Was the crucifixion of Jesus justified?1. Practiced necromancy to resurrect Lazarus2. Flipped the table of money changer at the temple.3. Claimed to be the Son of God.Honorary mention:4. Helped a prostitute escape legal penalties for practicing adulteryWere the Pharisees in the right to have him be put to death?
>>18736003Jesus's favorite self-designation is Son of Man. It affirms His true, full humanity.
>>18736202Adam means Man in Hebrew. He was saying that he was the Son of Adam, signifying his closeness to the creator.
>>18736003“He practiced necromancy”Necromancy is the use of sorcery to raise a dead thing and reanimate it which means witchcraft. Jesus Christ used miracles and called upon God and was God and is God. His resurrected glorified body after being crucified on the cross despite doing nothing wrong or sinning, was received as an immortal body that could teleport instantly as well as eat and people could feel his hands and feet and stick their finger through his holes in his hands and feet. The money changers in the temple were not worshiping God, they were worshiping mammon, money itself.He is the Son of God and to reject him is to remain in your sins and going to hell when you die.Jesus helped a prostitute quit being a prostitute in spirit. Even if she has accidents later on. She probably didn’t. That’s better than what they would have done by killing her.The Pharisees were sinning against God in killing him, and because Jesus Christ forgave them for their sins, they were given a Christian life despite not deserving one. This means they lived the rest of their lives with the opportunity still open for them to repent and ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness of their sins of murdering him and studying the scriptures to know that they sinned against God’s only Son and was the only way to heaven.Gov gave you a star in the sky over the manger in Bethleham to know He was God’s Only Son being born, the king of the Jews. That star is what Jews blindly worship still today.When God’s Word says murderers and liars will not inherit the kingdom of God or Heaven, it isn’t an excuse or justification just because it is prophetic for evil to commit it. It’s an invitation for people to fear doing such actions of depraved evil because you are being informed and warned of the danger. Just like stop signs or red stop traffic lights say stop. Or a police officer wears a badge and a gun.
I’m pretty sure they crucified him for causing a commotion in the Temple.
>>18736003>Flipped the table of money changer at the temple.I'd bet a penny that you're completely misunderstanding what was going on there
>>18736003>Were the Pharisees in the right to have him be put to death?According to Deuteronomy 13:1-4, yes.
>>18736003It is a fundamental axiom of Christian belief that he was without sin of any kind. So no, when jews murdered Jesus it was not justified.
>>18736966Nope, Jesus Christ worshiped the same God. This applies to worshiping God wrong. Jesus Christ shared the same exact God of the Jews and Adam and Eve. In fact it is the restoration of the Adamic covenant. If you say no, it means you don’t want Man to be saved. You like being banished from the garden of Eden and never to return. And for that, it means the high places also cannot have food or water. You are just globalist scum trying to prevent me and my family from having good and healthy things. You are putting poison into the water and heavy metals in the food.
>>18736957The point of the New Testament was to replace Second Temple Judaism and curb the spread of Jewish nationalism after the Siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of Herod's temple in 70 AD. It subverts every messianic expectation of 1st century Jews in favor of Roman rule: Here's your messiah on a stick, he's not a warrior but brought a sword to divide and conquer you, told you to turn the other cheek to authorities, and to pay your fucking taxes. Ever noticed how the OT constantly emphasizes that you should not eat the flesh from a living animal and drink its blood? Now you'll eat the flesh and drink the blood of our sacrificial lamb, who's the Yom Kippur sacrifice and the new temple that we destroyed all in one. You can point at basically anything in the NT and see it for yourself. When Jesus claims that the random centurion is more pious than anyone he met in Israel he's completely demoralizing the Jews, when Paul says there's neither Jew nor Greek he's obliterating their notion of chosen people, and so on.
