Hellenism is actually relatively well properly preserved in text, and thus makes relatively more sense for a neo-pagan to convert to than Norse, Celtic, or Slavic pantheons, which we know next to nothing about because they didn't write anything down
>>18734547Ok, now tell me step by step how to conduct Hellenic worship, with sources.
Why not just practice a surviving pagan faith, such as Shinto or Hinduism? With modern migration waves they shouldn't even be too far from you to join in anymore, there are Hanuman statues in Texas.
>>18734557>Shintotoo non-European>Hinduismstinky bad reputation
>>18734547>How To Make Your Own Dionysian Cult And Friends: The Book
E-pagans seem to take the secular view that religions are manmade and you can just pick them up and drop them whenever you want. I believe the Perennialists critiqued this view on the grounds that they are actually a living connection to the Perennial wisdom, so "resurrecting" a dead one would ultimately be just dressing up in costumes, or "LARP," as they say.
I'm genetically western european but the nordic/celtic religions just never had much sway with me. The stories aren't very profound they reek of a kind of simple tribal people who told tales that had some appeal to their little thoughts. Reminds me of native american "religion" just feels like a fever dream with random violence or sex or DBZ type plots.However the greek mythothology feels like it has a divine spark and preserved something far older and truer. There is no equivalent of promotheus or narcissus or anything in celto-germanic stories. Heracles is a deeper with tragedy and struggle compared to baldr and cu chulainn who are just dbz wish fullment shonen characters.
>>18734547Not true, it was common practice among Roman and Greek priests to keep their rites and rituals deliberately secret.The most complete surviving texts are Egyptian. There is also paganism that survived to this day, there are some 100 million followers of traditional African religion for example along with whatever native Americans are left.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olIkTyAfF7k
>>18734902Heracles, who just ran around on quests slaying various monsters, feels WAY more like a hecking wholesome anime character than Baldr, who for Scandinavians was the epitome of tragedy.
>>18734557cultural appropriation is the issue
Cultural Hellenism gave us Greek philosophy. Being an actual Greek pagan is just a larp though. The best system is probably some kind of synchronism between Christian, Hellenistic, and Deistic ideas.
>>18735595So... Platonism?
>>18734557I'm not religious but the relgions Iike the most are shinto (because I'm a weeb) and ancient egyptian paganism (also an egyptaboo).
>>18734551Silence, of course.
>>18735653>ancient egyptian paganismIt does have interesting theology concepts. And it has good aesthetics. But I'm not sure someone actually believes in Osiris, Isis, etc. I mean, you can't even practise the rituals, at least most of them. What you can do is to claim there's a true God (or gods), who isn't limited by nations. And the Egyptian paganism is the Egyptians' view on God.Same with Platonism. It's easy to accept the philosophical concepts like the One or Nous, but I really doubt a modern Hellenist would sacrifice a hecatomb like the Achaeans in the Iliad did.>shintoNot even Japanese believe in Shinto. They value it as a significant part of their cultural heritage.
>>18734547They really dropped the ball with this shitty game.
>>18734547We have a fairly large body of work covering Germanic religions though. The Slavic and Celtic, however, are pretty mysterious.None are enough to reconstruct a full religious system, but it's not like only the greco-romans have any sources.>>18734557>ShintoJapan specific to Japan, they'd feel like larpers.>HinduismAn internet algorithm told all the chuds they had to hate India like two years ago. So no chance.That said I do know a Neo-Pagan who in want of a native spiritual tradition became a Tibetan Buddhist. Cool guy.>>18735785There are some people who worship Set. It'ss completely divorced from the god's egyptian worship, though.
>>18735822>There are some people who worship SetThe worshippers of Yahweh?
>>18735827Ha! Good one. No no, I mean Satanists of the Temple of Set specifically. Founded by the PSYOP guy with the funky eyebrows.This was before everyone became irrationally convinced he was a Donkey. Btw isn't it insane no one knows what Animal Set represents.
>>18734547There are dozens of cultic variants of gods that are only attested in like one line if pausanias. Anyone who thinks hellenic religion is well preserved is a moron who thinks that religious stories are the religion.
>>18734547>editthis.pngWhich Paradox game is this screenshot from?
>>18735836There are also a variety of Gods the later Greeks and Romans themselves list as forgotten, in fairness.
