How do I design characters that appeal to men, other than just making the women really curvy - that part I already know.I'm working on a project and want to make sure there's enough for the male audience to chew on. I'm already good at appealing to women.
>>7982390Bob and Vagene
>>7982390it doesn't take much, just draw women with a lot of skins showing.
>>7982391I know that! It's at the top of my list.
>>7982390I'm not training your AI, Anthropic employee.
>>7982390Every man wants one or more of the following>to fuck his mom>to fuck his sister>to fuck his daughter >to fuck a guy (but as an attractive woman)>to fuck an alienUse these as templates for creating characters. Like "daughter" isn't necessarily literal, and can be used as the basis for a female character who is missing both her hands and relies on the male self insert character to do everything. In the same vein, an alien can mean a tentacle woman, an emotionless robot woman or a black woman.
women and effeminates will never get this
>>7982416too unrealistic
>>7982418yeah, that's the point
>>7982413You've made me think, Anon. Let's go through this...>Attraction to a figure with power over you; a desire to overturn, or else embrace.>Attraction to a figure that's taboo; a desire to break a long-standing rule>Attraction to a figure that you have power over; a desire to excise that power, or else, give the full range of physical "comforts" to someone you care for>Attraction to a friendly figure; a desire to break through the platonic line into something deep and passionate>Attraction to the unfamiliar; all of the above relationships are based on familiar things, so the final category is an attraction to the strange and alienThat makes sense.
>>7982390Slutty clothing should be top of the list.It can be subtle or full stripperific but there should be something about the character's outfit that communicates "I want to fuck"Everything else is just body type preferences and specific fetishes.
>>7982390>other than just making the women really curvysometimes its not even this since not every guy likes his women thicc
>>7982390I like to see short skirts and lots of makeup on a girl. Works 100% of the time
>>7982390One of the main things is in the details. Certain lines and suggestions trigger the right neurons. Men are perverted in vast/diverse ways, so you need to narrow your focus. It does not need to be really curvy. A thin flat girl can trigger all the right neurons with the right lines.Here's a random example. The small concave of the socks pressed against the thigh, the lines on the crotch, the tummy lighting/shadow, etc... All details of neuron triggering.
>>7982390Poost art anon, I want to see what you have
>>7982390You are not appealing to the male gaze, you are appealing to the jeet and subhuman gaze.
>>7982390Men's tastes are a lot more varied than most women realize. You can't go wrong with the classic small waist, wide hips, long shimmering hair, etc -- but men could also go for fat women, flat women, any race or size, it doesn't really matter. For some men the "standard 10/10" hot women will leave them cold, but they'll randomly be really into an "average" looking woman because she just happens to have some feature that really appeals to them. Ditto for "archetypes" -- men could be into submissive tradwives, or sadistic dominatrixes, or crazy yanderes (see picrel), or a gentle but stern mother figure, or tomboys, or anything in between. What appeals to one guy won't appeal to another.If I had to identify one theme that tied all the different fantasies together, I suppose it would be something like... a sense of security and certainty? Men feel like they have to constantly demonstrate their masculinity and competence to compete for women's attention; if they let the act drop and show their vulnerability, she might end up not being attracted to him anymore. A woman saying "you don't have to worry, I'm committed to you for life, even if you fail it's ok because I'm not going anywhere" is the ultimate male dream. Of course he doesn't want to feel like he's being PITIED either -- usually this is paired with a power fantasy of sorts where the guy simply is competent enough to win her affection legitimately. But having that underlying safety net where he feels like he's truly appreciated for "who he is" rather than what he can do or accomplish is still very comforting.
>>7982488This.Retards think all the meme shit they see on twitter is representative of what males like when in reality it's only the same 1000 people pushing their fetishes with the help of bot accounts.Also whoever uses male gaze unironically clearly is in feminist/tranny circles.
>>7982492It's a pretty useful term. Men and women are different, so there's things men want to see, and things women want to see. Unless you believe men and women are fundementally the same, which is a more wvke stance than feminism.
>a useful term>which is always used as a derogatory description>trying to describe what women would like is instantly met with hostility and accusations of misoginysm as per a previous thread on this board>"unless you are the strawman i make you out to be"and there you goWhat are you; 1 of the thousands or a tranny?
>>7982493The female gaze is more obsessed than the male gaze, we just see a good ass and that's it we move on, women hyper obsess with them. If you want to appeal to men you need to make someone or something to protect, something that keeps the dream alive. If you want to appeal to SEA/Jeet coomers then it doesn't really matter, they'll just fap to whatever.
>>7982399you're way overthinking several aspects which i guess does confirm your pussy. congratulations. anyway, smoking is incredibly hot and most people do not remotely care if a fictional character smokes unless theyre a 35 yo mom of two, aka not a male, aka not relevant. guys like fictional smokers, it's badass. of course if your entire cast are chainsmokers then that kind of becomes a ridiculous picture but i'm sure you can practice moderation and discretion. your bit about tattoos is also off and kind of funny too, there's a distaste for tattoos just as much as there clearly is a taste for it, meaning you can relegate these aspects to just one character. typically goths have tats so, there's your black lipstick girl. same with piercings, give the goth a piercing man. one area where men absolutely don't care to complain about are ear piercings and earrings, given it's very typical for a woman to have those. you can get creative and do helixes and shit. anyway truthfully i think you're off to a bad start here by trying to appeal to a demographic you don't even really understand--i dont know where the sharp teeth thing comes from, i know women who will go gaga over that but not men. i think you may want to stick with appealing to women given your confidence. well, cheers bitch
you discuss statistical truth about women pornographic consumption and they call you names.Meanwhile "women" make up their own fantasy scenarios about men and call you woke for telling them the truth.
>>7982497>If you want to appeal to SEA/Jeet coomers then it doesn't really matter, they'll just fap to whatever.Anon, they won't accept this because they already made up a whole reality in their heads and started to believe it.
i read the thread and all that would appeal to the male gaze is everything that would rather appeal to the female gaze
Read Yowa Yowa Sensei
>>7982486Kinna outing myself here, but take a looksie.Here's all my sketches where I'm deliberately trying to show off a certain character's body/faceI didn't mean anything by this thread, by the way - I really do just want to become a better artist, and knowing how to appeal to people is part of that. I've never socialized much with men or women.>>7982498I can only go off of my personal experiences, and I don't want this thread to be about me, so I'll take your word for it. I do overthink.
Shit I mean I guess it depends on what you want.If you wanna appeal to nothing but gooners just draw busty women showing skin.If you want to attract a somewhat more normal audience, simply represent a healthy relationship where the two people love each other dearly.Getting opinions on what the public likes from 4chan of all places is a horrible move though, trying to gather what most people enjoy from such an extremist corner of the internet is like trying to fish for tuna at the bottom of the mariana trench, rather, if you have irl male friends, ask them, hopefully they're normal well adjusted people.
>goreand this is who is trying to convince people what men like
>>7982528Pretty sure it's the opposite way aroundIt's someone trying to be convinced
>>7982529no yeah it's definitely the other way around, this guy is just actually, unironically and factually retarded
Lazy fucking foidPhilTomato gets it and she's a retard, youre just lazy and stupid.The male gaze is for males dumb bitch
>>7982520Ic Ic, hmmmmmmmmThe face is pretty unappealing for I would say since it has a manly feel to it (her eye in the top left is interesting though), the hairstyle doesn't help either.I would check on those aspects If you want to make her more appealing to the male gaze.If these pointers helped you into what to check specifically then its good. But any anon can refute this too.
