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They only produced descendants on the continent. The Amerindians of the Caribbean (where Columbus set foot) were exterminated (much of Bartolomé de las Casas's claim and Leyenda Negra comes from the Taino genocide) and replaced en masse by Africans. The island of Hispaniola itself, where Columbus made contact with the natives, became the Dominican Republic and Haiti.

>How were their mixed offspring, mestizos treated in society?

These two sons of conquistadores attempted to conspire with the encomenderos to maintain indigenous slave labor and were the reason why mestizos had their rights diminished in New Spain (Mexico/Central America) and the Viceroyalty of Peru:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Martín_Cortés_(son_of_Malinche)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_de_Almagro_II

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>>18736289
Didn't happened
Its a hispanist fanfic. At least not under normal circumstances. Of course, there were instances of marriage to strengthen Spanish rule and their own position. The most well-known case is that of Hernán Cortés with Isabel Moctezuma. Even in these cases, marriage was not the norm.
Interracial concubinage was fostered mainly by the lust of the Spaniards and hardly "romantic," and this promiscuity is supported by the fact that, according to chroniclers indigenous and mestizo women preferred to live with a white man rather than legally marry a man of their own race.

In 1647, Solórzano said this:
>"The most common thing is that they are born from adultery or other illicit and punishable unions, because there are few Spaniards of honor who marry Indian or Black women, which defect of birth makes them infamous, at least by infamy of fact, according to the most serious and common opinion of serious authors, upon them falls the stain of varied color and other vices, which tend to be as if natural and suckled in the milk (...)

most marriages were contracted mainly by Spaniards from the lowest social class there was no romance or love in these unions, they were mainly fueled by concubinage, lust, adultery, and promiscuity.
>How were their mixed offspring, mestizos treated in society?
people of mixed brown ancestry were considered, by virtue of their race, to belong to a lower social class.

It seems the child predator pedo zuca is back. See above who's back. Brazil, with all its laws, couldn't possibly arrest people with such disgusting tastes?

>>18736386
As if those muh religion spammers weren't enough, now we have literal predators here.

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>>18736384
Romantic relationships, regardless of race, are like that. When an invader wins, the first ones to spread their legs are the women.

>>18736374
They were pedophiles.

>In a letter written by Columbus in the year 1500 to a friend named Juana de la Torre, he explicitly detailed the lucrative trade of enslaved children on the islands: "A hundred castellanos are as easily obtained for a woman as for a farm, and it is very general and there are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten [years old] are now in demand, and for all ages a good price must be paid."

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>>18736409
In Brazil, Children's Day is the same as Columbus/Indigenous Peoples' Day, hue.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dia_das_Crianças

>>18736384
Latino here, the woman on the right in your pic is prettier than the one on the left. Also, she would be a better wife by far, loving, knows how to cook, respects his man and lets him have all the authority in the relationship

>>18736374
A subset of the Caribs (the Kalinga) still survive on a reservation in Dominica, some of them seem to be mixed with niggers but there are still some close to purebreds around apparently.
Even Tainos, in eastern cuba there's a few villages with mestizo tainos, and they actually do look very taino. There's gotta be at least a couple of purebreds still around

>>18736463
>Latino here
Are you Italian or from Lazio?
>the woman on the right in your pic is prettier than the one on the left.
it is not

>>18736400
The women never lose. Even when the invader wins and takes over. All the women just line up and get with the new guy in charge. While the local men get screwed over.

Its been happening like this since ancient times. The Europeans themselves are a product of steppe invaders taking over and reproducing with the local women on mass scale.

>>18736384
The Spanish had to marry them though or their families wouldn't be recognized by the crown or the church. Mestizos often were legitimatized by the spanish royal ancestry and Native royal ancestry that was also recognized by the spanish crown.

>>18736494
Latin and Latino are recognized as distinct by historians. Just accept that Latinos is its own distinct term and only relates to latins via Romance Spanish cultural diffusion in the americas.

>>18736469
Natives heritage is very common in modern day Puerto Rico and its also found in cubans and dominicans to a lesser degree. The Natives in carribean were not completely wiped out. Many survived and inter mixed.

>>18736289
They occasionally married native noblewomen for political purposes during the conquest itself, but most mixing took the form of Spaniards amassing a bunch of concubines they didn't particularly care about. The first few years of colonial Mexico City was a degeneracy haven where Conquistadors kept cucking each other and their spanish wives they had brought to the new world by banging one another's native concubines. They were also cucked by the natives occasionally, Cortez himself executed like two local indian men for supposedly sleeping with Malinche

>>18736384
>>18736531
No wonder latinxos invented the cope that their ethnogenesis was some sort of wholesome glorious consensual lovely union between two great civilizations or whatever, imagine having to create a national myth around what was an entirely carnal, adulterous, lust-driven, exploitative ordeal

>>18736544
>what was an entirely carnal, adulterous, lust-driven, exploitative ordeal
As opposed to the rest of the world, where the rights of both men and women were equal and consent was paramount.
Where people only fucked in missionary with the explicit intent of impregnation and did so out of pure love and not because they got horny or drunk, or rapey or whatever.

The real shame is that it generated a continent full of ugly mutts. But the way to get there was no different to how anywhere in Europe, ME, India, China, Japan or 'straya got populated. Bumping uglies with just enough non-animosity that the kids survive long enough to repeat the cycle themselves.

