I understand the origins of the Slavic and Ottoman admixture, but why does everybody have so much Roman-era Anatolian ancestry?
>>18736926To inflate the slavic component in this shit model
>>18736931They keep inflating it when croats used to be no more than half and serbs being majority paleobalkan to hide the sex bias
>>18736931Why is it a shit model, post a good one then.
>>18737015It is a shit model because it does not take into account the autosomal dnaLurk moar
were anatolia and the levant the most densely populated areas back in imperial rome or something? it seems as though everybody was 25% oriental by 500 ad
>>18737320I think the top three ranked by population were Italia, Egypt, and Anatolia
>>18737320Roman-era Anatolians are a mix of Greeks, Anatolians and a little bit of Levantine.
Why do "greeks" expect everyone else to suck their dicks for "inventing" western civilization when they are about as ancient greek as a north macedonian is ancient macedonian.Byron and all the other hellenophile clowns really did a number on europe with this bullshit lol
>>18736926This infograph is bullshit. While its true that most mainland greeks have a ton of slavic/albanian DNA (despite themselves denying it) aegean isles greeks have much stronger ancient greeks genetics, mixed with anatolians
>>18737676The hellenistic wewuzzery started long before Byron. It was started by 15th Century byzantine refugees in Italy that were so ashamed of the collapse and failure of the byzantine civilization that started to wewuz as classical greeks to prove Byzantium was actually a degenerate descendant of it and the true greatness of greeks was to be found on the ancients they wished to emulate. They LARP also included abandoning their byzantine-era names to adopt new pseudo-ancient greek names (Pic related went from "Georgios" to call himself "Plethon")They then educated the Italians with this cope and later Italians spread this cope in the rest of Western Europe and took strong roots
>>18737676A more fitting example would be comparing modern Greeks with modern Egyptians. Even though modern Greeks have relatively little in common with their ancient counterparts, they still share some heritage, such as living in the same region, speaking a language derived from Ancient Greek, and retaining certain cultural and genetic continuities.North Macedonia, on the other hand, is a literal LARP nation, composed of Slavs who have no genetic, cultural, or linguistic connection to ancient Macedonians, nor does it even share their historical borders.Imagine if a bunch of WASPs settled in New Mexico, renamed it Tenochtitlan, and started LARPing as Aztecs while speaking English and practising Baptist Christianity.
>>18737723Macedonians like all bulgarians have a larger paleo-balkan genetic heritage than modern greeks. So yes they ARE more closely related to ancient macedonias (another heavy paleo-balkan people) than modern greeks, albeit neither of them are direct descendants of the true macedonians
>>18737566Only West Anatolians had any real Greek ancestry, anyone further inland had near 0
>>18737723Isn't that just Mormons?
>>18737749Least delusional Turd. Anatolians were proto-Greeks.Target: Turkey_Roman_5Distance: 1.5687% / 0.0156872345.2 Greece_BA_Mycenaean31.2 Turkey_MBA23.6 Turkey_Arslantepe_EBATarget: Turkey_Roman_4Distance: 2.5987% / 0.0259873047.8 Greece_BA_Mycenaean26.2 Turkey_EBA18.4 Turkey_Alalakh_MLBA7.6 Turkey_Arslantepe_EBATarget: Turkey_Roman_2Distance: 3.5489% / 0.0354889246.0 Greece_BA_Mycenaean26.4 Turkey_Arslantepe_EBA21.4 Turkey_MBA6.2 Turkey_Alalakh_MLBATarget: Turkey_Roman_1Distance: 19.2074% / 0.1920737176.0 Greece_BA_Mycenaean24.0 Turkey_Alalakh_MLBATarget: Turkey_EarlyByzantine_2Distance: 2.0882% / 0.0208822345.8 Greece_BA_Mycenaean42.0 Turkey_Alalakh_MLBA12.2 Turkey_EBATarget: Turkey_EarlyByzantine_1Distance: 5.5489% / 0.0554888474.8 Greece_BA_Mycenaean25.2 Turkey_MBATarget: Turkey_ByzantineDistance: 2.7953% / 0.0279525448.2 Greece_BA_Mycenaean40.6 Turkey_Alalakh_MLBA11.2 Turkey_Arslantepe_EBA
>>18737763Where are these samples from?
>>18737763>Anatolians were proto-Greeks.What a fucking retarded statement, no Hittites had 0 Greek ancestry, they had nothing to do with Proto-Greek which came from Logkas, do you think Proto-Greek somehow ended up in Anatolia, lost most of it's European-IE ancestry and then went back to Greece?