>>7982390Men's tastes are very varied, >>7982413 has covered the gist of it but as you can probably surmise the first four are about fucking someone they believe they can trust while the fifth is fucking something so beyond alien, unpredictable and/or very powerful that they're absolutely thrilled that the creature in question wants the man's dick inside them or wants to take care of him, I think this applies to why men enjoy crazy girls as well. In the case of robot girls I think that applies to both extreme ends of the spectrum at least if the robot can display some degree of autonomy or personality (which is why men don't fuck cars but get hopelessly enamored with AI chatbots who bend over for every whim)The problem when the trust level is in the middle of the road is that (i.e. an actual stranger with complicated feelings and their own experiences) is that trust and power will be given but whether but the potential negative outcomes are just uncomfortable enough that they aren't sure if its worth it (maybe the alien thing is about the immediacy of trust from a powerful being?), I think this especially applies in recent time where there are men who avoid women now because they believe women are an unpredictable waste of time now and not in the fun crazy sense, as trust here also applies to trusting that negative outcomes will occur frequently.Obviously, it helps if the woman is very cute and/or sexy as well, but again very subjective. Finding out common anime archetypes is your best bet here, but in general men prefer long hair (except when going for the tomboy route) and... I don't know. Just don't make a complete bimbo and make sure not to make her disrespect a man. I mean, there's technically some degree of sass and playfulness you can run with but this is VERY hard to explain, you can probably just research female characters that terminally online men explicitly don't like.Men and women's tastes are remarkably similar if you think about it.
>>7982556wow i typed this like shit, i hate proofreadingbut yeah if you're catering to the male gaze/heart all you really have to do is make the girl predictable and also not make fun of things that men find valuable. Drama is a man's worst enemy (unless they're the ones with the power to stop it) and is never worth any sort of thrill that comes with it
>>7982541Appreciate the input!People do say I have a habit of making my women all look too much like men - I just draw men a lot more, so, it's a habit that's hard to break. And it seems the harder I try to make Mehitabel look feminine, the more she looks like a lesbian psycho. Which she isn't. She's a straight psycho.I'm trying to thread the "creepy" vibes and the attractive vibes. I want her to be almost zombie-like. As for her hair. . . tell me more about it! Why's it unappealing to you? It's based off of a certain cat character I'm a fan of. They even have the same name. I maybe didn't adapt it well.>>7982562>>7982556"Predictable" is gonna be a problem for her. But I'm mostly talking about design here, rather than personality - the two are entwined, but I like to take notes when I can.
>>7982567yeah I know you asked about design but I think you can see from most of the thread that many men jumped towards setting the personality first because it will heavily dictate how you design the character and their mannerisms that are visible from it. Frieren is a pretty good example of a character who appeals a lot to men even though she's not very gaze-y, most of it comes down to her personality which is also reflected on her design.When men like a crazy/unpredictable girl you really have to provide a bigger sense of unfamiliarity, but not in an uncomfortable psychological way, but rather weaving familiar and trustworthy traits with other design ideas that feel completely foreign. It's genuinely hard to explain, but as far as I remember men liked pic (Glory from Shadowrun Returns) but I never played it myself.Don't know if you're down for using manga as study material but if you want crazy and violent girls that appeal to men, Star Strike It Rich is VERY good at showing off what divides crazy girls as protagonists and crazy girls as antagonists, both in design and in personality. Even girls with similar design traits between the sides will have different skillsets which are great at making the antagonists look a lot more dangerous even to men.
>>7982574oh I forgot to mention that the protag/villain divide in strike it rich doesn't happen early on as many of the initial establishing fights have opponents that join the protagsalso I probably should've mentioned it but as you can see, Glory has long hair. Long hair is king
>>7982574>>7982577Personality is what makes people stay, but design is what makes people come. That's come, with an o and and e, not any other word. And getting people to come in the first place is a lot of the ball game. It doesn't matter how good your story is if people don't read it! People really do judge books by covers.>When men like a crazy/unpredictable girl you really have to provide a bigger sense of unfamiliarityWhat I'm reading is that I might want to make Mehitabel weirder. All of her inspirations (I dug up an old moodboard for this I made at the start fo the project) are fairly typical. Maybe it's time to get Stranger.>If you're down for using manga as study materialI often use manga as reference when making art. I'm not very into anime or manga, but I've been studying Shoujo Tsubaki a lot lately, alongside Takato Yamamoto. I will give that comic a read some time.>Crazy girls as protagonists and crazy girls as antagonistsDoes this girl seem an antagonist? She's our protagonist, and doesn't have an immediate "crazy girl (evil)" counterpart. But it's probably going to happen. I'm heavily inspired by Panty and Stocking. It Will Happen.I'll have to draw her with long hair later...
>>7982498Smoking is not hot wtf are you on>>7982520Nah you were correct ive known smokers irl and that shit disgust me
>>7982488Spoken like a marriage virgin It's sunshine and rainbows until you both change and start to hate each other but need to live together because you have a kid
>>7982390Lolis
>>7982712I agree
>>7982520male here. there is absolutely nothing appealing about that character design.
>>7982440>short skirt>and a long jacket.
>>7982399Show us the female gaze list.I'd like to learn.
>>7982902I've gotta go, but some notes to expand on later:Youthful, neotenous featuresInviting and open to the viewer, signaling that she's available to "you" (opposite of this is a character like Bayonetta, who's very look but don't touch, being lewd for herself but not you)Hairstyles and hair colours having a visual language in character design, especially in anime (e.g. girl with short blue hair vs. long red hair)Differences between east and west, and how america likes maturity while japan likes immaturity. Different people will have different cultural preferences, but the american way is seen as an aberration of normalcy (i.e. most men want young, untainted girls, but american media pushes the image of a mature woman who grows up fast, wears heels, red lipstick, and stockings, smokes, and other gross shit). Use these sparingly, they can all be a huge turnoff for a lot of men.
>>7982902I have more familiarity and nuance with this so I haven't written it out as fully but the long and short of it is that power dynamics play a bigger role than with men, it seems, and it's split heavily between two axises: werewolf/vampire and successful/pathetic>Werewolf Lovers Who like physical power dynamics, where a far stronger partner either overpowers them, or COULD overpower them, but due to their relationship, refuses to and lets himself be dominated instead. >Vampire Lovers Who like emotional power dynamics, where a charismatic or socially powerful man leverages that invisible power over a woman, or a man becomes desperately obsessed with a woman despite himself, invariably being frustrated that all his intelligence/charisma/social power comes to naught in front of her.A lot of series double down on both: Take Boyfriend To Death's Strade, or like any characters from The Freak Circus. Fuck, this applies to most (based) dating sims.Then there's the success/pathetic angle. How straight are we playing these archetypes? Is the werewolf actually a big strong confident man, or is he just an insecure guy trying to flex? There's a big fantasy of being "the one exception" - for example, being the one person a serial killer won't kill, or being the one person the Vampire CAN'T charm, and so he becomes obsessed with chasing them because they're The One Thing He Can't Have. Often times characters ping-pong between successful and pathetic depending on headcanon.There's also whumps, who fit into an ENTIRELY different category not in any of these axes. There's a lot more I know. I have more experience talking to women about what they like than men.>>7983076That's not what female gaze means, anon! Not in this context anyway...
>>7982399Seeing the archetypes male spaces tend to fanboy around and deducing that men enjoy reducing characters into tropes feels like it might be a bit of projection on your end. A neat narrative spun up because you want fit males into the archetype of caring a lot about archetypes.Males dislike fitting into broad predictable labels, probably even this one, which is why when you try to fit them onto neat trends like 'men like x and dislike y', they come out trying to prove how unique and special they are.I think females dislike this too, especially when men do it to them, but then there are also things like astrology where women self sort through superstitious star signs and card readings, so who knows.I think a fairer conclusion would be that males enjoy contrasting personality traits. 'the bratty flatlet' being short but headstrong, 'the tomboy' being female but more masculine, 'the mommydom' being comforting but strict, 'the bitchy queen' being smug and confident but secretly submissive, or just a female being dominant in general is enough of a contrast in a sense. So the male gaze often likes archetype breaking archetypes I guess.Males need for validation, and their desire to avoid coming off as being validation seeking is definitely a thing you can appeal too. Being looked down upon as simple or weak but then getting catharsis through proving others perception of you wrong. You can definitely give characters archetypes, but don't have those be the end all be all, have complexity hidden within. Like a coward suddenly showing bravery, or someone perfect and heroic faltering.For reading or watching to get a better sense for the male gaze story wise, I'd say 'Solo leveling' and 'The Eminence in Shadow' are good examples of male validation slop.>>7982520For the art specifically, I think the one in the middle bowing is the most appealing. Pretty eyes, eyelids, eyelashes and eyebrows can do a lot for the male gaze. The top left is a little bit too uncanny.