>>18736979Indeed, the Trial of Jesus is a parable, a narrative device used to put forward a message and subvert Jewish rituals, namely the Passover and Yom Kippur sacrifices, portraying Jesus as both the Paschal lamb and and one of the two sacrificial goats (Jesus' real function). "Barabbas" just means "Son of the Father". The Romans had no such laws that would have allow Pilate to do what he did in the narrative, and the Jews specifically had legal processes for trials, and the narrative clearly violated them. And according to the Torah the Israelites weren't allowed to eat the flesh torn from a living animal nor drink its blood (Genesis 9:4; Leviticus 17:14), but in the Eucharist they'd eat and drink the body and blood of Jesus, who's typologically a new, living Paschal lamb. Compare the act of sprinkling blood with New Testament verses such as 1 Peter 1:2.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_Temple_serviceBlood was required to appease Yahweh, the tribal god of Israel, and such blood rituals were recreated to formulate Christianity, which is simply a subversion of Second Temple Judaism.Jesus is the sacrifice whose blood is sprinkled on the temple (now the congregation) while Barabbas is the scapegoat who's set free into the wilderness, carrying away the sins of Israel. Pontius Pilate, the representative of the Roman government, washes his hands of Jesus's blood while the Jews curse themselves through it ("His blood be on us and on our children!" Matthew 27:25).By satirizing the holiest day in Judaism the Romans were sharply criticizing the Jews as an impious people who condemned the innocent and released the guilty, by means of which they presented a moral cause of their defeat in the First Jewish–Roman War.
>>18736003He was convicted of blasphemy before the jewish court for claiming to be the son of god and the messiah. If we believe the narrative, then that is a false conviction, because he actually is who he claims to be. The jewish court had no authority though, so they brought him before Pontius Pilot and accused him of a completely different set of charges, including insurrection and claiming to be the king of the jews. He was ultimately convicted for the latter charge. That charge is questionable, since he did never claim to be the king of the jews on Earth (which would be the actual crime, undermining the existing roman vassal kingship).
>>18736974>This applies to worshiping God wrong.Yeah, he was a false prophet and he was put down like a dog for it, as the Torah commands.
>>18736979You’re spouting pure and unbridled blind hate and blasphemy and stubborn and willful hardening to God and His Word. So you already made a choice to go to hell and wage a spiritual war on Christ. With that kind of mentality I feel more sorry for you who are going to hell than Christians and like myself who believed it is against the law to murder.By the way the Romans are just as guilty as the Jews. Gentiles and Jews are together on this because the whole rest of the world were ignorant to the only son of God being crucified while their government and gods did nothing. And there was some gentiles who could have in fact done something, the ones you called upon, the Romans or the Greeks. They could have easily just forced the Jews to shut the hell up and prosecute the Jews propagating this. But they didn’t. Because Satan had actually corrupted the most powerful people with sin. So because everyone (you), let Jesus Christ die on the cross, it boils down to a pure heart and if you accept that Jesus Christ laid down his own life as king of the Jews (he could have not gone through with it and was God and could have not died). But it was more giving and loving to let the Jews commit murder (along with gentiles), because it sends them the forgiveness of sins through a pure heart of remorse. Jesus was therefore placed in the only position God’s Son can be, someone who has done nothing wrong but is also king of the earth and heavens, is to be put to death by a bunch of murderers on earth. It makes sense and is consistent with love. Only a fool doesn’t understand that some things are sacred and you can’t step on everything. Ghenghis Khan didn’t stop it from happening either. Or Napoleon or Hitler. Hitler wouldn’t have wanted to stop it anyway. Neither did Muhammad or the Ottoman Empire.
>>18737013You speak it like you know it’s true. You’re making the only eternal mistake of your soul you can possibly make. I also do suspect you’re as bad as hitler and will go down in history just as bad as all of his best friends in hell with that choice.However I’m not worried because I know I am going to heaven for mine and forgive you for going to hell.
You’re all listening to demon spirits from hell and love demons and serve demons and are possessed of demons/devils. You love devils and you worship other religions because you love Satan and you love devils and you love monsters and supernatural demons and witches and monsters in hell. And I forgive you and still would get mad, call you all a bunch of demons from hell and to burn in hell and say God damn you. Would totally do it again. Just like I said to Steam and Gabe Newel for his monopoly and ruining the human experience for PC gaming. The only person I am accountable to is God, not you anyways. And I am victorious in Christ Jesus in Heaven and sacred. Kthx.
