>>8033408
Other open comic publishers:

Dark Horse ( https://www.darkhorse.com )
>Dark Horse still welcomes your submissions, and all submissions will still be reviewed, just as they always have been.
>All unsolicited story/series proposals must have a full creative team on board. Writer-only proposals will not be reviewed.

Image comics ( https://imagecomics.com/ )
>Image Comics only publishes creator-owned material. They do not contract creators; they’re only interested in publishing original content for which you would retain all rights.
>Image Comics publishes creator-owned/creator-generated properties and THEY DON’T PAY PAGE RATES. Image takes a small flat fee off the books published, and it will be the responsibility of the creators to determine the division of the remaining pay between their creative team members.

Drawn and quarterly ( https://drawnandquarterly.com/ )
>Please email a low resolution PDF with at least 20 pages of comics and cover letter to submissions. Do not send dropbox links, scripts, or proposals. Please read our submissions FAQ.

Fantagraphics ( https://www.fantagraphics.com/ )
>submission page: https://www.fantagraphics.com/pages/faq

Top Shelf Productions ( https://www.topshelfcomix.com/ )
>Regarding submissions, we're easy. Just email us a download link of what you'd like us to review. NOTE: We cannot accept cover letters, plot synopses, or scripts unless they are accompanied by a minimum of 10-20 completed pages (i.e., fully inked and lettered comic book pages).

Additional publisher lists:
> https://jasonthibault.com/definitive-list-comic-publisher-submission-guidelines/
> https://writingtipsoasis.com/best-independent-comic-book-publishers/

>>8033409
Some western / indie publishers of Manga:

Saturday AM ( https://www.saturday-am.com/ )
> Digital indie magazine, seems to be on the up-and-up
> Open submissions for long-form series; also distributes series currently being published elsewhere.
> Regularly publishes one-shots, making it a good potential outlet for already-finished work.

Oni Press ( https://onipress.com/ )
> Technically indie, but at this point large enough by comic standards to be mentioned in the same breath as other publishers.

Antarctic Press ( https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/ )
> Longtime large-indie publisher of OEL / manga-esque books.
> Seemingly taking submissions at present if https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/pages/submissions is anything to go on.

Yen Press ( https://yenpress.com/ )
> Started out as a small indie publisher of original / Korean material, and has grown reasonably popular since.
> As of 2016, it is also one of the western arms of the Kadokawa Corporation, with Kadokawa owning a 51% stake.
> Editorial inquiries can apparently be sent to yenpress@yenpress.com, however, they apparently are not open to new submissions at this time.

Viz Media / Viz Originals ( https://www.viz.com/originals )
> *The* western manga publisher.
> Currently in the exploratory stages of setting up an English label.
> Submissions are open and several books have been announced. However, progress on the label seems to be moving very slowly.
> Still might be worth a shot anyway.

Shrine Comics ( https://shrinecomics.com/ )
> Small indie manga publisher
> Seemingly attempting to make the transition to physical volumes
> Allows crossposting to other sites

Iconic Comics (https://www.iconiccomics.com/)
>A bit like Oni Press and Antarctic Press
>A small publisher with a focus on indie works with manga inspiration

>>8033410
/mmg/'s very own anon-led anthology: /ic/onography
https://discord.gg/QYnFBves7V
https://forms.gle/d3a2Cwwd44sJYyqv9
(Anthology project is defunct but the discord is alive)

Additional community added Resources:
Mangafonts: https://mangafonts.carrd.co/
Hiro Mashima YT: https://www.youtube.com/@mashimaCh/videos
Ganmo, a job listing board for manga assistant work: https://ganmo.j-comi.co.jp/posts

How (You) can help /mmg/:

> Know about a contest or a publishing opportunity? TAG THE OP and post a link.
> Have a new resource? TAG THE OP and link / mention it for inclusion.
> Don't be a crab
> Have a link / DL for a mentioned resource? TAG THE OP and mention what you're supplying a link for.
> SCREENSHOT / PASTEBIN effort posts that help you for posterity.

First for sex

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I have a quite specific question, maybe you guys can help.
There is a young girl, one one the mcs. She is mean overall and she calls every girl that has bigger boobs than her fat. And she has a very flat chest, so she calls basically every girl fat.
Now the question is, should i explain the joke if i write a shonen? I know shonen love explaining jokes.
She is calling a girl fat on page 2, should i draw a little panel, with an arrow to her flat chest and a note "is jelly and calls girls with bigger tits fat"
Or should i let the (non existent) readership figure it out themselves?

>>8033426
Is that it? She's insecure, that on it's own is not that interesting or funny. It's not that hard to understand and you don't need to point it out but there's has to be more to it.

>>8033431
Yeah, that's it. She is a mean girl and she insults other people all the time.

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about 50% of the way through prepping Hefferchu volume 1 for print. I added this as the first page of the volume to improve story cohesion, add foreshadowing, give vibes of characters/story, and give a general theme. Thoughts/suggestions? I will be working on the volume + kickstarter rewards (bookmarks, print maybe, stickers maybe) throughout the next few weeks:

https://www.twitch.tv/efsius1/
https://www.youtube.com/@efsius1/streams
(yt for no music)

The mean girl is American, i'm not and long out of school. So im literally watching Mean Girls right now, for inspiration. Maybe it will give me some inspiration.
>>8033436
Is that a spin on that retarded low cow who drew a comic about pikachu sonic or something? I don't really know the lore.

I'm so sick of drawing rocks

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>>8033436
Let us know how long it takes to get a c&d from tpc

>>8033459
Sorry Toriyama

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>>8033408
https://artfol.app/contest/GlobalComicAwards2026

efsius sent me this; might appeal to some of you.

>>8033463
I think it's transformative enough to avoid litigation, but i'm as much a lawyer as you are.

also; general congrats to pig-anon and galknights anon for submitting to the contest regardless if they placed.

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:3

>>8033478
Mucho texto por favor

y'all japanese yet?

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Is this true?
Fuck.
Maybe I should make a friend, at least one.

>>8033478
very cute.
Now we got 2 catgirl posters.
kino

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Are you published yet, Alice-anon?

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>>8033486
はい

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>anon
>Write what your readers want, not what you want.
>authors & editors
>picrel
Which is it?

>>8033492
>anon
>wants you to fail because they're crabs
>authors & editors
>want you to fail because they don't want competition

>>8033492
>>8033493
These guys know (from experience) that trying to guess what people like as an amateur isn't going to get you far. Leave that to people with experience; they've been around longer and have more data to work with to recognize what it actually is readers like about a work. Better to focus on what YOU like and focus on getting that right.

Plus editors are financially incentivised to find new talent. Why the fuck would they want you to fail? No, they want you to succeed and to be able to claim that they had a hand in it to whoever decides who gets bonuses at the end of the year.
And, respectfully, the authors judging these are not afraid of competition. They're all industry vets.

And if you're ever having to pick between advice from industry pros and random anons on /mmg/, I trust you have the sense to recognize that this isn't a choice at all.

>>8033492
>the only thing that can't be fixed is a work that doesn't have anything you want to draw in the first place
I wish I could take this sentence and laser inscribe it permanently into the minds of the ESL howies here who are constantly asking how this ephemeral manga that they're always riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight on the cusp of making should be like, what the art style should be, what the story it should most closely ape, etc etc etc. Stop trying to please some weird imaginary audience and draw something that actually speaks to you, jesus. There's nothing more boring than a by-the-numbers derivative work. If I want X, why would I read diet-X or generic-brand-X? I would just go for X.

>>8033492
Are you retarded? Genuinely.
One is advice directed towards you as an individual trying to get paid, the other is a platform instructing a horde of disposable mangamonkeys to throw shit at a wall because the platform only needs one or two to stick and doesn't give a shit about 99 chumps failing and killing themselves.

>>8033500
>the other is a platform instructing a horde of disposable mangamonkeys
but enough about mmg

>>8033496
>editors are financially incentivised to find new talent. Why the fuck would they want you to fail? No, they want you to succeed
>t. retard
Refer to >>8033500
No, an editor doesn't want (You) to succeed, they don't give a shit about you, what they want is to dig out a star, not tard wrangle a hundred mediocre randos into producing something passable. These people aren't YOUR personal editors, they're scouting talent.

>>8033506
Of course they don't care about YOU specifically. But they don't want hordes of disposable mangamonkeys throwing them nothing but garbage imitations of better works. Nobody said they're your fucking special little friend.
>what they want is to dig out a star
Correct. They want manga that can be a hit and that will get them paid. The less digging they have to do the better for them. You should listen to the people sorting through the endless trash to try and find diamonds TELLING you what a diamond is.
>they're scouting talent.
It's crazy that you understand this and still think they're lying to you, trying to make their own jobs harder.

>>8033508
No, you fucking retard, what that means is that they want to see what you can do without them holding your hand, they're not giving you advice to succeed, they're instructing you to do whatever because that shows them what you can do, not produce a good manga.
The people who pass the filter WILL be told to produce what people want because that's what editors fucking do, it's literally their job to tell people how to make a manga that sells.
It's not good advice and it's not meant to help you, it's meant to make it easier for them to throw your garbage in the trash.
Dumb nigger.

>>8033508
retard

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None of you are talented enough to get scouted by Shonen Jump so it's funny watching you losers debate their hiring policies as if you are.

