Why do muslims worship a cube? inb4:>we don't think a cube is Godobviously you cans see for yourself that they worship a cubeinb4:>but whatabout catholicsdidn't ask and don't care
Muslim here. If you acknowledge and accept that Christians are idolaters that worship an actual human man, I will know you are asking in good faith, and I will answer why we worship a cube.
>>18784970Jews bowed to the Temple and it's a gigantic box. What makes the Islamic form of prayer so insidious, however, is the placement of the Black Stone. As a baetyl, or a "House of God" a West Semitic form of stone worship, the Black Stone would be considered a nusub, which their prophet Muhammad called "the work of Satan". They have it embedded in the Ka'ba, and whenever they go on pilgrimage to Mecca their ritual circumambulation, Tawaf, begins at the corner where the stone is embedded. The hadiths say that the Black Stone will come alive and have two eyes and a mouth and testify on behalf of believers, and that kissing it will serve to expiate a multitude of sins. It is literal idol worship in the most insidiously subtle form.
>>18784972>but whatabout christiansdidn't ask and don't care
Where the muslims at? why don't they want to talk about their religion?
>>18784970I'll write an extensive article debunking this cube worship nonsense later
>>18785166Don't bother, I have a great picture proving muslims all worship a cube right here. you yourself also worship the cube five times every day, no matter where you are on earth you bow down to your cube god at least five times every day
>>18785118Yea, the sooner you know that 90% of people debating Islam and religion in general are disingenuous, the sooner you will realise why
>>18784970Arabs used to worship a whole bunch of different cubes, until Ahmad said to only worship that one.
>>18785232Was there a battle between different sects worshiping different cubes? sounds interesting
Cube worshipres are being real quiet and afraid to discuss their religion.
>>18784972>Muslim here. If you acknowledge and accept that Christians are idolaters that worship an actual human manYou do that too.
>>18785535You worship two gods, one you call Allah and the other Mohammed.
>>18785529Nta, but you do that too jew boy, you worship shekels. Can see that nose through the screen. Hahaha
>>18785540are Allah, Mohammed and The Ka'aba your holy trinity?
>>18785546They're 3 persons in one indivisible essence, where the kaaba spirates from the monarchia of the allah
>>18785546now will you stop killing palestinian children? do they have to renounce islam under the naohide laws, to not incur the death penalty of the jew demon? or are you from the cult of his raped rabbi son?
>>18784972>>18784979Even in troll threads Muslims can't do anything but whataboutismI would love to see a Muslim have to defend Islam on its own merits but they never ever can. It's always a tu quoque.
God lives in the cubeJews have the same idea but it's the holy of holies in Jerusalem for them
>>18785890Never really understood why they love to whatabout when they put as much emphasis on Muhammad to the point that it may as well be idolation bordering on placing him above everything. Even the Shahada itself demands that you may as well not believe in God if you don't believe that Muhammad was his messenger.
>>18786141>Even the Bible itself explains that you may as well not believe in God if you don't believe that Jesus was his Son.
>>18786167It's just Dawah faggotry that I've seen. It's very jarring from an outsider's point of view to see a group of people go about telling how they worship the one true God and nobody else and everyone else is wrong in their worship while also elevating the messenger to such an extreme that it's just one degree away from equalizing him.
>>18784970IT IS NOT A CUBE BUT WHAT IS INSIDE THE CUBE! It is a MAGICAL ROCK THAT IS WORSHIPPED! The cube just contains the magical rock. It’s like a special house that the magical rock lives in. For any stupid mayo monkey whiteoids that think Arabs can’t invent anything, the rock is proof that they invented the pet rock centuries before stupid whiteoids. The rock is named al-Hajar al-Aswad and it has a nice silver setting that protects it. Stupid whiteoids call it the black stone on zogpedia.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
>>18786141And how is that wrong? How can you truly believe in God when you don't believe in those he has sent for you? Were the Israelites free to disbelieve in their prophets too?>>18786060Muslim don't believe God is contained by creation, so no he doesn't live in the cube. He's above the throne which is itself the zenith of creation.>>18785890You people don't know how to argue. There is a difference between pointing out personal hypocrisy and cognitive hypocrisy. The latter is a consistency argument and it is actually a valid strategy in attacking the original claim while the former is just a thinly veiled ad hominem.
>>18786187>And how is that wrong?It's wrong when you start whining and running polemical attacks against Christians for elevating Christ for the same thing Islam may as well be guilty of doing with Muhammad.
>>18786191>the same thingI haven't heard of any self-professed Muslim calling Muhammad and Allah the same being without getting immediately excommunicated by basically every faction in the faith. I have heard of Christians calling Jesus and God the same being without getting excommunicated, in fact that is the mainstream position. This is just not analogous
>>18786200>Muhammad is a superhuman in our religion who is so special that his name is inscribed in the throne of God and he can intercede for all of humanity when everyone else can't in the end times among other things and he was definitely blameless and sinless and whenever he makes mistakes he wasn't divinely punished like the Judaic prophets and was only given stern warnings>.....but what we do is not like how Christians elevated Jesus!!!Dawahs. Not even once.