>>18736511
>The Spanish had to marry them though or their families wouldn't be recognized by the crown or the church.
Stop spreading misinformation.
Where did you get that from? It makes no sense at all. On some occasions, marriage with local nobility was considered convenient, no one denies that, but in most other cases, marriage between Spanish authorities and indigenous women was restricted due to the supposed bad inclinations of mestizos and even out of a fear that their descendants would end up being more indigenous than Spanish, compromising their loyalty to the Crown. Neither the Crown nor the Church ever promoted marriage between Indians and Spaniards. There were several restrictions, sometimes imposed by law, on the relationship between Spaniards and indigenous people, which, if strictly enforced, would have considerably reduced the cursed miscegenation.
See what the author Konetzke summarizes:
>Spanish legislation was consistent and maintained, in all its purity and rigor, the fundamental idea of keeping the indigenous population isolated (...) Indians were confined to separate neighborhoods within colonial cities. Many decrees tended to prevent or hinder interaction and contact between Spaniards and Indians. Charles V ordered that no Spaniard, while traveling, remain more than two days in an indigenous village. Spaniards and their servants should not spend the night in the private houses of Indians, if there were inns or taverns.

>>18736560
>>18736511
Also, You guys must stop lying compulsively about this matter. Let's take a closer look at how the crown dealt with this issue.
>Viceroy Don Antonio de Mendoza was instructed to ensure that no one traveled with an indigenous woman, 'so that all bad examples would be avoided'". The same provision was enacted for Peru (...) The separation of the two populations that these provisions aimed at should have made the union of whites with Indians difficult. But the continuous reiterations of the same decrees suggest that their observance was very deficient. The circumstances of colonial life did not correspond to the intentions of the legislator and proved to be stronger than the Laws of the Indies.
Konetzke El mestizaje y su importancia pp. 225-227.

>>18736560
You're the one with misinformation.

The Spanish clearly and often intermixed with the natives. It was so common that the Spanish created elaborate racial classifications for the mestizo populations.

The Spanish also often married Native women officially via the church to legitimatize their families and inheritance for their families. Some of the Spanish were lucky and married native royalty that granted large land holdings. The Crown and church often recognized native royalty in various parts of Mexico and Latin America. The Crown also encouraged Spanish Royals to marry Native Royals to legitimatize their rule and families. This happened often. The Spanish crown took over Latin America easily because they respected most of the Native elites and royals. They recognized their status and let them keep their holdings as long they paid taxes to the crown.

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>>18736544
This is precisely why mestizos who were not children of conquistadores were treated as bastards and had no same rights.

>In the Royal Decree of 1514, the king authorized the legality of mixed marriages to promote evangelization, but Spaniards only married indigenous women from the elite or nobility, although they continued to have illegitimate children with native women and concubines, since, in many cases, they had their legitimate wives in the Iberian Peninsula. In the early days, illegitimacy and miscegenation became practically equivalent categories

>In 1549, Charles I of Spain prohibited mestizos, mulattoes and any illegitimate children from holding any municipal office, public position, or receiving land grants in the Americas

>This purity of blood was an instrument of discrimination that guaranteed the right of legitimate children to inherit their parents' property and to obtain certain public or religious offices

>The intermingling of indigenous women, Spanish men, and enslaved Africans resulted in a racial mix that the Crown had not considered at the beginning of the conquest. The men born from these unions bore the brunt of the harsh realities of the colonial social system. Mestizos (children of a Spanish father and an indigenous mother), while not part of the Repuplic of Indios, were not exempt from paying tribute, but they were able to work in menial trades and as artisans' assistants. They were rejected by both the Criollos and the indigenous population, as both groups considered them "unclean" and therefore excluded from their own society

The rights of mestizos only began to increase during Bourbon rule with the Cédula de Gracias al Sacar (buy whiteness).

>>18736289
Please let me be christopher columbus in my next life if its like this

>>18736544
It's sad, but that's the truth. It's confirmed by all the testimonies from that time, from the beginning of the conquest. Fernández de Oviedo in 1509 has very interesting comments on the subject.
>Although some Christians married high-ranking Indian women, there were many more who under no circumstances would take them in marriage, due to their incapacity and ugliness.

the mestizo Inca Garcilaso states the same:
>There were few in Peru who married indigenous women to legitimize their illegitimate children and secure their inheritance." 1He was living proof of this reality, for although his mother was a princess, his father, the conquistador Sebastián Garcilaso, refused to marry her or to legitimize his illegitimate son. and, despite his understandable criticism of this attitude, he himself later preferred to marry a Spanish woman. It is evident that in this disadvantage we find a racial element, and attempts to argue otherwise by appealing to other factors are cope

>>18736409
>>18736390
>>18736386
So Chinkspammers descended from a rape baby of IJA soldier?

>>18736585
These rules were often not followed on the New World and mestizos born from high ranking Spanish and high ranking Natives were respected highly in society. They were not ostracized at all because they were mixed and they still lived in high status.

Peasant Spanish and Peasant Natives were both living in bad conditions with the peasant Spanish being slightly better off but not really by much. As usual being poor sucks regardless of race.

Also majority of Spanish, including those of Royal lineages often came alone. A single royal spanish man goes to New Spain(Mexico) and often never returned back to spain. He set up his new life in there, and married a native women. Majority of Royals in Mexico are descendants of these people. They are still within the upper classes of modern Mexico.