>>8033515
That's literally the point, they're not talking to us.

>>8033510
I see you're determined to be a moron about this so whatever. Post work or fuck off.

>>8033518
I'm not the one lacking basic reading comprehension, nigger.
Work's posted, seethe more.

>>8033520
>Work's posted
Where?

>>8033469
>https://artfol.app/contest/GlobalComicAwards2026

>Theme:
>Out of Frame
>Not everything has to stay inside the panel. Bend the rules of comics and storytelling by exploring what happens beyond the frame. Surprise us with a unique interpretation that takes readers somewhere they never expected.

>Rules:
>- Single image comic: up to 12 panels allowed (max aspect ratio 1:3; tall uploads won’t be cropped)

Interesting... Though, I do think the theme would be better suited for a couple of pages than for a single one. Maybe I will try.

>butthurt nigger desperate for attention from his superior
Never reply to me again, cuck.

Drawing multiple characters interacting with each other in a single panel is nasty. Even though I am doing it digitally, I am limiting the sketches to a single layer as if it were traditional. It gets messy fast and is harder to maneuver.

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>>8033524
My man I already have your attention. I'd rather you just get lost if you're just going to post something idiot, call people retarded and then be too chickenshit to back your nonsense with anything substantial.
Anyway since you're too much of a pussy to put his money where his mouth is, here's mine.
https://nhentai.to/artist/dingle

Much like your manga, shan't be read

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/mmg/s finest btw

>>8033530
That's not a manga, it's porn, we've been over this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w

Dingle is the only person I ever seen flexing his well below poverty line job without even a hint of self awareness.

>>8033550
It's a shame that comic making no matter the country isn't paid more. It requires so much work.

>>8033536
Who said it was manga?

>>8033550
What, posting my fucking work flexing now? Geez I'm really moving up in the world.

>>8033533
lets not act like you wouldn't immediately get mogged if you actually drew. diabolically low effort bait.

>>8033553
Well, not that one

Sometimes I feel really blackpilled when I realize that all the successful Western mangaka are ethnically Asian. Like is there something about growing up in at least an Asian family or vestiges of an Asian culture that allow Asian immigrants to adopt a manga style more easily than say someone white or black? Sure there are plenty of Asian weebs who also suck at emulating a manga style but at least 1% of them are successful at it.

>>8033559
Nah you're probably just making up racial dichotomies to try to reason your way out of something. Look at it like this
>A) the racial bonus does exist; it is simply impossible to succeed if you're not no matter how hard you try, and you should give up
>B) it does not exist and you should keep trying
If you honestly believed A, you wouldn't be posting here.

>>8033561
You sound like a nigger.

>>8033561
What if it's just that it /is/ possible to be non-Asian and get there but it will take a disproportionately longer time the same way it would take someone who's "untalented" at art to get to a place that a talented person would at age 15? If it's even something like having your first media experiences be in an anime/manga artstyle making it easier by a number of years of practice it's something to seriously consider.

>>8033559
niggas will write anything just to stave off drawing for a few minutes

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>>8033564
That may be closer to the truth.
A lot of things in life are like that; what comes easily to some takes much more effort for others, and that's why people tend to drift into certain hobbies/careers simply because they are naturally good at them.

If it's true that you have to draw two, three, or ten times as hard to get the same results - then why are you posting here? Get drawing! You've got a lot of work to do!

>>8033559
Who do you consider a successful western Manga? Brandon Chen?

>>8033565
These threads lately have been zooming to the auto sage cap because of people arguing and idea guys asking questions and just chatting instead of starting. The year is ending so people are getting antsy and are flooding /mmg/ to try and change and not waste another 3 months waffling.

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Figuring out a good plan to cut the fat from my series. After I get through the existing story boarded material I'm going to go right into a battle royale/survival arc where all the ghost hunters get jumped by all of the cult villains. I plan on storyboarding future chapters with an accelerated pace and I want to start being more economic with my dialogue. My new estimated length has dropped in half. From 16 volumes to 8.

>>8033576
Glad to see you're continuing on. I know awhile back you were talking about dropping it. It always sucks to have to drop from your initial planned length, but I think it is better to at least finish it. Especially since you've already put so much effort into it.

>>8033408
It's like someone took a bucket full of all sorts of bait and dumped it in the thread.

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>>8033579
My biggest concerns were invalidating existing content by cutting stuff it was building up to, or cutting essential building blocks to moments I wanted to do. it also felt impossible to cut all the details out of a story illustrating familial dynamics within two separate groups. but my new plan allows me to hit many beats I planned on doing, and many moments can be recycled. Id rather do what I can to green light the big moments I'm excited for, and make a story happen at all, rather than worry about details. Many things I thought id never get to are now 7-10 chapters away.

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Fuck it. I didnt like the digital color version so I will remake it black and white and trad. At least the vibe is much closer to what I intended and failed in the first ver

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I enjoyed every moment of creating this. In hindsight, I would've changed a few things - moved the shoulder forward, rounded her breasts a bit, moved her serratus muscles inward, perhaps drawn her head so her chin-line hides more of her neck, the bottom panel has a bit of a composition issue with the left middle side of the panel just being empty space. . . also I forgot to carry over the blood from the earlier panel . . .

Okay you know now I'm going through it I have a LOT of changes I'd like to make, but it doesn't matter! I don't draw women very often, let alone ones that are meant to make men horny, but, I feel I did a good job here

https://litter.catbox.moe/m76yi49u9mqv0590.pdf

thanks anon from last thread saying I needed beta readers, I totally agree. Next time I enter a contest I'm going to start early and take my time, the crunch way of submitting at the last minute was just stressful and not fun, and resulted in a worse manga anyways.

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>>8033634
good idea dude. anyway comic was still very solid tho, good luck for next time. (maybe include a big titty giant girl from the start instead of the end)

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>>8033636
actually pretend i attached this instead

>>8033615
I opened this on my phone and was enjoying it but when I got to my computer to give it a proper read, the link expired

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People keep saying that story is more important and most mangaka should prioritize how to write interesting stories rather than how to draw pretty pictures.
So, to what extent does 'bad' art influence your decision to pick up a manga?
I wouldn't have picked up Orb hadn't it got anime adaptation that polishes it's amateurish artwork.

>>8033648
It's kind of a "first impressions" thing.
If my first impression is the bad art, I'm moving on.
If my first impression is someone telling me it's really good or some other piece of information that peaks my interest, I'll go check it out.
I am absolutely judging books by their cover and I am not going to apologize.

>>8033640
sorry anon, I'm a bit retarded when it comes to tech, here's a link again.
https://litter.catbox.moe/nakm43ju4blprlwb.pdf
current chapter of something I'm working on, always open to feedback.

>>8033650
pretty crazy and cool, I enjoyed it. Its pretty long and heavy but I'm sure readers are used to this style of humor. I would say sometimes the art gets a bit symbolic and cryptic and the text gets too small, The actual pacing of the information being delivered was entertaining, like a hit piece, its not just a random string of coincidences.
As far as the game references, they were pretty nice, I enjoyed the SMB3 style stuff here and there, just old mario stuff in general. Overall the style of this comic is very weird so I think not many people would like it, but as an unc I thought it was funny throughout.
I can't say much about the ending fo the chapter because I don't know if this a ongoing story or an isolated gag, I expected something punchy at the end.

>>8033648
beginner art can work for some genres like comedy but if it's supposed to be serious dramatic story and it looks like Sonichu I have a hard time getting into it

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>>8033648
Do our short-attention span tiktok generation even care about 'good' art?
I don't want to spend double digit hours drawing a single page only for them to swipe their small goycattle device in 3 seconds.

>>8033677
Most will not, especially if it's in B/W. The generation raised on MCU production value isn't going to look at manga art as amazing the same way previous generations do.

What is even the real difference between manga and comic? Is it art, format or the story?
Why should a black and white Batman comic not work in a shonen magazine? Or a colored manga be destributed by an American publisher?

>>8033680
In my opinion the main difference is a self identifying label, based on a collection of qualities. If you have enough manga qualities, you have a manga. You can have something that's hardly a manga, or something that's barely a manga.

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Posting page

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>>8033680
Manga is cinematic. People who read manga read it as though it were an anime. It has motion, timing, it's immersive.
The ultimate goal in pretty much every manga is to maintain the illusion that what is on the page is real.
To give the characters life, the worldbuilding meaning, etc.
Even when an idea is ridiculous, the author strives to convince you that it's real.

It's not that western comics don't also want a cinematic experience that feels immersive and real... but for whatever reason, they routinely sabotage this aspect at every opportunity.
Pic related is cool looking, but it's impossible to look at it without noticing the panelling. At a theoretical level it guides the eye through the action, but in reality it totally takes you out of the action.
When you're reminded that what you're reading are just drawings on a page, you're no longer immersed, the world no longer feels real and the characters no longer feel real.

To someone seeking an immersive cinematic experience, even if they can't articulate why, they'll read this and find it uninteresting, that it didn't really grip them. It's just boring if it doesn't feel real.

>>8033698
Cont
I've gone through countless books, interviews, documentaries of both manga and comic artists, writers, editors, and the two are worlds apart in how they think.