>>7982390cute beats cool
>>7983139I appreciate the insightI don't mean to come off as reductive in this thread, or to start some blase gender war like it's 2015. I know every person has their own tastes and you can't design something to appeal to everyone, and you can't fit everyone neatly into trends and categories. But fact is there are certain things more people like than other things, and it'd make me a better artist to KNOW what those things are, even if I don't use them.About contrast: People seem to be really into that, and I don't think I'm thinking about it enough! I'm always thinking about contrasts in character pairings (I'm a shipper at heart, it's incurable) but people like characters that have a front and a back - not just "people like layered characters", that's some entry level "half an hour long video essay conclusion" stuff. People specifically like characters with a lot of duality. A kind character that looks scary, a scary character who looks unsuspecting, easy stuff. Mehitable is already kind of like that, but I could make it clearer in her design.>the one in the middleI really like that drawing myself, but I worry it makes her look too stuffy and demanding. She's a wild, irreverent character who's dignified but also a punk and a slut. Top left being uncanny is good, but that sketch was for a cover page, so I shouldn't do that. I'll save expressions like this for panels when Mehitable needs to be a little freak.
>>7982711yeah dreaming about having a relationship and actually having one is Depressing
I would recommend to study the design of the female characters from hellsing. Feels like that is the design you are trying to emulate / portray with your protagonist. Victoria, Seras is a good example of a female character that can be cute, sexually appealing while being sometimes intimidating.
>>7983161Foid hands foid proportions this is not doing it.
>>7984085What?
>>7982390>trying to appeal to men>not trying to appeal to highschool girlsPretty gay mate
>>7984126Pretty certain he means that the hands are too distinctively drawn by a woman by having too much focus/shape put into them, as a really, really exaggerated example think of yaoi hands or those HD soles feetfags draw
>>7982567Here's my interpretation to show what I mean, an image is better than a long ass explanation, your version is too manly
>>7982390Seeing how you guys seem to be focusing on "feminine" qualities ITT.Could I ask this? I am designing a "screen face" character.Ignoring the idea of simply making her robotic body look feminine.Is there a way to design her face that would still convey her femininity while sticking to this kind of minimal features look (just showing her glasses/eyes and her mouth)?She is meant to be an adorkable, bookwormish type who is loquacious (once she starts talking, she will kind of ramble into multiple subjects), and if "overstimulated," will blue screen and reboot after a minute.
>>7982488t. incel that unironically believe in real life love>Lol>Lmao even>>7982390Just look at Gacha games, they mastered the art of creating character designs that appeal to the male and female gazes.#List of suggestions#>Nikke Goddess of Victory (Male Gaze)>Snowbreak (Incel Gaze)>Azur Lane (Otaku Gaze)>Uma Musume (Yakuza Gaze)>Blue Archive (Lolicon Gaze)>Love and Deepspace (Female Gaze)It's important to make a distinction that Female Gaze can be subdivided by Fujoshis (Female Troons aka FtM) and Yumejos (Femcels)P.S. They hate each other and they don't overlap that much which is surprising
>>7984133Nice dubsThanks for translating, that is what i meant. But also the proportions. Long arms like a yokai and undefined legs. Chris Sanders might be able to help, and if you don't believe my gender theory, this is also why lilo and stitch is such a pick-me tomboy stereotype. Disney knows this.
>>7984081I REALLY need to get into this series! It's got an incredibly pretty and striking aesthetic. I've mostly seen nazi vampires splattered by blood swastikas out of the series, but I'm sure there's more.>>7984133>>7984176I just really like drawing hands! I like to think I've gotten better since then, but my hands always look strange. This particular character just has really long arms, though - I like how they make her look corpse- or spirit-like.>>7984141So if I make the hair come further down the forehead and fall more over the face, that makes it work better? It certainly looks more punk like. I'm trying to avoid overusing hair over one eye since I'm very weak for it, but, it's my protagonist, if there's anywhere I should cash those chips in...But she really does look like a lesbian now.>>7984150What you have is perfectly fine.If in doubt, add eyelashes. You may also add little flecks to the corner of her eyes which give the impression of a feminine eye shape. Consider using Steven Universe's Peridot as a reference. She's the very same archetype, and has a similar face.
>>7984175>Foids in different cliques don't click.Shocking.
>>7984150There's not much you need to change
>>7982390Rather irrelevant to the discussion at hand but please make sure to end a command/demand with a full stop, it just doesn't come over as stern without it and comes across as rather clumsy in my opinionOf course one could extrapolate that the person demanding it is instead getting carried away by their own desires in the heat of the moment and as a result is losing themselves a bit, but this isn't quite communicated well enough from what little context is shown here
>>7982390licking a Woman's heels already sounds male gazey enough lol
>>7984310>>7984341Thanks for the advice, I gotta say the single eyelash "spike" really does look great.It adds that ever-so-slight feminine trait I feel was missing.And I think I can already see it at different angles to accentuate different expressions.Thank you guys for the input.
>>7984409its not? thats grossthis thread is so retarded 90% of ot must be samefag
>>7982390I remember plebcomics making an example of "a character designed to appeal to the internet" (men). She looked like a cross between Kuroki Tomoko and Loona from Helluva Boss.Men generally like Gothic women and women with curves. Light skin with dark hair and clothes, a bit of edge to them. It's why Raven from Teen Titans remains popular. >>7982556A constant is that men want a woman who's emotionally vulnerable but is also emotionally mature to an extent. Not completely helpless but not asocial either.
I want to fuck a female xenomorph
>>7982390Best way to do it in 2k26 is shape the character like a wood plank and imply she's 5-12 years old
>>7984507also make her a xenomorph
>>7982390Something that's worth pointing out is that men tend to differ in terms of psyche: Otto Weininger wrote about this in Sex and Character, you can see the parallels with Jung and the Anima/Animus.>A man with a pronounced female-leaning psyche will be drawn towards women who have more pronounced male-leaning psyches.>Likewise, men with masculine-leaning psyches will be drawn towards women with feminine-leaning psyches.What's important to distinguish is that this is purely about the Mind: physical attraction tends to be a combination of genetic inheritance and influence from outside sources. A man will be sexually attracted to a woman who resembles his mother as well as the women he is exposed to growing up.>>7982413Freud was kinda right in the end.
>>7982413>>7982422>>7984518Okay, but then what's the opposite case?What's the (closest to a) middle ground of attraction between the sexes?
>>7984536The middle ground would be characters that are equally masculine as they are feminine in terms of psyche.We can look at Misato for a great example of this: she can be incredibly immature such as in her relationship with Kaji, her slovenly lifestyle, and half of her interactions with Shinji. Very conflict-avoidant, sensual, tries to make excuses for her poor actions, has poor emotional control, and is very vulnerable.At the same time, Misato is shown to be "the man" of the household. She's blunt, stoic, commands Shinji, has a "so what" attitude when it comes to her impulsivity, and driven. Serious.For an example of a male character who embodies that middle ground of masculinity and femininity, that would probably be someone like Alucard from Hellsing or DIO from JJBA.
>>7982390the top hentai boorus most read works should be of interest to you, you will notice any and all vaguely female looking character has a broad appeal as long as it is drawn by a talented artistmen are visual creatures, you don't need a sophisticated design, just a well drawn figuretherefore the question is "what is an appealing figure for most men", not a design question as in outfit or personality.look into ahemaru, hirame, menyouian, YD...