For those who also believe that the church was a pro-miscegenation force, as Hispanists with temporary stays in Spain claim, I found a very moving account by Friar Bernardino de Manzanedo in 1518.
>It is that many of those who are married to the said female chiefs and who hereafter marry them, are persons of little esteem and standing
>>18736584
Shut up and stop spreading misinformation. you don't have the slightest ability to argue. Loser. Most mixed-race children were illegitimate, especially in the early period when the conquistadors had no fixed settlements or Spanish wives. Military authority allowed them licentious access to these relationships. In Portuguese Spain, the Jesuit superior Nóbrega observed that the colonists considered it "a great disgrace" to marry indigenous women, and asked the Crown to resolve the shortage of European women by sending orphaned girls and even "women of ill repute" (aka prostitutes) to Brazil.

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>>18736585
But this caused fury among the Criollos, the only ones who had rights closer to those of the Spanish until then and who suffered from other limitations imposed by the Bourbon Reforms.

>Under the pretext of combating corruption and patronage networks, the Bourbons began restricting appointments to the Reales Audiencias (courts of justice) and high-ranking administrative posts to peninsulares (Europeans from Spain). Criollos, who had previously been accustomed to purchasing and controlling these offices, found themselves politically powerless in their own land

>The introduction of intendentes, professional officials directly answerable to the Crown who replaced the old alcaldes and corregidores, centralized tax collection and provincial bureaucracy. This dismantled traditional patronage networks and put an end to the lucrative abuses against indigenous populations that had previously been tolerated, deeply angering local elites

>To provide military support for the Empire, the metropole modernized its fiscal system. State monopolies (estancos) were established and strictly enforced for highly profitable, mass-consumption goods such as tobacco, aguardiente (and chicha), salt, and playing cards. Concurrently, the alcabala (sales tax on goods) was raised, placing a financial stranglehold on both large-scale criollo merchants and small producers

>The Free Trade decree of 1778 broke the long-standing monopoly held by the port of Cádiz and permitted trade between multiple Spanish and colonial ports. In practice, however, this measure was not truly liberal; it reaffirmed mercantilist exclusivity by strictly prohibiting local manufacturing and trade with foreign nations. This flooded the Spanish-American market with cheaper European goods, destroying the criollos' nascent textile industries (obrajes)

>>18736557
The difference is that the chinese don't go
>the so-called yuan dynasty was in reality the glorious universal oriental monarchy. the mongols respected and loved their chinese subjects and the great khan encouraged mongol men to marry chinese women and treat them as equals and respect the status of their families, which is why the han men were totally fine with all their women fucking foreigners now, don't worry about it

>>18736603
Konetzke states that in Peru, bastard and mestizo were used synonymously. This is truly sad for Hispanist ideology.
>Increasingly stronger in colonial society was the idea that the honor and consideration of Spaniards depended on marrying a white woman. The higher an individual's social position, the more care was taken that his family could boast of pure Spanish ancestry (...) The Spanish Crown legally sanctioned on several occasions such tendencies, increasingly widespread in colonial society, contrary to Hispano-Indian mixed marriages.
Konetzke, Los mestizos op. cit., p. 125.

Many Hispanists cite the opinion of José Acosta SJ from the 16th century who, despite saying that through education and evangelization the Indians could acquire "good customs" over generations, being an example of almost magical Hispanic egalitarianism, but they ignore that he rejected the possibility of mestizos being ordained as priests lol

Why is the Brazilian pedophile spamming garbage green text all the time? Shut up, prisoner.

>>18736619
Because he has nothing better to do. He hasn't realized that nobody likes his presence and that he was only released from prison because his country lives in the Wild West.

>>18736603
Brazil is an entirely different story. It was a mess over there for centuries. Why even bother talking about them. The Portuguese Empire was inferior to the Spanish Empire in every way.

I am speaking specifically about Spain which had a much more organized empire because the Natives they took over were already highly organized societies with proper cities. When the Spanish got control they already understood the society. They knew about the Native Royals in charge, Artisans, Religious shamans, laborers, etc. It was all set up neatly, so Spanish had alot of success in managing them after conquering them. They also legitimized their rule right away by having Spanish Royals marry Native Royals.

Also you are exaggerating the illegitimate families. The Spanish that chose to stay(which was most) were expected to marry and have proper families. So their Native girlfriend was converted to catholic and married officially in the church. Their is families in Latin America that have been around for almost 500 years.

>>18736614
>>18736603
>>18736592
>>18736560
Wow. It's incredible to think how far an identity crisis can go. They literally created a lie from scratch to satisfy their personal insecurities.

>>18736557
>Schizo pretending that Latinas are ugly

A Hot Latina mami would walk all over your lame ass.

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>>18736607
>The enforcement of the Pragmatic Sanction banished the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) from all Spanish territories. The Jesuits were the principal educators of Creole youth and managed the most profitable estates and properties in the Americas. Their lands were confiscated by the Junta de Temporalidades and auctioned off, creating an immense spiritual and cultural void, in addition to severing close financial ties with local elites

>"Pardocracia" is a term used primarily in Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, and Gran Colombia during the 18th and 19th centuries to refer to a potential government led by the pardo caste, which would displace the white criollos. The expression arose from the white elite's fear regarding events stemming from slave rebellions and the independence of Haiti, many of these whites defined the pardos as a "dangerous class."