Comic artists are entirely fixated on illustration. All they talk about is illustration. Cool shadow shapes, dynamic anatomy, forced perspective, beautiful lineart, etc.
By contrast, manga artists virtually never talk about the art itself, but always the art in service of the story.
They'll talk about how a line conveys a feeling in a character, or how a type of panel conveys a certain mood or timing.

I forget who it was, some famous manga author, who in making his own manga style, gathered together all the manga he owned, and separated them into two categories: easy-to-read, and hard-to-read. With hard-to-read being basically anything that is not cinematic, anything in which your eye does not effortlessly flow through the pages.
If you ever have to look at a panel and then look at it again, or look at the previous panel to figure out what's going on, that counts as hard-to-read.
And he sought to make only comics that are easy-to-read.

It doesn't really matter why you might need to look at a previous panel, but simply feeling the compulsion to do so should be considered a state of failure.
Like if you were listening to a piece of music, and part way through it you have to pause and go back.
You're not even listening to the song at that point, the illusion is broken, the magic is gone, and it's just strings being plucked in a wooden box, or in the case of comics/manga, it's just drawings on a page.

In every page you draw, ask yourself if what you're drawing feels real. Not real as in realistic, but real as in believable.
Is it immersive, does it go beyond mere lines and become the thing itself?
Are you panels noticeable? Make them unnoticable! They should be like windows into a wild and exciting world, not flashy graphic design.

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>>8033698
Not sure what you mean by cinematic. But but Watchmen looks and feels much more as a retro Hollywood movie than any manga i read.
Manga never uses anatomical right art, faces are always stylized, especially the lighting. In Watchmen the anatomy is simplified but very authentic.

Same with the old school grid. It feels less dynamic but the fixed ratio is much more movie like compared to the wild paneling style of manga. Ad i said much more modern and dynamic but less cinematic as movie-like.

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>>8033710
The problem I have with Watchmen is not the drawings themselves but the panelling they are contained in. In most pages it is a 3x3 grid of 9 equally sized boxes arranged like a window pane. And even when it isn't, they are still always arranged in such an orderly way which create visual tengents and draws unwanted attention to the panelling itself.

But the 3x3 grid is particularly bad because it stifles any dynamic sense of timing. It puts the comic on a sort of metronome pacing wherein each panel is to be read at exactly the same speed as the one before it. This has the effect of making panels which are meant to be slow feel rushed, and panels which are meant to be fast feel sluggish.

I see no good reason to ever follow such a stulted panelling formula. Panelling communicates crucial information about the pacing in a comic. To deliberately neglect it is like cutting off one of your limbs or trying to play a piano with half the keys removed.

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>>8033712
I can't agree with either of these. Neither that old comics follow a stuffy grid, nor that manga panelling is wild.

Old comics were stiffer to be sure, but even still they almost never resembled a window pane. Even when they were just 6 boxes on a page, they always made an effort to misallign the gutters so as to avoid any apperance of a window pane. Watchmen is far more constrained than old comics ever were. And old comics were constrained as a result of primitive production practices of drawing the text first and leaving room for the artist to fill in the space. A practice that nobody in their right mind would ever suggest to be revived.

And on the manga side. Manga panels are dynamic to be sure, they guide the reader through the story so effortlessly that most people never notice them at all. But when you do actually look at them, you may see that they are all extremely conservative. I have thousands of manga pages saved and of them only about 2 or 3 are non-rectangular in shape, and those are from Akira, who has a reputation for breaking the mold. And while he is almost the only manga artist that uses triangular panels occasionally, he also happens to almost never draw bleed panels, making him overall more conservative than average.
Characters almost never break outside the panel borders. When they do it's almost always for an introduction.
Even sound effects occasionally don't break out of their panel borders.

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>>8033712
Also, a note on cinematic.
I'm not sure if you do intend to describe something like pic related. That is not what I mean.

Pic related is not cinematic. Pic related is boring.
It doesn't matter that the artist probably aspires to be a Hollywood storyboarder and so is drawing in IMAX frames. Comics/manga are not film, nor are they storyboards, they are comics, and must operate within the bounds of their medium.
A storyboard communicates pacing by physically writing the timing on the storyboard. It's not the finished the product, it's just a blueprint for a later cameraman or editor to work with.
As a comic, it is the final product. If you use pic related panelling, your comic will be stiff and lifeless, because you haven't communicated any pacing or anything.
In a comic, small panels communicate fast pacing, large panels communicate slow impactful moments. Long vertical panels communicate tilt shots, stretched out horizontal panels communicate pan shots. Speedlines communicate a whole host of things. Abstracting the background communicate things, etc.

You have to make your comic feel like a movie when read, but since it is a comic you must still draw it as a comic, and not a movie storyboard.

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>>8033708
Maybe you mean something else, but the dynamic paneling of modern manga is dynamic, but often quite unclear to read. And you notice the panels a lot, cos they change all the time.
Again look at that shot, very, very clear movement. You could say it looks like an Ikea instruction and is not very emersive, probably, but in thers of clearness it's top-notch.

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>>8033724
And it is very clear not only in regards to space, but time as well. You have a very, very simple rythm, bam-bam-bam, bam-bam-bam, bam-bam-bam.
9 beats per page. You can easily have 9 beats with the same time inbetween and it reads instantly.
In pic related you can feel how fast the camera is moving, how much space the camera traveled between the panels and how much time passed.
Would be nearly impossible to achieve the same clearness with manga paneling.

>>8033724
Maybe it depends on the manga you're reading, but I virtually never notice the panelling in manga. I sometimes deliberately go through a manga to collect references and I routinely find myself passing by pages without saving anything because I've been sucked into the story and have forgotten to pay attention to the panelling. They're just that immersive.
It's like if you're playing a videogame, and someone asks you what button you press to do a certain action, many players won't actually be able to tell you what button it is, because the controller isn't in their mind, the button has been replaced by the action itself. They no longer think of the jump button, or whatever action, they just think jump. You've probably experienced the sensation of wanting to jump higher in the videogame by pressing the jump button harder than you should.

Please by all means share some pages of distracting manga panelling, my reference folder for negative examples for manga is lacking and I don't enjoy having to always go to western comics for negative examples. It's just as important to analyse what makes something not work, just as it is to analyse what makes something work well.

In your pic, yes the action is clear... but it's flat. Imagine yourself animating it and how you would arrange the pacing of each shot, the intensity, the sound, the movement of the camera. So little of that is baked into the comic, but it could be... if it had more dynamic panelling.

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>>8033725
This page is a good example of doing exactly what a 3x3 grid can't do.. because it isn't a 3x3 grid.
The pacing of the first 6 panels is indeed metronome like, each panel feels like it takes the same amount of time as the last one. But that's feasible in the context because it's a smooth zoom out motion.
But last panel is bigger than all the rest of hte panels, and despite having the least amoutn of text, it feels like it has the longest timing of them all. Because it is bigger. Imagine if that last panel were the same size as the rest of the panels, its pacing would be totally out of whack.
(of course my example is lazy and it would need to be redrawn, but I hope this conveys what I mean)

can you guys make your own thread?

>>8033713
>still always arranged in such an orderly way which create visual tengents and draws unwanted attention to the panelling itself
I think if you look at one page, yes. But is it true for reading the comic? As you see page after page after page, you know where the boxes are. Are the panels still bringing attention to itels?
I don't know, i should read a couple of chapter and see how it is, i can't remember how it was as i read it.
>It puts the comic on a sort of metronome pacing wherein each panel is to be read at exactly the same speed as the one before it.
Could happen, but is not necessery.
Look at the scene with the blood i posted earlier. You slow the time down by drawing similar panels with little difference in-between.
You could draw 3 panels with very little camera movement and then draw a jump, for something unexpected has happened. Right?
>Panelling communicates crucial information about the pacing in a comic.
But how is it different for manga? Like a small panel is fast and a big panel is slow? That's not necessary true.
>This has the effect of making panels which are meant to be slow feel rushed, and panels which are meant to be fast feel sluggish.
For witch panels on your pic related is it true, i don't really get what you mean exactly.

I mean if you say manga paneling looks more dynamic, i would agree. But in thers of cleraty and time passing i do not. I think a stiff grid is probably better.

P.S. lol, i argued myself into trying out the 3x3 grid for myself, actually never done dat, could be fun.

No, stop discussing manga in, let me see... manga general thread, hmm, thats strange, anyway... Yeah, you guys stop discussing manga in the thread that's dedicated to discussing manga, or else!!

>>8033710
>>8033712
>>8033713
>>8033717
>>8033719
>>8033724
>>8033725
>>8033727
>>8033731
Most of this shit is, quite literally, comicing-101. This isn't even a manga exclusive thing, Modern western comics (at least, American comics) have little style or substance, but you go back to the greats and they put forth all this info too.

If you're making comics and you don't understand that paneling represents passage of time, and how to manipulate them to force the reader to "experience" that passage, then you quite literally need to go back to the drawing board.

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>>8033724
Okay this is a pretty weird approach but since the only alternative would be redrawing each and every panel into more dynamic shapes, I hope you will bear with me.
There's probably multiple ways this page could be composed in terms of pacing, but that's exactly the point, the original doesn't communicate any. And it would be better if it were communicated.

>>8033737
Okey that's interesting.
Your picture shows, that i a string horizontal or vertical is a very shitty comic. Webtoons are shit. Your picture helped me understand why better. A string of panels is a deconstructed comic page.
But now, if construct the page back, you will lose a lot of the clearness the original page had, right? Would it be worth it to get rid of the 9 beat rhythm?

