How did Manchu Qing buckbreak and conquer Ming China if Ming had previously defeated horselord mongols 200 years ago and gun technology was already flourishing in early 1600’s? Oda Nobunga used flintlock mass volley to defeat the local Calvary focused takeda clan so the Ming Chinese should have logically been able to easily defeat the Jurchen/Manchu Qing invaders.What happened?
>Oda Nobunga used flintlock mass volley to defeat the local CalvaryWet weather and hilly terrain are bigger factors in Takeda's elite shock offensive being ineffective; matchlock just popularizes the "gun won" narrative.
>>18740118Cope, after 1560 gunners represented 40% of typical army setup in Europe. It was basically already happening in Japan so it should have happened in China.
>>18740126>Cope, after 1560 gunners represented 40% of typical army setup in Europe. It was basically already happening in Japan so it should have happened in Chin-ACK!!
>>18740136I’m asking that question so contribute
>>18740108The Ming state and army were massively dysfunctional by that time, and the Qing also used guns. The Manchu were only half-nomadic.
>>18740108The Qing invaded in a time when the Ming Dynasty already collapsed in the hands of assorted rebels, chiefly the Shun Dynasty.Incidentally that's also why the Qing acquired firearms. The peasant rebels were so angry at Ming corruption that they were stupidly killing every ex-Ming soldier they could find instead of- you know- hiring them. The Manchus realized they'd need guns to invade the rest of China outside of the Northeast so they wisely offered ex-Ming soldiers officer & noble ranks in their new Qing Dynasty.Chiefly, this guy.
>>18740458Thanks. What about Southern Ming?