>Between 1790 and 1830, ideals of equality and liberty, stemming from the French Revolution and events in Haiti, spread among the population of color in the Caribbean, and many sought to act in accordance with these values. They endeavored to promote struggles for political change, thereby heightening the white elite's fear of a race war and of being ousted from political power by Blacks and mestizos. The Criollo elite characterized the population of color's desire for change as the establishment of a pardocracia, in parts of Latin America, the term pardo referred to individuals of mixed ancestry, specifically the mixing of Indigenous, black, and white populations, as well as their descendants

>The Venezuelan military leader and politician Simón Bolívar was among the leaders who expressed the greatest fear of a pardocracia, in some of his correspondence, he voiced fear and contempt regarding the population of color, dreading that the pardos would rebel against the Criollos and displace them from power

>>18736631
>Just spamming excerpts with no historical analysis

Yea man you're for sure smart. Im sure this is all true cuz some guy said so a long time ago. Yep the Spanish never exaggerated or lied in their records...

Yep just keep spamming your bullshit

>>18736642
He's a pedo. Ignore him.

>>18736624
>Brazil is an entirely different story
You've been refuted in every post, do you want to continue? And no, it's not restricted to Brazil. You have no sources, no citations, nothing. Not even AI will save you now. To begin with, whether you like it or not, it's well known, as I've mentioned several times, that the law actively discouraged miscegenation. Period. Your story that this is how they were "considered by the law" because of these marriages is false. You are consciously ignoring the restrictions on mixed-race people. Besides, there is in fact a cause of inequality in relation to those mixed-race people who had some trace of mixed race or bastardy, which included a large part of them, whether you like it or not. In the 16th century, marriage between encomenderos and indigenous women was prohibited in Peru. The argument that "mestizos generally do not have good inclinations and that they are such that few good things can be expected from them" was a constant.
You're ignoring everything that's been presented here. But I'll summarize it so you'll shut up once and for all.
Spanish legislation attempted to maintain *total segregation* between Spaniards and indigenous people:

- Indians were confined to separate neighborhoods.
- Decrees prohibited coexistence: Spaniards could not stay more than 2 days in villages, nor sleep in Indian houses if there was an inn.
- Encomenderos were forbidden to live in the villages of their encomienda and to keep indigenous women from their repartimiento in their house.
- Viceroy Mendoza was instructed to prohibit anyone from traveling with an indigenous woman, "so that all bad examples would be avoided" - a rule that was also applied in Peru.

The idea was to make union between whites and Indians difficult.

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>>18736631
>In an 1825 letter to General Francisco de Paula Santander, Bolívar, known as "The Liberator", expressed his fear of a pardocracia:

>"Legal equality is not enough, given the spirit of the people, who desire absolute equality in both the public and domestic spheres; and later they will desire Pardocracia, their sole and natural inclination, leading ultimately to the extermination of the privileged class."

>In another letter from Bolívar to General Santander in 1826, he reiterates his fear of pardocracia and criticizes those whites who are more open to including the population of color in positions of power:

>"They fear the English, yet seek to ally themselves with them, and do not fear a revolution of colors, because the people are very submissive […] My sister tells me that in Caracas there are three factions: monarchists, democrats, and pardócratas […] demagogues (allies of Páez) are suggesting Napoleonic ideas […] those gentlemen were first federalists, then constitutionalists, and are now Napoleonists; thus, the only remaining rank for them to attain is that of anarchists, pardócratas, or cutthroats."

>From the 17th century onwards, the term pardo was used in various Latin American countries to refer to individuals of mixed-race heritage, encompassing mulatos, mestizos, zambos, and others. This caste was considered inferior and was excluded from public office and military service by the Spanish, however, over the years, they gradually gained more rights

>As a result of racial mixing, the pardo caste grew to constitute the majority of the population in some regions. Some pardos managed to attain a certain level of power, and thanks to the Bourbon Real Cédula de Gracias al Sacar (Royal Decree of Graces for Exemption) of 1795, they could, upon payment of a fee, access the same rights as whites, a development that met with resistance from the mantuanos (gran-colombian criollo elite)

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>>18736654
>Following independence and the dissolution of the caste system, the terms pardos and pardocracia fell into disuse, yet the ruling elite remained fearful of the non-white masses. Prior to the abolition of slavery in Venezuela in 1854, slave and free Black uprisings were frequent; in Caracas, some free pardos encouraged the population to support abolition and to kill white people

>The political and social climate of the era culminated in the Federal War of 1859; prior to the conflict, the majority of the non-white population lived in poverty, and many joined local strongmen (caudillos) who engaged in theft and looting. The Federal War took on racial overtones; one of the slogans adopted by the popular masses was "death to the whites," while the conservative faction viewed the Federalists as agents of barbarism intent on destroying civilization

>Although a period of racial peace ensued after the Federal War, many intellectuals and politicians influenced by positivism, such as Lisandro Alvarado, José Gil Fortoul, Laureano Vallenilla Lanz, Rufino Blanco Fombona, Arturo Uslar Pietri, and others, continued to regard the non-white population as a national problem. These intellectuals advocated for a project of racial whitening through mass European immigration, aiming to reduce the size of the non-white population in the belief that this would modernize the state

Source:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardocracia#Referencias

>>18736645
Why do you assume what is written is 100% accurate? Do you ever apply any academic rigor to your thinking? You lack analysis and take everything at face value. It must be so easy to trick you lol.

The Spanish are notorious for lying and exaggerating in their historical records. Same for the Portuguese. The spanish in the new world were not as obedient as you think. People often disobeyed and did what they wanted.

>Inter racial relationships were common and widely accepted. The church was apprehensive at first but that quickly stopped in a short matter of time. Their were so many spanish mixing with natives that the church had to accept the relationships as legitimate and recognized their unions. The catholic church had a large number of natives converted and married within the span of decades not centuries. Many relationships were interracial.

Also you randomly jump around to different regions of latin america to try to bolster your points but it just ends up contradicting you since you lack academic rigor to connect it properly.

