>they take at most a few weeks before you're as good with them as any other tablet
This doesn't hold for every human being, and even then "a few weeks" requires a lot of patience which not that many artists have. Plenty of pros use screenless tablets.

>>7977392
There are pros and cons to each.
In general I'd recommend screenless ones (medium or bigger) for the better ergonomics and that they are cheaper. Plenty of pros started with screenless and still use it (Craig Mullins, FZD just off the top of my head). If you're drawing 10+ hours a day, it's way better for your health.
A lot of people can't get over the disconnected feeling of screenless tablets. If you do a lot of linework, display tablets are better for that so it will save you time in the long run. Just keep in mind you need more dedicated desk space, a stand or monitor arm etc. to have good posture while using it. So it ends up costing even more.
And for convenience & portability, standalone tablets like iPads are better for that.

Artists can be very autistic about their tools.

>>7977392
As somebody with both a screenless and display tablet there are reasons to like both. Inking is faster and more intuitive on a display, and the pens tend to be higher quality with sturdier builds and lower a activation force. You can also turn off the display and convert it to a screenless tablet so it's like a 2-in-1. I prefer sketching on a screenless tablet though because there's no input lag, and I
get to have room on my desk for traditional art when I don't have a huge screen right in the middle of it. So really it's about what you're willing to put up with. I personally say have both and switch between them depending on what you need ATM but that's not really feasible for everyone.

It simply doesn't feel right.

I just hate drawing on a smooth plastic surface. With a screenless tablet you can customize the surface texture. I always put a sheet of paper on mine.

>>7977433
the textured screen protectors are pretty good these days. reduces the picture quality of the display a bit. but higher end models have etched glass which feels good to draw on already so you don't need one.

>>7977392
>few weeks
It's more like a few months to a year. But you can always go for display tablet and then switching to screenless years later would only take a few days at most

go back >>>/ic/dtg

>>7977392
meanwhile the pros I see use cheapest shit that has lasted them over a decade
the ones with expensive stuff are "pros" with sponsorships

>>7977433
after 5 years i dont care about the surface
i used to care about it a lot, but after buying a titanium nib like years ago, i dont care neither about the tablet surface nor the pen

>>7977392
this back and neck problem seems to be display tablet exclusive injury because i dont remember ever seeing traditional artist complained when they have to draw or render or hatch their stuff for hours with the same exact sitting gesture as digital artist

>>7977480
Useless general. Every single general based on products on this site just devolves into jeets and chinks trying to shill their favorite company to every single person

>>7977392
>Why do pros use expensive $1000+ tablets when something like this would be cheaper and much better for their health in the long run?
Retard tax.

>>7977392
>and they take at most a few weeks before you're as good with them as any other tablet,
never worked for me, no matter how many weeks the connection was never made, so i bought a screen tablet, the learning curve on that was a few minutes.

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>>7977524
it's a
>i'm going to spend hundreds of dollars on a screen tablet, but 50 bucks for an adjustable stand is too expensive for me
injury
don't hunchback of notre-dame your cintiq

>>7977392
It's not bad for your health. There's such a thing as an arm desk attachment.

>>7977392
>Why do pros use expensive $1000+ tablets
Your YouTube e-celebs are not pros.

>>7977658
Only retards and housewives draw on a pathetically sub-par tool like an iPad. I get if you're taking into it to scribble, but having it as your main tool is mental retardation.

>>7977392
Theirs plenty of good artists that use screenless tablets but the idea that they are more ergonomic is a meme, largely because ergonomics in general is a meme. Get a good chair and don't stay in one position for hours at a time and you'll be fine (a standing desk is a decent investment too.) Looking down slightly won't fuck up your back.

>>7977740
Retard

>>7977794
Retard

>>7977802
You have no idea how ergonomics or injuries work, stop giving advice based on something you have 0 knowledge about

>>7977806
And yet you have zero rebuttal. You fell for a marketing buzzword, try again next time.

>>7977392
I have this exact tablet and I acn't even draw a straight line with it. it feels like trying to draw on stone and somehow control pressure when its slipping all over the place.

>>7977392
Because screenless is obviously just worse. Duh.

Just search for animation studio tours on youtube and every video made after 2012 will have a display tablet at every desk. These people draw like 18 hours a day and the studios themselves have to pay easily over 10x more for each display tablet which they absolutely would not do if they were provably worse.

