Realistically, is there any way the Confederates could've won the Civil War?
Yes, if Lee’s invasions of the north were successful and he was able to take the federal government hostage he could have forced them at gunpoint to recognize the confederacy
If they were actually good at diplomacy and got Britain or France to intervene for them
If the confederates dug in and prepared to fight a lengthy war of attrition and guerrilla warfare they may have forced the Union to accept a ceasefire. However this would take years of pain and misery far exceeding that of the war in reality. They wanted a quick victory as imagined by >>18787417 . However even if Lee achieved an Alexander/Napoleon tier victory and took Washington, the north would still possess an overwhelming advantage in both men and industry and a slight advantage technologically while the government could easily flee north.The idea the south was arrogant enough to believe it could win through sheer dixie spirit is a myth, they were well aware of their military disadvantages. Their hope was to shock the north enough to prompt political change and a ceasefire. Indeed the north was divided, they too felt the pain of total war and many were suspicious of the mass mobilization. Near the end of the war they were fighting more to gain favorable terms of surrender and prove that the north does not have absolute power to impose "reconstruction", indeed reconstruction was thwarted and the confederacy continued as a shadow government, the "solid south".
>>18787469>If the confederates dug in and prepared to fight a lengthy war of attrition and guerrilla warfare they may have forced the Union to accept a ceasefireNo they couldn’t lol. A long war was not an option for the south, the longer the war went on, the tighter the anaconda around their neck
>>18787470The war of 1812 saw the total defeat of the conventional military forces of the United States yet the British did not annex the whole country. Why? Because there were still millions of Americans in the hinterlands taking pot shots at redcoats and baggage trains with their hunting rifles. As long as Americans were moralized into resisting the British it was not possible, thus the British saw more advantage negotiating with the Americans, returning Washington and relieving themselves of the expense of the war.Similarly if the Confederacy had the will to endure medieval conditions and resist the Union forever, like Switzerland, Afghanistan or some other country in the old world faced with totally foreign invaders, they could do so. The ports and key points the Union took would be rendered worthless because the countryside isn't producing anything of worth for them to trade. It would turn into a battle of wills. A factor oft overlooked in military history.
>>18787500Reddit memes are not reality
>>18787469>If the confederates dug in and prepared to fight a lengthy war of attritionyeah a war of attrition would've worked wonders for the side with no industry no food no people>guerrilla warfarein the 1860s lmao
>>18787414>the deadliest war in American history was about niggersMutts are never defeating the allegations
>>18787506This is reality, seethe.
>>18787440they lost any hope of european intervention when aiding the south was seen as tantamount to supporting the institution of slavery which they had already outlawed and dismantled in foreign lands by military force at times.
>>18787469>>18787440Two fronts would rape Union in war of attrition
>>18787513They were on the defensive. Every confederate fort that had to be taken would inflict horrifying casualties on the Union soldiers with minimal resources, especially if ample resources were diverted for that express purpose.>in the 1860s lmaoYou don't need ak47s to wage guerilla warfare, it has been a thing since time immemorial.
>>18787469There wasn’t universal support for the war in the North, an anti-war candidate won 40% against Lincoln in 1864. If Lee had taken Washington I can totally see people saying fuck it and letting the South secede.
>>18787500>the British did not annex the whole country. Why?America had already shown that it could not be efficiently taxed, and didn't really have an economy worth integrating back into the British empire at that point.
>>18787754>Every confederate fort that had to be taken would inflict horrifying casualties on the Union soldiers with minimal resources, especially if ample resources were diverted for that express purpose.Didn't happen that way in real life Civil war sieges. You can't turtle in a fort IRL when your soldiers have to eat and be resupplied.
If anything had gone even slightly different, yes. The border states successfully seceding would've been an easy win; victories at Shiloh and Gettysburg could've been pretty big too. The Northern war effort was extremely fragile compared to the South's and almost broke down entirely in 1864.
>>18788020Also, just not firing on Ft. Sumter would've been the easiest way to win. Without playing into Lincoln's hands there, he would've never had the political capital to illegally wage war without the approval of Congress. No one except a few abolitionist madmen from New England would have agreed to fight the war if they knew it was going to lead to 800k dead.
>>18787414If during the first year after Bull Run they had been cohesive enough to make a push for D.C. they could have forced a political settlement due to a combination of demoralization/panic and the north not having been as radicalized against slavery yet (and a lot of middle staters in places like New York and Maryland being anti war in general. However once this moment passed and the Northern citizenry and political class became sufficiently motivated through some early northern victories and the war came to be seen as essentially a Holy War, the Confederates lost any hope of a political victory. And that was their one shot because they never had a chance to win through pure military means.