Think before you write.

Spanish laws condemned concubinag with indigenous women, which was the primary impetus for these unions. But they were ignored by almost everyone, which caused the mestizo population to explode. According to Konetzke, if the metropolis had rigorously applied its laws, the demographic history of America would have been different. You have difficulty understanding how the true state policy was freedom of marriage, BUT what determined miscegenation, or its absence, was custom. Aka what the Spanish freely chose to do. Regarding custom or social attitude, even in the initial stages we find marked resistance to marriage between Spaniards.

As Konetzke clearly shows, there was a clear resistance from whites in the New World to marriage with indigenous women, to the point that the legal marriage of a white man to an indigenous woman was considered socially degrading. Although the laws "permitted" mixed marriages, they did not encourage them. Quite the contrary, and repugnance towards this union prevailed among whites. Mörner follows the same line and states that it is evident that the Spanish preferred to marry Spanish women and that there is no doubt that most of the miscegenation during the Conquest resulted from casual relationships and concubinage. It is backward to consider these relationships with indigenous women as proof of the absence of prejudice on the part of the conquerors. You lost. And I'm not going to lose my day reading your crap. You have no sources

>>18736664
>uses wiki sources
>focuses on pardos and africans
>while the conversation was clearly centered on spanish and natives.

you iz so smartt mann I wish I could think like u

>ey ese the spanish emperio was a mutiracial paradise gringo! la monarquia spanish and the papa wanted everybody to racemix!
>actually no, racemixing and racemixed people were by all accounts looked down upon by high spanish.
>NO PENDEJO THEY WERE JUS LYING O ALGO! OK LOS RICOS MIGHT HAVE BEEN RACISTAS BUT THE COMMON PEOPLE LOVED LAS MORENAS ESE!
So this is the power of mexocope...

>>18736676
>Still posting your pol tier garbage.

As soon as he started obsessing over black people I knew he was a /pol/ retard. Yea for sure mang, da white people hated natives and preferred the white womenz only. All these hundreds of millions of Latinos with significant european heritage came out of nowhere. For sure there all bastards blah blah, lets ignore those royal catholic church records cuz cursive is hard to read for my backwater intellect.

You can leave now retard.

To further humiliate the idiot who lacked the mental capacity to respond and simply said:
>It's false because it's false.
>Actually, it's not true because they lied, okay? Don't ask me how I know this.
>my fantasies and lies without historical basis are more truthful than those of specific authors or primary sources, okay?

You really are a worm, lol. Obliterated.
Well, I'm not going to read your posts or reply to you. Don't you dare reply to me again. By the way, for anyone curious, aside from that idiot above or the Brazilian with a brain tumor flooding the thread, most marriages in the early years were with indigenous women, and even these were mainly contracted by lower-class Spaniards. The fact that only lower-class Spaniards considered marrying indigenous women from the upper class says a lot about the hierarchy among them, even though it may not seem so.
The fact that only lower-class Spaniards considered marrying higher-class indigenous women says a great deal about the hierarchy among them, even though it may not seem so. Fernández de Oviedo reported how indigenous concubines tried to "lighten their skin" in the hope that the Spaniards would want to marry them, given their disadvantage compared to the European women who arrived on the island. This prejudice against marriage with indigenous women did not diminish over time; in fact, it intensified as the mixed-race class, despised for being illegitimate, grew. The mixed-race people were so desperate for social advancement that some even tried to falsify documents. The close link between miscegenation and bastardy also stems from the fact that there was often a more lenient attitude towards legitimate mixed-race and mulatto people, as Solórzano points out elsewhere.

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>>18736698
>The mixed-race people were so desperate for social advancement that some even tried to falsify documents.
So, this petty behavior of neo-Latinos has a genetic basis? Who would have thought, huh Tell me more about the falsifications

Hispanics be like
>no ese it's los anglos fault that el racismo exists! had it not been for those putos piratas i could be chilling with my spanish hermanos in the glorious universal monarchia catholica! i wish i could marry my hermana to a spanol so bad....

>>18736698
>hes still nitpicking history to further intellectually masturbate his retarded racial superiority complex that nobody else cares about

For sure man the white man was so powerful in the new world. Yep as soon as Spanish won with their 500 soliders against the aztecs(I bet this retard believes the spaniard that said this) They for sure were running shit in the new world. Lets ignore the facts that the most high ranking spaniard immediately married a native princesses to legitimatize his power. Yep lets skip over that. It only happened like once I bet so its okay bro white man still on top. House of Monteczuma? nah it aint real. Those other native royal families? gone for sure i bet right?

Oh wait I think some more royals married natives but they were like lower royal spanish families so its okay. And yea man they married higher ranking native royals. yep makes sense... the spanish often let lower ranking weak royals marry higher ranking native royals with massive assets. So that those weaker spanish rotals could outpower them later.

Its funny how easily this pol chud takes everything at face value lmao.

i would totally legitimize my bastard son i had with my tlaxcalan maid but uhhhh the freemasonic criollos at the audiencias threw my petition in the trash o algo

>>18736728
>he doesn't know

lol you really don't know history. Well all you rely on is wikipedia so its to be expected. Thats usually as far as pol retards go.

Tlaxcala had a high status under the spanish crown. Im sure they were all maids and bastards tho right?

This pol chud is retarded lol

>>18736734
uh oh incoming latinx melty

>>18736735
go learn history properly dummy. The spanish crown gave them massive grants after the aztecs lost.