>>18737024You may not like it but the NT is very clear about the Jews being the ones to blame. They lost both militarily and culturally, with Christianity emerging triumphant as the complete hijacking of their religion by the Romans. Here's a few more examples.Deuteronomy 21:23>you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.The crucifixion made Jesus a cursed Messiah ("a curse for us" as Paul says in Galatians 3:13).Deuteronomy 23:2>A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.Mary is unmarried in Mark, the earliest gospel, which refers to Jesus only as "Mary's son" (Mark 6:3) meaning he's a bastard.Ezekiel 44:9>This is what the Sovereign LORD says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.Isaiah 52:1>Awake, awake, Zion, clothe yourself with strength! Put on your garments of splendor, Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.Exodus 12:48-49>A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.Numbers 15:15-16>The community is to have the same rules for you and for the foreigner residing among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the foreigner shall be the same before the Lord: The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the foreigner residing among you.Paul brings uncircumcised gentiles into the assembly.
>>18737029He fulfilled zero messianic prophecies and all his own prophecies failed. He was a liar and a fraud.
>>18737024>>18737053It's even spelled out in John 11:48.>If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.
>>18737053Your post is completely backwards and full of the opposite things happening. Total retard.If anything it paints Romans as doing everything as polite to the Jews as possible, but not polite to someone who didn’t sin.The old covenant was gone so of course Paul brought gentiles to Israel. There was no longer Jew or gentile. However he still noted the Jews were still behaving as enemies.They no longer even have a temple. A demon is there now.
>>18737063>The old covenant was goneIt was "gone" because they LOST, anon. It was supposed to be an EVERLASTING covenant.Genesis 17:9-14>Then God said to Abraham, 'As for you, you must keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is My covenant with you and your descendants after you, which you are to keep: Every male among you must be circumcised. You are to circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and this will be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. He who is eight days old among you must be circumcised, every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring. Both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised. So My covenant will be in your flesh as an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.'"I wonder who pic related benefited.
>>18737056He fulfilled them all actually. I’ve seen you posting this trash on the boards every day, you don’t have anything other than that to say.>>18737061Romans isn’t the demon on the Temple Mount atm. Arab Muslims are because God would rather think of Jews like donkey men and obviously because God still loves Jews even if He disowned them like they disowned Jesus Christ.You shall live by the Word of God, but twisting the Word of God into a lie is apostasy. You are all demons.
>>18737065No, the everlasting covenant was always by Grace through Faith.Grace carries with it a certain appearance of loss.Even the New Testament says God will graft the Jews back in (save them through Jesus Christ, which is fulfilled in their prophecy in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in Revelation). But they are still condemned to be on earth for forsaking their messiah and following God this route to meet the antichrist.
>>18737066>He fulfilled them all actuallyDid he bring world peace? Did he rebuild the temple? Have all Jews been returned to Israel? I think I missed those things happening.
>>18737069>the everlasting covenant was always by Grace through Faith>So My covenant will be in your flesh as an everlasting covenant.
>>187370661 Peter 2:17>Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.
>>18737074Which is also only by Grace through Faith in God. And the reading and hearing of the Word.>>18737080Yes same to you, because you are demons.By the way I have needs and God is the giver of all needs. All you want to do in here is talk about God’s Only Son breaking the law when he didn’t.If God is God then He cares about my wife who promised to marry me , remaining faithful and in faith, and my food and clothing.But I know that you are unfaithful to the Lord Jesus Christ because it is non Christians who are unfaithful. Roman Catholics, Jews, and Muslims all serve and follow the antichrist unfaithfully leaving God and making a lie and living in apostasy in the apostate Temple of demons. If you aren’t taking care of my needs, and you sure as damn well are trying to destroy my needs, and would if you could if God didn’t protect me, I think we can both agree that I don’t have to feel sorry for you for too much longer because I feel more sorry for myself and real christians who believe murder is wrong no matter if it was Jews or Romans , you can’t lie just because you think they are goyim. Evil is evil and God punishes evil no matter what and forgives evil that is in Jesus Christ for sins.
>>18737106>Which is also only by Grace through Faith in GodThat's just Paul pilpuling to convert the goyim. None of that shit is in the Hebrew bible, which says circumcision in the flesh is required to enter God's assembly.
>>18737070Yeah Jesus Christ did these things in faith through christians. Look how nice Americans were to the by sight Jews in Israel. We were so nice we let them walk all over us and Trump and try to assassinate Trump dozens of times by now and make our president all about making Israel Great Again. When the sad truth of the reality is that christians are saying fuck you we were about is being great again not you. We already are great and forgiving of our neighbors. But they are willing to make things happen by force (a fallen route back to Jesus Christ, since they are still God’s people , but Jews still go to hell when they die if they don’t accept the Savior).God hates the World. There will only be peace for the world that submits to peace. Zelensky is going to hell. You would - a natural man cannot discern the spirit.
