alliance part.The actual plan was to hold out until winter if everything goes brilliantly the weather itself would've bought even more time for the French to fully mobilise and prepare to their part of the war. If magic happened then French offensive would've started before the entirety of Poland was conquered but that wasn't exactly expected.It's rather dubious, seeing from Rydz-Śmigły's orders as well as memoirs of some of the other commanders that there ever was an idea that the invasion will be repelled, they hoped for a Serbia in WW1 scenario to play out - waste enough enemy time to give some advantage to your side of the war and profit from it on the peace table even though you've became occupied eventually.Now in general they did manage to "win" enough time for the Germans to not try to attack France the same year, which for all that was worth meant that their side of the deal was fulfilled. That the Germans rolled every single dice right before and during the battle of France and the Franco-British side had negligible ability to exert pressure on the USSR is another story.
>>18730619French military was deprived of professional troops and although they were given 2 years draft in 1938, up from 1 years draft between 1929 and then, as you can imagine not a single draft year managed to finish that 2 years of service.This meant that there was never a cadre of people that could've been used to change the way French mobilisation worked, and it worked the following way:>French standing army divisions split into 3 parts>2 new brigades are formed out of freshly mobilised soldiers>The divisions undergo training afterwards to make the questionably worthwhile mobilised into something useful(they needed circa 3 months)There was never an option for French invasion to do much outside of taking part of Saarland.>>18730621>France had no fucking idea how to use their tanks and having radio or a dedicated loader was considered gay or somethingFrench military had 85k professionals to spare in their military where do you see these radio operators coming from?>decent airforceTrade unions made sure that was in process of being built around the time they capitulated.>brits figured out how the whole amphibious transportation and assault works, decent air forceCrossing Danish straights for invasion is a no no if you're going for invasion as they can get mined and Denmark itself captured very easily. Meanwhile Watt sea makes the German North sea coast not exactly a place where you can land troops in easily.