>>7977392
I just get more accurate lines with a mouse. A thick and heavy gamer mouse.

it's easier to buy an ipad air and apple pencil, essentially. most artists don't care about their health or their health is already fucked up and it's better to pick up a pencil than a slab. honestly artist's health is an undertalked topic, i honestly remember only sinix talking about it back in the day. if not for osufags screenless tablets would be a dying breed. osufags have intimate knowledge of screenless tablets, what they do to their tablets with that intimate knowledge scares me. ideally, an artist should have both a screenless and a screened tablet if you ask me. there are times when your fat nubs should block some of the screen and times when it shouldn't do that at all.

>>7977658
Keywords: "I've been using iPad for years"
It is easier to go screenless if you've been drawing for a while

>>7977392
I generally don't like tablets, they've been so glidy and hard to control compared to a mouse and it feels weird with the way pressure sensitivity works.

I personally have always used screenless tablets. I absolutely dislike the feeling of the screen under the pencil tip, though it seems it's what users of screen tablets are researching. That more similar feeling to using paper/having the drawing directly under your hand and not on the screen in front of them.
It also requires good motor skills and coordination, and takes a little more time to really get good at using it (especially when you're young, but then when you're adult you already have your habits). And people don't really like changing their habits.

While it's likely just a skill issue on my part there's just something about screenless tablets that fuck with my head and I can't work with the pen and the actual stuff it's doing being in two different places.

>>7979658
>While it's likely just a skill issue on my part
reddit post on your part.

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idk, aside from neck/back issues, i find having my arm constantly in the air would also hurt my shoulder.

thats why a large-sized screenless tablet is better. it honestly didnt take me more than 3 hours of drawing boxes and shapes to get adjusted to hand-eye coordination when i first got mine.

>>7977392
Arguing over who uses what tablet might be the most retarded shit ever. Who gives a fuck? I always hated these threads and the tablet thread. What a waste.

>>7977392
>The only people I've seen use these tablets are beginners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpJP8jg5Fck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTcLiDOiqq8

>>7978942
>ipad air and apple pencil
More expensive than anything except a Cintiq Pro and the 27-inch models from the Chink companies

>>7979658
Just use it for longer your brain will get used to it

>>7980225
now post an professional artist working in an actual creative studio. 9 times out of 10 they will be shilling their workflow with display tablets

You're all so fucking close to realizing it. IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. USE WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU. IF YOU WORK BEST ON A RINKY DINK 10 YEAR OLD 70 DOLLAR SCREENLESS TABLET, THEN WHO GIVES A FUCK???

>>7977658
>3 years of drawing just to have that level
Lmao permabegs are truly real.

>>7980887
The second channel posted of that video is of a professional artist who was making Yu-Gi-Oh cards over 20 years ago and now makes figurines and shit

>>7977426
Wait, so display tablets have input lag even when being used like a screenless?

>>7977392
Why do people use 2000 dollar phones when 200 dollar ones do the job just fine?

>>7984276
I genuinely don't get this one. They say "oh but you're not a POWER USER"
Mother fuckers you're not either you just use social media like everyone else.

obsessing over tools is not a good thing
if you get a random tablet on the market, chances are high that they are more than fine for everyone

>>7989398
I personally don't get the hate for ipads or the apple pencil. They're fine for most people.

>>7989400
i'd say great even, more than fine obviously
i mean, a multi-trillion dollar company pouring billions on research on one of their best selling products, they need to be at least decent
i know this argument is kind of crooked, but you know
you can easily find pro or semi-pro who uses ipad on any social media

in my experience i find doing lineart on a screenless tablet basically impossible. i drew on a screenless tablet for about 10 years and when i finally got a screen tablet just to see what the hype was about the most noticable difference was that i suddenly wasnt dogshit at lineart. ofc you shouldnt buy an art device thinking "this will make me good at art", but that genuinely was my experience. i used to hate doing digital lineart and now i love it

>>7977392
I've had one of those for about 25 years and let me tell you the learning curve of not being able to see what you are drawing and looking at the screen is not something i'd recommend. It takes forever and when you stop you have to get back that "feel" again.

On the other hand a screen tablet is easier but also harder to navigate than paper. I'd still recommend people stick to classic carts before they fuck around and waste money on these things.

You will not gain any advantage by drawing/painting digitally and a lot of your retard flaws will show through even if you can constantly erase shit. Sure color can be an advantage but overall these things are a crutch to fundamentals with classic tools

Please do yourselves a favor and stick to classic stuff like paper, pencil, pen, paint etc.