>>18786212Prophets are given the ability to perform extraordinary things and special roles/titles this doesn't make them deities and it seems like you have no actual argument for that too.>what we do is not like how Christians elevated JesusYes, Christians call Jesus God, we call Muhammad a slave of Allah
>>18786217Right but my point doesn't concern Muhammad being elevated to a divine figure but that Dawahs ( and Muslims ) elevated Muhammad to the point of being a superhuman who was infallible and could do no harm and sin while attacking the Christians for doing the same thing as you do.
>>18786224>Right but my point doesn't concern Muhammad being elevated to a divine figureThen your attack makes no sense. Most Christians are guilty of Shirk, that is the issue we have with them. Not that Jesus was "superhuman". Moses was also extremely strong according to us (seemingly even more than the angel of Death) so why don't we accuse the Jews of turning him into a God? You already pointed out how we believe the prophet had shortcomings, and he for sure wasn't infallible outside of matters to do with religion. Can Christians say the same? No, so in no sense are we doing the same things as them
>>18786236>so why don't we accuse the Jews of turning him into a God?You posting a hadith doesn't make sense because Jews don't believe in it. Why you would put the Jews against something they don't believe in is beyond me.>he for sure wasn't infallible outside of matters to do with religionSo why elevate and justify the things he did outside of the religion as holy? You can't claim that he was just a regular guy outside of the religion when Islam made it a point that everything he did inside and out must be emulated.>No, so in no sense are we doing the same things as themIt's functionally is the same. Your just arguing based on the label.
>>18786173They are also drunk on taqiyya, so know one truly knows if they are talking to inebriated spirits, or Muhammad.
>>18786246>Jews don't believe in it.Yes they do?>You can't claim that he was just a regular guy outside of the religion when Islam made it a point that everything he did inside and out must be emulated.We believe the sunnah is revelation but even we don't say this. How many scholars today say that we should be riding horses and camels for example?>Your just arguing based on the label.Believing someone to be literally God in the flesh is different from saying they are a slave of God. This is not just a labeling issue and I am not sure why you have such a hard time understanding this.
>>18784972Pre-Islamic VenerationBefore the rise of Islam, the Kaaba in Mecca served as the central polytheistic and animist sanctuary for various Arabian Bedouin tribes.• Pre-Islamic Context: Long before the rise of Islam, the Black Stone was already venerated as a sacred object (baetyl) by Arab tribes who visited the KaabaThe Black Stone (al-Hajar al-Aswad) was held in deep reverence as a sacred object and baetyl (aniconic sacred stone) in pre-Islamic Arabia long before the advent of Islam• In pre-Islamic Mecca, the Kaaba functioned as a central pagan sanctuary housing hundreds of tribal idols and focal points of worship, with the Black Stone serving as a prominent focal feature.>Idols and Deities: The sanctuary housed roughly 360 pagan idols. The chief Meccan deity was Hubal (a moon/weather god), alongside major goddesses such as al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, plus paintings and sculptures of angels, Abraham (Ibrahim), and Jesus (Isa) with Mary (Maryam).• Pilgrimage and Devotion: Pre-Islamic Arab tribes—including the Nabataeans and various regional groups—visited the Kaaba annually. Devotional acts included circumambulating the structure (Tawaf), touching or kissing the stone (Istilam) to seek blessings, offering sacrifices, and viewing the stone as a spiritual presence or witness to oaths and fertility rites.After the Conquest of Mecca in 630 CE, Muhammad cleared the idols from the Kaaba and rededicated the shrine strictly to the worship of AllahMuhammad cleansed the Kaaba of its pagan idols, the Black Stone was retained
>>18786259According to Islamic tradition, the Black Stone (Al-Hajar al-Aswad) is a sacred object of celestial origin Origins in Islamic Tradition• Descent from Paradise: Islamic prophetic narrations (hadiths) state that the Black Stone came down directly from Paradise (Jannah).• Original Appearance: According to tradition recorded in sources like Tirmidhi, the stone was originally dazzling white—described as "whiter than milk" or snow—before turning black.• The Blackening: The stone's current dark color is traditionally believed to be the result of absorbing the sins of the children of Adam who have touched or kissed it.• Connection to Adam and Abraham: • One tradition holds that the stone was given to Adam after his expulsion from Paradise to help him seek forgiveness or serve as a cornerstone for an early altar. During the Great Flood in the time of Noah, the stone was lost or hidden on Mount Abu Qubays. • It was later rediscovered or brought back by the angel Jibreel (Gabriel) and handed to Ibrahim (Abraham) and his son Ismail (Ishmael) when they were commanded by God to rebuild the Kaaba. Ibrahim placed it into the eastern corner of the structure.