>>18735845EU V
>>18734547>>18734557>I played a lot of Skyrim and think gods and magic are cool>I wanna be seen as spiritual and ish xDD>And I will NEVER believe in Jesus, no matter what.>I fucking HATE YOU God!!!Kill yourselves. :D
>>18734637>E-pagans seem to take the secular view that religions are manmade and you can just pick them up and drop them whenever you want.Even the historical non-"E" pagans of ancient times have always been of that mentality. Paganism has always been a fluid religion, where elements can be adopted or dropped seemingly arbitrarily. People talk about how Paganism is lacking in formal scripture, but in many cases it never had any to begin with anyway, and if it did then something else could come along later which deviates from it. Even something well attested with literary texts like Greco-Roman mythology have various conflicting texts by different authors who don't entirely agree with one another on which God did what and who their parents or offspring are. One will say one thing, and another will say something completely different. People just picked and chose whatever they wanted, or wrote something new. As I said, completely arbitrarily (seemingly). So your so-called "E-Pagans" aren't doing things any differently. They're doing it exactly as it always has been all along.Also, even the bible has this sort of conflicting accounts within it. There's a lot of things which contradict other stuff, and even the Gospels vary slightly in their accounts from one to the other. Ultimately even practitioners of Abrahamic religions still pick and chose what they want to believe. This always becomes a problem when you have multiple authors involved.
>>18734963>the gods are private property>I can't worship them, that'd be like violating copyrights!that's even lamer than being an abrahamist
>>18735854It really makes no sense to worship the gods of some other people without making it universalist somehow. If you make it a faith based thing, anyway.
>>18735834Set was an Egyptian god of desert and war. Yahweh was a Western Semitic god of desert and war. Iirc, Egyptians actually equalized Set and Yahweh.
>>18735850Christtranny clitty is leaking again
>>18734547>screen from new paradox interactive gamesYou're brown.
>>18735850Maybe he is simply an anti-Abrahamist? He's not the only one. My fafourite anti-Abrahamist is Abu Tahir.>When Abu Tahir, the leader of the Qarmatians, rose to power in Bahrain and gathered an army of rebels, he set his sights on overturning the religious and political order of the world. He was a man of Persian lineage who harbored a deep hostility toward all revealed religions.>In the year 930 AD, Abu Tahir and his army marched upon Mecca during the season of the Hajj. They entered the holy sanctuary by force, putting thousands of defenseless pilgrims to the sword inside the Masjid al-Haram. His men threw the slaughtered corpses into the sacred Well of Zamzam to desecrate it.>Standing atop the Kaaba, Abu Tahir famously shouted insults at the heavens, mocking the idea of divine protection. >They smashed the Kaaba, ripped away its golden gutters, tore down the heavy silk drapes, and wrenched the Black Stone from its corner, carting it away to their stronghold in Bahrain.>Following these acts of destruction, Abu Tahir gathered his followers. He ordered that all copies of the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran that had been captured or found in the territories they overran be brought forward. He commanded his men to heap them into massive piles and set them completely ablaze, reducing the holy scriptures of the world to ash.>As the holy books burned, Abu Tahir delivered his infamous proclamation to his followers, explicitly renouncing the three great monotheistic faiths. He declared:>"Three individuals have utterly deceived and ruined mankind: a shepherd, a healer, and a camel herder. The shepherd was Moses, the healer was Jesus, and the camel herder was Muhammad. They brought people more evil than anyone else."
>>18734584>stinky bad reputation>gets knowledge of a complex religious system from muslim and christcuck bots.
>>18735892>gets knowledge of a complex religious system from muslim and christcuck bots.The reputation isn't about the system, it's about the people. If there was a way to separate Hinduism from Indians, it would unironically become rather popular among Westerners. Wouldn't rival Christianity, though.Also, I did read some books on Hinduism from Indians. Unfortunately, they tend to autistically claim that the out-of-India is true, the Steppe hypothesis is refuted, and Sanskrit is the ancestor of all Indo-European languages.Still, Advaita is a good monistic philosophy.
>>18735872More importantly, Set was the god of foreigners and the Sinai penninsula. His association with Yahweh dates from the Hellenistic period and late antiquity, iirc.
