>>8010422
pyw

Not sure, what is the method?

ok, checked.

>1. choose an role model artist
>2. try to do a full original drawing as good as you can trying to replicate the model patterns
>3. compare your work with the role model
>4. choose and focus in improving one specific pain point referencing your choosen model, but also finding other materials to supplement. Time is relative, he recommends that you practice until you feel "oh, I got it, this might work!"
5. Go back to 2 and repeat.

>>8010500
The big problem with this method is that I like too many artists to just choose one.

>>8010500
The problem with this is the artist I like isn't very good by general/conventional standards

I use artists I look up to as a 'quality metric' to give myself feedback while working on a piece
in my experience, you can't really shortcut decades of drawing, and the sense of form and design that comes with it
but it helps to have a clear goal

>>8010510
That's a (You) problem

>>8010505
I had this too. Just make a list with all the candidates and try the method on them successively. Probably good to filter beforehand based on what you want to be able to do with art as well. (I had a bunch of animators together with illustrators but I'm never going to be an animator).
After doing this I ended up realizing that I find a certain artist more intuitive and they have the full range of everything I would need from a style. So the choice became clear on its own.

You can still do it with other artists too, especially good if it's more contrasting to your usual style. It's just beneficial to focus most of your time on one.

>>8010526
You can shortcut years of being subpar and inefficient though, which is why that method is so kino. So many useless and time-wasting questions just disappear if you have an unchanging and super specific goal, if you started later in life it's invaluable.

>>8010416
Yes he‘s the goat

>>8010588
pyw

>>8010416
No one draws on /ic/, anon. I certainly don't. I love to give people advice and critique though. It's fun to lead them to hell.

>>8010416
No, Saito is fucking obnoxious and trying to listen to him makes me want to kill myself.

>>8010586
I made lists, I made several lists, the list keeps growing and changing and I keep remembering other artists whose work I like and then adding them.
>After doing this I ended up realizing that I find a certain artist more intuitive and they have the full range of everything I would need from a style.
I see. It's just that being able to express many different things is ideal, and for that you can't stay locked into one style, hence the inability to decide.

>>8010500
the thing is the problem point will end up just being drawing the figure so you end up going back to grinding figure drawing anyway

>>8010626
kek, that pretty much sums it up
>”Where does it hurt?”
>”EVERYWHERE”

>>8010500
>the pain point: I can't draw

>>8010500
Who's a good artist to copy? I personally like Takehito Harada, Yagaeshi Nan and Amaduyu Tatsuki but I'm not sure if I should try copying any of them.

>>8010500
Everyone complaining about this method either needs to git gud, learn to sit down and focus, or is actively being a crab. Is a pretty reasonable way to improve, your necessity to add more complicated steps and bullshit is simply procrastination cope

I haven't seen a single before and after of anyone that has done it
at least with the 'draw bridgman twice' meme we have some samples of its effect in the archives
for naoki's, nothing

>>8011053
is there more to it than >>8010500
so anons can try it if they wish? i think i probably should put my head down for a bit and just copy since i pretty much reinvent the wheel every drawing and hop between methods. i wonder if many copycats you see around are influenced by him if he promotes the method extensively

>>8011041
There are people that can't get accurate or comprehend space. How do you even teach those? Naoki Saito's method seems to be exclusively about copying, so I guess it's meant for intermediates

>>8011053
>at least with the 'draw bridgman twice' meme we have some samples of its effect in the archives
Who?
I don't think anyone actually completed "Drawing Bridgman Twice". Same with Nikolaides' Natural Way to Draw. Here on /ic/ or elsewhere.

I think Naoki Saito wants you to emulate, not copy. As in "draw in the style of <insert famous artist>. Aka pastiche.
It's obviously challenging. But being hard on your brain means you'll definitely learn more.

In order of difficulty (more mindless -> less mindless):

tracing < copying (drawing from reference) < fill in the blanks (like some exerciese in that cognitive drawing book) < drawing from memory < rotation/change angle or pov (kim jung gi advice) < emulate others' artwork (Naoki Saito) < completely original drawing (drawing from imagination)

You learn more as the difficulty increases.

I don't even think Naoki Saito wants you to copy the style perfectly. But he wants you to do as much as possible, a serious attempt, a complete artwork. Not just random sketch. And then compare. Figure out what you lack compared to the /pro/. Like your line quality, composition, perspective, color choice. Think about how to improve on that. Rinse and repeat.