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>>8033733
>is it true for reading the whole comic?
The effect does diminish after you get used to it, but I find it's always still there. In the same way that you learn to sleep in a noisy environment after some time. You get used to it, but you're never really getting proper sleep.
>Slow the time down by drawing similar panels with little difference in-between
I find the total opposite, If a panel is too similar to the previous panel, my brain immediately registers it as the same thing and moves on as though it wasn't there. It effectively has no timing at all, but it still remains a small panel. Pic related is not a slow paced moment, it's a pretty fast paced moment because there's only one panel, one very small panel.
>How is that different for manga?
Forgive me, I often use comics to mean manga as the same medium. Sorry for the confusion. A big panel can be made to be faster, and a small panel made to be slower, but that is through the use of other techniques that also influence pacing. They can mix and match for very dynamic results. But the fact remains that the size of the panel absolutely has an effect on the pacing, and if you draw a big panel hoping it to be fast paced, you must compensate for the slowing effect it brings.
>which panels feel rushed/sluggish?
I mean in general, I'll post another pic to explain what I mean.

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Is that better?

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>>8033743
cont
What's actually happening in your panel, and how you've presented that panel need to be in balance in terms of timing.
A reader takes a fraction of a second to look at a panel and immediately determines the pacing of it. I think the primary things they look to are the size of the panel, the drawing on it, and the amount of text on it.
Ignoring the text for the moment, pic related is a full page size panel, indicating that it has a fairly long pacing, but the drawing is of a very fast motion, indicating that is fast paced. We land somewhere in the middle with perhaps a slow motion or freeze-frame shot of Spider-Man crashing through the page. This is fine.
However once you include the text, the page totally falls apart. You cannot say that amount of text in the time it takes to crash through a window, and any time manipulation like slow motion or freeze-frame doesn't help.
I find myself feeling like I have to read the text at the same pace as Spider-Man crashing through te window, which is obviously impossible. The text now feels like a chore, I feel rushed as a reader, and the action feels slow, the whole thing would be much better if they replaced the text with
>"Luck you call it!?"
If the pacing feels off, it is off.

>>8033753
Wide Rorschach aside, this is actually pretty imo, I feel like the scene is much more immersive like this. The slow moments feel atmospheric and contemplative, and the fast moments feel snappy. I can almost hear the music and sound effects when I look at it like this, whereas in the original I just see drawings on a page. The edited version hits me immediately, but with the original I feel like I have to dig to get it.

>>8033734
you are supposed to discuss MANGA MAKING not waffling on about theory. Its clear theres a gang of idea guys raiding /mmg/ every single thread who disappear when it goes on autosage and I'm sick of it.

>>8033764
I'm sorry if you don't like theory, but I think it's very important.
For whatever reason, us artists here in the west are terrible at making manga that looks like manga. We always make something subpar and I think the reason is becuase we don't understand the myriad of techniques and philosophies that Japanese artists do. Perhaps it's the lack of sufficient cultural immersion, that is to say that Japanese manga artists have been reading nothing but manga since they were toddlers, so they naturally pick up on how it's done better.
Or perhaps Japanese manga artists all get jobs as assistants and so learn through a sort of unintended master-student dynamic. I really don't know.
But what's abundantly clear, is that whenever I see a western artist attempt to make something more manga esque, their pitfalls are always because they're doing something in a western way, and they don't even realise it.
Perhaps we grow up in an artistic culture that leads us to producing nothing but garbage, I don't know. But the solution is not to continue blindly drawing more of that garbage, but instead we must pay close attention to the art of comicing/mangaing and come to understand what makes or breaks it.

>>8033765
You do have a lot of free time to shitpost the entire day writing wall of texts

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I do like talking theory but I think a lot of people just use it as a chance to shit on western comics, and I can do that any time I like.

>>8033770
I don't intend to shit on western comics.
If I genuinely didn't like them, I wouldn't care about them at all.
I don't think western comics desire to be the way they are. I think they want to be as culturally relevant and beloved as manga, but they don't know how. I don't mean they need to start drawing comics about highschool girls with blue hair and pointy chins. The thing that makes manga good is much deeper than that, and it's worth paying attention to and learning from. And I don't think people in the west pay enough attention, and that's why they haven't been able to make a believable manga-esque comic

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>>8033774
I don't think we should apply broad terminology to two entirely different industries
I don't know why this is something people do with comics and manga just because they're both art on a page
No one would do this with any two other industries
I do tend to roll my eyes when people say "western comics want to" as if western comics is one consciousness

>>8033764
It explains why these threads seem to zoom to 300 in the span of two days and then it eventually begins the 5 day slow decay process before I have to make another thread. I've noticed the pattern too.

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>>8033717
The problem is, you don't really know how modern manga art would look in a stiff grid, cos it never happens. The Japanese are very tradition oriented. They usually draw manga that looks like manga. I mean it's same for Americans, and French.
Maybe because i'm neither of those, i don't see why you should stick to one formula or another.

>>8033719
>Pic related is not cinematic. Pic related is boring.
Yes, would be boring in a movie as well.
That's not how a good drawn dialog with a stiff grid should look like.
>It's not the finished the product
Story board is a string. As i said before. A string of panels is a very, very bad comic in my opinion. As only 2 panels interact with each other at the same time. Often you get just one panel in a white void.
But in a 3x3 grid you have a flow and you can speed up or distract the flow by designing the panels to do so.
>>8033731
Im not sure what you mean.
The last, big panel is the slowest in my opinion, the camera moves and then it stops and shows a wider angle of the whole scenery. I think it works greate.
Im not sure what your picture supposed to say, honestly. It looks much worse than the original. The page does not a conclusion, like in the original, it just stops.
>>8033743
>You get used to it, but you're never really getting proper sleep.
Hmm, i feel the same with webtoons, the white void is extremely distracting for me. Millions of Koreans like it.
I don't mind the 3x3 grid, i often find it better than manga, that's too extravagant with paneling.
I wonder if it's a psychological or cultural effect.
Even though i find the vertical gutters sometimes weird cos my brain sometimes tries to connect the panels vertically.
>It effectively has no timing at all
That's one of the worst comic pages ive ever seen. It has not a little difference between panels its literally the same copy pasted panel.
If the camera zoomed at least a little bit, it could work as a very slow scene, maybe.

>>8033789
Shut the fuck up already

>>8033789
>The last, big panel is the slowest....
I think we're agreeing here but perhaps i've just worded my post poorly.
The last panel (in its original form) is definitely the slowest in terms of pacing. I think it's like that because the panel is bigger. In my edit, I made that panel the same size as the other panels, to show that it was the panelling that was communicating the pacing, and by removing its size, the effect is eliminated. And so by extension, opting to have your panels be the same size has a stifling effect on timing, and the better approach is to have dynamically sized panels.

>>8033761
>I feel like the scene is much more immersive like this
I don't know. I am much more used to the manga layout, but i like the rhythm of a 3x3 a lot. I like how you can design the whole page and how much more the panels interact with all the other panels on the page.
But probably i like it because it is a better illustration, not necessary a better storytelling device.
>>8033764
But i need to know what kind of paneling to use for my manga, right?

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Okey, my last theory post for today, guys.
There is a cool book by a German designer - Grid Systems, about grid systems in graphic designs. He uses mostly invisible grids to aline texts and pictures on page.
Maybe the trick for comics is, using a grid but not making it too obvious.

>>8033743
>Pic related is not a slow paced moment, it's a pretty fast paced moment because there's only one panel, one very small panel.

I just skimmed the thread to open the pictures. This one, without being influenced by the debate, definitely communicated sliwness to me.
A heavy moment.

Bot thread
Nice knowing you anons

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>>8033797
I disagree. What is the focus with such a method? Graphic design? Whatever it is, it's something different from the story itself.

From what I can see, there are some traits about comic panels.
Drawings in comic panels are derived from our own vision. That is to say, what we see with our own eyes. Technically we see a circular image, since our eyeballs are circular, but generally it is harder to look up and down than it is to look side to side, so our vision is more of an oval. It's easy to convert this oval to a rectangle without much loss. So a landscape orientation is the most natural to our eyes. This is why movies and scenery paintings are typically landscape.
However a book is typically written in a portrait format, because that is convenient to text. The shape of a book has nothing todo with vision.
A comic book jams the two together. Couple that with the need to put text somewhere in a comic book and you find yourself naturally making the panels more vertical than you'd like. Comic panels are vertical as a matter of compromise, but the contents within them are imagined as landscape.

A comic book is printed at a certain average size, we hold a comic book at a certain distance, and our eyesight is of an average quality. This means that there is an objective notion of a panel that is too small to be easily read. So panels must be of a minimum size. This means there's also a limit to how many panels can fit on a page.

We read panels in order, and if we can't tell which panel is next, we get confused. So panels must be arranged in an obvious way.

Add in the stuff mentioned previously about pacing and mood and stuff. It's clear that these things must be the directing force behind your panel design, and attempts to deviate from them incur a loss of readability.
Pic related is charming but totally incomprehensible.