>>18736706
With pleasure. As I said before, interracial concubinage was mainly fostered by illicit relationships and the lust of the Spanish, but the caste system also, in a way, favored concubinage. This is because indigenous and mestizo women preferred to live with a white man rather than legally marry a man of their own race. Miscegenation had a strong disproportionate effect to the detriment of indigenous men and to the benefit of the Spanish, a fact that is notorious and confirmed today by all genetic studies.Things reached a point where everyone clung as much as possible to their Spanish ancestry, and each generation sought to ascend the social hierarchy. Ulloa is very enlightening about this mentality of the middle classes.

The obsession with getting closer to whiteness what they called "salir del armario" [coming out of the closet] — and the legal privileges of whites generated a constant practice of caste falsification called social ascent. The attempt was almost always to climb one rung: from Black to mulatto, from Indian to mestizo, and from mulatto/mestizo to Spaniard. It was not easy, but the lack of proof of ancestry for bastards, the precarious records, forgeries, and the impossibility of defining ethnicity by phenotype alone meant that it sometimes succeeded.

Once legal recognition was obtained, that fraudulent status was passed on to the next generation often with the help of emigration to another place to evade the law. In some cases phenotype made the attempt ridiculous, but many mestizos and mulattos managed to pass as Spaniards, especially with bribery and favors.

As Ulloa noted, the latter
>would not be easy to distinguish in Spain, unless one took great care and was accustomed to distinguishing these mixtures of Spanish and American blood."

>>18736718
I m not reading. You already lost.

>>18736651
And what about Mexico? How was the situation there? One of the most densely populated places in the Empire

Latino here, again, and I don't care your stupid fight between Hispanics and their love of Spain vs whites. The biggest thing is that nobody, absolutely nobody, can disprove the following
>Latina, especially the Brown Indigenous looking women of Latin America, are extremely beautiful and loving and respect their husband and let them be the authority of the family completely
That's it, that's the thing that has non Hispanic whites always seething non stop. Hispanic women are literal Goddesses of beauty, love, motherhood and put their husbands above all.

No matter how much you mock us Latinos, not a single white woman will treat you with as much love and respect as an "India fea" will treat you

>>18736743
>categorically wrong
>assumes everything at face value for famously biased documents
>thinks the crown had absolute rule in new world even though it was common for spaniards and natives to disobey

Even the fucken priest ignored the crown lol. The new world had its own governance essentially and just paid tribute to be left alone.

Keep believing your bullshit if you want tho wikipedia scholar. Your autism impresses us all

>>18736746
I'd believe that if your soap operas weren't filled with the whitest looking latinxes possible

The "high status" enjoyed by native nobility under the Spanish Crown, ladies & gentlemen
>Alonso de Zorita, a judge from the Audiencia of Mexico, travelled through Guatemala in 1555. While there, he visited Santa Cruz del Quiché and inquired of the native rulers concerning their government. He was amazed to find that those who were at one time “lords of Utatlan” were:
>"as poor and miserable as the poorest Indian of the town, and their wives fixed the tortillas for dinner because they had no servants, nor any means of supporting them; they themselves carried fuel and water for their houses. The principal lord was named Don Juan de Rojas, the second, Don Juan Cortés.... They were all extremely poor; they left sons who were all penniless, miserable tribute-payers, for the Spaniards do not exempt any Indians from payment of tribute." (Zorita 1963, 272)

>>18736745
Given the presence of imbeciles here whose only argument is to bark incessantly that it's "false amigo mio", mockery and ad hominem attacks, I would like to say that although mixed-race people tried to falsify their social position, all this does not mean that the law was discarded or generally ignored. No, or that anyone with more or less light skin could declare themselves Spanish at will. The quality of being white was not in Spanish America an unofficial popular notion or a malleable phenotypic assessment, as it became after secession in modern "pigmentocratic" republics.
>>18736745
>mexico
Mörner shows that ecclesiastical records from Mexico and Guatemala prove that, when interracial marriage occurred, it almost always happened between closely related groups – such as castizo with Spaniard or mestizo with mulatto. The funniest part is that endogamy had institutional reinforcement. Already in the 18th century, we see seminaries requiring that admitted students be
>legitimate children of legitimate marriage, clean and of pure blood, without Moorish or Jewish ancestry, nor penitents of the Holy Office, nor recent converts to the faith, nor mestizos or mulattoes

Similarly, a bull of Clement XII in 1739 prohibited the admission of mestizos and mulattoes into the Order of Saint Augustine of Mexico because they were >individuals generally despised by society, unworthy of occupying public posts and of being in charge of the direction of souls.
(The segregation even extended to hospitals.)
in Mexico, the initial outbreak of independence was largely led by the racial castes, while in Peru, whites and indigenous people generally aligned themselves with the monarchy.
Konetzke cites a report from Mexico from 1771 that states that
>despite the absolute absence of marriages between Spanish and Indians, the mixed race is growing every day as a product of occasional and illicit relationships between both races , p. 183.

>>18736766
Have you considered the possibility that Clement XII was working for the Freemasons o algo

>humiliated by chinkspammer
>now humiliated by the brazilinonce
panchito hispanistas having a rough one I see

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>>18736409
Kekazo.

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>>18736749
I think he mogged you so hard that you're crying about racism, dumb latinx you were the only one who hasn't shown shit so far and you're saying primary sources are fake and your delusion is true, you will never be an Iberian and if you lived at that time you would be treated like a dog, how do you feel, senior?