>>18737763>Target: Turkey_Roman_1>Distance: 19.2074% / 0.19207371>76.0 Greece_BA_Mycenaean>24.0 Turkey_Alalakh_MLBAAlso you fucking retarded, that sample has horrid distance, what are you doing
>>18737861*you're>>18737763If you force West Anatolians to be a mix of North Levantines(which is what Alalakh is) and Mycenean Greeks then of course you get inflated Mycenean ancestry, do you think West Anatolians mass suicided and let their land be flooded with North Levantines? Because that is clearly not what happened considering the evidence shows the exact opposite, massive Anatolian influence on the Balkans and Italy, not the opposite
>>18737343how come nobody has egypsy admix?
>>18737320>>18736931>>18736936>>18737015>>18737020This is a fake map that uses a real study as it's source, despite this not being in there. There is no separation of ottoman-era west Anatolian Turks from Roman era Anatolians in the study, nor is this something that's possible to reliably do in this context. Due to the Albanian pie, I'm assuming an Albanian made this to shill for his Balkan shithole by presenting false data. The red is basically inseparable from the green, and is not backed by the source linked in the picture, nevermind the fact there are around 50k real ethnic Turks in Kosovo, as one of the few places that still have them in the Balkans, which is 2% of the population. (only Bulgaria, Greece and Kosovo do). See for yourself: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867423011352
>>18736931>>18736936It's a fake map, but the only inflated Slavic percentages are in Romania, Greece and Albania. If you're too lazy to do any research, you can literally have LLM spoon-feed you.
>>18736926how does this work? like putting several historical eras together as measurable but the more modern ones are comprised of several of the older ones.if it was all IA from regional and distant sources sure but putting BA Greek (1500-1000BC) together with roman era Anatolia (0 AD) cannot produce accurate results without accounting for mixing and gradual migration drip in the fucking millennium in between
>>18737973>>18737976>>18736931>>18736936>>18737020I'm assuming this is an Albanian schizoing out with fake data, but could be a retard who fell for a meme without checking the study.
>>18737979It doesn't work, it's fake quoting a real study, read the actual study >>18737973
>>18737973B8ing /his/ spergs with fake maps and infographics is so fucking funny. Works every time
>>18737987It's the same Albanian schizo monkey who's been spamming fake things about Albania, Croatia and Serbia for the last 2 years. I'm honestly baffled people here are this retarded and that no one bothers to verify what they're looking at.
>>18737958Egypsies were kept tied to the land for obvious reasons. Rome needed grain. They also did not like to move much, and were kind of isolated geographically.
>>18737976>>18737980>>18737989>im too lazyYes because you’re a retarded low iq Serbian SHITSKIN suffering from cognitive dissonance. I’ve destroyed you in several debates and asked you multiple times to prove your horseshit but here you admit you are too lazy and rely on AI which gets it wrong all the time. Posting autosomal fake results when such distances like this exists.>inb4 faggot kvetchEarly Roman dna samples - Antonio et al 2019Albanian samples (numerous) from Vahaudo calculator distanced with other ethnic groups and ancient Roman sample. Albanians most closet if you factor out tosk Albanians.Serbs -> Sarban from Pakistan, migrated to Dagestan called Serboi in Roman records -> enslaved slavs and took their language and genes -> J2b1 YDNA common in 4% of Serbs and 5% of Iranians but 0% in Albanians -> Turkish Avars enslave new Serbs and bring them to Europe as a pestilenceSame Serbian faggot cannot provide a single Serbian Voivode of the richest most important town in medieval Serbia, Novo Brdo in Kosovo, which provided most of Serbi’s silver. Only two known Voivodes are Albanians. This bitch Serb could not find a single Serbian voivode, ie ruler. Somehow, Albanians were a tiny minority immigrant group while they ruled for two generations the most important asset in the entirety of medieval Serbia. The large silver mines of novo brdo previously exploited by Bulgarians, Byzantines and Romans. The Serb Autocephalous church was founded in 1219 by Saint Sava, but not in Kosovo, 150km north of Kosovo in Zica, Karljevo. Somehow Kosovo is their holy land, they had to colonize Kosovo for decades before moving their subhuman church seat to Kosovo. The earliest Serbian churches in Kosovo date to early 1300’s.
>>18738041The original Serbs were an iranic tribe that enslaved slavs in ukraine. They decided to speak their language and left minimal genetic impact but it’s still there in the form of J2b1 found in Serbs and Iranians but not Albanians.