Do you guys "cheat" with patterns and special brushes or do you only use pens and screentones? Wondering if it's worth going down that rabbit hole

>>8033653
thanks anon. were there pages or panels in particular where the text is too small/hard to read? usually it looks fine when I scan it to my desktop but I have had others say there's parts that are too small.
>Overall the style of this comic is very weird so I think not many people would like it, but as an unc I thought it was funny throughout.
thanks, yeah it's definitely targetted at a specific kind of person, most who have seen other chapters have remarked it's alright but the ones who like it, really liked it.
>I can't say much about the ending for the chapter because I don't know if this a ongoing story or an isolated gag, I expected something punchy at the end.
this chapter is still introducing some ideas so I can see the ending being a bit weird if you hopped right in, I'll see if I can come up with something to round it out
appreciate the feedback anon!

>>8033846
Its not chaeting, its part of the process.

>>8033426
this is such a common trope that i feel it needs no explanation

>>8033846
>Do you guys "cheat" with patterns and special brushes or do you only use pens and screentones?
I would if i had such tools irl, but not digital. I don't want to rely on any kind of algorithm.
>>8033861
Can you think of an example where exactly that happened?
Calling someone fat is a western thing, i can't remember that happening in a manga or anime.

>>8033846
Dude you're already using a drawing program that allows you to instantly undo a mistake and transform an isolated selection, apply filters, etc etc etc. My stance is as ling as you have to manually apply things yourself AND the end result matches the art style you have that you've drawn with a regular pen brush, then there isn't an issue. We have actual mangaka doing self-interviews or are interviewed by some JP news and on video they are shown using 3d models and all sorts of brushes and computer tricks out the ass to get a panel done so they can move onto the next panel.
>inb4 some fucking jeet comes in to compare it to AI
The difference is that it was all still applied manually with the digital stylus. And no, I dont care about being "left behind" because I never wanted this as a job since day 1, I am doing a comic for fun. Take your bait elsewhere.

>>8033650
>https://litter.catbox.moe/nakm43ju4blprlwb.pdf
Are you the same guy who posted the rabbit morty comic?

>>8033891
>>inb4 some fucking jeet comes in to compare it to AI
I'm a Luddit and I'm keen to do the same comparison.
Unironically i saw how bad the no rules only tools mentality was like 10 years ago. Photobashing, 3d overpaints, filters, textures all the concept-monkey shit that was made popular. Many are surprised by the development of aislop, for me it was a logical conclusion of the trend. I was only surprised with the timing, i thought we would have decades ahead of us, before something like that would happen.
Anyway, i should stop shitposting and continue drawing.

>>8033789
not manga

>>8033893
no that's someone else, I've only posted the mario conspiracy comic and a short one shot a long ways back

>>8033694
I'm not letting this one slip past because I really like seeing how you're coming along. I like the action in this sequence, especially the circular swipe/hop in the second panel. The only thing I think you need to be aware of is how actions fit each sequence. When you plan your major ones, they come across solid. The minor ones: Continuity speedbumps or ill fitting minor actions either need a rework or simply be cut away.

What do I mean by continuity speedbump- what happens to the necklace is a good example. The necklace needs to be on the thief, so you've worked it that in the motion of falling, it hooks back over his head. That's okay, but the action assumes I understand what goes on rather than showing it to me. Things like this can accidently make me aware that the author is trying to correct continuity rather than it part of being the natural swing even if that's not what you intended.

When you run into these minor continuity problems, there are two things you can do. One would be that as you're writing to take a second and note if it's something that's bothering you. Backtrack and try to find a way to avoid it all together, rework how it comes into his posession (he could just grab it) or give that moment explicit focus.

I think you said this action was meant for practice at some point and you've been at it for a while and that clearly shows. You might enjoy this bit, I like this story called "Mcqueen has no hands"

https://youtu.be/_4XZ9clrem4

>A Japanese manga artist has revealed that her annual income has dropped to just one-tenth from around $1,300 to $130 after digital bookstores were flooded with AI generated manga.
>And this isn't an isolated case. A Nikkei survey found that 22% of creators who responded reported a decrease in income over the past year for the same reason and another 6% have either already decided or are considering quitting the profession altogether.
>While one artist takes several days to finish a single page, AI can churn out an entire volume in just a few minutes and sell it at a much lower price. Competing with machines on speed and cost just shows that the industry is ready to trade the soul of illustration for disposable content.

So much for anti AI propaganda. While you're here having retarded debates the world has already moved forward

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>>8033909
You're spot on. Continuity has definitely been something I didn't expect going into it.
It's the small things like where the necklace is, or what hand he's holding the sword in. In this page here I realized he was holding the sword in the wrong hand, so the top panel serves to not only show him jumping, but also switching the sword to the correct hand.

The comic is indeed for practice so it's good that I've noticed this here and not in the real thing where it might get me stuck in a corner.
I've been making this one, one page at a time. I think whenever I make the real thing I'll want to sketch out many more pages at a time before finishing them, perhaps that'll highlight such continuity problems before they become a problem

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There is no cheating, only tools.

>>8033917
The way you avoid showing her panties in all these scenes is some Murata level shit.

>>8033949
Uhhhhh, that's a boy, and he's freeballing.

>>8033648
I don't like bad art at all, but it's more tolerable than something with good art I don't like. I think manga is a lot more nuanced than "art & story" btw.
>>8033678
MCU is better than most people here.

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>>8033949
This one is my personal favourite so far

>>8033949
Also yes it is a boy I'm afraid

>>8033648
art is pretty much 99% important for indie or amateur stuff. The sad truth is most people online today are not capable or willing to appreciate a good story past bad art. That's just the truth. Good art will attract people and then they'll give it a chance and enjoy it even if it sucks. Bad art but interesting story will only attack people who were born before the internet existed, and that's a small number of people online.

>>8033964
Good art basically communicates at a surface level "I, the author of this manga, care enough about my work to have put in 5,000k+ hours studying illustration."

>>8033953
>>8033959

according to the artist, does it matter?

>>8033972
it only communicates that there is a good artist behind it. Its never that deep.

>>8033986
It's the simplest indicator of whether or not a manga will be good. Someone with good art usually has the willpower required to make good manga.

>>8033990
sure but you shifted the goalpost

>>8033993
Not really. I just elaborated on what good art communicates.

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>>8033297
He's wearing a helmet, anon. No room for sunglasses. Well, characters are always the worst part, the rest of the page should be easy now.

>>8033904
It's very similar in nature. A text of wall about a media product. I think you are both American millennials, socialized similarly.
For me as a trans-Japanese person it's hard to identify with. We Japanese people are less absorbed in hyperreality and intertextuality.
As a Japanese i do not care for 911 eighter, so i don't think it's for me.

>>8033990
I totally disagree. If we define good art as fully screentoned and detailed with effects and all the bells and whistles, this doesn't mean it will be a good story to read. It actually doesn't say anything about the story except that its trying to make up for a shitty one.

You can just tell with most indie manga from the art style what their writing level is likely going to be or if the story is going to be unique or interesting. Like there's a point where its like an empty shell, the writing is completely banal and its impossible to understand what any character is thinking or feeling. But because the art is good, people will think "well that was something." and move on and forget the plot.

A manga with bad or even just decent but an excellent story will go unnoticed because most people are not looking to be moved or excited by a story. Only if they are told the story is great and they see that it has social proof will they look past the art.

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>>8034031
You cannot separate story and art in manga. Art only compliments a story and brings it further to life. Two example being injuries and food. If you cannot draw food realistically, how is it going to invoke hunger in the reader? How is it going to look appetizing? If you cannot draw an injury well, how is it going to make the reader wince or feel concerned or disgusted?

Think of it like a novel. It doesn't matter how good the story is if the book is written poorly. If it overuses words, make typos, misuse words, if it reads very dryly, etc then the book is poorly written. Few people are going to care about such a story.

>>8034046
counterpoint: OPM

>>8034073
Got hype after it was redrown by Murata. Got even more hype after high quality Madhouse series. Lost hype after second season that was drawn badly.

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>>8033438
yes
>>8033463
I'm subleasing this OC from chris chan so he's the one who'd get sued

>>8033469
this contest looks like fun, hopefully many of us will submit together

and big cheer for galknights & pig authors for their submissions, it takes a lot of gusto/dedication

>>8034017
Have you posted the collected pages anywhere?

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>>8033469

>>8034073
As a big fan of OPM myself, I don't think I would've ever heard about it or read it if it was only the webcomic. This doesn't even necessarily mean that I would've rejected it, but also that other peoples rejection of it would've made me unlikely to find it.

>>8034105
Not yet. They're still all spreaded out through my DeviantArt. You can just search for Zikari007 there if you want to have a look.

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>>8033698
>>8033708
A fundementally narrow-minded approach to art
Art can require several read-throughs to fully understand and that's totally fine. I've recently been reading Blood Meridian and it uses a lot of language I'm not familiar with, as well as incredibly long-winded and run-on sentences because Mccarthy avoids commas like the plague, and it is an absolutely amazing book. Even though I sometimes have to go back a bit and read things again.

This aversion to ever, at any point, making something that may require a second pass to fully understand, is how Hollywood executives think children's movies should be made. This spoon-feeding approach is just one way to make art and it's sure as hell not "cinematic" - I've watched a lot of movies I have to rewatch once or twice to understand the cinematography of. In fact, I often have a problem with a lot of movies today drawing out their shots too LONG in case someone isn't paying attention and watching their phone during the film or some shit.