>>18788025Don't invaded Kentucky and focus control on Missouri too
>>18787414Very easily.I mean if there simply were a Republican president without Lincoln's insistence of maintaining the Union, the Confederates could have gotten a brokered peace around 1863.And if Lee were able to quickly threaten Washington City (wasn't called DC in the 1860s) then even Lincoln may have been forced to negotiate.This would definitely mean the CSA abandoning their claims to western Virginia, Kentucky, and Missouri, and possibly even some concessions in Tennessee or the west. But the South weren't facing some impossible odds.All they needed was to convince the Republicans in the new administration that it prolonging the war wouldn't be worth keeping the southern states. In many ways I think it was a far easier war for the South than the Revolutionary War was for the Americans.
Speaking of the South, is it true that the slave patrols was mandatory for Southern citizens? The more I read about antebellum south the more I can't tell if it really was that retarded or if I'm falling for northern propaganda.
>>18788006Which civil war sieges involved waiting for the occupants to run out of supplies?The siege of Petersburg took 9 months and the assaults cost the Union twice as many soldiers and this was near the tail end of the war and burdened with encompassing Petersburg, not a holdout in the hinterlands. Failed assaults could see 10 to 20 attackers killed for every defender. The Union had more men, but not that much more.
>>18788051>In many ways I think it was a far easier war for the South than the Revolutionary War was for the Americans.People who say this somehow always seem to think theres no difference between waging a war across a vast ocean and one fought across a shared indefensible land border.
>>18788055You definitely following Yankees propaganda
Low probability but if they managed to not lose the west and Lee managed to pull off some crazy shit like encircling Washington or winning another two or three Fredericksburg-tier victories to kill morale in the north then the confederates could have squeezed a favorable peace deal.
>>18788055I really was that retarded (and vile). It's obvious in hindsight, there's no way to make people work for free without excessive violence. Would you do someone's work for free without being forced too? The minute you let up the evil and cruelty is the minute the slaves stop working.
>>18788051>1801 – Organic Act of the District of Columbia>Congress formally organized the District of Columbia under federal control. By this point, “Washington, D.C.” was the standard designation. The combined name distinguishes the capital from Washington State, which was admitted much later (1889).IT WAS D.C (Batman and Flash time travel)
>>18787414>how could hitler have won the war>how could the confederates have won the warWhy is /his/ like this? every time you come here its either that or some retarded thread about religion.
>>18788061Ask the janitor
>>18788061Yeah I completely get that in terms of the slaves. I'm mainly talking about the white southerners. Like the more I read about antebellum south the more it just comes off like a more fucked up Gilded Age. Like it wasn't simply an issue of slavery but just a full slave monopoly that leeched and dominated the south to the point that most of the whites weren't even benefiting from the racist system at all and in some cases living worse than the actual slaves.
>>18788065>HitlerYou mean Union soldier died in 1862?
>>18787414Here’s my top picks>Kentucky joins the Confederacy, adding another state with industrial output comparable to Virginia to the Southern cause and blocking any Union attempts to invade the Middle and Deep South>Union forces don’t find Order 191 and McClellan doesn’t have the intelligence he felt that he needed to make a move against Lee. As a result he either hesitates and permits the Army of Northern Virginia to run roughshod across Maryland and Pennsylvania or is pressured into engaging Lee in far less advantageous conditions and loses. In either case, the Emancipation Proclamation gets delayed and Anglo-French recognition of the Confederacy becomes far more likely.>Stonewall Jackson’s II Corps launches its flank attack on Chancellorsville much earlier in the day and succeeds in completing a the link up with Lee (at one point Sickles’ III Corps, yes THAT Sickes, was the only thing separating the two). Around half of the Army of the Potomac is now completely encircled. If the Confederates can stop any breakout attempts, they stand a decent chance of wiping out the pocket. With over half of the Army of the Potomac gone, what’s left is not only forced to retreat from Virginia (again), but now there’s no mobile forces capable of stopping a Confederate advance on Washington. Even if Lee were to do nothing, the mere threat that he might do something forces the redeployment of Union troops from other fronts like Vicksburg, causing those offensives to run out of steam, likely for the rest of the year.>Longstreet is given command of the Army of Tennessee in the Spring of 1864 and manages to bring some of the ANV’s magic to the West. By November, Atlanta remains in Confederate hands, the Union Army is at best locked in grueling sieges on two fronts, and appears no closer to victory than at the start of the year. Lincoln loses reelection and the war with it.
>>18788066Janitor still gets paid. We can argue about better economic systems or minimum wages and so on, but in the end he is still working in exchange for something.
>>18787414Yes, but only a short war due to southern reliance on imports, lack of materials, lack of industry, and lack of manpower. Victory basically relies on them crushing union morale in two years or less. To do this, sacking DC or winning battles like crazy. This could happen. Didn't though.
>>18787513"Guerilla war" (Spanish for little war) was popularized during the peninsular war in 1810. That was a napoleonic campaign, every officer in the Civil War would know of it and what it entails, as well as how to conduct it
>>18788216>Forgive me Chichi-
>>18788248U.S also fought grueling hit & run tactic by Natives in Florida (1813-1855)
>>18787513Guerrilla war as a term originates from even earlier you dumb fuck