>>18738045This isn’t unique, the German franks enslaved the gallo-Romans, adopted their language and did not replace the local men. The same with bulgars to Bulgarians of today. Serbian J2b1 is not found in a single ancient genetic sample in Europe but J2b2-l283 has been found dozens of times in ancient Europe from Illyria, to Greece to Italy to Sardinia well before the Iron Age. J2b2-l283, and J2b1 have their last common ancestor over 15,000 years ago. Different people.J2b2-l283 in Albanians 20%, in Serbs 2%J2b1 in Albanians 0%, in Serbs 4%, in Iranians 5%
>>18738041>>18738045>>18738049I was right, see? Spams the same fake shit for years, things you can debunk in a single good search.>There is no historical, genetic or linguistic link between Sarbani and Serbs
>>18738049Why are you debunking the Albanian connection with a nanoclade, yet making the connection for Serbs with a subclade? If we apply the same reasoning, then there is no distinction between you and northern africa, and egypsies, since you both have E1b.Serbs came from an Iranian tribe (however the one that makes a connection to Pakistan is edited and can be debunked with a single google search), just like every other European peoples except for Turks, Albanians, Greeks and south Italians, who instead came from north Africa.
>>18738049As for J specifically, since we know that any J is closer to any other J than to any R or I or E, and vice versa.l
>>18738049>>18738041>>18738045>>18738049And as for the specific J nanoclade found in Serbia, completely unrelated to what you're saying and is instead tied to paleo-balkan Vlachs, and also a single tribe in Montenegro.>Serbian G is predominantly European branches such as G-L497. N is a completely different subclade, i.e. N2-P189 > Y6516, picrel. In turkey that's N1a-P43. Q, like stated came from Ukraine and to Ukraine from Siberia. Likewise, a completely different subclade: Q-L330. J2a whose subclades are relevant is from one single tribe in Montenegro(Pješivci) and the same share is in both Albania and Serbia, and in meaningless numbers (0.5%), the rest are paleo-balkan Vlachs.Literally things anyone can look up with s single google search.
>>18738068J2b1 is a sub clade of J2b not a macro like E1b you fucking retarded brown gypsy. You can’t argue at all. You have J2b1 and we don’t simple as that. You have it like Iranians have it because your disgusting ancestors were sarban that became serboi with clear etymological evolution. Linguistics and genetics say you were Iranians first and then became Slav orcs. Keep coping.
>>18738041Also, the >>18737980 post can be verified by anyone in Vahaduo using Albanian samples combined with the rest of the samples in that picture.The image you keep spamming is dubious, since it uses a real sample for Romans, and yet a self submitted sample of <100 Albanians, who can be cherry picked. It's also a completely unrelated distance that's the same as the distance between Austrians and Serbs. I don't see any Serbs claiming Austrians as Serbs.
>>18738084>looping for izzatLiterally debunked by a single google search.>>18738061How long have you spammed /his/ with fake things by now? Must be 2 years.
>>18738085Kek you bitch, before you were talking out your ass saying only 1 Albanian cherry-picked sample now it’s 100 because you don’t know what you are talking about. Vahaduo uses genetic aggregates for ethnic groups and Albanians are no different to any ethnic group listed. Take any Albanian and they will match closely to Ancient Rome compared to anybody else especially Serbs.Keep coping, Kosovo was never yours and that’s what it boils down to
>>18737973it's based on the qpadm models in the supplementary material
>>18738084Everyone in Europe has roots from Iranians except for you, Turks, Bulgarians, Greeks and south Italians, who instead have it from north Africa.Again, I'll remind you: any e is more related to any other e than to any I or R, any J to any other J than to any I or R, and so on... So with that in mind:E: 40-50%J2: 15-20% (near-eastern)Turkey:J2: 24-26E: 11-14%J1: 5-9%
>>18738088Didn’t debunk anything, genetics prove the Sarban-Serboi-Serb theory 100%. The fact that you have the same etymology, the fact that you the same subclade at similar percent as Iranians, not found in Albanians, not even found in west slavs or East Slavs even Ukrainians, only means the original Serbs were iranic.
>>18737976not a fake map, it's based on the qpadm in the supplementary material>>18737320i don't think pop density has anything to do with it, otherwise we would have found ton of egyptian ancestry, for some reason the roman empire served as an engine for anatolian and levantine migrations
>>18738094You have to post gypsies or south Serbs who are closer to you and Bulgarians genetically, I'm posting real Albanians. Anyone with an ounce of logic is aware that the Balkans got bleached by Slavic migrations, and that the more Slavic admixture you have, the whiter you are, which is why.
>>18738093>everyone in Europe has roots from Iranlol no they don’t. >resorting macro haplogroupsYou see how you bitch out, subclades destroy your whole world because you come from Iran, raped some slavshits and took their language then got raped by Turks.You have iranic J2b1, Turk N, Turk Q, and Albanians have zero percent.