>>8011105
>wants you to copy the style perfectly
It's the goal, he even warns about beginners disliking some part of their chosen artist's style and thinking it should be changed as being a symptom of not having good perception/taste yet. I've noticed this myself, the more I come 0.01% closer to drawing like my /pro/ the more I actually think it's the perfect style and understand why everything is done the way it is.

You're not going to reach the goal but the hardship is what allows you to grow as you said. And the small divergences due to personal touch will still make your stuff recognizably yours.

>>8010621
Any top tier artist who designs characters for storytelling heavy mediums (anime/LNs/VNs) can already express everything you need in terms of range. There are more specialized art styles that tend to be much darker/realistic that don't do the full range, but can do what they do extremely well, but that's just going to be solved by knowing what you want to do with art.

You can pick up a secondary style as well or switch later, if you base a lot of your drawing knowledge on copying animators specifically (not necessarily with the saito method) the knowledge transfers over surprisingly well between styles.

>>8010416
I tried. I realized I hate everything. Like it’s annoying to actually study how your favorite artist actually created their piece. Instead of just enjoying the artwork. That book is hardly a guide how to do that effectively. Just nonsense after nonsense, so much padding.

>>8010500
I dont like anything, and I don't have 3 months.

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>>8011033
Nurzhan Bekkaliyev. They are one of my favorite artists, and they've shared a ton of sketches, renders and their workflow. He's a good resource to learn AO, especially. Image is is work. You've probably stumbled upon his work of you use Pinterest a lot.

>>8016717
It's okay to be an anime enjoyer instead of anime creator. Anime is so tied to technique that if you don't find that enjoyable on its own idk why you would even do it.

>>8011033
The one you want to draw like, i.e. the one who does art for the types of works you want to do art for in the end.
>>8016756
>Nurzhan Bekkaliyev.
Not anime though.

>>8016783
I'm not gonna argue about that, but it's still a good resource to start from. It's like discarding Bridgman because he's western, but an absurd amount of Asians keep referring to his teachings. I wouldn't discard it because it's not anime. That being said, if geographics are important, he is from Kazakhstan, which is in Asia, technically, and does make his at anime and manga adjacent.

>>8016791
>but an absurd amount of Asians keep referring to his teachings
Literally who, anon?

>>8016791
>which is in Asia, technically, and does make his at anime and manga adjacent
Geography doesn't matter, the style isn't anime at all. If you want to base the way you draw on something that isn't anime you're not going to draw anime. Being Japanese and fully based and red-pilled on anime while copying some Bridgman without making it your basis isn't going to cripple you, but being unable to draw anime and doing the Saito method with that Kazakh guy very likely will.

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>>8016791
>Asia
>Asians
>all art from the continent of asia is anime

>>8011033
>Takehito Harada
I think there are most materials for this guy. Unfortunately his earlier stuff is quite different to the later stuff.
Labyrinth Refrain + Galleria art is basically the perfect generic anime-style imho. Good example to copy.

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>>8016805
>generic anime-style

I want to learn the ideal generic anime-style. Any artists you guys recommend? Most important criteria is there are a lot of leaked hi-res scans of their work. On e-hentai or elsewhere.

>>8016847
>ideal generic anime-style
Sadly can't recommend something that does not exist and can't exist since any anime style is fundamentally tied to its execution, thusly making any style inherently specific to what it's actually doing with the lines/shapes and so on, and not generic.


But there are generalizable shared properties among styles, if you specify what exactly you're looking for in terms of expression maybe the anons with a PhD in Saito's works here can help.

Anime art is a generic term used to denote art following a specific set of CR maximized drawing techniques. An anime style is a specific instantiation of those techniques being to create a certain aesthetic.

>Any artists you guys recommend?
No idea what works are your favorite in terms of story, what you like the aesthetic of the most and what you want to draw like, so nobody can do that without just recommending their own taste. There is no generic anime.

>>8016856
I mean, stuff from Yoshitaka Amano is obviously very distinct.

I'm looking for the most generic anime-style possible. That still looks good. As a base. That doesn't look soulless like AI or gacha art.

Tanaka Kunihiko would be perfect. But the ones available online are just a few stuff from Xenogears and Rough Archive books (mostly lolis sketches).

I only know people from JRPGs. I'm sure there are illustrators that fit my request better.

>>8016869
>most generic anime-style
Idk if you didn't read the post you're replying to, but no such thing exists. It's literally impossible, an anime-style is an extremely specific thing.

> That still looks good
All high CR anime looks good my bro.

