>drawing with lines all my life>spent 5 years of active practice and following drawing courses with lines>still fucking suck and have trouble grasping the full shape in my head before drawing it>can't project the final form or the silhouette into my lines and always have to liquify after putting them down>composition sucks when I finally color the piece with lots of stray bits that don't belong >say fuck it and start painting with with color and value blocks instead>shit just works right away >easily build up shapes and forms on the canvas and can preview the finished composition right away >work just has dimensionality with no extra effort or major redraws Now I'm glad that I'm not fully retarded to draw, but I still want to be able to draw well with lines since a ton of my inspo artists are lines-first or even lines-onlyIs it possible to transfer this knowledge back to lines somehow or do I just lack the ability to render stuff in my head in advance necessary for successful line drawing?
>>8018230left is not drawing, but you are right. rendering is infinitely easier than drawing.
>is it possible to transfer this knowledge back to linesNo. You're now just another rendermonkey. Which is fine. Not everyone is meant to be a lineGOD.Now if you will excuse me, I need to fill up another page of my sketchbook with 80 gestural cubes in fisheye perspective (with a fineliner).
20 seconds to draw the same thing with lines vs shapes
>>8018251you added a palm in the line drawing, so they're not the same thing. I have to give you a 0YOU FAIL
>>8018259I think that demonstrates it nicely, the palm seems logical in lineart but doing blocking first makes me realize no palm is a nicer silhouette, which is something I'd only realize after coloring lineart
>>8018230cool but i need to be a lines *GOD* to do watercolor tradplus is the picture even real?
BRO YOU CANT GOOGLE LENS IMAGES OF NUDE PEOPLE ANYMORE OH MY FUCKING GOD
>>8018291i know, i first wiped out against this brick wall a bit less than a month ago. you are me exactly, post-impact.>and it was tots sfw innocent and google-powered misinterpreted cropping, i swear
>>8018230Both look shit.
>>8018235whenever linefags say this and they're asked to post their rendering, they don't, it looks like shit, or they post that one image because they can't actually stand behind what they're saying so they cope by using some dead guy's words that were taken out of context
>>8018288Pic is probably real. Atelier artists work on the same drawing for a week, if not two. Full-time. The other one is a quick drawing and reveals he us fundamentally/beg/
Brother, who told you to draw like on the right. How are you expecting contours of blank merged shapes to provide an illusion of depth.First off take the principle of interposition from hogarth, picrel. When drawing a figure you have different natural forms in front of each other, and you can capture that by drawing overlaps as X/Y/Z of hogarths figure on the right shows. What you are drawing is A/B/C, the precise example he gives of what not to do. (Note hogarth is also using tone to fully explain the more rounded plane changes, but that's not the point of the drawing).
Here, Gnass goes into the same thing. He identifies major forms (A, B) and transitional forms that inbetween them (C, D). The examples are quite extreme, but this idea always applies, even when a figure is standing straight up.archive org/details/nma-figure-drawing-with-karl-gnass/NMA+-+Figure+Drawing+with+Karl+Gnass/Part+3+Formulation/14.+Demonstration+7+(models+-+Monika%2C+Zeka%2C+Catherine)+-HB.mp4Also again, putting in some tone to explain the form can really help your understanding and make it more organic. What also helps for learning is drawing your figures like glass, as-if you can see through them. Once you can do dense descriptions like that really well, you can leave elements out. You can show the muscles working in places that you want to empathize and put less detail (merge the natural forms) in places that are in the background or out of focus.Isn't something like picel much more interesting than drawing the same blank figures out of the same mindless constructions over and over. And it actually aids you heavily when you decide to develop the figure further into a full rendering.
>>8018230>Is it possible to transfer this knowledgeNah not really. Line drawing is a separate and frankly more difficult skill. The ultimate test of whether you’ve actually understood the form and rendered it accurately is whether you can represent it as a pure line drawing. If the picture doesn’t look good as lines alone then you’re ultimately just fudging the end result and hoping the viewer falls for your tricks
why does everyone keep saying that painting is easier than line drawing. painting is literally artmagic>>8018557us plebs don't got brushes like those
>>8018533Hogarth is so fucking shit lmao
>>8018230Why not just draw over the block-in? Line art does not necessarily need to be part of your sketch/design phase. There are plenty of line artists who start their sketches as painted silhouettes.Steer into your strengths.