>>7984545DIO:masculine psyche:>craves power about all else>literal superpower manifests as control over a fundamental law of the universe>composed, ruthless, and uncompromising>extremely violent and brutal>enslaves others, mind controls people by literally implanting pieces of himself in them>literally named after God in Italian>attempts to dominate a patriarchal bloodline>refuses to be under the control of anyone else>fucks women and then sucks their bloodfeminine psyche:>likes to dress-up and wears makeup>canonically parties at clubs>nurturing and seductive allure towards followers>emotionally intimate dynamic with Pucci>grooms his followers, has others do his work for him>is extremely emotionally volatile when the mask slips>"shapeshifter" both in aesthetics and psychology>literally obsessed with a man to the point of stealing his body>had a child with said man's body>incredibly egotistical and flamboyant>big evil plot revolves around everyone (including himself) knowing what their fate is and surrendering free will
Thinking about it you can only do a xenomorph cowgirl or doggy. Because of the head thing she can't lay down on the bed so no missionary or mating press. I love mating press so Im sadterrible design for a humanoid who can't lay down but I'd still fuck her in all the other positionsa yautja is fine too
>>7982390There are only two Female archtypes and they're defined by how a man sees himself interacting with themWomen to Protect (the bratty loli, naïve noble lady, childhood friend,etc)Woman to compete with/conquer (Tomboy, Maternal lady, Friend's elder sister, Cocky Classmate,etc)the Second ultimately transition into the First as the story progresses be it by a chink in the armor/a moment of weakness leading to dependency all other superficial/cosmetic features can be mixed around but they will fall into either of these Categoryyou can really compress my points into that calvin's dad explains polarity of a concept meme
>>7984872>Woman to compete with/conquer (Tomboy, Maternal lady, Friend's elder sister, Cocky Classmate,etc)You know that some men want to BE conquered right?Male sexual desire is just as highly varied as female sexual desire. Not all men are the same
>ITT>retards missing the critical point that men enjoy pornography entirely with their dicks, not their feelingsI like the tomboy because she makes my dick hardI like the milf because she makes my dick hardI like the taller woman because there is MORE woman to make my dick hardAll i want from pornography is to make my dick hard, stories and setting should be an excuse to show naked women doing sex so i can beat my meat.All i want as a man is to beat my meat. I do not give a single shit about their personalities or relationships. Just let me beat my meat.
>>7982390How do you create a successfully attractive female character>If she's cruel and mean and a bitch make sex feel like losing>If she's genuine and sincere and has humility make sex feel like winning. Male sexual psychology is based on carthasis.Visual appearance can be whatever you want, men really don't give a shit. It's a lot less focused on the man's physical pleasure and a lot more focused on his influence over her. Usually the way stories aimed at men progress is the man's presence in the story will flip the girls circumstances one way or the other. >>7982413These archetypes are also helpful, but I would say you could include >The Inferior (His slave, the neet girl next door, the prostitute) >The superior (His boss, the school bully, the rich girl) You could view a Mother or an Older Sister as a superior. Or the daughter or the monster girl as an inferior. The idea of fucking a guy on gender bend thing is more of an AGP tranny fantasy.
>ITT: Ten different anons give incompatible definitions of male sexuality, with the same level of confidence
>>7985027The idea of rewarding a girl who deserves it, or the idea of punishing a girl who deserves to feel sexually gratifying to men. You don't even need to show the man enjoying himself and a lot of male oriented sexual narratives don't even bother. They just present a headless body or even a man with a completely blank face. The focus should be entirely on the female character and the sex appeal is derived from her response to the man. Any character can be visually appealing if you draw something conventionally physically attractive, but a truly truly attractive female character will be subjected to the best or worst (depending on what she deserves) actions of her man.
>>7982520I need to look this up, this shits great.
>>7985030Male sexuality is like that. Fluid and dynamic. What I like won't inspire what others like and so on. My favorite to like or draw is Eclipsa Butterfly. She activates my almonds. I doubt others would feel the same.
>text>xray of penis in vagina>man visiblethis shit only appeals to women and effeminates
>>7985036Oh, you mean the comic?Unfortunately it's still very early days - you don't want to do design work halfway through something! - and I haven't posted it on like, a tumblr or anything. Back in my day people used tumblr for their comics, I don't know where people blog now. But I will try to aggregate it somewhere better than just posting individual pages on twatter as I make themYou might be my first fan!
>>7985076I miss reading half finished comics on Tumblr. You never know what you could find. Perhaps I am. I'm digging this art style. Wherever you decide to post it, let us know where so that I can follow.
>>7985133>doing the forbidden shilling on /ic/I go by Phantastic on a lot places: go looking for "BitchsFantastic"
>>7982390make her cute, and "innocent", and likes to do whatever the mc wants
>>7982390You need a cool self-insert for the men. There's enough sexy art that no dude is going to read a comic where there's not a majority share of the eye candy directed at them. You need a straight-up dude who is there to just occasionally step in and be a bad mother fucker. A guy will tolerate a female focused story if they know their guy is waiting on the sidelines for the time when testosterone is needed.
>>7985203>the mcBut doctor, I AM pagliacci
>>7982390OOT, what kind of female characters do female tend to hate?Pic kind of related.
>>7985645From all I've gathered there's a much more unified list of things disliked in female characters than things they like in men/women. Unsurprisingly, women hate when female characters have no agency/personality, reduced to a prop in their own story. I'm gonna use some basic bitch feminism words here, so don't crucify me.Don't objectify your women. This doesn't mean you can't *sexualize* them; sexuality is an important part of how women are seen in society. There's an expectation that the default state of a woman is to be attractive, and that any deviation from that are a deviation from the norm, rather than just, The Norm, which is what it is in reality. Most people are "ugly" or at least not especially attractive - male or female, but you'll see a lot more ugly men in media than ugly women, because god forbid a woman be ugly. Even women who aren't being sexualized are measured against women who are. So a lot of women prefer to try and own their sexuality - if they're going to be measured by it anyway, they may as well. For example, a lot of women love Panty and Stocking, because though that show sexualizes the SHIT out of its female characters, but they own it. It's their choice. It's a maypole to rally round. Compare this to some bubble-headed gacha girl who's just there to leverage softcore porn to make men gamble.Women tend to hate characters who "stumble into" sexuality like they're niave children. "Kyaa~! I tripped and my skirt flew up, and now boys are staring at my underwear! Oh well, I'll shout at them a little and go on with my day" is a sure way to piss people off.There IS a genre where the femprotag is reduced to a nothing character that men fight over, but that falls into the category of wish fulfilment - as you wouldn't describe a faceless male all the female characters invariably fawn over in a harem anime as "a character men like," you wouldn't describe the willowy, bookish protagonist of a YA romance as "a character women like."
>>7985030Yes because as I keep saying, not all men are the same
>>7985144I'll be following you soon.
>>7985686I think you're full of bullshit, posting contradictory claims right next to each other, with zero evidence for any of it.
>>7984175>It's important to make a distinction that Female Gaze can be subdivided by Fujoshis (Female Troons aka FtM) and Yumejos (Femcels)P.S. They hate each other and they don't overlap that much which is surprisingWhat an odd thing to say. This is only partially correct actually. Women are weird in the way that they can get off to just about anything. The number of fujoshi that I know who double as yumejos that play Nikke is baffling.
>>7985926No no, I'm a woman and I can confirm this post is 100% correct.
>>7985936It can't be correct if it's contradictory.
>>7985940So is all of life lmao
>>7985926What's contradictory?
>women hate badly written shit in media where it doesn't matter because it's just unapologetic goonbait for teensteenagers love that shit where anime girls with gigantic badonkers trip with their pussy on the mc's huge peener, but when you get older you cringe at itSame as every single softcore hentai gachaslop; they're purposefully made to entice teens and what women imagine as virgin incel losers living in their moms basements (which actually now all happen to be some flavor of crossdressers or trans)But why do women "hate" it? Jealousy? Envy? The realization that no men will ever worship them like they do 2D girls? The fact that no 3dp will ever come close to 2D goddesses?The fact that men will throw money at fictional women but recoil at the sight of onlyfans whores?A woman doesn't need to be ugly in appearance to be portrayed as ugly; that's always a narrative gimmick. Meanwhile you can visually portray a man as the most disgusting pig imaginable, and his appaerance wouldn't matter either if he's shown to be a beautyful person.Also, why try to push people to jack it to ugly women by telling them that pretty people are "bad"?Yeah, god forbid people like pretty people.In the end all this shit reads like pure jealousy and envy; as is extremely stereotypical of anyone on the estrogen spectrum.