>>18738099I am posting Serbs not gypsies
>>18738100>Finns are Turks>Lithuanians are Turks>Estonians are Turks>Russians are Turks>Ukrainians are Turks>Croats are Turks>Danes and swedes are Turks>Serbs are TurksLooping again, aren't we? You're the only one who has 50k literal Turks, or 2% of the population. >Serbian G is predominantly European branches such as G-L497. N is a completely different subclade, i.e. N2-P189 > Y6516, picrel. In turkey that's N1a-P43. Q, like stated came from Ukraine and to Ukraine from Siberia. Likewise, a completely different subclade: Q-L330. J2a whose subclades are relevant is from one single tribe in Montenegro(Pješivci) and the same share is in both Albania and Serbia, and in meaningless numbers (0.5%), the rest are paleo-balkan Vlachs.
>>18738104>SIBERIA SIBERIA SIBERIAlol how come Albanians do not have this gene then dipshit? Hahahaha
>>18738100Do you seriously think anyone who isn't familiar with what you wear would say this isn't in Turkey? The only giveaway that it's Albania is the Albanian hat, everyone else would say middle east.p
>>18738106Religious garb, meanwhile here is Serbian ETHNIC garb lolSame as Iran, same as Turkmen.
>>18738105Why would you have it, retard? You are not a Slav nor did you come from Ukraine or any west Slavic tribes. You have the map in >>18738081 and the explanation can be spoonfed to you by any LLM.
>>18738109Of course we aren’t slavshits. You said Q comes from Yamnaya, meanwhile Albanians have direct Yamnaya haplogroup R1b-z2103 (z2108 Balkan mutation), R1b-PF7576, and J2b2-l283 found in Yamnaya gravesites. Serbs have these genes at a combine 5% at best, same as their Iranic J2b1. So how is it we don’t have Q and N while you do if they are Yamnaya?
>>18738108That's just paleo-balkan admixture, i.e. random tanned cherry picked villagers from southern Serbia who are closer to Bulgarians and Albanians than Serbs.Are you seriously arguing that 2 Western Slavic tribes (White Serbia and white Croatia, white means west geographically) didn't bleach the brown paleo-balkan region and that the amount of Slavic admixture isn't directly proportional to the whiteness of one populace? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Serbiahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_CroatiaIt obviously is, which is why the less paleo-balkan admixture one has, the whiter (Slovenia->Croatia->Bosnian Serbs->Vojvodina->Bosnian Muslims->Central Serbia->Southern Serbia->Montenegro->Romania->Macedonia->Bulgaria->Kosovo->Albania->Greece
>>18738111R1b and J2b-L283 = 40% of Albanian ghegE-V13 = 30% of Albanian ghegCucenti-Trypilla culture has E1b sample found, not further down streamed by 100% E-L618 or its son E-V13.>A 2018 study by Mathiesson et al., published in Nature, included a whole-genome analysis of four males from the Nikitin et al., 2017 study, and described them as roughly 80% EEF, with around 20% of the rest of their ancestry being intermediate between EHG and WHG. With respect to Y-DNA, two carried haplogroup G2a2b2a (G-CTS688 and G-PF3330), while one carried G2a-PF3141 and one E-CTS10894. With respect to mtDNA, they carried H5a, T2b, HV and U8b1b.[89] According to admixture analysis they had approximately 75% EEF, 10% both Western and Eastern Hunter-Gatherer and less than 5% traces of Yamnaya-related ancestry.[90]
>>18738113The evidence is piling up, etymology, historical Roman records, genetics (J2b1), and now very similar headdress. You can deny it all you want but it’s right there plain and clear.
>>18738111If you didn't larp for izzat 24/7 and accuse Danes, Finns, Russians, Ukrainians, Croats, Serbs and so on of being Turks due to having N, while you yourself have only E and J, which are not shared with anyone but south Italians, Turks and balkaners, maybe you could learn something sometimes.>Haplogroup N2-P189 > Y6516 represents a unique paternal genetic lineage that originated in Central Asia/Southern Siberia but achieved its primary modern diversification and highest frequency in the West Balkans (specifically among Serbs and Montenegrins).• Famous Historical Links: Families belonging to this genetic cluster traditionally celebrate the Slava (patron saint day) of St. John the Baptist (Sveti Jovan). Famous historical and modern figures matching this lineage or its specific tribal branches include the Serbian epic hero Bajo Pivljanin, writer Miloš Crnjanski, and NBA superstar Nikola Jokić
>>18738119Serboon thinks AI is all the proof he needs, meanwhile AI says Kosovo is Albanian. So why the bitching endlessly? I personally rely on facts and high IQ analysis to prove my point.
>>18738123Serboon relies on ai from google lol
>>18738122Stop deflecting, how come we don’t have it while you do if it is Yamnaya? Are you saying R1b is not Yamnaya then? We have it 3 times as much as you while you have 3% N and we have 0% N, plus you have 0.5% and we have 0% Q. Logically we would have more N and Q than you.