>that fit my request better.
You don't have a concrete request yet. Just look for what you want your drawings to look like, if it's high CR anime then you can't go wrong anyway. You can just understand what you want later better. If you also go hard on anime settei in the meantime it's going to safeguard you from being unable to interpret other styles so there is no harm.

>>8010505
Then save their works that you like and then choose Top 3-5. Then compare them with each other and rate them. Sleep on it for a day or two and come back, and pick which one you immediately gravitate to as your starting point.

>>8016793
Jim Lee, kek.
>>8016798
This is a good point, thanks. I've seen arguments on Koreans and Chinese artists being anime and/or manga. What's your take on that?
>>8016799
>IF geographics are important
Can you read, asshole? Was literacy not a part of your curriculum growing up? It was a hypothetical, not an actual statement of fact. Of course I know Japan is the main source of anime and manga, don't be retarded. That was why I stated a condition, which was geography. Touch grass and get a life, nerd.
Also, cognitive resolution is a term made up to seem more smart than you are. Anyone retarded enough to not see differences in artistic aesthetics are just that; retarded. It's not based on which country it comes from, it's based on being able to see differences in styles.

>>8016953
>cognitive resolution is a term made up
it's literally part of Japanese illustration education now, it's from Naoki Saito's book and is a core concept. >>8016811
he IS more smart than you so better listen.

>>8016993
He's one of many. That's like saying Karl Marx knows more about how capitalism extracts value from the labour of the proletariat than you, which makes him smarter than you, and ergo you should listen to him. Do you see your logical phallusy?
I don't disagree that he's smarter than most people on this board, he actually makes money from art, but that doesn't automatically make him correct.

>>8016953
>I've seen arguments on Koreans and Chinese artists being anime and/or manga
Some Korean and Chinese artists can draw anime well and they're only going to do more anime as time goes on, but right now most non-Japanese in general do a compromised way that grafts western fine art or cartooning techniques onto a faux anime base. Just learn directly from Japanese artists who do anime and you'll be fine. With some experience you'll be able to easily see which Korean/Chinese artists are doing actual anime and you can learn from them too. You can learn things even from those who don't do anime and it won't harm you if you can already draw anime, but if you want to do anime you need to base your drawing tech on anime itself.

>>8017006
he is smarter and he is correct in this case. you are using fallacious reasoning yourself by claiming it's incorrect just because it's a """"made up word"""" and by attributing bad motives to those who use it.
so yeah, Naoki Saito wins again and you should just buy his book already.

>>8017011
I never said it's incorrect, it's genuinely a good explanation of how some people seem unable to see distinctions in anime and manga art. Terms made up to produce an explanation is as old as time, we've been doing that since the beginning of recorded history. You do however miss the point of him being automatically correct. In what way is his theory of aesthetic differences? The ability to spot differences is pattern recognition, but the ability to put that into perspective and context is a literacy skill. In the western world, we call that low cognitive functioning, which is a generalized application of understanding our environment and how we interact with stimulus, one such as art. It's not new theory, it's just new Japanese theory, which apparently makes it superior, I guess.

>>8011090
"Draw Bridgman twice" really originated with a story told by Frank Frazetta. As a young artist, Frazetta was working for Standard Comics, where an older colleague named Ralph Mayo recommended he learn anatomy. Mayo lent him a copy of Bridgman's "Constructive Anatomy" as well as "Anatomy and Drawing" by Victor Perard. As Frazetta tells it, he took the books home and copied both of them front-to-back. The next day he returned the books and naively informed Mayo that he had learned anatomy.

Later artists apparently took the lesson of this story to heart, as David Finch recommends that aspiring comic artists copy Bridgman not just once, but twice. This is advice he was given earlier in his career and which he found helped him and several other artists with whom he is acquainted.

I'm not sure why poor Victor Perard was left out of the "speed run your way to Frazetta skills" guide, but it's probably because his book is more conventional and doesn't have the strong emphasis on structure that is unique to Bridgman and which most definitely influenced Frazetta's style of drawing and painting figures.

>>8016756
I like the sense of volume but those hips...

>>8017023
Just read the book instead of trying to correct more experienced people in their choice of coining and using new terms. _that_ is actually the thing people do when they want to appear smart by asking low value gotcha tier questions. If you have been on reddit you've seen this yourself, I trust you have enough intelligence.

It's part of his entire philosophy to the method and relates to what he calls tuning to the master, etc.

>which apparently makes it superior
If it's Japanese and related to art, it's automatically superior unless the west can step up to making real anime. Until then western opinions are valued less by default.