>>7985970I don't think most of the things in this post were contained in >>7985686 this post. In fact I think the opposite is being said.
the only thing you're thinking about is how to cope
>>7984175>incel that unironically believe in real life loveSingle fathers are a male fantasy too, you will never get it for you are a subhuman . >>7985974The entire thread is pure troon cope, lame as fuck. Day of the AAAAAAAAAACK soon.
>>7985978>entire thread is pure troon copewatch out, next thing xhey gonna cope with is how you actually want to have sex with them
>>7985967You sows are the flat earthers of entertainment.Why can't you see that a fictional character is literally only an object? You are literally demanding that others violate the law of identity. Don't make the object an object.What men and women think of characters is subjective. It's a quality that is part of the subject. Making a character appeal to men literally cannot be objectifying because the appeal is only and solely subjective.You've been so mind-raped by feminism that you can't even tell up from down. You're not escaping objective reality by liking Panty and Stocking, and in any case, there's nothing stopping your idea from working exactly the same if you decided to be into gacha sluts instead. You are logically disabled.>>7985969>women hate when female characters have no agency/personality, reduced to a prop in their own story>There IS a genre where the femprotag is reduced to a nothing character that men fight over, but that falls into the category of wish fulfilment I fully believe that "women hate wish-fulfillment" is a contradictory claim.
>>7986014a group of people hate a specific thing, except some members of that group, who like it in specific conditionsThat's alright.
>>7985933>yumejos that play Nikke.Ok, but why though?Are they social media influencer trying to make themselves relatable to their target audiences?
>>7984310This thread's diversified in topic a lot!I promised I'd do more drawings and more drawings I did.I replaced her Draculaura boots with heeled boots, made her hair longer and fall more surely over one eye, and made it more light and airy as opposed to the rough ratty texture it had originally. I've drawn up some inner thigh high like things over her legs - partially so I don't have to draw all that fishnetting, and partially so she has literal handlebar hips. I also made her boobs bigger and her hips wider, because sometimes you take the easy route.I feel she's a little less standout now - I need to make sure she keeps a creepy expression on her face often, since she's a creepy girl. But she's more in line with like, a superheroine, and people like those kinds of things.
>>7985204Oh, and this is totally off topic for the thread, but tomorrow I can draw all four of my leading men and see what the thread thinks about it, if you'd like. The thread's already going in pretty doiverse directions.
>>7986369Are you OP-anon?
>>7986371Yes I am. I wasn't initially planning on posting my art but this has quickly turned from a theory thread into a practice thread.
>>7986372kek, glad to see you're taking all of this into consideration, and then show what you're doing though
>>7986369Why do you keep drawing midget proportions
>>7986369Don't know why but Seth (specifically the Street Fighter 5 iteration) comes to mind. Also happens to be a little crazy and makes some faces.That said, I don't know if this is a downgrade or an upgrade. I think you would have been better doing away with the fishnet entirely instead of adding the thigh highs (mainly since your goal was to not draw the fishnets as much), and then maybe add something else around the hips/waist like short shortsJust keep experimenting, this thread is pretty info-dense at this point and I imagine there's probably a lot of conflicting opinions at this point, just sift through the trash and see what actually shows up in common between posts even among the different viewpoints.
Coomer and sad panda aficionado reporting in, which may or may not be part of your audience. If it comes to the question "is it coomable?" - as so often, the true test of high art - I will be the judge, jury and potential executioner.>>7982520Me no likey much. The composition of haircut, face, crazy eyes gives me a bit neurotic aunt vibes. My brain does not know what to do with the elongated arms. The scar on the cheeks kinda turns me off. The male gaze does not activate that much, except the kneeling one almost. I feel it needs a stronger focus on the body and >>7982485 also isn't wrong.>>7982567I would absolutely that cat. Despite usually not being much into cartoon characters.>>7983161Hmm do I wanna feel that form, i'm not sure. I feel it doesn't take much to make it appealing, I think I would like that ribcage transition to be softer (the two lines are quite harsh) and have a tiiiiny bit more belly below the naval.>>7985076Wouldn't in the same way I wouldn't a Bridgman figure.
>>7986573(cont because retard antispam)>>7986369Hmm brain would like a tiny bit of sag in the breasts and more belly. Again not sure about arms they throw me off. For the shoes I vote either heavy latex boots or something that shows off the toes, otherwise me no care. I prefer the shorter hair actually.Not to say that anything is bad just describing my subjective and immediate impressions as a male.Note that if you want to appeal to a male audience, every single body part and every personality aspect of a female character is an potential asset that can be sold in exchange for your stories seriousness. To give an extreme and very degenerate example (which i'm reminded of here), the elden ring OC Eylin Eyla by ebonyxh is designed with every cm2 appealing to various fetishes. Could you write a serious story with her? I doubt it. But if you want to make an character coomable, i would consider it a sliding scale with an fetish wolpetinger like that at the extreme end (ofc different fetishes are possible). Increasing the breasts or butt of a character is just the most simplest form of working the slider.Now, what would I like to do with your character? Take the hair of >>7984141, but move the scars on the cheek to the mouth and make them into a functional opening (pic related). Bam, we got a seller. The crazed aunt vibes now become a plus. Lots of fun things to do with a mouthy monster girl, such an underappreciated niche. We can maybe even work out the weird long arms by making her hands more active and prominent.But in the end, it's more important to not compromise on what you wanna do.
>>7982390You have tons of reference material, any anime geared towards teenage boys, gacha games, and Western coom artists like J. Scott Campbell, Bill Elder, Dean Yeagle, Doug Sneyd, Omar Dogan, Frank Frazetta, Glen Keane (kind of), Joel Jurion... hell just look up the old Playboy cartoonists or browse popular comic sites.
>>7982390storytellingI've seen absolute garbage art that have delivered more eroticism than great artistscurvy-ness or how much skin you show is completely irrelevant to eroticismbody proportions, rendering, line art, color, whatever art techniques is completely irrelevant to eroticismthere are pixel art that are 100x more erotic than whatever pro artists can drawyou gotta think like a high level goonereroticism is in macro and micro storytelling
>>7982390>I'm already good at appealing to womenShare some wisdom.
>>7982390This one was drawn by a female? Anytime I see blood in a subtle naughty images it seems to be a female artist.
>>7982390art like this is so hot
>>7982390Do fujoshi and/or yumejo find female sex appeal in male-demographic media repulsive?
>>7987295Not necessarily.>>7985686
>>7982390Men will consume unrealistic slop you present for them as female characters. The same goes for women when it comes to male characters. If you want to appeal to a male audience, write the male characters well. If you want to appeal to a female audience, write the female characters well. If it wasn't hard, everyone would've done it well.
>>7982390Specific cultural and ethnic origins. Like whiskey and coffee, single origins have appeal. Having at least one female character who is well in touch with their heritage can be very attractive. If you want to include a tall, lithe, black woman in the cast, consider making her a proud Kenyan who loves the outdoors and long walks/runs. Throw in a strong, slightly chubby Québequoise who is fluent in French and makes maple syrup.It isn't just about the culture either; showing the visual nuances between phenotypes within your style helps avoid sameface and creates unique appeal. Let your Greek women have straight nose bridges, your Finnish women have well rounded cheeks, etc.Another thing men like is working together towards a common, concrete, external goal. Digging a big hole, building a fort, slaying a giant beast. Team Fortress 2 is a great example. 9 unique classes of merc all working together to push the cart or defend the point in different ways that synergize. If your female cast can work like a team of men or with a team of men then they will have earned respect.
>>7982491Being validated as a person outside the rat race of status is the most powerful male fantasy and the basis for monster/alien girls. A woman who can shoot laser beams and bite through bullet proof glass won't care if you're hitting a plateau in your career or didn't win some big game.