>>18738123Now ask it when did Albanians first settled Kosovo. Balkans being paleo-balkan and Illyrian does not mean it's Albanian, just like I cannot claim Poland, sorbia or Czechia by virtue of both being Slavs. Albanians were just one swarthy paleo-balkan Illyrian tribe out of hundreds, who at the time didn't even populate all of their modern borders.Or better yet, look at actual documented demographics instead of arguing against historically accepted consensuses that Albanians didn't become the majority until the 19th century, and that they first settled it when invited by the Serbian emperor to work in a mine in Novo brdo.
>>18738131>no single date for when Albanians arrivedYes because Albanians were always there lol>invited to work in the mines of novo BrdoYes and two voivodes (rulers) were Albanians, the most important town in all of medieval Serbia ruled by two Albanians and these two Albanians are the only known voivoides in historical records lol somehow immigrant minority came to rule the richest part of Serb realm.
>>18738122>>18738129I already gave you several explanations from several different sources, and showed the map of it.Again, using your arguments that you try to use against Serbs, Finns, Lithuanians, swedes, Croats, Russians and so on, you're not even white since unless we look at subclades and nanoclades, there's no difference between you and Turks>Nikola Jokić, N2-P189 > Y6516
>>18738136All you have proven is N is an invader gene just like J2b1. Nothing paleo-Balkan or Yamnaya about these genes.
>>18738137I never said yamnaya or Paleo Balkan, because I'm not proud of being Balkan at all nor do I view it as a good thing. Paleo-balkaners are brown, rabid animals and it is self evident that the more such admixture a country has, the worse it is (just look at the gradient Slovenia-Croatia-Serbia)>invaderProud of that and never said Serbian origin is paleo-balkan, even though there is significant genetic admixture now, only said that Albanians are simply one of the hundreds swarthy, brown, stupid and short paleo-balkan tribes conquered by a small and outnumbered west Slavic tribe.>>18738093>>18738113
>>18738138>proven Illyrian and paleobalkan dna>over 70% ydna in ghegs>meanwhile Serbs aren’t even 50% Slavic YDNA>somehow, Albanians are not Illyrians or the same as the illyrians that lived in the lands that Albanians currently occupy Okay retard; even your precious AI disagrees.
>>18738135>>18738144>Albanians were always thereHahaha, are all Illyrians Albanians, or are Albanians just one swarthy paleo-balkan and Illyrian tribe out of hundreds. The answer is obviously the latter. I don't claim Poland or Czechia, you don't claim other paleo-balkan tribes like Vlachs.
>>18738143Great that you admit you’re just a foreign invader, just like your ancestors snuck into Kosovo in 1200’s.
>>18738146You should claim Poland because the Serbs lived there before they reached the Balkans.
>>18738144The only purpose of the AI is to debunk the claims you make that are against common sense, common scientific and historical concensuses and so on. I don't particularly care what it says on "blood link", obviously Albanians have more paleo-balkan admixture, whereas Serbs have more Slavic admixture. I care that it debunks your schizo-tier claims of when Albanians settled it, who was the main populace for how long, and when Albanians became the majority (hint: 19th century).If you wish to we wuzz via shared ancestry, just imagine me we wuzzing about czechia, Poland, Ukraine, or Russia due to all being Slavic tribes.Let's now look at Wikipedia, toohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo
>>18738147>>18738150You would have been a foreign invader to Kosovo, too, as Albanians did not live there, but rather other paleo-balkan tribes who were simply closer to Albanians than to Serbs.The only real invader is you, as you settled Kosovo when invited to work there by the Serbian emperor, and even in 1980, when most Serbs had left, you were a minority in this very city, which has a Serbian name btw, despite trying to we wuzz via 3 vojvode for 30 years from the same family who were selected due to loyalty to the Serbian emperor.
>>18738155We have already been through this, defter of brankovich excludes western Kosovo, includes other areas of modern Serbia and excluded thousands of Albanians living in novo brdo district because defters of novo brdo clearly conflicts with defter of brankovic. Besides this only two known rulers or novo brdo were Albanians.
>>18738159We have, but yet you keep looping despite all ottoman and Serbian censuses showing the same results, despite that being readable on Wikipedia, and despite your claim it excluded someone being debunked by AI immediately - the only thing you tell us by screeching about that is that you were Serbian slaves for a long time.>Debunked: This contradicts how the Ottoman Empire operated. The Ottomans had just conquered the District of Branković; they did not care about previous legal statuses under Branković, nor did they recognize "slaves" or exempt people from taxes based on ethnicity>Debunked: This contradicts how the Ottoman Empire operated. The Ottomans had just conquered the District of Branković; they did not care about previous legal statuses under Branković, nor did they recognize "slaves" or exempt people from taxes based on ethnicity
>>18738159>In the book of debtors belonging to Ragusan merchant Mihail Lukarevic, who resided in Novo Brdo during the 1430s, 150 Albanian household heads were mentioned as living in Novo Brdo with their families. They worked as miners, artisans and specialists in the mines of Novo Brdo.150 households in just one town!According to defter of brankovic there were only 46 Albanians households for entire area of eastern Kosovo and parts of Montenegro and Serbia. Clear contradiction. It is because defter of brankovic only listed brankovic serfs.150 Albanian households in novo brdo might equal to 750 people. Meanwhile the estimate total town population was 4000-5000. That means 15-20% of the town was Albanian.Finally the defter of brankovic only lists 14,000 household which totals to 140,000 people assuming 10 person per household. Kosovo had at least 300,000-500,000 people back then.