Ignore me. Just testing if I got banned

>>8034169
Will do, fun fact though, you can delete posts too by either selecting the 3 dots on the side if on ios or on pc, select it with the tick on the side and then press delete post on the bottom right of the page

>>8034116
That’s a good point. As i got older I started reading the old Greeks. The Odyssey for example. It’s quite complicated, it has a rhyme structure a lot of names. It’s like puzzle. Sometimes i had to read a sentence 5 times to understand.
After that i tried to read Dune again and later on to finish a Kings book I started years ago. And it felt very shallow to read. This books use a seamless style of prose and especially Kings text is very stretched.
An easy to read text with low density of information. I started to read faster and faster. It felt like eating slop. But the low density made me read even faster, i was binging the shit because it was written too easy. I just stopped.
Since then i only read dense books to stimulate my little brain. That’s like a shot of whiskey its strong and it has a complex taste profile. King is like American beer deluted with a ton of water and you have to binge down a bucket full of it to feel something.
Im not sure i feel the same with comics. I see One Piece i get a headache. I see a French book with a quadrillion panels on one page and i don’t feel like I want to go through it.
Is there a statistic how dense the people prefer their comic pages to be?

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Isn't it strange, that mangaka refuse the realistic drawing/simplified rendering style altogether?

>>8034107
Are you French? Your faces look very French?

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>>8034116
Well, I guess I can't deny that I do indeed have a narrow-minded approach.
There are many comics and other things that profess themselves to be deep, and perhaps they are deep, perhaps they do require multiple readings to understand, and perhaps if one does come to understand them they will discover a profound wisdom within them.
But I couldn't care less about a comic of this sort, because it seems every indie comic is like that. They fill the shelves of recommendations lists, their fans flock to their aid proclaiming them to be the greatest literature ever written, but you know what? Nobody cares about them.
At a mainstream level, nobody has ever heard of them, becuase they are niche. They are totally niche because they hard to read.

It's not niche itself that I have a problem with, but it's niche in the context of where comics are as an industry.
We don't need niche right now, we've got a niche, frankly niche is all we do have, and it's not paying the bills.
What we need is something easy to read, something that appeals to a mainstream audience, that can bring in millions of people, people who will then, after they've exhausted the mainstream titles, will go on to read those more niche titles, and the tide will rise to support everyone.

If there already existed a robust comics industry, I'd probably be right there with you singing the praises for more avant garde works, but from where I'm standing, it's like if I were in a fledgling little village in the middle of nowhere, with people barely surviving, and my son wants to be an opera singer. That's all fine and dandy, but we could really do with someone who wants to be a fisherman instead.

>>8034297
The trick is to have two layers in your comic, one for the midwits and one hidden for the big brains.

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>>8034282
This is exactly why people like the way older games looked. I am one of the few people who doesn't like RE4 and MGS3 remake simply because, these companies genuinely release shitty ports of the original to make the remakes look superior. Older games chased reality in a way that was similar to how artists chase reality. Simplification was key. But now we are going in the opposite direction, you wanna make everything extremely complex, countless micro-detail. An idiot admires complexity. If you make something so complex that his mind simply couldn't comprehend it, he will think you are a god.

>>8034300
yes I think that's good to do. So long as the deeper part does not diminish the readability of shallow part

>>8034300
>one hidden for the big brains
Yep, this is for the stuff that could get you killed for saying out loud. Hunter X Hunter is the best example of that.

>>8034304
>Hunter X Hunter is the best example of that.
Exactly, the midwits get the stupid fights and the high-iq master race can watch shotas in short shorts running arround.

>>8034302
It's not even about style in the upper picture the material of the pants looks like fabric. In the slop version the pents look like made out of melted wax.

>>8034310
>In the slop version the pents look like made out of melted wax
It looks like they're covered in mud to me. You know, like he's just been crawling through the jungle.

>>8034326
Sure thing pajeet

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>>8034328
>>8034310
Boy is your face red!

>>8034331
Yeah, that looks way more like the top frame, haha, pajeet you are literally shitting yourself you bloody fuckin bloody!

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You guys seriously not spending 12 hours drawing a single panel, right?
You're aware that your average dopamine-addicted-brainrot-goycattle will just glance at it for only 2 seconds, right?
Right?
Haha.

>>8034345
>12 hours
I would say the artist lacks the ability to make good judgements. Simply profit and loss analysis would be enough. Why are you drawing? To convey a meaning? Then the 12 hours are wasted potential. Are you drawing because you enjoy the process? 12 hours are nothing. Are you drawing to earn money and survive? 12 hours are wasted potential.
>that your average dopamine-addicted-brainrot-goycattle
Who cares? the average goycattle simply likes what he is told to like, he hates what he is told to hate, either by the corporations or by their parents, or by religion, or by their country. One should never consider them in any artistic venture.

>>8034345
I don't buy that this took 12 hours.
The design is basic, you could probably find the designs for all of these by just seaching for weaved basket, ornate chalice, and ornate table.
The underlying 3d forms of the drawing are basic, it's just a bunch of roughly cylinderical shapes in simple perspectic.
Filling in the details would be just a matter of careful drawing. The pattern on the table would take maybe 30 minutes to outline and another 30 minutes to fill in.
The objects on the table are just alot of small details, like the weaved basket is just alot of little lines.
I see a couple screentones over the whole thing.
This really shouldn't have taken more than 2 hours.

>>8034345
Pajeet, a good mangaka is deliberate and strategic about his details.
You need detail to guide the eye, not to show how hard working you are.
That's one of the biggest problem with Japanese manga, they shit over the page with details, like you pajeet shit over your streets. Especially in the backgrounds.
Thats Renaissance style of drawing in Europe. Later on western art developed much further and such middle age techniques. French Academys would not teach to draw like that.
Guptills book shows how details aren't just dead weight but must be designed to enhance the storytelling.

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>>8034345
5 minutes with AI and your average dopamine-addicted-brainrot-goycattle won't even bat an eye.
It's over for human artist.

>>8034345
>>8034356
Thats the same shitting bloody pajeet by the way

Did someone link this thread on /v/ recently? Where did this annoying faggot come from?

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>>8034345
>>8034356
https://x.com/Doriku51/with_replies

HAHAHAA, your literally some third worlder

Why would you comment directly under that tweet, are you that low IQ or is it bait?

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>>8034356
>>8034345
You should try drawing it in 20 minutes, see where it gets you.

I wont get into the specifics but unfortunately that artist has better genes that you, and you'll never be able to do what he does. His people built one of the best countries on Earth, your people are basically indians.

>>8034374
actually i take that mostly back about the Indonesians, I got an Indonesian friend whos pretty awesome, but be better AI dude

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Hope I'll have the energy to maintain 1 to 4 pages of this quality every week

>>8034377
its definitely possible, but try not to get burnt out, and lose your passion.

I was drawing like 4-5 pages of my comic every week last year, just autistically staying up until like 2am, even when I had work at 9, but now its taken me like over 2 weeks to get one shitty page done, like I sit down over the weekends and I just cant draw (although i can cope a bit cause my current job takes up my whole week).

Looks cute though, you gonna color the whole thing?

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How do people even come up with all those interesting composition shots?

>>8034347
Let's see your copy of it with the time attached.

Has anyone interest in working with public domain material? A couple of interesting movies and comics will enter public domain in the next couple of years. Could be an interesting project to make a comic version of a movie or a parody with known characters.
But i think you would need to have a very appealing art style for it to work, otherwise a quadrillion pajeets will bring out their slop and no one will notice you.

>>8033909
Insightful

>>8034370
>Indonesia
But of course

>>8034017
Is the screen supposed to be at an angle? I think if you moved the mounting nuts down (on the horizontal support), made the vertical pull handle parallel to the screen and applied a little bit of foreshortening it wouldn't look as flat

>>8034412
Wait I see you did a little foreshortening actually that looks good. But I still think it should be parallel to the screen. Also the square piece on the left could use a little bit of a taper.

Has anyone managed to compile a pastebin/archive of all uploaded work from this general? If not, reply to me with a link of your work and I'll make it

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>>8034282
It's strange, because it isn't true.

>>8034302
Beyond "realistic" vs "realistic enough," the top image also just has such better composition. Look at how the light falls over the chest and shoulders but not across the underarm, look at how it leaves the left half of the face still in light even though it may technically be inaccurate to reality. It brings your eye naturally to the heroic figure of the character and to his face, while the shadows falling across the left half of EVERYTHING in the bottom half draws your eyes to... what? His right shoulder?

The more realistic brush shadows in the background also muddy the image, because my eye is partially flickering through the leaves trying to discern what the shadow being cast is, meanwhile in the top image, there's nothing interesting or visually complex going on in the background. Its mud with some beams of light coming down.

>>8034417
It literally is true, what are you talking about? Show me 1 counter example if it’s not.

>>8034377
very cute, it should be doable if you draw extra on good days so you are ahead.

Man, making comics is so much hard work. Trying to keep the characters consistent, thinking of good images to go inside the panels that go with the word balloons and sound effects, endless backgrounds, etc.

I firmly believe if you don't create you aren't allowed to critique.

>>8034413
Thanks. Yes, it's supposed to be angled.
>Also the square piece on the left could use a little bit of a taper.
What do you mean? I don't know what taper is.

