>The church shouldn’t control the wealth and property of a country and hold political influence over its governmentWhy does this statement make TradCaths seethe so much? You don’t even need to agree with Luther to acknowledge that the church was sticking their nose where it didn’t belong. My country should be run solely by its natives and all its wealth should be solely controlled by its natives. No foreigner should have any stake in the governance of my country, no foreigner should control the land and resources of my country.No religious institution in general should be allowed any sort of tithes or tax exemptions. If you place loyalty to God above loyalty to the state, you are a traitor.
>>18768159You're missing the point of the Separation of Church and State anon. It was to protect the Churches from getting corrupted by the State, not the other way around. They saw firsthand how the Church of England became a state apparatus for the British Crown and wanted to avoid repeating this. That's why the Church doesn't have to pay taxes, it's to avoid the state using taxation to manipulate or favor Churches that follow the state's agenda.
>>18768159Because that would be at odds with Unam Sanctam.
>>18768159>If you place loyalty to God above loyalty to the state, you are a traitor.If you don't place God above your state then you are a poor believer. But the Church isn't God. Temple Judaism was designed to be a state religion, deeply intertwined with the government. One of the innovations in early Christianity and similar Jewish sects was a rejection of worldly affairs; rendering onto Caesar what is Caesar's, while rendering onto God what is God's. The Roman emperors adopted and unified Christianity and turned it into a state religion again. That resulted in the corrupted mess that was medieval Catholicism. Hereditary Popes who ruled like kings and turned holy places into whore houses.
>>18768165You are clinically retarded if you believe "separation of Church and State" means tax exemption.
>>18768159>If you place loyalty to God above loyalty to the state, you are a traitor.Oh noes.. a traitor.. to the Jewish oligarchy who runs my country? Jolly J that's terrible. Moving on.
>>18768193The Vatican is literally owned by the Rothschilds and Catholics as a whole engaged in the same scummy behavior as Jewish merchants for the past millennia.
>>18768159>religious institutionThey are all corporations, this is the 21st century. The Vatican City state like the London City state and District of Columbia are all sovereign nations legally. This is buried in mountains of legalese so in theory they can all do whatever the hell they want with impunity because no "nation" is ever going to directly declare war against any of them.More precisely, if this is viewed as a global conglomerate, they have all 3 bases covered, the temporal/financial - London, the spiritual - Vatican City, and the military to back it up - D.C.
>>18768159All non-profit organizations should be tax-exempt. A local church subsisting on donations is no different from a local charity, which generally will be run by the church anyway. The only issue is when they sell products for profit and write it off as donations, like Scientology does. They should have to pay taxes in that instance.
>>18768192>Churches are taxed>politician lobbies to lower taxes on Churches that follow their agenda>Church doesn't want to pay taxes so they oblige>politician is then able to leverage hundreds of Christards for their agendaThat's why Church's don't pay taxes. It's really that simple. It's to keep them all politically neutral
>>18768250>make it illegal to lower taxes on churches>99% of the GOP goes ACK overnight>problem solved
>>18768259Okay, but then you still have the problem of politicians threatening to raise taxes on Churches that don't follow the state's agenda. Way to go retard. >duuuh just make raising taxes illegal duuuuh!Sorry libertarian, that's just not going to happen
>>18768165>The medieval church was not a den of corruption o algo
>>18768462>hurr durr not gonna happenThat's the best you can do?
>>18768159Half of the time the Catholic church brought about the anti-clerical reactions they so love to Kvetch about on themselves. Usually in response to completely reasonable reforms.Error has no rights? Then neither do you!
>>18768484The Medieval Church was essentially a for-profit enterprise, which is what is going to happen to current churches if we started charging them taxes because their only source of revenue is donations made on the promise of missionary work, which if the Church can't fulfill because they're stuck paying taxes, then people are likewise going to stop giving them money, forcing them to find new sources of revenue, AKA the Medieval Church
>>18768527The medieval church literally had tax exemptions and mandatory tithes, you have no clue what you are talking about
>>18768534They also had considerable influence over which rulers had legitimacy anon. At best you're argument is just a false equivalence regardless
>>18768537And that political influence doesn’t have anything to do with their corruption and tax exemptions?
>>18768540It has more to do with the fact that they controlled tens of millions of Germoids
>>18768187Christians never rendered unto Caesar what is Caesar’s given they refused to worship Rome’s gods.
>If you place loyalty to God above loyalty to the state, you are a traitor.This is a point where Nationalism, Liberalism, and Communism can all agree, because they really are united on the fundamentals. But for the Christian, there is no conflict, God does not say to us "you must betray your nation to serve Me," but ideology does say "you must betray God to serve the glorious Idea."