>>7986376I like to draw the heads extra big when I'm sketching and then scale them down so I can get the facial details just right.>>7986380I might get rid of everything on the legs except the boots. Give her something simple like stockings or long socks, but socks give off the impression of softness, warmth, and comfort, which is not what this girl is about. I like the handlebar thigh-highs because they mirror her high collar - give her a "spikey" sort of vibe.Shorts are a step down in terms of /extra/, and for a girl who fancies herself a super model (but comes from Shitland) /extra/factor is important. I will have to experiment with more alternate outfits!I will continue to iterate. . .What I really should do is just draw her in like twenty different outfits and see which one I like best, but I've never been good at filling a sketchbook in a single sitting. I always get caught up on doing things just so.>>7986573>>7986577Thanks for the in-depth analysis. I'd have liked to put in more of your input but got caught up on the Jeff the Killer mouth.
>>7982416
>>7982390>really curvy -To the point that they struggle doing simple tasks, little details like not fitting in bras and holding their chest down when running is hot
>>7990729I'm not making porn, so I don't think I can get away with that. Nor do I want to.
>>7986316No, I just think they're bisexual.
>I want to appeal to men without drawing pornwho's gonna tell xer
>>7982390current meta is dommy mommy or loli, pick one
>>7990269UHMGGGGGGFGFFHGHH AwoooooooooooooOOOOOOOOGA
>>7990729doesn't even get my blood circulating>>7990269diamonds>>7982416gonna kmsgood job
>>7990729No this is just silly, not arousing
>>7990269I love her
>>7982491>he feels like he's truly appreciated for "who he is" rather than what he can do/thread>>7990243Replying to your last post for convenience. As you have probably noticed by now, when it comes to men tastes you'll get as many different takes as men that answered. Women are generally aware they themselves have varied tastes but for some reason most seem certain that men only care for tits and ass. I suspect that by just being aware of your own blind spots and going out of your way to better inform yourself, that itself is gonna prove more useful long-term than any specific answer we may give you.Fundamentally, there's some traits women find attractive and like to see (in themselves and in media) that men don't care for at best, and that ruins it for them at worst. Think of >>7985645 but for men. If you want commercial success, just copy what the gacha-slop-machine is doing. But if you fancy yourself an artist, I think you'll be better off drawing whatever you vibe with. At the end of the day, it shows when the artist is personally invested. Maybe if you had a clearer idea of what specific audience you want to target we could give a better idea beyond what gets each of us hard.Outside of that, and since you came here asking for critique/advice, I would say the face is one of the most important parts here. I think you'd benefit from having a clearer profile (see picrel) and a bit more distance between the eyes; they are currently too close. And perhaps make the mouth smaller as in >>7986577. Notice how the mouth is as wide as the distance between the eyes. Subject to stylistic choice, of course. Someone did mention ITT most people being "ugly" in real life and that is true, but you don't need me to tell you that intentionally ugly characters won't win you any male fans. Use common sense; keep the ugly ones out of the book cover.Best of luck!
>>7982556>so beyond alien, unpredictable and/or very powerfulIsn't this more of a woman thing.Monster girls usually have humanoid designs meanwhile women will fuck Allied Mastercomputer.>>7982562ThisAlso makes sense considering are basically subclinical aspies by female standards.>>7984466I like the femdommy vibe of it but irl kinda gross because you are basically licking whatever unhygenic dogshit the heel picked up from the ground.>>7984994I think OP is asking WHAT makes men's dick's hard and how to maximise that.>>7985926Objectification != Sexualisation. These are different things albeit some fringe feminist types will conflate them or bitch at you for sexualisation (they are dumb)I think what the person you are replying to is trying to get at is "agency". As in, is the woman sexualising herself or is she being sexualized by external forces? Is she "acting" or being "acted upon".Extreme agency would pretty much look like like the succubus archetype (she has desires, she seduces people, outwardly sexual, might straight up "impose her agency" onto others)Extreme lack of agency would be like being sexualising someone in a comatose.Seems to be more complex than that because people don't automatically go "this story has a rape victim (extreme lack of sexual agency,as being literally unable to stop a the sex act), therefore it is objectifying to [gender of the victim]". The term "objectification" seems more to do characters who are reduced to their sex appeal to the audience , is shallow and also has little agency, the keyword being "reduced to". I won't pretend like I know their lingo that well. Won't pretend I fully understand this term as it seems to be very complicated, seems extremely context dependent (a drawing or a 2 page doujinshi can get away with way less characterisation than a 300 page novel), I am ESL and not into literature (where the term it seems most aplicable).
do any other guys actually kinda hate it when a character feels obviously designed for you to find them attractive
>>7993137No?If she’s hot then that’s great. If she’s not then it’s just neutral, I don’t care. As long as she wasn’t made intentionally ugly as a political statement or something.I truly do not care at all about being “sexually pandered to”, it’s just something that would never enter my mind.
>>7993170to me it just feels like someone dangling keys in front of you like they would a baby except you're an adult and you're like well this is kind of demeaning but then you look next to you and there's a bunch of grown men clapping and babbling and jacking off to the keys
>>7993200NTA, but seems like kind of a main character syndrome thing to take offense to.It's more like an autist dangling keys in front of you hoping you'll also find them really pretty.Sure, I'd agree if they look like whoever created them only did so for profit and you see them as very inauthentic, but that goes non-sexual things too.Unless I have evidence otherwise, I usually just assume people are more masturbatory in their creation process. I'm not sure if I'd feel demeaned if someone who loves piss tried to tempt me with urine.
lots of bad advice by people who aren't posting their own art to validate their claims
>>7993057That's all there is to be done! You can only follow what you enjoy, and you can only make what you know. I was hoping to learn something more from all this - I feel like, as an artist, I should be able to be asked "draw X to appeal to Y" and I should be able to do it. To go out of your comfort zone, to know what people want, is part of being an artist, even if you ultimately shrug your shoulders and say "that's not what *I* want and so I won't do it." I hope I've learned something from this thread anyway.While we're here, someone over in /mmg/ who's name I never caught but is a very active poster over there, did a design for her. What do we think of it?
>>7993200wouldnt say i hate it but as ive grown older ive lost interest in the gooner pinups ngl. think doujinshi. i personally wnet from nutting to huge tits to caring more about the vibe the character gives, yk? mostly when they show sexual desire for the male mc, but not just any male character. im becoming broody with age kek
>>7993207see i get that for independent artists who are just making art for themselves and their gooner followers but if it's for a show or a game then it feels like an insult to the intelligence of anyone they expect to buy it >>7993343for me aesthetic is more important than body type when it comes to characters, which is weird cause i definitely do have a body type preference for irl. but i get the desire thing
>male gaze>female gazeuseless feminist babblego back to your containment thread
>>7993333I would be lying if I said I don't relate to the struggle. For a while now I've been doing the same, but opposite, research myself. And God what a headache it has been. Curse the day I decided I should be capable of making erotica that appeals to women! Campy remarks aside, I think men and women are more alike than different so I'll share some of my experience with it; you can switch the genders in your mind.There is a noticeable culture gap here, and it affects the language being used by each side; almost like separate dialects. Though I suspect women are more used to hearing of the male side than men are to the female side which has been, historically at least, repressed. Consistently I've found *the way some things are said* to be profoundly offensive, even if I ultimately agreed with some of them. Not in the political, gender-war-mongering sense, but in the deep-to-one's-core made-me-throw-up-in-my-mouth-a-bit sense. I suspect this reaction is shared and widespread; just look at how many anons got their knickers in a twist over the term "objetification". I think we, men, perform an outwardly carnal sexuality, a shameless goonerism, while internally we resent how society has portrayed as sex-craved mosters.
>>7993455 (cont.)Let me quote a comment I saw on a video about how TB influenced beauty standards.>[...] It can contribute to the belief that women exist for the sole purpose of men's pleasure. A woman "at her prime in beauty" being used and then quickly discarded because she has died from TB but does not bring about sorrow or mourning for the loss of a life because men have already gotten what they wanted out of her and she therefore had no further use.This one isn't even agreeable. Just sickening. The idea what man "have already gotten what they wanted out of her"; the insistance by (some) women that men see them as nothing but "a piece of meat"; that men have no love for their partners and they only see them "for the sole purpose of men's pleasure"; it's deeply dehumanising. It is, however, a real sentiment shared by a great number of women. And if we, as artist, are to create art that doesn't alienate half of the population, we would do well to pay heed to it.I know how mentally taxing it is to sit and read or listen to these essays where women dehumanise men, but I think there's value in it beyond masochism. It has given me great insights, once you dig through the emotional slag, into how some portrayals can cause repulsion and rejection in women without intending it. It doesn't matter if we men are *not* sex-starved fiends; it matters that women fear that we are so, and anything that reminds them of this fact will trigger a fight-or-fly response, alienating them.I think my point is, you will find many men talking about their sexuality online, and by extension, about women. And you will find some of it deeply offensive and dehumanising. But that, ultimately, it's important to understand that this reflect deeper fears in the minds of men. Men are terrified of being "used", just like women are.