>>8034187
They don't show up to me on pc.

>>8034388
They are autistic freaks, that's the only difference with you. They can be hunched down on a screen, paper or desk board drawing all day everyday the same shit and "coming out" with stuff just by repetition. If you don't have that mental drive or dysfunction, you can't produce that same result, just by "wishing it" or discovering some "secret shortcut".

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>>8034527

>>8034527
You don’t need to be a chef to know when the food tastes bad.

>>8034527
>I firmly believe if you don't create you aren't allowed to critique.
You just have a weak ego and can't take criticism, so you want to add barriers between yourself and the truth. If someone calls you shit and posts art that mogs yours, you will just come up with some new place for the goalposts of critique to sit.
>b-but I worked a lot on it
Still doesn't make it good. There are no gold stars for effort when it comes to art.

>>8034641
>>8034650
That's not critique, that's feedback.

>>8034377
Start building up a stash of storyboards then mate so you can afford an occasional break. A stitch in time saves 9 and all that

>>8034651
Movie critics and book critics are not film makers or writers, art critics are not artists. In fact their qualifications are usually nothing. However, their "feedback" is still regarded universally as critique.

>>8034654
None of these people actually matter though, those "jobs" are usually pushing for some agenda instead of actual art quality which they don't understand beyond a surface level because they lack the skills.
>universally regarded as
That's a fallacy, it doesn't make their feedback critique even if it's more "educated" than a random redditor's.

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>>8033694
Posting page, double whammy this thread

The lighting on this page is not minimal due to laziness but rather an experiment to see if such lighting setups are suited to indoor environments like this.

>>8034654
>In fact their qualifications are usually nothing
It's kinda insane that the goyim have been conditioned to accept this as actually being a good thing.

Do people really outline stuff using fine liner?
I bought some not long ago, but holy fuck are the strange. They feel almost as bad as digital but without all the digital cheating benefits.

>>8034676
I don't know the percentage, but having watched Manben, in that show, of the traditional artists, atleast like 30% of them use fineliner instead of dip pens.

>>8034680
Crazy stuff, for me it feels like i have zero control. It may be fine for backgrounds, but people i need my dip nib otherwise it looks like i have drawn it drunk.

>>8034690
For a tool designed to make consistant uniform lines, there's a surprising amount of line thickness variation you can get out of a fineliner. But it is overall a very fine line so artists that do use them, tend to build up thicker lines rather than drawing them in one stroke.

They all use very thin fineliners, like 0.05 and 0.1 mm. And it's pretty common for them to actually use a three pen system, that is, they actively use three pens of varying levels of wear. A new pen produces very bold lines, but a more worn out pen can create more delicate or wispy lines, and they make use of this to get the right look in their manga.

>>8034658
This is good

you guys ever have that random moment where you suddenly unlocked full control of your lines and everything comes out right the first time?

>>8034676
>>8034690
Its a tool. If you know how to tell it what to do, it will do it. I only use fine liners.

I pretty much only use .05 Sakura Microns, but I have like, 5 of them in various states of wear/dryness because you get totally different line qualities. As they wear further and dry out more, I rotate the lower ones out, and newer ones in.

>>8034696
>there's a surprising amount of line thickness variation you can get out of a fineliner.
Don't know about thickness, as the tip is very thin, i don't really press too much. But if you are light-handed and faster it starts to skip and you can get sketchy pencil look but with ink. Yeah, but it teaches you bad behavior in my opinion.
>>8034703
Sometimes, but not as often as i would wish.
>>8034715
>If you know how to tell it what to do
It has no side stabilization, like a g-nib has, maybe i would have to press harder, but that does not feel right.
Anyway, i bought it to do sketchy hatching sometimes. Ive seen quite a lot of people on insta use it to line out manga pages. Tried it out and was very surprised how bad it worked.
P.S. it's not eraser resistant as well.
P.P.S. drawing over a lot of pencil build up feels even worse and makes it even less eraser resistant, haha.

>>8034726
>It has no side stabilization, like a g-nib has, maybe i would have to press harder, but that does not feel right.

I don't even think about shit like that. I just put the tip of the pen on the paper, and move it from point A to point B.

If anything, I have tried dip-pens and have found them horrible to use. I might be retarded, but the first few times I tried to use them, I just immediately broke the tips off a couple, and then I just had issues with ink blobbing up on one spot, and I though this is way too complicated when I can just get what I want out of regular fine liners, so that's what I went back to and never looked back.

Guy do you think there will be enough people who can read in a couple of years?
I get a feeling as if the levels of human retardation are growing exponentially.
Im afraid in 10 years, your comic is rather ultra simplified, no text, webtoon for smartphones, or you will be considered indie avant-gard auteur and will be read by a couple of Amish defectors.
I mean to do it even with movies, everything is centered, so it can be posted in vertical format, plot is simplified and spoken out loudly, for people on their phones. Webtoon format is beating manga in popularity.
Very soon we will live in a world with a drastic cognitive decline. Will be no fun, i can tell you guys.

>>8034730
>I don't even think about shit like that.
A proper dip nib is gliding over paper like an ice skate shoe over ice. I can't really draw straight lines without it.

>>8034748
That's not a demoralization attempt. I will keep going, so should you.
Just a philosophical question, if everyone is retarded, who are you drawing for?

>>8034748
Most things like magazines and newspapers are already written (and have been for probably half a century) at about a 6th grade reading level.

You already kind of have to write as if your audiences has light retardation.

>>8033496
>These guys know (from experience) that trying to guess what people like as an amateur isn't going to get you far. Leave that to people with experience; they've been around longer and have more data to work with to recognize what it actually is readers like about a work.

That's what they think.
I think with video games in the West we witness the discrepancy between what the experts think people want vs what they really want. This phenomenon exists in every field, it's just not as obvious. Data knows very little.

>>8033530
Advice for you: stop fighting these fights and attach your best work to it.
And don't try to tell me it's disposable, you are clearly proud.

>>8033896
>Unironically i saw how bad the no rules only tools mentality was like 10 years ago. Photobashing, 3d overpaints, filters, textures all the concept-monkey shit that was made popular

I miss the golden age...

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>>8034107

>>8034283
Je sais pas ce que ça veut dire.

when formatting japanese text in speech bubble:

Does it follow top align or centre align, i've seen both,
obviously aligning anything but centre in english would look wack.

>>8033945
Which tools did you use here?
The only tools I know are layers, ink brush, pencil brush, lasso brush, and chrome brush.
I don't know layer effects also. I did use opacity before. Color wheel usually just white, greys, black.

I am at lvl 2 tools-wise.

>>8033993
>>8033990
>>8033972

I think the goalpost didn't shift much. Hiring a good artist shows just as much commitment as studying art for 5000 hours (good artists are crazy expensive).

>>8034297
This comic is so good

>>8034779
>That's what they think.
I'm saying you should listen to what they think on this matter even if you don't like it, because they've seen thousands of noobs try and fail.

It's what I think too. It's silly to look at popular manga and think "I know what people like about this".
Why is that silly? Because we can't come to an informed conclusion about it. We don't have access to pretty much any of the data that would inform such a conclusion, all we can see is a tiny, tiny fraction of people talking about it. But the editors do. The authors might have some of it too. If there's anybody who can claim to know why readers like any given work, it's them first and foremost and random people on the internet far below them.
If we were trying to figure why people like a given work, we'd probably be wrong. And thus if we were trying to apply that incorrect conclusion to make a popular work of our own, we'd confidently rushing down the wrong path.

Look I get it, if you think you're right then nothing I can say will convince you. I just think it's a very childish kind of stubbornness to think the experts in this field are as clueless as you or I are. I wouldn't be saying this about video games, by the way. That's an entirely different situation.

>>8034795
>when formatting japanese text in speech bubble: Does it follow top align or centre align, i've seen both
Top align, generally. Though editors will be doing the final text placement and formatting anyway so you don't have to think about it beyond drawing the speech bubble.

>>8033568
He almost certainly means Westerners actually publishing in Japan, not EOL manga or even VIZ originals stuff.

>>8033559
You should have hope, the artist of Meaheim is some random white chick and she made it. Even if Asians will need to spend less time on nailing a manga-like artstyle that's only one metric by which they're "ahead of the game" and is totally something manageable. I'd actually argue that the individualist ego is the bigger thing getting in the way of a lot of Westerner artists regardless of race, so if you're not repellent to critique and do your due dilligence with studies you can get there.

I started tracing from AI now since it saves a lot of time and gives better results. But no one will ever figure out it's AI because I'm a fucking genius.

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>>8033408
Shihei Lin is recruiting artists to adapt their writers' work into manga.
https://x.com/SHIHEILIN/status/2096831375689257158

>>8034974
What is shihei lin even?
Anyway, im doing the M Hampton head construction right now, after finishing i could give it a go. What is the story even about?

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>>8034377
I'm only going to color chapters that are 2 pages long max since it is more time consuming that I've thought. (And could also make an eventual TPB release 3 or so years from now cheaper to make and produce)

Some quick ink test.
>>8034974
I tried to read the homepage with machine translation, it's hard to understand.
Is it completely open in regard to theme, style and page count?
And the deadline is the end of this year?

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>>8035028
>Some quick ink test.

