When and how in the timeline most of mainland Greece outside Pelopponesus and the Isles were replaced by other genetics? I am a clueless westerners and our public school classes stops talking about Greece around the time of Justinian
modern greeks are actually mix of albanians and slavs
>>18732553When did that happened wtf? Never heard of slavs in Greece
The Slavic migration was pretty thorough, far more than the Germanic migration to Italy largely limited to the north, which was originally cisalpine Gallic. The reasons revolve more around geography, agriculture and warfare than sociology. The Slavs were in large part a pastoral people at home in the mountainous terrain and Greece's agricultural land is less voluminous and intensive than Italy's, they thus overwhelmed the locals except in the far south where the unfamiliar Mediterranean climate and maritime economy prevailed.There was a similar trend of Germans trying to settle mountainous land in southern Italy, the Lombards founded the Duchy of Benevento which occupied an area roughly encompassing the territory of Latin tribes like the Samnites which the Romans had struggled to subdue. Though it seems most settlers preferred the north, venturing south was an affair for a handful of soldiers and adventurers who would likely receive land and marry a local woman.
>>18732561Yea most of the Lombard duchies had capitals in small/minor roman cities surrounded by hills or mountains (Friuli, Lucca, Ivrea, Asti, Benevento, Spoleto) to name a few. They prefer to have their own fortresses and left the natives and their larger cities mostly alone and self-governing, as long as they accepted the supreme rule of the Lombard Kings of Pavia and of his local dukesAnyway Italy was so overcrowded even by the pre-industrial standards that no lombards or any other foreigner had a serious hope of leave a large generic impact in the long run. Mainland Greece instead was notoriusly depopulated since at least the late hellenistic age
>>18732539Ancient Greek population was replaced multiple times:Anatolians and Levantines during the Hellenistic eraSlavs during the Middle AgesTurks and Albanians during the Ottoman eraPontics, Cypriots and Asiatic Greeks during the popuation exchange with TurkeyThe Byzantines had to import loads of "Greeks" from Anatolia and Armenia, otherwise modern Greece would be Slavic speaking like Bulgaria and Macedonia.>Apart from military expeditions against Slavs, the re-Hellenization process begun under Nicephorus I involved (often forcible) transfer of peoples.[69] Many Slavs were moved to other parts of the empire, such as Anatolia, and made to serve in the military.[70] In return, many Greeks from Sicily and Asia Minor were brought to the interior of Greece to increase the number of defenders at the Emperor's disposal and to dilute the concentration of Slavs.[66] Even non-Greeks were transferred to the Balkans, such as Armenians.[64] As more of the peripheral territories of the Byzantine Empire were lost in the following centuries, such as Sicily, southern Italy and Asia Minor, their Greek-speakers made their own way back to Greece. The re-Hellenization of Greece by population transfers and cultural activities of the Church was successful, which suggests that Slavs found themselves in the midst of many Greeks.[71]
>>18732539>our public school classes stops talking about Greece around the time of JustinianIn school I remember learning literally nothing about classical civilisation and Im from a supposedly 1st world european country. Most people would simply blink at you if you mentioned Justinian. >When and how in the timeline most of mainland Greece outside Pelopponesus and the Isles were replaced by other genetics?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPt-prfm8ggJust watch this video. This type of information is best conveyed in this format. Its part of the general migration period 300-600 AD after the collapse of the WRE, where roman authorities could no longer prevent this type of large-scale tribal movement. Around 400 AD you had the slavic homeland where they spoke proto-slavic in Polesia, by 500 they established the future western slavic branch, by 650 the southern branch and they fully reached into the balkan peninsula and Greece. The video illustrates well how southern Slavs are not as genetically slavic as other groups, theyre about 50/50 Slavic and (the formerly romanised) paleo-balkan, although this distribution isn't uniform. The Greeks and Macedonians were paleo-balkans themselves but one amongst many peoples, like the Romans amongst their own neighbours, other italic peoples, celtic, and paleo-european groups, when they were originally confined to Latium in central italy. There were many groups that form the ancient genetic substrate of europe, which other cultures effectively wrote over and replaced with their own language. Other paleo-balkan groups were the Thracians, Phyrgians (who later established themselves in central Anatolia), Paeonians, Dacians (modern Romanians), Illyrians (from which Albanians likely descend and their language). By the same time in 650, the Germanic migration and formation into kingdoms in Britain was effectively complete, and they had established outposts of varying importance all over France, Italy, and Spain.
>>18732553Albanians are Illyrians, which is why they appear yellow on the map you tard.
>>18732702No they are a caucasian tribe deported there in the early byzantine age, that wewuzz as illyrians
>>18732608To me there's an implied two levels to this subject, the preservation of both linguistic and genetic legacy. As native Greek speakers quickly became irrelevant in history while the Romance languages flourished, although of course secondary speakers remain strong even until today as hellenophilia remains one constant in european history. The Latins, which are the Romans in the strictest sense, which seems often forgotten and would be unfair to the Greeks if we arent as strict in their definition as we are with theirs, how much we've held onto their genetics seems murky as a subject.The Roman senate increasingly evolved from being composed of Latins, then Italians broadly, and then the wider empire, all being called Roman. The Latins established their language firmly on the Western mediterranean, in one large contiguous zone, which then evolved in each to become dozens of romance languages. The local romanised populations being a mix of celtic, iberian, and later germanic all speaking latin, ignoring african romance. I suppose central and southern italy remain the most genetically preserved Latin and broadly italian populations. While the Greeks, despite over a millenia of predominance in the eastern mediterranean, never truly formed a contiguous core in the same sense, instead predominantly coastal settling which later got subsumed by larger mainland populations. Additionally they barely Hellenised other ethnic groups. I think this is due to the fact that the Latin/Italian war machine was able to punch above its weight demographically and create a broader cultural zone by mindraping celts. They could not hellenize the slavs as the Byzantines were nowhere near as powerful as Rome, or really ever firmly established in the balkans for a long time. They had Anatolia for over 500 years, and at most began Hellenising coastal and western-central Anatolia.They never established a true population-core. They were demographically weak essentially.