>>18736739
He never replies to anyone that beats him or he just keeps spamming more bulllshit

>>18736771
I'm not Brazilian, don't confuse me with that sick creature.
>>18736773
He served as my punching bag. That's all, but it's always good sometimes to inflate your own ego by humiliating someone so much that they become speechless and just say that sources are false because... they are false.

>>18736773
>crying about racism?

what? Never even mentioned that at all. Do you even know how to read retard?

>>18736777
You didn't win shit lmao

You spam post and when you get countered you just ignore the post and keep spamming more shit. Why even bother citing sources when you will just ignore them.

>>18736773
>>18736777

same fag

>>18736772
>that pic
kek it do be like that

>So, like
the Spanish were white supremacists and anti-miscegenation, and if it weren't for their uncontrolled libido, the Americas today might be Iberian territory.
>le Anglo-racist senior antagonism was totally decimated

Kek Holy shit the Hispanidad are in a state of suicide observation now. It's over. We wuz Iberianz n shiet seenioor

>>18736766
Thanks for the post. I think it went beyond what I asked
>The segregation even extended to hospitals
What did you mean by that?

>>18736745
Essentially the spanish were outnumbered heavily so they relied on natives that neighbored the aztecs to help legitimize their power. The neighboring groups of the aztecs hated them. So they easily agreed to work with the spanish. After they won, the natives got rewarded. In exchange they got royal titles that legitimatized their native royalty in spanish courts and got grants guaranteed by the spanish crown. The aztecs also got the same treatment later on. They got to keep some of their holdings.
The spanish that stayed in latin america basically intermarried with Natives of high social status. Lower ranked royals married natives of lower royal caste.

Nobody in native royalty was upgrading royalty. The same can be said for the spanish. It was just a conversion to the spanish system with most getting to keep their stuff. The Spanish knew if they did not recognize the native royalty they would get revolts.

The retard will obviously ignore this and pretend that 500 white guys with magic swords beat everyone and got to be super duper royals lol.

>>18736787
This meant that racial segregation was so extreme that it reached the hospitals—many mestizos died like dogs until hospitals specifically for them were created. Furthermore, in 1568 Philip II responded to a petition from the Audiencia of Mexico ordering that the fact be resolved that
>mulattos have no hospital where they can go to be cured of their illnesses, because those in the aforementioned city refused to admit them, and thus they often died without being cured or receiving the sacraments
R.C. a la audiencia de México sobre los mulatos de la nueva España», 1568, p. 435.

I would also like to talk about how, in the 18th century, the Viceroy of Peru requested a subsidy for the hospital for freed blacks in Lima, lamentably portraying the suffering of non-Spaniards. It surprises me that retarded leftists don't use this to complain about colonization yet.

>Before its foundation, having no masters to care for them and help them, nor a place where they could take shelter when they fell ill with any ailment, their ordinary recourse was the dungheaps, where, overcome by illness and old age, they would let themselves fall and die without any assistance, with the pity reaching such an extreme that many of them, still alive and without breath or strength to defend themselves, were seen being torn apart by dogs and birds (...) [they are] by their nature so barbaric and so filthy that however abundant Christian charity may be, there would be few who would bring themselves to exercise it by taking them in and curing them if they did not have this recourse in their hospital (...) Nor would it be practicable for them to be received in other hospitals (...) one is that of San Andrés, whose institute includes only Spaniards and no other castes (...) that of Santa Ana, founded only for Indians

why does this schizo keep replying to himself lol

>>18736384
But what about the issue of the souls of the indigenous people? Wasn't that a prevailing notion, dogma, or something like that?

>>18736793
see >>18736761

>>18736797
I don't think I understood your post. What exactly are you asking about? Are we talking about the church at the time, or whether the indigenous people were considered to have souls? The latter doesn't prevent segregation and disagreements in any way. be more coherent.

>>18736799
He was talking about Mexican Natives. Which did get to maintain their status and alot of their holdings. Even the aztecs that lost got to keep alot of their stuff and royal status. Some native societies in new spain even cut deals were they lost nothing. Just had to pay their taxes and convert to catholic.

The fact that you are bringing up Guatemalans Natives shows you know nothing about new world history...

Even before the Spanish got there, those natives in the Guatemalan region were weak. They were not real royals anymore and lived in weak villages that got punked by the natives further north.

This is what wikipedia knowledge gets you. Learn more dummy. Your shitty bias posts and sources are often lies or exaggerated.

>>18736802
I'm talking about how the Jesuits and missionaries made efforts on behalf of the Church to assimilate and convert them because they had souls and natural virtues this was in high demand by the Church and you didn't touch on this subject much.

>>18736797
The church had immense influence at the time in Europe, especially Spain. That extended to the new world as well. The friars treated the natives well if they converted and segregation did not happen in the way that /pol/ chud keeps saying.

How are you going to segregate when majority of the population was native there lmao. Thats how stupid this retard is.

yea mang like I was saying as soon as the white man got over there in Mexico he like segregated them indians man.

The whites were a fraction of a percent of the mexican population but I promise the natives got segregated bro lmao.