>>18737116Nope, it never was just New Testament, the whole Old Testament is about how Jews are going to hell when they die without a savior. From start to finish, and that the savior was always Jesus Christ from the very start, and it was always by grace through faith! It was never about following the law. The rich man came to Jesus and asked him, I’ve done everything the law said to do, now what? Why am I not in heaven yet? He said sell all you have and follow me. Of course he wouldn’t do that. He wanted to get to heaven by his own works of the law. It was never about that. You can’t because only God can. You can put up a sign that says only people with green thumbs can enter here. But then I enter with a red finger. I say I’m sorry but here I am. You say well I’m sorry too I’m too afraid to kill you I forgive you. I say ok, thanks, and go get a green thumb for you. But I still have my red one. In another story you say I’m going to kill you for not having a green thumb. So then I say well that is mean, that’s not truly God then if I can’t have a red finger. Since I have a red finger. What if I want a green thumb? So then you say it doesn’t matter, i put you to the death. But then more red fingers shows up. Or what happens if more shows up? What you going to do? What is God says nevermind, now the red fingers are worshiping me and they are doing actually better than green thumbs? Uh oh. Now it doesn’t matter about green thumbs or red fingers. It’s about a relationship. It’s about God giving everyone their needs. It was never about just Abraham by himself it was about Abraham and God and love and that being available to everyone. So God gave Abraham extreme wealth and tons of servants and animals and food and clothing and weapons and things that people read about and thank God for so they can enjoy having it , too and not feel like selling everything they have unless they have pride that what they have is something they worked for.
>>18737119Buddy are you okay I have no idea what any of this means.
>>18737136>Nope, it never was just New Testament, the whole Old Testament is about [proceeds to describe the New Testament]
>>18737056> He fulfilled zero messianic propheciesIf you would ask Christ about that, he would say God alone will accomplish His will in due time. Do you lack faith in God? Do you know it will happen? Why do you identify messiah by who separately achieves it then, if it’s God’s timing alone? Look upstream, not downstream, and see Christ is the revelation of redemptive divine action. Ergo, Christ is the Messiah.
>>18737144Did Justin Martyr know?
>>18737164Know what?
>>18737160>If you would ask Christ about that, he would say God alone will accomplish His will in due time.Sounds like he hasn't done it then.
>>18737172God hasn’t completed history yet. But if He’s completing redemptive history in and through Christ, who is God acting in the flesh, then it’s just to give honour to the Son, who the prophet Daniel said receives religious devotion from all nations even as God gives Him all honour. All the Messiah has to do is reveal that the Father presently acts and reigns and that’s what God incarnate achieved for His people.
>>18737167That Jesus was Caesar.
>>18736942Behold, the man has become as one of Us
>>18737180>from the Rubicon>from the JordanWhat's the river symbolism?
>>18737184Idk maybe something like Achilles unlocking invincibility when he was dipped into the river Styx maybe that immortalized them too
>>18737176What prophecy in the Old Testament says "the Messiah isn't actually going to do anything, he's just going to stop by for a bit"? If that is the case how do you know I'm not the Messiah?
>>18737189Who said the Messiah does nothing? Jesus reveals the Father acting. Where is your corresponding revelation?The point isn’t that messianic deeds don’t matter, it’s that God alone accomplishes redemption, and the Messiah reveals and serves that redemptive act.
>>18737176Daniel said nothing about Jesus.>>18737180Jesus was also Hitler when you think about it.
>>18737194Daniel 7:13–14:Behold, one like a son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days. And to him was given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion.Verse 14 uses the Aramaic root pelach, for the service rendered to this figure, which elsewhere in Daniel describes service to deity.
>>18737198ctrl+f 'Jesus'0 results
>>18737201Ok. A humanlike figure receives universal, everlasting dominion and religiously charged service. But it’s not Jesus. Lol k
>>18737204Might as well be Muhammad when you're that vague.
>>18737205It’s not vague, it’s Trinitarian, and matches Jesus’ exact language of giving honour to the Son as to the Father.