I watched someone on twitch do "line work" by painting with a white brush that would automatically put black outlines around the strokes you made. Yes, it looked exactly as shit as you'd expect
>>8018717>Why not just draw over the block-in?The image on the left in your picture is more interesting and appealing to virtually everybody than the lineart image on the right. If you have already painstakingly created the image on the left, why go through the hassle of making the crude, inferior image on the right?>There are plenty of line artists who start their sketches as painted silhouettesCan you name five?
>>8018230It might be because of lack of imagination.When you are drawing with lines you need to think about volume not about just putting down the lines on the paper doesn't work.
>>8018482It's ok, render monkey. No need to sperg out.
>>8018638Value and color are actually observable, and can be transferred from the subject to your work. Lines are abstract, and don't cleanly correspond to any particular observable phenomena. You have to figure out how your subject's appearance can be suggested using lines as a medium, which is an extra layer of complication. Drawing with lines is almost as much of a language skill as it is a visual art.
>>8018638That is a red pencil I'm 100% sure. Digital art really fries minds
It's pretty much entirely an issue of being able to visualize before you draw, if you can't visualize beforehand your lines will simply never be good no matter how much you try, practice, correct or liquify them Blocking colors and values lets you experiment and find good looking results on the canvas but will also always be inferior to just being able to imagine good drawings in your head and just put them down
>>8018482if you think of linework as rendering with heavy light exposure and the contours as shadow, you realise that it IS rendering
>>8018714Better than the glazed overrated bridgman scribbles that you guys shill to crab begs
The morale of the story is that not all methods work equally as well for all people. Never fall for the dogmatic bullshit people spew out here.
>>8018717Not all line styles rely on realistic forms that can be blocked out, some are about line appeal itself
>>8023668>>8018230Honestly, what is this meme supposed to say?
>>8030854Its saying that despite immense skill in many areas, there will always be something you neglected and will struggle with.So make sure you study outside your comfort zone unless you want to be drawing kangaroos like proko.
>>8030861honestly still think the kangaroo meme is forced as fuck
>>8030850That isn't related to what I wrote, or OP's question.What I'm saying is, if OP is able to create a good rendered image from imagination as he claims, then there's no reason he can't use the same methodology to get to a line drawing, because the line stage can be its own separate thing. If he can't visualize good shapes with lines, but can sketch with silhouettes, or value blocks, or whatever method that's natural to him, he should continue doing that. He's not asking about line quality or line style, he's having trouble sketching with a line approach.
>>8030878nobody asked, newfag
>>8018766Bait used to be believable
>>8018251Now do shapes with lines.
>>8023658incorrect
you guys are fcking weird
>>8030884OP says>since a ton of my inspo artists are lines-first or even lines-onlyso still I think there's a difference, you can't really get the same qualities of a line-first style by tracing a volume painting because they rely on how you handle lines, anime/eastern styles especially are about implying volume and form with few lines and being able to paint doesn't mean you'd be able to choose/trace the right lines on top Pic related for example is not something you'd ever get by going for volume blocks first, you have to have a knack for the rhythm of the enclosing lines as well as how they convey volume and put them down at the same time
you guys are all huffing some unnecessary koolaid
>>8030878suck my kangacock bitch
>>8018230Personally found the improvement after I did this to transfer atleast in part.>>8030850Albeit as this anon said you do also need to consider line appeal
>>8030850sauce? I used all the reverse search tools and didn't get results besides yours :(
even if you try to use lines for shading it won't be the same as someone whose training and understanding of form is based on lines. even pre-AI lines filter are going to be better.
>>8030850To be able to draw like this you need construction/form knowledge, both line quality and rendering will come as a byproduct of that. And those badly constructed wings look terrible on that well constructed body.
>>8037725Yes but the methodical way you lay down construction/form or by using value is different from the energetic lines you can make if you draw directly in lineart, that's why going value blocks first and tracing that will never result in a drawing like that. If you can't internalize construction/form knowledge to see your next line before you put it down so you can stylize it on the fly like OP, you're shit out of luck if you want to draw in that line style.
>>8037738I never said the opposite xD
You may be more comfortable with a thing you created yourself. https://youtu.be/1OSWR7xiQLk?is=MJkNkQ45Wd3qsXHERepeat until you get something you want to draw again. Then draw it roughly like an animator might, getting a feel for their shape, stance and the space they occupy. Then draw your first formal portrait.