>>18736809
The natives of the Guatemalan Highlands lived in large towns and fortresses with stone architecture and absolutely did have "real royals", with the ones in that quote being the K'iche, the most foremost local power before and during the conquest

Evidently you don't know what you're talking about yourself

>Your shitty bias posts and sources are often lies or exaggerated
Ok but why would a random spanish judge lie about the local indian "king" being piss poor

Let me tell you about these Guatemalans that the spanish beat man. Bro the whitw guys beat them so bad the Guatemalan royals there had to flip their own tortillas. hahaha

Pol chud doesn't even realize that Guatemala was dirt broke before the spanish even got there hahaha. This nigga don't know what he's talking about haha

senooooorrr we wuz harmonious race blind society before dem evil anglo piratas masonos turned los spanoles into racistas senooorrrr

>>18736824
The guatemalans lived in far inferior societies when compared to Natives of Mexico region.
>They were weaker
>Had far less wealth
>Had far less resources
>regurlarly got punked by their mexican neighbors
>got punked again by mexican neighbors and spanish

The Mayan empire was long gone from guatemala by the time spanish were there.

>>18736813
>to assimilate and convert them because they had souls and natural virtues
Yes, but that's a common mistake that many people make. Catholic religion never achieved full union during the Empire, because evangelization was never completed in all indigenous populations. In fact, for a long time it was quite limited.

The missions never ceased, yes, and as late as 1741 Father Gumilla presented in his "Orinoco ilustrado" evangelization as an effort still pending completion in Colombia and Venezuela. But remember that the last Maya cities fell in 1697 — could paganism have been uprooted in just 111 short years? Hardly. The independent Republics themselves needed decades to control all their territory. Even today paganism survives in interior zones of America.

Assimilation was limited, Spanish America also encompassed territories that were difficult to control, with which there was almost no social integration and sometimes not even religious integration. The distance of the Spaniards from such Indians was greater than any law could overcome. For the average Indian, his way of life did not change very drastically in many places. One cannot speak in such cases of a "Hispanic ethos" that universally encompassed criollos, mestizos and Indians. That is fantasy. This is well illustrated when considering a decision issued by the Council of the Indies regarding the children of caciques receiving an education in Spain, which recommended against this, stating the following:

>>18736829
>>They were weaker
>>regurlarly got punked by their mexican neighbors
There is no record of mexican military action in the guatemalan highlands in pre-columbian times
>>Had far less wealth
>>Had far less resources
Very wrong, they were quite wealthy due to the fact the region was where all quetzal feathers and jade in Mesoamerica came from, as well as most obsidian sources outside central Mexico
>The Mayan empire was long gone from guatemala by the time spanish were there.
There was never ever such a thing as "The Mayan Empire" and the fact you think it did automatically invalidates any opinion you may have on the topic

>>18736824
The Spanish didn't think much of central americans. The royalty there was not respected because it was just shitty villages with some local leaders. They were nothing special. The spanish saw them as inferior to Natives of Mexico.

The Royal Natives of Mexico region were different. They ruled vast numbers of people. The spanish knew to respect their status and converted them quickly to the spanish royal court. This happened alot. Those families still exist to this day in Mexico. They are still rich and powerful too.

I know you want to have this fantasy of these white guys kicking ass and just enslaving all these natives easily but it did not happen that way. The Spanish struggled alot and relied heavily on Native help. They rewarded them after for it too.

>>18736835
The highlands natives in central america were isolated for a reason...They were fleeing the mexican natives which had power over them and destroyed their previous settlements.

Stop hyping up Guatemalans you fool lol

>>18736835
The mexican natives regularly enslaved the central americans and forced them ti pay tribute. They were not wealthy and they liver isolated in fear of their neighbors from the north.

>>18736832
Another thing It is also unreasonable to assume that the social reality of the indigenous people was practically equivalent to that of the Spanish. Firstly, the laws were often not enforced, which forced the Crown to make constant efforts to impose its provisions, and again, they were frequently ignored. Furthermore, a large part of the indigenous population lived until the end of the Empire in essentially autonomous parallel societies—their own Republic of the Indians—without ever fully integrating into Spanish urban culture.

Precisely because of the "protection," and the freedom and autonomy granted to the indigenous peoples, when the secessions came, the indigenous people were essentially different from the Spanish in their idiosyncrasies. This is evident in Ulloa's testimony in the 18th century, who despaired at the possibility of civilizing them
>Just as they have not changed their language, customs, propensities or habits, it is not reasonable that they should change their character, especially when it is seen that, after so many years of the conquest, they have not adopted those of the dominant nation."
Ullo pp. 257-258

Konetzke on the Bishop of Michoacán:
>at the end of the colonial era, the bishop of Valladolid in New Spain held the exaggerated, but not entirely unfounded, opinion that the prohibition of Spaniards and other castes living in the Indian towns isolated them almost completely and separated them from the active commerce of society, concentrating them in their ignorance and in their traditions, as well as in their gentile uses and customs.

>>18736845
They were not and couldn't have been isolated, since, like i said, the highlands of Guatemala was the region from which two of the most important luxury goods in Mesoamerican society came from. It was also pretty much the first region within Mesoamerica outside the Olmec Heartland to develop civilization. You seem to think they were equivalent to the natives of Costa Rica or something when that was very much not the case lol
But then again, it's to be expected from somebody who still thinks there was ever a "Mayan Empire"

>>18736849
>The mexican natives regularly enslaved the central americans and forced them ti pay tribute.
Big claim there, especially considering one of the most detailed abd important pieces of Mesoamerican writing, the Popol Vuh, comes from there, and it at no point mentions a conquest from Central Mexico, only trade and diplomacy lol

>>18736827
Our answer?

Someone here got mogged lol

>>18736827
This isn't the worst part. my personal punching bag is arguing with another guy about a subject I don't even care about, and he thinks it's me. That's called Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. The guy got beaten up so badly that he thinks everyone is me now.

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>>18736778
Cry more juanito.
Your insecurity has become even more apparent, lol.