Kadokawa Manga contest has just started, and it’s open until February. If you’re the type who never enters contests because you don’t realize they’ve started until it’s too late (or that’s your excuse), here’s your chance.

https://kadokawaworldmanga.com/contest/

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Can you give me some info on indie/amateur editors? How can i find one, do they work for free, i can't obviously pay them in today's economy. Even drawing materials are absurdly costly.
Does someone work for exposure? For credit's on my not existing manga i mean?
I'm speaking of both, literal editor, who fixes my writing mistakes, style, cuts unfitting dialog, changes a voice of a character if it's unfitting, changes or adds American phraseologies or phrasemes, idioms? or whatever the word is, as you can see i have no idea.
And a specific manga editor, who looks over and says like, make the boobs bigger, or change that character's personality.
I don't think one person can do both tasks. But are there even people doing it for free?

I think most people use this thread as a collective editor and beta reader, but that's not the best thing to rely on.

>>8035197
>it’s open until February
31 Jan, no?
I will draw something for it, for sure. 3 months must be enough.

I mean 31 jan is basically until feb, i'm stupid. I even need a fucking editor for my 4chan shit posts.

>>8035200
It says September 7, 2026 to February 28, 2027, unless your screen says something different.

>>8035198
>Does someone work for exposure
How can you be on /ic/ and seriously utter such a sentence?
I've never heard of an indie editor. You're better off finding a friend to read your manga for you and give you their thoughts. Editors are part of the support structure of an industry. Indies exist outside of the industry hence it makes little sense to expect to find one so easily

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Thought I'd be done by now but I haven't touched this in a week, This page took so long and I don't like it, but at least this is the last time I have to draw this old bitch

Hi, I’ve written a bunch of material for an idea that I believe would work much better as a manga than as prose, and I was wondering where to start.

I draw, I’d say at an intermediate level. I can draw what I want if I put my mind and time into it. I’ve never had, and still don’t have, any desire to pursue manga making in the long run or anything. It’s really just for this one project, and I’m not sure what to do with paneling, so if you have any resources you’d recommend for that, I’d appreciate it.

Also, from what I know, it’s common to use models or references for backgrounds and other elements, especially in this field, so if anyone has a resource they’d recommend for that, I’d appreciate it as well.

Apart from that, I assume it starts with storyboarding, right?

*I really don't like the loops you have to go through on this website to post when you have a vpn -_-

>>8035249
>I’ve never had, and still don’t have, any desire to pursue manga making in the long run or anything.
Never show your face here again.

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>>8035249
>I draw, I’d say at an intermediate level.
You're sure about that? Pic related is what int manga looks like.

>>8035281
gege was doing 20 pages of this every week, he never lost soul and resulted to shitty anime symbols unlike murata or the blue lock artist

his splash arts/covers sucked but boiling him down to "int" is straight up disrespectful, fuck that

>>8035249
>I’ve never had, and still don’t have, any desire to pursue manga making in the long run or anything.
I recommend hiring an artist to do the drawing for you if you can. Manga really requires blood sweat and tears. It's more than just drawing too. You must understand manga as a theory.

>>8035306
His fights are very dynamic, i will give him that. A regular int could not draw such fights.
But the page i posted i would consider int.

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Now that Oswald is over, all I've been doing is doodles. Both digital and trad. Digital ink is still difficult for me.

>>8033958
Glad to see you're still making pages!

>>8035364
Any plans to start a new big project?

>>8035281
a page like this is relying on aura, idk how to explain it but the story is already established and anyone reading it is alraedy familiar with the characters and most likely loves the story. So they dont have to try as hard. random nobodies can't make a page like this because people will critique the luck out of it for not conveying any info.

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I've managed to order an author proof from Amazon KDP, but the bastards don't do RTL binding for works in English. I had to change the language to Japanese in the creator to circumvent it, but there's a high chance it will be flagged once I try to actually publish. If I change back to LTR binding but keep the content the same I'll end up with the back cover on the thumbnail in Amazon. I'm mostly doing this to just print some copies for myself, but it still irks me. For the time being I guess I'll just wait for the author proof to arrive and mull things over

So I have several ideas that might be better suited for long running manga series, I tend to read a lot of shoen style or isekai inspired stories which are all about adventuring and fighting various foes. But that might not be the best idea for a beginning manga author and artist. What kind of short form stories or pages could I attempt that still sort of fall within my interests?

>>8035451
That guy in the burger shack who insists on the hero needing extra fries. Draw four pages about the encounter from his point of view. Do not elaborate.

>>8035451
I was like you, believe me your ideas are shit.

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>>8033592

>>8035468
The solid blacks are an improvement in my opinion

>>8035462

Oh i know that lol, i still want to put stuff out to get better though.

>>8035473
Yeah, in general im liking the black and white version much more so far

>>8035475
You can just start, the way all your fav shonen started with a plan for a couple of chapters and from there you improvise.
Most likely you will not be able to finish the first chapter anyway.

>>8035480

Thats why i want to do some shortish stuff instead of doing a full chapter right off the bat to get into things and see what works.

>>8035486
Draw scene from your long manga.

>>8035426
You should use Comix Wellspring. I printed my books with em a way back and the quality is good, and they have an option for RTL printing. Also even they dont advertise it quite right you can just order 1 copy of a book to get a proof so you dont gotta do a minimum of 10 or something

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>>8035511
Comixwellspring folded (pretty recently) unfortunately...that's who I was going to use as well. Their comic printing folded back into Greko Printing, but their site doesn't look nearly as intuitive as the comixwellspring site used to be. The way they word it makes it sort of sound like a temporary thing, but it still sucks because they were probably one of the best looking comic printers around.

There's still plenty of other ones, like Mixam, Kablam, PrintNinja, etc. I'm pretty sure you can order a single proof copy from just about any of these, and you can even order materials packets to see cover/page paper weight and how the printing looks in both black and white, and color, and some of the cover effects so you have an idea of what it'll look like should you order in the future.

Hopefully, the comixwellspring thing is only temporary (that's the way it sort of sounds) that's the way they make it sound...

>>8035528
why isnt it profitable to print comics in america? you'd think corporations would be all over it like vape shops.

>>8035528
If you’re in the states check out mce printing in Washington (state). They offer rtl and are trying to be a doujinshi printer for the US market. Haven’t personally used them so can’t speak about quality or speed but I’ve heard good things.

>>8035553
>If you’re in the states check out mce printing
That actually looks pretty good. Will have to keep them in mind for when I start printing.

>>8035208
composition is great, dont be too hard on urself

>>8035009
cute!

>>8034658
very dynamic, nice

Have there ever been cases of webcomics/similar online projects staying in obscurity for literal years, 5 people reading it and all, until they suddenly blew up/got noticed by the wider internet landscape for a reason or another?

>>8035380
Not a big project, but I have a comic book coming out this month. No idea if I'll make a few issues or just keep it one. No plan for digital release, physical only.

>>8035528
Mixam gives you "digital proofs" for free. And only gives free proofs if you're doing high volume printing if I remember correctly. Also if high volume I think the printing process is different. Low volume is digital printers and high volume is plate I think? They don't have RTL, but you can place your files in that order if you like...

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>>8035626

What do you do when you don't know how to draw a scene? Just start drawing anyway and hope somethign will come out of it?

>>8035684
Yeah

I am so slow. Now that I'm starting to draw my comic, I'm enjoying the process of making my ideas come to life, but it takes fucking forever to actually finish anything. I know that's normal for comics making and especially for a beginner, but it can be hard to push through the frustration sometimes. And I have a problem with getting bogged down by details, I keep wanting to go back and change little things, which doesn't help.

>>8035684
Yeah sometimes you just have to brute force it

>>8035626
Devil's Candy

>>8035684
Draw a bunch of different thumbnails/storyboards of the scene until you get something that works

One difference I noticed drawing trad is how "big" the page feels. I mean, in digital I feel like I could draw few panels while in trad I can put more. Anyone had the same feeling?

>>8035684
Yes like the other anons said but what I do is just draw separate elements on different pieces of paper if Im still not sure how to make it flow within a comic. Then I try mixing those drawings around on a blank piece of paper like puzzle pieces to see if its working

>>8033345
You replied to my comic a while ago but I never got a chance to read yours until now
You did a really good job at making dynamic poses and expressions, especially for the pig guy
I also like the way you depicted vast spaces
The only thing I would change drawing-wise is that the transition between pages 9-10 is kind of abrupt for the sort of impact the reveal should have. I think the giant should have closed the lid with his left hand and then swung out the column with his right
Others have talked about the ending but having a foot motif for the comic is definitely a strange choice but at least it's memorable
>>8032945
This one was a breezy ride, I liked the character design and scenery but I think it would have more of an impact if the actual baseball match took up a larger portion of the one-shot
The tension that was set up was well done, but it could benefit from some more shonen-style exaggeration and build up
However, considering time was not on your side when making this, it is an admirable effort

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Can you guys stomach a manga where everyone's look is ranging from ugly to 'mid'?
I mean, not in a woke-DEI kind of presentation. I just find drawing ugly/mid chara way easier and faster than good looking chara.

>>8035791
I just call it "low humanism".
usually a very hard signal that it has cheap/pseud storytelling.

>>8035791
i never liked any of these for one reason or another, though i didnt make any particular connections