>>18732539tldr ancient greeks were shitskins and modern whites are in no way related to them
>>18732750I mean, the fucking Isaurians existed until the 7th century, and these guys were total Anatolian-speaking hicks.Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just shows how ineffective the Byzantines were at "Hellenizing" people. At least, until they got serious with the slavs on the Peloponnese.
>>18732750The founding myth of Rome is that they were Trojan Sea Peoples and the Latins gave them refugee status during BAC after they were rejected by Queen Dido of Carthage.
My dad's G25 compared to two different datasets. He is from the Peloponnese and so his parents and grandparents etc.
>>18732539whats the source of this?
>>18732539Did they have brown nipples/penis?
>>18732957Can you post coords? Although I see they are simulated, K36 I assume? Real would be preferable, but stillAlso, what part(s) of Peloponnese?
>>18732608this
Dad,0.117093,0.146278,0.005945,-0.027321,0.018156,-0.008895,0.002694,0.000246,0.001596,0.018109,0.001627,0.003880,-0.006600,0.000333,-0.010800,-0.004059,0.003957,0.000628,0.003891,-0.005465,-0.002278,0.002147,0.000035,-0.000985,-0.000817
>>18733411Kalavryta btw
>>18732554Anon, I...
>>18732553There were many Orthodox Christian Albanians (Arvanites) who got assimilated into Greek ethnicity after the 1820s.
>>18732736>t. gypsy smrd
>>18733527Son,0.117093,0.146278,0.005945,-0.027321,0.018156,-0.008895,0.002694,0.000246,0.001596,0.018109,0.001627,0.003880,-0.006600,0.000333,-0.010800,-0.004059,0.003957,0.000628,0.003891,-0.005465,-0.002278,0.002147,0.000035,-0.000985,-0.000817
>>18733569Post some list, or else It was likely made up by some albanian/"macedonian"
>>18733527Thanks>>18733530Interesting, I expected Kalavryta to have a stronger Slavic/Eastern European element due to geography and toponymy>>18733708These are the same values as the ones already posted, btw
>>18734397Values?
>>18734252https://brill.com/display/book/9789004425613/BP000004.xml
>>18734403For the coords I mean, if you look at the numbers, they are the same for both samples
>>18734252 It's ok Stavros Pontikos.You are 3000% Ancient Greek.
>>18732539Are there more maps like this, for other parts of the world?
>>18734252The source isVasmer, Max; Die Slaven in Griechenland
>>18733569Is there a list of the toponyms mentioned? Also, does it only take into account the names of villages/towns or mountains, rivers etc as well?
>>18734456You can make your own online, there are various sites, e.g. this one https://genemaps.net/
>>18734464See >>18734461The data is our there somewhere, look it up, there was a database in some repository, but I just have the map saved.It's mostly names of settlements, but some mountains, rivers, valleys etc. are included too, probably around 10%.
https://files.catbox.moe/afx9fq.mp4The modern Greek identity is completely made up by 19th century European monarchs romanticizing stories of Demosthenes and Alexander in their heads. The people of "Greece" went with it because it gave them historical prestige to latch onto.
>>18734972Nations/cultures change over time, part of the can be looking at things from the past to take and adapt for current times, in whatever capacity. Nothing special.
>>18734972The modern Greek identity is completely made up by 19th century European monarchs because Germanics were upstarts with no real legacy and desperately needed Greeks to be "white" to legitimize their always superior,chosen race claims.Of course we know by now that Greeks had minimal IE admixture and were never truly "white". Greeks not being whites mindbroke Germanics who proceeded to create a new "Greek" identity by removing all eastern elements(even if those were Greek exported to anatolia). They then created the Turkish rape baby myth to explain how Greek history(and statues) belong to Germanics. As for the Greeks they had to choose between western imperialism and death by Turks, they never really had a choice.
>>18734453>@IllyrianJ2bL283Why are they like this?
>>18732539North and Central Greeks looked unambiguously white to me, when I visited. I was surprised. Looked like regular French brunettes. Even the rare blonde.Southern Greeks, I only visited Athens, and it's hard to say since there's so many foreigners that clouds my data. But without a doubt North and Central Greeks looked unambiguously European.
>>18735237looks like a reekoid
>>18732736Sup retard. Albanians do not any kavkaz YDNA, how the only kavkaz dna in Albanian is maternal lineages from Circassian women at best. Albanians lack G and J2a, typical kavkaz lineages. These two lineages are more found in Serbs than Albanians, also Anatolian Turks. Roman records put a tribe of people called Serb in modern day Dagestan. Serbs have 4% their YDNA, J2b1, it is not J2b2-l283 which Albanians have, which is 20% of Albanian men. Albanians have 0% J2b1. Iranians have 5% J2b1 and 0% J2b2-l283. Albanians are native, Serbs are some weird Iranian tribe that started speaking Slavic and absorbed lots of male Slavic genes, then enslaved by Avar Turks that brought the to Europe. Btw Serbs have nearly 5% their YDNA central Asian Siberian lineages like N, Q and R1a-z93. Albanians 0%. BTFO
>>18735431Btw, y tree confirms last common ancestor of J2b1 and J2b2-l283 is 15,000 years ago. J2b1 found in Iran and Serbs, not found in gheg Albanians. J2b2-l283 found highly in Albanians, entirely absent in Iran and nearly absent in Serbs.