>>7993458 (cont.)That's why you'll get so many answers on the lines of "being loved for who they are, not what they can provide", or "being loved unconditionaly", or even "being sexually desired". Men are terrified of being discarded, abandoned, the moment they are no longer useful. In the same way women have their value (in the eyes of society) tied to their beauty, men have theirs tied to their usefulness. I've seen some anon in this thread put it like this, "make the girl predictable and also not make fun of things that men find valuable". What is this if not a fear of abandonment? Sorry for the anon who said this, if I'm projecting too hard into your intentions, but clearly a girl who acts predictable, who acts rational, is one that would not abandon you so long you remain useful; and that gives mental peace. Men value stability and comfort. Even the part about making fun of a man's interestest are a reflection of that; we men cannot partake in any activity that's not profitable or otherwise useful. And when we do, we are often mocked for it. It's just a reminder that we are not humans, just a tool, a means for a goal.Now, I would expect my last paragraph to have been, in some measure, offensive. You were probably thinking "women *can* love unconditionaly!", "women *do* care about more than just money!"; that it's dehumanising to view women as money-craving goblins that will backstab you the moment you are no longer of use to them. And yeah, it is dehumanising, you'd be right to think that. But going back to the quoted comment on TB from earlier. That's how we feel when women act, or say, or *imply throught their language*, that we men only see them as onaholes. That's why "objectification" is such a triggering term; many men, believe it or not, don't see women as a mere object of sexual desire and to imply they do is terribly hurtful towards their very humanhood.
>>7993459I often think of our desire, and maybe saying "our" is too broad for I don't know how many men share this desire with me, to either bleed out on a snowy field or die surrounded by our family. It seems that if we are to die alone, we should do it in solitude too, far from prying eyes. Even in death we are afraid to be seen. I do wonder how much of this is a real preference of mine and how much of it is biological, and how much of it is imposed by society. But I'm going too far the deep end here, I suspect. If you have the empathy to understand the oft-said phrase, "men only receive flowers once in their life and that is at their funeral", and think through what it implies for someone who grows up in a society that seems them as disposable, then you will be better positioned to catch that male-gaze.>>7993333>to know what people want, is part of being an artistI am not so sure anymore. I used to think like that and carelessly took on commissions for BDSM stuff; rope work and the like. Revision after revision the client just felt like that was't "it" and again I looked at the examples of what they wanted, unable to see "it". There was a sexual component to it that was entirely lost on me. I couldn't find anything arousing about it, and it translated into my art. I ended up refunding them.When it comes to sexuality, I suspect there's an "either you get it or you don't" side to it. You can rationalise it as much as you want, but the visual side of it seems to be entirely entangled to one's own desires. To know what people want, is fine. To be able to replicate it, is part of being an entertainer. To know when to dismiss it, is part of being an artist. It's good to know what works and why, but I wouldn't stress over trying to replicate it myself. I want to make the kind of art people will look back to in a hundred years; not likemaxxing on social media.Sorry if my blogpost seems rambly and all over the place. You can ask your AI of choice to distil it.
>>7993455>>7993458>>7993459>>7993464
>>7993534I don't know what possessed me to write that wall of text, sorry. OP seemed earnest in how she approached the topic so I couldn't resist. I hope I didn't sperg too close to the sun here.
Coomer again reporting in, giving my unfiltered thoughts(1) Liking the new hair and eyes. I think my biggest beef was the hair having too much volume.(2) Male character looks good too, but gotta see more males to form an opinion...(3) Very nice! Yea, actually, having the mouth still connected at the node and some of the cheek is better than just one big mouth, more interesting. I'm wondering how the new openings can be utilized to give her unique characteristics. Assuming she has some control over the cheek openings, but cannot close quite as tightly due to the lack of musculature - if she were to puff up her cheeks when being frustrated, would it result in fluttering and snorting undercutting herself in a fun way? Would it make her a messy eater? I imagine her getting into a scuffle with some dude and biting his fingers off, resulting in blood drooling from her sides. Just some image i'm getting. Really wish i could draw it.(4) I think i can deal with the arms now, the general proportions here look good i think. Still would like the breasts to have a more interesting form rather than volume but that's just my personal taste. Not too much of a fan of the generic bubble tits you see in western comics.(5) Angry mouthy, can imagine it looks creepy when fully rendered. Just make sure to show off the face a lot, it's something really unique to her. Western comics tend to zoom out too much, way too often..(6) Like her derpy look. Is that the tongue coming from the cheek? Fabulous! This is what i'm talking about in (3).(7) Very good some sillyness. Really starting to like the character design.(8) Eyes are good and attractive i think.(9) Very good! And attractive!(10) Also very good and weirdly attractive, which i don't think i could have ever said about anything that's showing gore.
>>7993612(cont)Yea, i'm starting to become a fan of the character design, i think you've nailed the head design and i can feel the personality. Sure, i may be wrong and maybe if you iterate on it a bit more you can make it even better, but i feel the head does not need more realism. It's fun and is perfectly coomable as-is (which are the two main bases i am judging from). I would be more interested to see more full-figure drawings and fully-rendered head drawings of your character next.>>7993333 is a great piece but i'm not feeling the fun aspect as much, more of a side character vibe than a main character vibe. May be wrong if i see more, but that's just what i get.Still pondering the richness of possibilities with the two cheek openings.... besides the obvious coom-related possibilities, just what it can give in character expression and interaction. Maybe gotta dig more into facial anatomy for that, picrel
>>7982399you won't have one woman that appeals to every man, piercings are hot, depends on the aesthetic the girl would be going for, if it's nice aesthetically in terms of fashion etc almost every man would say they look goodnow the important part is not accessories or fashion but anatomy, the most attractive girls are slim or not so slim but never fat (unless a it's a fetishist), never taller than men but same height shows a strong personality, shorter should be more submissive, etc, assets should be FORMFUL not necessarily big or small, but well defined, if you can draw a pair of boobs and make them feel "realistic" with technique it's gonna be hot to almost everyone, so no saggy boobs, no wrinkles, no cellulite, just make a well defined slim girl with a personality matching her looks, good fashion matching her aesthetic and you're gonna be gold
>>7982520>>7995551 (me)okay now seeing your art your problem is not drawing the wrong topic, it's genuinely focusing on the wrong aspect of the drawing, I draw porn so trust me, when you want a drawing to LOOK HOT FOR MEN you need to make your whole FOCUS (in terms of composition and most effort) the erogenous zones, you have to draw specifically thinking about this, for the boobs to be visible, in the case of porn it's genitals, but not necessarily, they not only need to be visible but be very important in your composition, at the center or making the viewer look at them, they have to be well defined, given space, not distracting the viewer with other details, and most importantly rendered pretty well, because we want to see the drawing and have it call us back to reality, making the fantasy become "reality" in paper, it has to be credible or else it won't be hot, so focus on learning some realistic rendering, apply just a little bit and you will see a huge difference in appeal!
>>7982711I doubt a kid is the only reason a couple would start to resent each other.How long did you live together under the same roof before having kids? There must have been some early warning signs that either of you ignored.
>>7993592>OP seemed earnestBut anon, I am Pagliacci!It's alright to go off. It's not like this board is fast. I really didn't mean anything by it - certain words do send people back to the red-haired tumblr halcyon days of 2015.>>7993612>>7993619I appreciate the enthusiasm. Ultimately all I can do now is just keep going - not everyone's gonna like her but I think we all know I'm past the point I'm gonna toss the design out wholesail, and I have at least one - maybe two! - fans. That's two more than most things. Oh, that and work on the other characters - I've spent so much time drawing Mehitable that I've forgotten how to draw a lot of the rest.>>7995551>>7995552The sniler...Composition obviously matters, but this is more about the subject than creating an individually appealing image. That comes later!