>>7984270
not in my experience. they do have the annoying behavior of losing calibration and you must constantly fucking calibrate the pen or it's off the point (unless you sprung for a fucking wacom in which case good luck with your credit card payments).

>>7977392
monkey see flashy expensive gear
monkey do mental gymnastic to tell monkey they need it

>>7989407
it's the opposite for me, i hate how the pen i'm drawing with block a portion of what i'm drawing, especially if it's where the line needs to go

>>7977392
I started with screenless and eventually moved to screen. I like being able to draw faster because I can just put the pen exactly where I want to draw the line, instead of moving around like a mouse until it looks right on the other screen. I also have mine set up at like a 60 degree incline, so it almost feels like drawing on a canvas and I don't bust my neck/back looking down.

uh oh... I just dug out my old screenless tablet after and I was actually enjoying it

>>7989869
My mental gymnastics were "a screentablet is like drawing on paper as you're actually looking where you're drawing, so those skills are actually REAL drawing skills"

I think deep down I've always known it was an uncomfortable bitch of an experience to use a screen tablet - but now I've just been drawing for the past hour just laid back looking up at my monitor, no hand in the way of what I'm drawing.

Maybe this has been a contributing factor to my lack of drive since I bought that thing - discomfort is a real motivation killer at the end of the day

>>7990588
>I like being able to draw faster because I can just put the pen exactly where I want to draw the line, instead of moving around like a mouse until it looks right on the other screen.
This isn't a problem for me. I didn't even think about it or realize until I read this. My hand-eye coordination through the screenless tablet is perfect, I can look at my monitor and put the pen in the exact place I want. This is a problem with the person, not the device.

Do people really struggle with coordination on screenless? I started with one, and it took only a day or two for my brain to calibrate itself. I assumed that, if you've used amouse for any stretch of time, you can use a tablet just fine with the same skills.

>>7977392
>as good with them as any other tablet
I've used both cintiq and intuos. Cintiq is definitely better to draw on. You can still create nice pictures with intuos but it's just awkward to draw nice lines with it unless you use stabilizer of course.

>>7977392
>Why do pros...
What do you mean by "pros"? The youtube gifting BEG faggots sowing off their "sick setups" and selling new tablets in every video? Those ain't no fucking "professionals". Those are grifters desperately trying to make a buck out of wacom, adobe or any other random chink tablet brand. They are forced to use screen tablets, to show them off on camera and keep the branding relevant.
Real professionals working in lonely offices with no streaming setup and cameras, but actually buried in production material, those won't be using shit that isn't absolutely necessary, or that is a disadvantage to their workflow. Also spending a fortune on a clunky gigantic piece of equipment that does the same job than a cheap and simple piece of flat plastic is not a small deal for a pro who struggles to make ends meet in the real world. Pro Screen tablets can costs THOUSANDS of dollars, in today's economy that's out of the question, and also a big fucking risk if that shit decides to malfunction once the product warranty period has ended. Screenless tablets can work for decades, to do the same job, and you can replace them in a second for even cheaper used ones no problem. Try your luck buying a used screen tablet, no fucking way.

>>7977392
Screenless only if you have two monitors. I started screenless and everytime I had to draw from reference I had to keep going back and forth between windows to look at my reference. (No, putting the reference in a small window was not an option, it made it too fucking small even in a 27 inch monitor)

Once I got my first display tablet the real game-changer was not being able to directly draw on the screen, that was just okay, the real game-changer was that I could put a reference on my main monitor and just look at it while drawing on my tablet. A blessing from God.

>>7984270
No that was in reference to using the display mode. Using screenless mode shouldn't be laggy unless something is wrong with your tablet

>>7977392
>>7977392
>poorfags
This.
Dude these things are shit my Wacom is smaller then my monitor the options are
1) Stretch to the whole screen = increases your hand shakes

2) Create a region on your screen that this can interact with = strange as FUCK

Do not forget that this Wacom shit also can stretch itself vertically creating strange errors.

And this is Wacom it's official drivers on windows you expect better this shit is a waste if money buy a screen, draw on tablet or phone or paper

>>7995570
>Dude, things are shit, strange as FUCK, Wacom shit, shit is a waste
you are obviously a low IQ moron considering that you speak like dumb teenager. opinion discarded lol what a waste of effort. why would i trust anything you have to say when the words you use make you sound stupid?