>>18738159>The Ottoman census covered 80% of Kosovo and saw... 99% Serbian results
>>18738167>80% of Kosovo included Western Kosovo is entirely excluded retard: that’s 40% excluded and even novo Brdo inhabitants were excluded
>>18738166You are saying this with a straight face, arguing against all historical consensus, meanwhile that same city (whose name is Serbian) was 60% Serbian even in 1990.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo
>>18738172T. Arguing against all historical consensuses which can be read on Wikipedia, or simply by prompting an ai.Naturally, ottomans preferred Albanians over Serbs, so why would they ever favor Serbs over Albanians on censuses - they wouldn't.
>>18738173You are with a straight face not even reading your own sources. Defter of brankovic exlcuded western Kosovo and mentions only 46 Albanian households meanwhile novo brdo, had 150 Albanian households. Quite clear that most Albanians were not included in defter of brankovic because most Albanians in Kosovo were not under brankovic rule in 1455, 1 year after novo brdo was conquered by Turks and Kosovo entirely became Turkish land.
>>18738176Then explain why 150 Albanian households are listed in just the town of Novo Brdo (real name Artane) by Mihail Lukarevic in 1430, while in 1455 only 46 Albanian households are mentioned in all of eastern Kosovo? It is because in 1454 ottomans took full control and brankovic became a vassal and his serfs are listed as his property.
>>18738178Obviously Novo brdo had a lot more since you were invited (and enslaved) to work in the mines by the Serbian emperor. That is, by accepted historic consensus, what marks your intrusion into the land
>>18738182>enslavedYou lack the ability to think critically. Why would enslaved people become the only two known Voivodes (rulers) of the most richest and important town in all of medieval serbia?
>>18738178>>18738181>>18738182>>18738187>150 Albanian homes in 1430, compared to 855 homes of all people in the town in 1499. That means Albanians were a noticeable plurality as I’ve said. Just like all of Kosovo between 1200-1600.LMAO, Albanian IQ or another izzat lie?>No, Albanians were not the plurality (the largest single group) in medieval Novo Brdo. While the text correctly notes that a significant and well-documented Albanian community existed there, they were one of several minority groups within a much larger population.During its peak in the 14th and 15th centuries, Novo Brdo was a massive, cosmopolitan mining metropolis with an estimated population of 5,000 to 10,000+ residents. Historical consensus breaks down the demographics as follows:>The Majority: Serbs constituted the overall majority of the town's population and surrounding rural areas. The town was founded and ruled by Serbian monarchs (such as the Nemanjić and Lazarević dynasties), and Ottoman defters (tax registers) from the mid-to-late 15th century show a heavy predominance of Slavic/Orthodox names in most neighborhoods.>The Core Elite: Saxons (German miners known locally as Sasi) were brought in by Serbian kings specifically for their advanced metallurgy skills. They formed the administrative and legal backbone of the mining industry.>The Commercial Class: Ragusans (merchants from modern-day Dubrovnik) and citizens from Split controlled the luxury trade and financial markets.
>>18738188>>18738182>>18738185>>18738173>The Minorities: Albanians, along with smaller communities of Greeks and Jews, lived alongside these groups>The Minorities: Albanians, along with smaller communities of Greeks and Jews, lived alongside these groups>The Minorities: Albanians, along with smaller communities of Greeks and Jews, lived alongside these groups>The Minorities: Albanians, along with smaller communities of Greeks and Jews, lived alongside these groups>The Minorities: Albanians, along with smaller communities of Greeks and Jews, lived alongside these groups
>>18738188Denying the evidence? 150 homes in 1430, translates to nearly 1000 people, the town had at its peak 5000 people. Remember, just one town had 1000 Albanians. Defter of Brankovic was wrriten in the same year that Serbs became vassals of Turks and the gracious sultan let brankovic keep his serfs which most Albanians in Kosovo were not.