>>18768545I really don't think it was ever the opinion of a single Roman that the Emperor was the man who could dictate the gods a man worshipped. Especially given the fact that -- even without Christianity -- religion changed quite a bit under the watch of the Emperors.
>>18768548Someone should really tell us how Greco-Roman paganism changed during the centuries of Roman rule prior to Christianity’s adoption by Constantine. I’m not knowledgeable enough, but this board is lacking if nobody steps up.
>>18768548>>18768549Sol Invictus and Mithras never replaced the existing Roman pantheon like Jesus did.
>>18768549I'm genuinely a bit astonished that you don't appear to know what I'm talking about -- the fact that new religions other than Christianity were quite successful for a while and were allowed to spread freely. I continually make the mistake of underestimating the stupidity of others -- I'm sorry that I assumed you were something more than what you are.
>>18768554I can visualize you scrambling for a retort that appears to push back; very well done. But this doesn't push back, this doesn't explain anything, especially in light of how much Judaism was allowed to expand. Now please, make me laugh, and tell me that the Romans thought that meddling in matters of religion was the Emperor's business. The one time they tried it -- during the persecutions -- it just made the Christians look sympathetic, and the Emperors arbitrary and cruel. You do not read, you do not know anything.
>>18768567>Now please, make me laugh, and tell me that the Romans thought that meddling in matters of religion was the Emperor's busiThey did, otherwise intellectuals like Porphyry wouldn't have advocated for Christians to be put to death. Isis and Mithras were tolerated because they didn't replace the existing Roman pantheon, Christians meanwhile deserved mistreatment for their explicit rejection of the Roman pantheon
>>18768246No, any institution not under oversight from the state is a den of conspiracy and treachery to the country
>>18768462>Okay, but then you still have the problem of politicians threatening to raise taxes on Churches that don't follow the state's agenda. Way to go retard.And that's objectively a good thing. Loyalty to the state matters above all, a lack of oversight over religious institutions is why we have evangelical megachurches and rampant pedophilia in the catholic church.
Freemasonry is smalltime. Me and my homies are PaidMasons. We know our worth
>>18768165>They saw firsthand how the Church of England became a state apparatus for the British Crown>Implying the church never held influence over medieval governments
>>18768159Your country's natives are almost certainly shit eating barbarians that never did anything interesting before the Church arrived and brought civilization.
>>18768193Van der Leyen isn't gonna let you hit bro
>>18770106Whether the church was a tool of the monarchs or the monarchs a tool of the church depended on the time of day, the season, and whether or not mercury was in retrograde. But there was always a power relationship.
>>18770429Actually, this reminds me. When you look up pop-history lists of the best and worst popes ever, you will inevitably find Innocent III in the one, and Boniface VIII in the other. And sometimes I wonder if the main reason that is the case is that Innocent III by all counts succeeded and Boniface VIII lost and was maybe assassinated by the kings of France. What do you guys think?
>>18770135no somali resttlement today, father o'laherty
>>18770429>the church was a tool of the monarchsIt really wasn't as the medieval church was an oligarchy that controlled all land and wealth.
>>18770884There was a seventy year period where the Pope was basically a servant of the king of France. Hardly a harmonious relationship.
>>18768159Trad cucks literally schismed their way out of ANY wealth or power, and now they literally exist out of shitty high schools and run down community centers.. they are fools. As a soto zen monk of no lineage I laugh at all religions with glee
>>18768549Not enough to replace or eradicate the worship of existing gods
>>18770995>ServantBeing able to excommunicate kings and force Europe to be subservient to the interests of Christianity isn't being a servant.
>>18770106I think his point was closer to>State power over church: bad>Church power over state: good, or at least less bad
>The church shouldn’t control the wealth and property of a countryTrueIt should control education, science and charity.
>>18772105No, it should control nothing because they are parasites.Modern secular states are better at handling education and welfare than the church ever was.
>>18768165Literally the opposite retard, the church has always been a den of corruption. They were literally an oligarchy in the middle ages because they held immense wealth and power, and had influence over European governments.The state is more moral and less corrupt
>>18768159>sticking their noseWas the antisemitism really necessary?
Masons are weird because they do some rituals involving sodomy
>>18772268It's funny you say that while the Western world is burning. It is so obvious the church should have prevented secularism by any means possible, and it is what will happen eventually anyway. From the already established, only the most extremist will remain, Jews and Afghanis.
>>18772940>the Western world is burningYes because chuds like you are trying to sabotage it and burn it down. Really the French Revolution didn't go far enough since parasites like you were allowed to continue to exist
>>18770080They are calling it the most Finnish post of all time