>>7996966Fresco's design goes hard ngl
Eroticism. It's the difference between simply drawing a naked girl and drawing a girl that men want to fuck.
>>7996966>but this is more about the subject than creating an individually appealing imageagain, the subject doesn't matter, the aesthetic doesn't matter as long as it's consistent, what makes a drawing appealing for the male gaze is anatomy and how you draw erogenous zones, I'm sorry to say but the picture you attached has 0 sex appeal, it's overly anatomical, it's almost horror coded, the shapes you use for the bodies look manly and not subtle or soft at all, if you actually want to improve as an artist do the opposite of what you're doing, make something actually erotic
>all this retarded babbleeveryone's a terminal porn addict now so just trendhop. all the dumb cumbrains pretending to get sophisticated ITT will jack off to anything cause addiction does 99% of the work
>>7997083>the subject doesn't matterYeah it does
>>7997423how so
I'm not going to overthink this and just go with my gut. Nothing here appeals to the male gaze and I don't think you have it in you. As an artist and appreciator of cool things I think what you've presented looks good and you shouldn't waste time trying to make it appealing to the male gaze. Sometimes guys need a break from all the stuff trying to pluck the strings of their lizard brains.
>>7997083>the picture you attached has 0 sex appealThose 3 characters are men. You know that, right?
>>7997721And only one of them was designed to be attractive.
>>7982390Whatever Regura does with girls, he makes them appealing in a way that makes me wonder what corpses some of them are hiding in their basement.I may be in the minority but I do like some flavor of uncanny faces, especifically those that look like they have been through some stuff, maybe a little bit in the malnourished side. Also I like long faces, sadly some uncultured swine will call it horse face, there's much more to a long face but yeah. Personality wise I like that aura of unreachable coldness but then she's casually whispering you about something and being somewhat personal, maybe a bit aloof, she's not intentionally fucking with you, she's just like that in a non malicious way. You can be pretty milld about certain traits and just leave a couple bread crumbs and make people curious, although I would be morbidly interested about a character like the mother from Chi no Wadachi just because the amount of gaslighting and mindfuckery coming from her was certainly something to witness, and yes I cannot stop liking evil women.
>>7993612>Just some image i'm getting. Really wish i could draw it.Why can't you?>I'm badSo what?
>>7985047anything involving cervix stuff doesn't appeal to women. Opening a cervix is extremely painful and even just repeatedly pounding against it can cause stomach cramps. The pleasurable part of a woman's vagina is in the first couple inches where her g-spot is. Cervix cum shots exist for male gratification (my cock is so big and completely overwhelming this woman, my seed is so strong etc)
>>7982390Men like to feel reliable—keep that in mind when designing characters meant to catch their attention.Basically what >>7982413 and >>7982422 said, any women who looks vulnerable in their close circle.I can see dominant women and “girl bosses” working for men happy to submit as long as they feel like an indispensable asset to her.To put it simply, it all comes down to portraying them as fertile—that is, capable of laying half a dozen offspring. If she's also able to raise them all on her own, she’s perfect wife material.
The take away from this thread should be that appealing to moid gaze as a woman is degrading pickme shit. Your art appeals to neither moids or women btw, why would I read anything made by a woman this desperate for approval? You can thank me later for telling you the truth.
>>7982416give her a massive ass or no buy
>>7982488Being a chud is fast becoming nearly as faggot-coded as waving a pride flag and putting on drag.
>be OP>want hetero men's porn money>spend 18 days on a thread trying to convince the one and a half retards on this board that men ""akshually"" want the same shallow dress up barbie slop women wantYou want to win at hetero porn? do pic related
>>7982390OP, traditionally the way people learned was not by asking nazi pedophiles or their blackpill feminist counterparts on this shithole and Twitter, but by copying masters.If your goal is popular appeal in adult comics, make a list of the most popular H artists and copy them.>but I don’t want to draw like X or YThat’s not the point, the point is taking from their styles (which have proven public appeal) those things you can tolerate. So for example Asanagi draws chicks with giant tits and you’re not into that, but he also draws faces with curved cheeks and thick eyelashes, so you copy his faces (which again, have proven appeal) and move on to the next artist on the list.
>>7998413>degrading pickme shitonly a woman could miss the point this badly, jesus>>7998641>porn moneyop specifically said they don't want to make porn, just a comic(?) character that is appealing to men. besides, trying to convince them that men like women with some meat to them is a waste of time. women have been indoctrinated since birth to believe men like skeletons>>7999025>by copying mastersretards here think they are special and unique, and will stubbornly refuse to learn from others. eventually she'll reach the same conclusion as the old masters but from first principles instead
>>7999025>>7999031You are both right.
The real question I'm mulling over is whether men like seeing hot men with their hot women
>>8001891do women like seeing hot women with their hot men?I feel like you would have to be incredibly out of touch to consider mulling over this in the first place
>>8001891Probably depends on the self-image/confidence of the guy. If they see themselves as hot then yes, If they are bi and into the guy too, or cucks that get off on someone hotter than themselves having sex, then yes in those cases too.Men could also just appreciate someone hot fucking a girl in a more voyeuristic/spectator sense, without being bi or, projecting themselves, or into the cuck aspect, in a more good for you bro way.In general though, I'd say look at typical anime protagonists, they're usually not ugly, ranging from okay, to cute, to very handsome. But they are typically not crazy pinnacles of male physique either, since that's harder for the vast majority of men to project themselves onto, you can admire and look up to super hot guys in more of a 'I want to be like' sense, but it's harder to view them as you unless you suspend your disbelief or have a crazy ego.Immersion is pretty vital for sexual content, I'd say most guys probably try to imagine themselves as the male, and if that's harder to do, there's some sexual appeal lost there which might be greater than what you could gain from making the guy very sexually appealing to them.>>8001913hot/hot pairings are just more of something attractive, and from a logical standpoint it might seem obviously more hot, but I think it's worth mulling over. A lot of people lack self-confidence or get envious, so they need someone kinda normal enough they could possibly see as themselves to be able to fully immerse. The confident guys will obviously tell everyone that they don't care if the guy is hot, but the wimpy masses will silently flock to more relatable characters, which is why we see default relatable mc's all over the place even in non sexual content, as it's an obvious supply/demand thing.
>>7982390Throw in some female body hair, anything from unshaved armpits and legs to hairy forearms, happy trail, nipples, etc.
>>7999031holy kino this art is so beautiful.
>>8001955It's more to say that men who dislike that anon's scenario and women who dislike the vice versa are completely different audiences than the typical groups of men and women. There are gacha games catered to men and games catered to women who both have pretty deranged reactions to the scenario, and then you also have Spy X Family where people are cheering on the main couple while also wanting to fuck one or the other voraciously.There's no real reason to try and decide to cater to people who get mad about it unless it's your intention to cater to fringe lonely retards from the start, and at that point you should already be aware of what to avoid doing.
>>8001998YES.I mean I'm probably in a minority of men.But I want OP to cater to me anyway.
>>8002100Doesn't have to be every woman in everything, just acknowledge it exists.
>>7982390Make the face cute, sexy or both. The body can be whatever as long as the proportions and anatomy are done well. Instead of sticking to the same type of girl every time do different body types and age range. One of favorite artists, mdf_an does this really well.>>7982413this anon knows what's up
>>7982413>who is missing both her handsYeah don't put that shit in anything, retarded sadist.
>>7982399>sharp teethMY MAN
>>7982390>>7982399seems like you're writing a more dominant leaning female, so i guess you should keep in mind THE CHASE. If the girl is too easy to obtain it becomes boringKeep that sentiment in mind, like she's giving you the honor of being near her, that special feeling it's only reserved to you and only you
>>8001891yea, ugly men are disgusting and it makes the women seem dirty for letting herself go that lowi guess that's the whole point of ugly bastard fetish in the first place. Not my thing, its just plain disgusting