>>18738187Vojvoda is a military commander, kefalija is the ruler. Serbs had significantly more kefalijas than Albanians, while there were only ever 2 vojvodas in the entire timespan, so your sample is meaningless anyway.>The Serbs had significantly more kefalijas than the Albanians. In fact, the title of kefalija was a formal, deeply integrated pillar of the medieval Serbian state administration, whereas it saw very minimal to negligible use among independent Albanian principalities.Because loyalty to the emperor was much more important than ethnicity and that's how it worked everywhere in Europe, and the two vojvode you speak of are from the same family, i.e. father and son. He was loyal to the Serbian emperor, so he was placed there.
>>18738200>>18738187I just don't find it interesting to argue fringe history made up by an Albanian schizo on 4chan, when I can look at the historical consensus or read about it on Wikipedia, or better yet simply paste your questions and lies to an LLM and forward the answer, because I do not care about Kosovo, only your LARPs.
>>18738200lol you realize that names like Count and Duke are also Roman military commands? Kefalija is as different to Voivoides as lords and nobles and the only two known voivodes of the most important town in all of medieval Serbia were Albanians. Not a single Serb known, not a single Serb known despite your historical records which are clearly lacking.
>>18738193>>18738200>>18738202Like, you're literally arguing that the city that was the center of the Serbian empire, has a Serbian name, and was 60% Serbian even in 1980s by the time most Serbs had left, wuz akshually Albanian. You're arguing against a census that included 80% of Kosovo, found 99% Serbian names, and was conducted by ottomans, and then also every other census done by them.You're arguing against things a first grader can look up in a minute, if only he were to follow the accepted historical consensus, which you do not because you have to larp.
>>18738204The census excludes all of western Kosovo, did you not bother to read that? Besides that it contradicts census of novo brdo which has 3 times more Albanian households listed in just one town in 1430 than all of eastern Kosovo in 1455, the same year Serbs became vassals of Turks. The census is only for brankovics serfs. Most Albanians were not apart of it clearly. Now explain why the only two known rulers of Artane(real name of novo brdo) were Albanians?
>>18738204Novo brdo is the main reason you boons invaded Kosovo, you came for the silver. Your subhuman church was founded 150km north of Kosovo in 1219, in zica kraljevo not Kosovo. And your earliest churches in Kosovo were in the early 1300’s.
>>18738208>The Ottoman cadastral tax census (defter) of 1455 in the District of Branković (defter Vuk-ili) is one of the oldest Ottoman tax registers in the Balkans. At the time of the defter, the District of Branković included parts of central Serbia (present-day Toplica District and the historical Raška Region), part of northeastern Montenegro and parts of eastern Kosovo (the Kosovo Plain).[2]No mention of western Kosovo. >tax census for brankovicHis serfs, Albanians clearly not his serfs. Only 46 listed Albanian households in 1455, meanwhile Novo Brdo had 150 listed Albania households 25 years earlier. Clearly the census does not even include most of eastern Kosovo since novo brdo is in eastern Kosovo. Or Albanians were mostly not included.
>>18738203>Novo brdo kefalijas• Gojislav (fl. 1380s): Served as the kefalija of Novo Brdo under Prince Lazar Hrebeljanović. He is recorded in merchant documents arbitrating legal disputes between local miners and Ragusan traders.• Vlatko (fl. 1410s): Documented during the reign of Despot Stefan Lazarević. He oversaw the implementation of Novo Brdo’s famous custom mining laws (Zakon o rudnicima).• Bogdan (fl. 1430s): Served under Despot Đurađ Branković. His administration managed the defense of the fortress during initial Ottoman incursions.>But why the two Albanian vojvodeSame family, father and son, loyalty to the Serbian emperor, and lack of regard for ethnicity in the medieval ages - nothing special, emperors were ultimately only concerned with loyalty.>As a crown jewel of the medieval Serbian state, Novo Brdo's administration was overwhelmingly staffed by Serbian nobles appointed directly by the Nemanjić, Lazarević, and Branković monarchs.>In medieval Europe, a ruler or high-ranking administrator did not need to belong to the majority or plurality ethnic group of the city they governed. Rule was determined by feudal allegiance, noble lineage, and appointments by the sovereign, not by democratic majorities or demographic pluralities.>Novo Brdo was the second most important city in the Serbian Despotate. The ruler of the town—typically holding the title of vojvoda (military commander/governor) or kefalija (administrative governor)—was directly appointed by the Serbian Despot.Serbian rulers frequently appointed loyal noblemen from various backgrounds to govern vital regions based on merit, military capability, or political alliances. For example, during the Ottoman siege of Novo Brdo (1440–1441), the prominent Albanian nobleman Petar Spani (vojvoda Petar Spani) was a close personal ally and military commander serving Despot Đurađ Branković. Noble allegiance to the crown mattered far more than the ethnicity of the local popula