What is inside the cube
>>18786258>MidrashIt's not even canon to the Tanakh. Why you even posted and believed that all of Judaism believed in it the same way Muslims do with the Hadiths is beyond me >We believe the sunnah is revelation but even we don't say this. How many scholars today say that we should be riding horses and camels for example?My point is that Muslims treated even the mundane things he did as holy and emulatable. And you can't really say that he waa a regular guy outside of the religion when even his personal lifestyle and actions are treated with reverence.>Believing someone to be literally God in the flesh is different from saying they are a slave of God. This is not just a labeling issue and I am not sure why you have such a hard time understanding this.Again, nobody here is saying that Muhammad is God. All I'm saying is that dawahs constantly accuse Christians of shirk while giving a human pre-existence on God's throne, total sinlessness, and sole end-times intercession is functionally the exact same elevation under a different label.
Shortly before dawn, Jesus went out to them, hovering like a mother bird above the churning waters. When the disciples saw him levitating around so much chaos, they were terrified. “It’s a glaring ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I.”Some of his most submissive disciples thought that he meant liquid courage, so they began to drink taquila to stay alive.They got so drunk on taquila, that not one of them could tell if they were talking to inebriated spirits, or Muhammad.A viking was also there at the stern of the ship, and he saw Jesus turn into ice. Because if this, He was able to walk upon the surface of the sea.
>>18786259• The Qarmatian Theft: In 930 CE, Abu Tahir al-Qarmati (906–944 CE), ruler of the Qarmatian state in Bahrain and Eastern Arabia (923-944 CE) raided Mecca, desecrated the sanctuary, and stole the Black Stone, taking it to Bahrain for over 20 years >Military Raids: He led destructive raids on major Islamic cities, attacking Basra in 923 and 927, Kufa in 926 and 927, and threatening Baghdad by 928>The Sack of Mecca (930 CE): During the Hajj season in 930 CE, Abu Tahir led an infamous assault on Mecca. His forces massacred thousands of pilgrims (estimated between 20,000 and 30,000) and plundered the Kaaba The stone was eventually ransomed and returned, though it had broken into pieces.• Current Structure: Today, the Black Stone is fragmented into multiple small pieces held together by a heavy silver frame mounted on the exterior wall of the Kaaba.
>>18786261Just some columns and a table. Very nice interior. The Kaaba is a house meant for God, a kind of throne room so to speak. To Muslims, praying before the Kaaba is like a servant bowing before his king's throne.
>>18786267>claims they don't believe it>show that they do>b-but it's not in the bible!And? They aren't sola scriptura protestant autists. It's a fact that they have that teaching in their religious tradition. The oral Torah also says that the angel of death had no sway in his demise (one of a handful of humans who gets this privilege), he gets protected from angelic attacks by God when he gets the written Torah, etc. The fact of the matter is Moses even according to them is "super human" according to the standards you have set>My point is thatYou aren't addressing what I have said. He tells us himself that he isn't infallible in every matter. Also I am not sure what your problem is with us having an example derived from the life of prophets. The companions themselves are also to be emulated, to a much lower degree of course but still.>dawahs constantly accuse Christians of shirkBecause Christians are guilty of shirk according to the Quran and the prophet? They literally worship a human being and call him God, they turn their Rabbis and Monks into Lords, etc.>while giving a human pre-existence on God's throneNo human exists since eternity past and the throne itself is created. Only God is eternal. >total sinlessnessYou mean like all prophets? They merely have shortcomings.>and sole end-times intercession is functionally the exact same elevation under a different labelAccording to hadith people will ask the other prophets first to beg Allah to start the judgment. And again Jesus is the only one that will come back and is given a Messianic role, he will judge by Allah's laws. Does that make him God too according to Muslims? Exclusive roles and actions during the end times don't make someone God. Believing he is omniscient, omnipotent, capable of answering your prayers and the source for all your halal and haram is what actually elevates someone to the same level as God
Fun fact: There's a Heavenly Kaaba in the 7th Heaven which the angels circumvent.
>>18786746Spoiler: It's Saturn.
>>18784970>Muslims worship a cubeThat's what the atheists' intellect allow them to understand about Islam.So pathetic...
>>18784970Muslims will have cope answers, while the truth its simple: It was the main idol of the Mecca and to bargain the local elites to join Islam Muhammad made up a story how the stone was actually a relic of Abraham/Ismael that thousands of years of ignorance made people think it was a idol of local God, and turned the very profitable pagan pilgrimage to Mecca into a Islamic pilgrimage
>>18787311>worships the cube five times each day>claims not to be retarded and an idolater lol
>>18784970Baetyl's are aniconic Gods. The one in the Kaaba was likely the pre-Islamic God Hubal. Many pre-Islamic traditions were co-opted by Muslims: "ackhully Abraham built this". This is literally just Hubal worship
>>18787311>atheistsIt can't be them because they don't care about idolatry at all. There are only two main culprits here, butthurt dharmics (hindpoop mainly) and paulians. It also can't be joos because they believe we are not idolaters. In fact that's why it is permissible for them to worship in a mosque but not in a church
let's analyze the black stone and see if it actually came from "jannah", lol. no chance right.
>>18787550It came from the heavens, it's a meteorite anon
>>18787551yeah there are millions of them. if we analyze it i'm sure we can find similar ones. but that will never happen.
>>18787520Well one of those posters is actually a judaic, with a sore bum about maimonides.