>>18734547This to me creates the thing I think where the realism and the existence and the ontology of the gods becomes important and is where post scholastics ought to engage with things if thinking at this is still alive because the scholastics asked of thinking the realism of ideas which is still important today and also this other idea of gods living through text as a textual literary being or beings and this combined with the thing of forecasting and predicting and predicating from substance and at this time I feel like substance is all fucked up from Christians annoying Dionysius but that there is a way that substance and hylomorphism could get drawn all the way up to Apollo and Dionysius while the Christians have created a division often between nature and god and gods and by doing that created an arche and theology which dominated nature and caused the Christian to get thrown to Capitalism and sell out and corrupt substance with prophecy that is false while substance could get drawn all the way up through entheogens and the chalice the like kykeon? to Apollo and Dionysius and Hermes and this would also allow the idea of transubstantiation to get stolen back from Christian writers which needs get worked on anyways probably at this time if we are being honest here, what is like the eternal return or many of nietzsche’s thoughts which always threatened to slip to lutheranism as compared to the idea of substance which still sits disconsolate in a corner smoking and ready to flip up over a table and birth new ideas of nature or the sort of thing or line of thought and thinking and pondering and cognizing and wool gathering like the shepherds of the plains of Abraham and shadrach Abernathy abednego noesis noema the wine dark sea fleet footed achilles rosy fingered dawn broke through a window and fell on the grass
>>18735921Kykeon (from the Greek word kykaō, meaning "to stir or mix") was an ancient Greek beverage made primarily from a base of water or wine and barley meal, mixed with various herbs, cheese, or honey
>>18735886You should blow your worthless brain out. Make the world a cleaner place, you know?
>>18734547No, what we have are sources from philosophers toughts on their religion. And philosophers across hsitory have a very niche and autistic approach on their faiths that arent shared by the overwelmingly majority. That and the public state rites of the Roman State, a distint religion from the private/family religionWe know not much of the actuall common rites and beliefs of everyday people and of the specific cults, as most of them were notoriusly secretive. Priesthood had their own canonical sources and books, almost all of them lost
>>18735964seethe and drink the camel's urine
>>18735973I'm not "pagan".
>>18735994>he doesn't know
>>18735973seethe and drink the camel's urine, seethe and drink the camel's urinecamelspider.img
>>18734547>Will his gods protect him from the executioner?
>>18735900You arent trying to be a indian though, so having a overly negative generelized view on all the people only through their negative aspects shows you dont really understand or refuse to understand what the faith actually is.Does not matter in the grand scheme of things.
>>187345473d printing busts and painting them yourself is pretty fun. This is my first layer before I start going to town on it with my actually good paints
>>18734902Luckily for you hellenic polytheism isn't some blood and soil bullshit. The Gods are for everyone and worship of the Hellenic pantheon occurred from the furthest west point in Europe all the way to India or even farther if you count Hercules protecting the Buddha
>>18737158The interactions between the Greeks and the far east are some of the most interesting stories in the entire ancient world. Greek art influenced sculpture as far away as Japan 1000+ years before they even knew it existed.
I follow the true gods of my people, we have an unbroken chain of ritual and belief from the very start.
>>18735822Had the Indian/Hindu hate push really been going on that long?Its honestly shocking how lemming like the internet alt right is. >Hate Muslims, ok now hate trannies, now hate Muslims again, how about that Hindu question, tranny Hindu communist thirdworldism!!!They just go off their talking points>>18735851This anon unironically nailed it, the only thing I would add is that some variants really take it way farther than others. One of the more well known examples are the Orphics that were an offshoot of the Dionysian cult. They had a slightly different family tree and really went hard into Dionysian ideas about reincarnation, ritual cleansing and purification and Dionysus as a messiah, future king of the Gods.
>>18737226Agreed I wish we had more records from the eastern parts of the Seleucid and Bactrian empires.
>>18738038I would love to belong to some syncretic Greco-Buddhist temple or something. Seems like the best mix for a Western person. There are some cringy groups that attempt it on Facebook but that's really it.
>>18734547More Nietzschean to vibe code a new interpretation of our ancient faiths.
>>18738074Ive been really enjoying talking to one of my theistic Buddhist friends.She gets very hung up on the broken chain of hellenic thought though
>>18738074What is Greco-Buddhism, really? Besides the iconography and maybe different names? Afaik each time when Buddhism was adopted by some people, it syncretized with their local beliefs. Like, "You worship these gods? Cool, they all are in Samsara. BTW, an important character from your culture has always been a Buddhist. We even have some legends about him, just under a different name."
>>18738224Oh we dont have exactly for this kind of thing but it mixes pretty cleanly with Dionysian focused Hellenic polytheism. A lot of Hellenics believe in a version of samsara and have their own interpretations. I think the Buddhist elements mainly fill in the gaps like Epicurous and Plato but then mainly keep some version of Hellenic cosmology
>>18738238Buddhism and Hellenism could have been connected much stronger than they seem. Some Buddhists certainly lived in Alexandria. And the locals knew about the religion, Clement of Alexandria wrote about "Boutta". Also, Sextus Empericius could have influenced Nagarjuna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhonism#Similarities_between_Pyrrhonism_and_Indian_philosophy). And a funny bit: Buddha is considered a saint in Orthodox Christianity (st. Ioasaph). He also used to be a Catholic saint, but at some point they realized it just was Buddha all along.If you really want to revive some form of Hellenism, Buddhism might be a good start.