>>8017058
>It's part of his entire philosophy to the method and relates to what he calls tuning to the master, etc.
Well he's continually failed at it, as his obvious attempts to be like Yoneyama Mai have shown. So if he can't do it, I have no reason to listen to him.

>>8017068
Him being more of a teacher now doesn't negate the truth of his statements, it's pure logic. Also where is the proof he is trying actively to tune to Yoneyama Mai? He actually discussed his history of using his own method and the artist he used. Are you just making stuff up now to attack Mr. Saito because he keeps dabbing on everyone?

>I have no reason to listen to him
Have fun not drawing anime then, it's not like the west needs any help with that as is. The west is its own worst enemy.

>>8017058
You know what? You're right. I shouldn't take the bait. I will try to get a hold of the book, but it's not a priority. If I find it cheap or by other means, I'll give it a whirl. I love learning, so no matter what, it should be a part of my library, I think.
If it's related to anime and manga, then Japanese artists reign supreme in the discussion, I wholeheartedly agree. It would be the same if we were to mention French realism, and not use examples made by the French as a baseline of how it's supposed to be expressed. It is, however, only superior in regards to what constitutes true anime, not westernized interpretations.
That, I've never understood the reason for legitimacy outside of Japan. Genuinely, what's the deal with the shit-ton of western youtubers trying to produce and draw their own "mangas"? They are just comics by default, not mangas. It's surface level, like most midwit artists, because it might look slightly like anime.

>>8017075
>Also where is the proof he is trying actively to tune to Yoneyama Mai?
If you can't tell, see>>8016811
As for
>pure logic
Those who can't do, teach

>>8017083
Vague perceived similarities by you are low cognitive resolution territory and not proof. There is nothing indicating that he is using his own method with Yoneyama Mai as the target artist, which is the thing you need to demonstrate to back up your claim of him failing at his own method. Vague similarities or inspiration isn't the same thing as using the method, the method itself explains that difference actually.

>>8017088
>Vague perceived similarities by you are low cognitive resolution territory and not proof.
So you can't see it
It's not "vague similarities," it's only vague in that he has failed to mimic her level of skill while doing the things she pioneered - you know, the things no one else was doing? It is because her work in unique that it's so blindingly obvious to anyone with eyes what he's doing. The proof is self evident, and you can't see it, because you're low CR.

>>8017077
Honestly the videos are enough to get a good idea of the worldview if you are based enough. The book is just good as a supplement to organize your thoughts better.
>It is, however, only superior in regards to what constitutes true anime, not westernized interpretations.
Faux anime is a corner-cutting hard technical downgrade, not legitimate a technique that is hard to acquire and that was developed specifically to have certain storytelling/aesthetic properties. If you can draw anime and have high enough CR this is trivial to see. So anyone from the anime world can freely mog faux anime with no consequences. There is no technical value in faux anime even compared to cartoons or anything else the west actually developed.

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>>8017077
https://e-hentai.org/g/2325811/25035cc9f3/
excellent book, you'll learn secret japanese techniques like using the rule of 3rds

>>8017090
You can't prove that he used his own method just based on anything being visually similar, which only shows inspiration. You need to show actual history for your claim. You're just coping now.

Just buy the book already to level up your CR.

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>>8017028
My guess is that it's a style common enough to have appeal to some. I like Bekkaliyev's art, and it's very reminiscent to the Ten Ten styles of anatomy and figure drawing, pic related. The illustrations also have some weird stuff going on with the hip area, but are still a good resource to learn AO and rendering from.

>>8017094
Sorry, I'm not going to listen to some low CR nitwit who can't even see obvious things, let alone anything with subtlety. Maybe come back when you have literally any ability to see things.

>>8017091
>that was developed specifically to have certain storytelling/aesthetic properties.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that sentence, alone. Style is more than looks, it's a whole language, and you pointed that out perfectly, I think. A lot of media outside of Japan might look Japanese anime/manga, but the structure, themes and storytelling is unique to Japan. Instead of appropriating foreign art language, they should adopt a more unique visual language themselves. Say what you will about Mignola, but his works are distinct. Most midwits seem to think they can contribute to the scene by making their own version of a manga, missing the point, inherently.
>>8017093
Ooh, that's convenient. Thanks, anon. It's less than 240 pages, so I'll give it a read this evening.

>>8017102
>it... it just is!!!!
That only works on reddit, lil bro. This is high CR country and actual verifiable and peer reviewed evidence is required to win debates here.

>>8017091
>Faux anime is a corner-cutting hard technical downgrade
Fred Perry and Bleedman mog anime althoughbeit

>>8017123
>mogs
You can't be serious.