>>18737209>no "trinity" anywhere in the text>not even a Holy Spirit>Trinitarian
>>18737211The term trinitarianism was coined later to distinguish it, the authentic Christianity, from jew worshiping noahide heresies.
>>18737211Are you purposely not reading the part about an human other than God receiving worship of God?
>>18737212But do the people born of the Spirit proceed from God through the Son or just from God?
>>18737214Why didn't Daniel name that human?
>>18737219Why would he?
>>18737227So that people wouldn't confuse him with all the other religious leaders?
>>18737230Christians don’t though. Non-Christians are just blind.
>>18737216No king has claimed the right to rule by virtue of being a descendant of Jesus for a very long time so its a moot point.
>>18737232Well then Jesus gotta find a way to convince those 6 billion or so blind people that Daniel was talking about him if he ever hopes to have dominion over all nations.
>>18737234I'm just asking what kind of trinity is that.
>>18737243There is only one.
>>18737235Apocalypse
>>18737245Soon
>>18737244So Deut. 6:4?
>>18737250That is what I explained.
>>18737254But then it's not a trinity it's a unity.
>>18737255There can be more than one persons without more than one ultimate source
>>18737256More than three?
>>18737257Three Persons need not mean three sources of action.
>>18737262I mean than three persons.
>>18737266All creatures share the same ultimate Source, that doesn’t make them Persons of the Trinity
>>18737268Aren't they one with the source?
>>18737255Your refusal to recognize the truth does not invalidate the truth and your willful blindness is not an argument.
>>18737275The fact that "Son of God" is in the bible but "God the Son" isn't should be enough to recognize the truth.
>>18737270Yes, in the sense that nothing exists or acts independently of God. Do you think that makes you God?
>>18737277If "God the Son" were in the Bible then that would be problematic and contradict the Trinity.
>>18737192Sure sounds like he didn't do any of the things here >>18737070
>>18737278>>18737281In the gospel of John Jesus asks God to make the disciples one with him as he's one with God. Is the trinity still three persons then?
>>18737285unity through participation, not identity
>>18737283God alone does those things.
>>18737302But he hasn't done them?
>>18737296He says complete unity though.
>>18737303Christ is the operator through which the work is still being accomplished. If you are instead waiting for someone else to come today and “do all those things” it would still be God doing it, not the agent. Anyone claiming credit for it would be wrong.
>>18737312So it still hasn't happened. "He didn't fulfill this prophecy because he hasn't gotten around to it" means he hasn't fulfilled the prophecy, which means he's no the Messiah. I know Christians think Messiah just means "a cool guy i like" but it doesn't.
>>18737331Jesus already revealed that God alone accomplishes it. It’s upstream recognition. Waiting for some second claimant to author redemption himself will get you in trouble long term.
>>18737351*Waiting for some second claimant to author redemption himself will lead you away from the revelation that God alone acts.
>>18736003The pharisees did not put Jesus to death. That was the sadducees.
>>18736003He was put to death by Roman law. Those crimes you mentioned are minor, comparing to the fact that he claimed to be fhe King of Judea. And by Roman law - that is a direct treason and the only punishment for that is crucifixion. I'm not even sure if Jews had crucifixion in their law before the Romans arrived.However, there is another good question. Those 2 thieves that were crucified with him - what did they do to deserve a cross? Have they stolen THAT much?
>>18738391>I'm not even sure if Jews had crucifixion in their law before the Romans arrived.The Sanhedrin didn't even have the authority to execute anyone, it would have been entirely the Romans' decision.>Those 2 thieves that were crucified with him - what did they do to deserve a cross? Have they stolen THAT much?Thieves didn't get crucified either. It was pretty much exclusively reserved for treason and sedition.
>>18738407>entirely the Romans' decisionSo, you are telling me that if he told Pontius Pilate that he is a King of Mankind (as was intended to be), the worst that could've happened - he would be viewed as some another lunatic, and he would be put to local asylum at most? But noooo, he's the King of Judea = mutineer against Roman rule, and- knock, knock- who's there?- legionnaires with hammers and nailsWhy he haven't tell them the truth?>Thieves didn't get crucified eitherThen, why 3 crosses on Golgotha are present on most of old paintings? Who were those 2 other guys, then? Because if painters just added them for composition of the picture - that would be a major offense, and church/inqusition would not take such a thing lightly.