>>18738267Ive been trying to set up a discord to get Hellenists talking together for years eith no luck. Id love to someday get enough people together to do public holiday celebrations. The last server i had i shut down for being dead all the time but I would kill for a good place to talk to other pagans
>>18738301Sounds like a nice place. But i'd say it would be better to set up a server about the history of paganism, rather than about the paganism per se. The difference is subtle, but perhaps it could help to filter the neonazis (who mostly just hate Jews) and libleft retards (who want to be pagans because Christianity is le bad and oppresses les women).
>>18738333I think big umbrella paganism is going to be nessesary for a while because most Hellenics are going to be former deists, agnostics, Satanists and wiccans. Im not saying to let them drive the discourse but they are the easiest to bring in.I had to regularly remove neo nazis but it's easy for me morally because blood and soil worship is modern nonsense
>>18738380>blood and soilDepends on what these words imply. Also, it's fine if a person is a neonazi as long as he commits to the discussion and doesn't sperg out.
>>18734547and africa? any written histories?
>>18738484lol
>>18738484Only the North. Egypt, Carthage. At some point, Nubia was influenced by Egyptian culture and built their own pyramids with inscriptions. Also, maybe Ethiopia kinda counts. Muslim merchants lived on the Eastern cost of Africa, but I doubt they were interested in the local paganism. That's about it.
If you're not a Pagan out of a desire for an ethnic religion, why not just stick with the god of the Jews? Abrahamic religions are even more fleshed out and don't feature shape shifting Olympians raping women.
>>18738531Because Prometheus is my creator and Dionysus is our liberator anon please keep up.
>>18738484There's a Tang account on Somalia that goes into some of their pagan practices, but nothing major. Best your going to get is some Berber stuff, if you want "African" and not "Semitic" or "Egyptian".Unless you want to look at things from recent, and not antiquity, that is.
>>18737156Pretty
>>18738531The Western civilization began to prosper after it was reintroduced to the pagan legacy during the Renaissance. So-called Golden Age of Islam was mostly heretics reading pagan legacy. Once they stopped, they went to the oonga-boonga state. If introducing the pagan legacy makes a culture prosper, maybe we should do it again?Paganism is much more tolerant of other theological opinions, which spurs the competition of minds and allow more freedom of opinion. The main way in which Abrahamic faiths have spread is the violence and the enforcement from states, not tolerating the opposition from other religions.Most importantly, the Abrahamic religions claim exclusive rights to the Truth. Yet different sects can't even decide who is right. Think of it, Christians have been arguing about the faith for 20 centuries. 13 centuries ago Muslims started doing the same. If anyone had come up with a truly convincing argument, we wouldn't have a mishmash of different sects. We would have one more or less unified faith, because nobody would be able to refute that argument. And what do we see historically? The number of sects only increases, and again, each of them claims the unique rights to the Truth.
>>18738675>>18738675Thanks I've been trying to make a few as a practical example of what I'm encouraging other people to make. I figured trying to get people to start with a home made shrine hiding in plain sight is a lot easier than trying to hit someone with the "wanna start a cult?" I figured between that and having an open house for holiday events at least gets people open to the idea. I think all museums and the Vatican owe us scans of artifacts so we can make our own. They've been having a reckoning with treating Native American burials and artifacts for decades now I think its time everyone stopped treating Hellenic polytheism as a dead religion. I think most people are solo practitioners/in the pagan closet and I would really like to get more people together for charity and eventsPedestal I made for the bust out of scrap, it's been painted since the but is so unfinished it looks kind of shit right now. I'll post it someday when its 100% done Remember kids Prometheus made us all regardless of race or tribeKeep the blood and soil shit to the crusade larping assholes
>>18738705
>>18734547You have to believe it's real in the first place. Nobody alive today is capable of that.
>>18734557Shinto is LARP even in Japan. They take it less seriously than some foids do the zodiac.
>>18738739Wait how is Zeus, Dionysus and Prometheus more unbelievable than Yahweh, Jesus and all of that?
>>18739007Literally literally more reasonable than the bible
>>18739007Anon you can literally go on vacation to Greece and hike up Mt. Olympus and see with your eyes there is no golden city of the gods up there
>>18739021So I need to take this literally but Christians can just "it's a metaphor/allegory" things?Once again how is it more unbelievable than the Bible?You do realize that many of our legends are the equivalent to your old testament?
>>18739029Everything written in the scriptures is true.