>>8017125
Would "they are more pleasant to the eye than anime" have satisfied your needs for the King's English better?

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>>8017103
you won't regret it
it has hidden gems like 'keep a sketchbook' and 'draw from life'

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>>8017128
Are we talking above this Fred Perry? If so, are you delusional?

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>>8017132
another gem

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>>8016870
>but no such thing exists. It's literally impossible, an anime-style is an extremely specific thing.
anime is an industry anon, surely you don't believe that literally every anime-style illustration and project ever made in the history of the medium was a purely artistic pursuit made explicitly to pursue the most unfiltered individual expression of the artists present
surely you are aware of the concept of mediocre seasonal stuff, tie in animes made to advertise other things and general low budget productions made to fill up timeslots on tv

Man I'm trying to think of one artist i'd like to emulate for 3 month and I can't really think of an absolute perfect role model.
There's one guy i really like but he mostly do black and white and id also like to learn color

>>8017194
>There's one guy i really like but he mostly do black and white
Who?

>>8016870
It's really not a hard concept. Why do you pretend to be retarded?

More unique: metal gear solid poop guy, Yoshitaka Amano, Yusuke Nakamura, a bunch of other japanese who called themselves "illustrator"
More generic anime-style: Awai, Tanaka Kunihiko, Harada Takehito, persona guy, those anime setteis that removed mangaka's unique styles

Trying to learn how Amano paint his stuff is just not a good idea at this stage. I want something more generic, more normal, as a base to learn from. And ideally someone that have a bunch of sketch and artwork collections, either on e-hentai, amazon.co.jp or elsewhere. Again, not a hard concept.

This is not just low cognitive resolution. You're legitimately blind if you can't tell the difference. Fucking retard.

>>8017701
>And ideally someone that have a bunch of sketch and artwork collections
Also more varied subjects. Female, Male, Adults, Children, Armors, Weapons, Buildings, Vehicles, Mechas.
Not just lolis like in Tanaka Kunihiko's Rough Archive.

>>8010416
I like his work but i can't stand his videos... he is talking way to much and elongates his videos because he wants youtube money instead of just getting to point. He talks 5 minutes about same thing. Yes his method works if you are not absolute beg and you are capable of reflecting on your work.

damn the CR poster got out CRed

>>8017702
Yoh Yoshinari's notebooks

>>8011033
>Who's a good artist to copy?
Anyone with good and distinct approaches to drawing. Hopefully someone close to what you would want to draw like rather than look from afar. Also a style compatible with you
>Takehito Harada, Yagaeshi Nan and Amaduyu Tatsuki
These all are good

>>8017700
ireading

>>8010500
>choose and focus in improving one specific pain point referencing your choosen model, but also finding other materials to supplement. Time is relative, he recommends that you practice until you feel "oh, I got it, this might work!"

can you elaborate on this? like for example if my pain point is hands, finding other materials would be searching hands in similar poses and copying/grinding those out?

>>8019682
Yes (especially if your chosen artist does not have that much material to use as reference), but also reaching for knowledge like the basics of the hand anatomy, such as muscles and bones.

>>8010500
That sounds like it would be beneficial if I had at least a vague understanding of how anyone draws anything. If I understood what I was doing well enough to make a genuine effort at emulating an artist (even if with awful results) then I don't think I would need help anymore.

>>8010416
gonna do it after I finish DAB and copy Bridgman twice

>>8010416
>Yes
>Naoki Saito
>None

>>8010500
ight, i am gonna do this.

>>8010416
>Did you do Naoki Saito's 3-month method?
Nearing the end of the 3 month mark but I did take a break for about 2 weeks and still have a few issues I need to work on (head/body proportions, feet, etc.) so I'm going to extend it for a little while longer
>Who did you try to emulate?
Nagi Ichi (yaoi doujin artist)
>Any success?
I've now had 2 people say my art reminds them of him so I think it's working >>8018392

>>8019796
ah gotcha, thanks man

>>8020688
>at least a vague understanding of how anyone draws anything
along with drawing along with hide channel, just do at least one full accuracy copy with color, you can take normal anime (not illustrations) for this and try to get it as close as possible. doesn't matter if it takes 30-40 hours over some days, doesn't matter how many times you need to overlay to check your stuff and erase/redraw.

you don't need to "understand" for this, just experience the information overload to shock your cognitive resolution into being higher. after that you'll basically never be the same, most people here don't ever do this and cope with doing less accurate copies all the time so their resolution stays handicapped.