>>18738206The census that covers 80% of Kosovo and found 99% Serbian names*It doesn't contradict the census of Novo brdo, since as explained, Novo brdo had the highest concentration of Albanians in Kosovo and marked your incursion there, as you were invited and enslaved by the Serbian emperor to work in the mines >>18738191>>18738188Within novo brdo, where you cannot argue you were excluded:>The Minorities: Albanians, along with smaller communities of Greeks and Jews, lived alongside these groups
>>18738210>No mentions of Western KosovoIt covered 80% of Kosovo and found 99% Serbian names>>18738210>Only 46 listed Albanian households in 1455, meanwhile Novo Brdo had 150 listed Albania households 25 years earlier. Clearly the census does not even include most of eastern Kosovo since novo brdo is in eastern KosovoThat's because you were invited to work in the mine by the Serbian emperor, left when Turks took it over, and then slowly came back.The town itself was 60% Serbian even in 1980 when most Serbs left. Again, you don't actually care what the truth is, you only want to larp. Complete historical records of population censuses didn't exist anywhere in Europe, 80% and 99% is statistically valid. Of course, you can just read:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo
>>18738211>goyslavThere you finally found one ruler. >two Albanians didn’t care for their ethnicityThey obviously would not have come to rule novo brdo if they did not have demographic backing,
>>18738109>>18738093
>Since the late 1990s, Albania has had a reputation as a global leader in human trafficking.>ECPAT Albania estimated that in 2018 alone, over 5,000 Albanian children were victims of international trafficking.>Albanian Law Does Not Protect Children From Being Exploited Through Prostitution
https://www.gbnews.com/news/albanians-top-list-most-arrests-per-population-uk
>>18738219Your source literally says just parts of eastern Kosovo, not even all of eastern Kosovo and no mention of western Kosovo.>albanians leftOr Albanians sided with the better Turks that were better rulers. And were not serfs of brankovic.
>>18738041This is hilarious. I love this energy.
Albania winning against Afghanistan in Norway too
>>18738227>>18738228>>18738232Sex assault at higher rates than somalis, morrocans, Iraqis and everyone else
>According to the Quality of Life Survey conducted by the European Commission, around 17% of respondents said they lack a toilet or shower at home>17% of albanians don't have working showers or toilets>17% of albanians don't have working showers or toilets>17% of albanians don't have working showers or toilets(the highest in europe, 4x higher than the next) (Macedonia, large albanian population)https://www.balkanweb.com/en/Survey-shows-Albanians-have-unsanitary-and-damp-homes/#gsc.tab=0
>>18738232>>18738228>>18738233Tank you for be letting us on y'all's island Mr Tony Blair I namemmy Albanian kid in your respect.he is now call Tonibler. Tank you for bombing Serbia Mr Tony Blair . BTW WE ARE GRWATEST ILYR WASRIRORR S WE WIN VS THE WORLD HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ALBANIANDIPAPOOPA IM IN CANADA TO CONWUER IT AHAHAHAHAH ALBANIA #1*Posts dead little swedish girl*
>Dua lipa shows off her natural beauty without makeuphttps://www.dailymail.com/tvshowbiz/article-14621283/Dua-Lipa-takeaway-London-world-tour.html
>>18738229>Or Albanians sided with the better TurksWell, that's the tradition for 600 years now, one that is rarely mentioned, as you're the only country not to genocide Turks after the first Balkan war, and to still ally with them and rely on them for national defense, as they give you free equipment and are your self-confessed #1 ally.>When comparing who fought more for (rather than against) the Ottoman Empire, Albanians fought for the Ottomans significantly more in terms of overall duration, numbers, and high-level strategic impact. Nevermind the 50k Turks in Kosovo or the 20% of global Albanian population that lives in Turkey.>>18737983
>>18738256>>18737983
>former Albanian president of Kosovo
>Kosovars are 98% Muslim>Albania is 8% christian>Albanians as an ethnicity are 2% Christian >>18737983>Middle eastern Syria was 10% christian before the warthere are 7-10 MILLION ALBANIANS in the world, ONLY 2 MILLION LIVE IN ALBANIAABOUT 20% OF THE 10 MILLION LIVE IN TURKEYSWITZERLAND IS 6.6% ALBANIAN DUE TO RAPEFUGEESRAPEFUGEETHERE ARE 50K TURKS IN KOSOVO, MORE IF YOU COUNT ASSIMILATEDhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanians
>>18738157>>18738250albanians are functionally retarded
>>18738258>Turkey donates to Albania, Albania builds the largest mosque in Europe
Greeks are yamnaya, paleobalkan and farmer admixture. People from made up countries who undoubtedly don't even look like their supposed ancestors (Turkics, Slavics, etc) try to use these as proxies for themselves. At least Albanians are actually local despite their delusions of creating all nations despite being unmentioned and having no written language until 50 years ago.>"Ottoman admixture"
Same Albanian schizo that's been shitting up his for 2 years
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