>>18739021Let's see some proof for Eden, and Noah anon>But muh fall of Jericho Yeah we have Troy as an example of an equivalent based in the real world (might even habe been brought down by the same earthquake chain) who was the God of earthquakes again and what was his symbol lmao
>>18739029Top left conquered all the rest btw.
>>18739031Okay anon okay so your serpent in the garden isn't just knock off Prometheus stealing fire and humanity and Prometheus being punished for it?
>>18739033Eden was destroyed by the global flood.
>>18739036Correct. Now you’re getting it.
>>18739037Where's the proof anon? Where is the proof it happened or alternatively isn't just a knock off of the Gilgamesh flood?Noah is knock off Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha
>>18739042Anon that was sarcasmLet's see Jesus knock off Dionysus >son of the storm god and a moral woman (x)>associated with going into the underworld and returning (x)>making wine (x)>"I am the Vine" (x)>end the old afterlife allowing for an escape (x)>one is a carpenter the other is a wine grower (o)>pissed off local authorities leading to their arrest (xxxxxxxxx) pilates interrogation is literally a knock off of the Dionysian part of the Theban cycle and Dionysus being arrested by the local kingFace it anon your religion is a poor copy paste with mild rewriting
>>18739048>tired old mythicist hogwash*yawn*
You should go into my religion, Tolkienism, I believe in the God of the Bible and that european gods were heroes blessed by God and his angels to help and shape the world.Named after JRR Tolkien that wrote about this in his universe that's also our earth back when we knew magic and the spirits of the world.
>>18739033Troy is more historical than Jericho desuGreek Ilion/Ilios <= Hit. WilusaParis is also called Alexander, and according to the Hittite records, a ruler of Wilusa was named Alaksandu.The names of the Greek tribes mentioned in the Iliad are also recorded by Egyptians in the list of the Sea Peoples.The weapons description coincides with the archaeological findings of the Greek Bronze Age.Ancient Greeks dated the Trojan war as the 12th-14th century BC. Eratosthenes even tried to count the precise date of the city's fall (according to him, it happened on April 24, 1184BC). According to the modern scholars, Troy was burnt down in 1190-1180 BC, the city had wartime changes and presumably had been sieged for some time.Meanwhile, the story of Jericho only has one proved detail: the city was destroyed But, for example, the timeline completely mismatches.
>>18739048It seems a certain degree of synkretism between Orphism and Christianity did exist. But Jesus himself was a human preacher whose views were born from the mix of the Second Temple Judaism and the sect of John the Baptist.
>>18735850>Kill yourselves. :DThat's it anon, that's the way to make Jesus proud!
>>18738531>If you're not a Pagan out of a desire for an ethnic religion, why not just stick with the god of the Jews?Because I seek truth in regards to history, and Abrahamic religions provide the opposite of what I seek. Im not Jewish and I don't want to be spiritually Jewish; Abrahamic culture is corny as fuck>Abrahamic religions are even more fleshed outI wouldn't say "more fleshed out" unless you're talking about foreskin removal.Hard pass for me on that one, chief. Pagan religions never demanded genital mutilation of newborns. Some Jewish ancestor made a covenant on some shitty mountain and created the tradition. Its disgusting
>>18739180Agreed about Jesus and John the baptist though. The Gospel of John author may have come from a Dionysian sect before converting though.
>>18734637Even Christianity is nothing but dancing around in retarded costumes. That's what belief is all about. It's literally just LARPing and getting mad when someone breaks the performance.
>>18739251>Even Christianity is nothing but dancing around in retarded costumes.Orthodoxy and Catholicism are not Christianity. You failed, once again, to make basic distinctions, because you have the brain of a rat.
>>18739007that's not the point. actual believers of yahweh exist because there's an uninterrupted chain of believers brainwashed their chidren into it. that's not the case with zeus etc., and has absolutely nothing to do with how believable either of them are.
>>18739253>*waves a mini plastic israeli flag around like a spastic retard while "speaking in tongues"*
>>18739258Nope, not even close. Charismaniacs by and large are not Christian.
>>18739256>actual believers of yahweh exist because there's an uninterrupted chain of believers non-sequitur
>>18739261The costume you wear is that of a hipster. You performatively discard the agora and assert, above all else, an ever elusive (and exclusive) authenticity that can only be defined by an increasingly esoteric narrowing. Of all the costumes you could wear, of all the rituals to perform, you chose devil worship.Brilliant anon. I really don't envy you. When you are made to sit before a council of your greatest ancestors, you will have to justify yourself, and I can't imagine they find your repulsive contrarianism the least bit endearing.
>>18739066not enough incest
