I have identified the three things that seem to keep western artists in beginner territory:1) No references.It seems like everyone insists on drawing from imagination or not drawing at all. All the great paintings from centuries past used models and set pieces and carefully placed items and clothes, and once the scene was set the painter then painted what was in front of him.Japanese illustrators and mangaka use 3D models, they buy costumes ask someone to wear them reference, and they make the backgrounds from pictures they've taken.2) "But... but muh art style...":Western artists seem to want to have their unique art style from day 1, right after picking up a pencil. They think that learning from others will ruin their creativity, as if incorporating ideas from better artists will replace their own art style and kill their originality. They see a tutorial and immediately go and see how they can incorporate it into their art style, instead of actually doing what the lesson says.3) Impatience:The best artists I've worked with (I'm mainly a sound designer for games) literally learned by picking up a "how to draw" book and following every step without skipping anything, and only after spending hours doing what page 1 tells them to do, they moved to page 2.Walk into any large Japanese bookstore and you will be astonished upon seeing that there are at least two entire floors dedicated to books on how to do stuff. "How to use a dishwasher", "how to stretch in the morning", "how to clean your own ears", "how to package leftovers so they last longer". They think that there is one correct way of doing anything, they don't have a concept of "I'll just figure it out", they don't have a concept of "learning from making mistakes". They look up how to do something and follow it word by word. That's their entire secret to being good at stuff really. They don't think they are too special to do what has already worked for millions of other people.
kys
>>8040647concession accepted
>>8040646Really delusional post.Really chuckled at the costume part. Yes, it happens, but to extrapolates such occurrence to all Japanese illustrator routines is pretty funny. The rest follows the same fallacy and furthermore ignores that Japan aline has pretty much as many failed mangakas as the West as a whole had failed mangaka.
>>8040646>born in shitholes where free speech is regulated, artistic expression is censored if it doesn't fit the agenda and you're constantly indoctrinated to worship ugliness and shun beauty>wtf why are westoids so bad?must be the weather. Asians master race
>>8040676It's the resident larper who's been here for years with absolutely nothing to show for it except his retarded "nuggets of wisdom". You can easily tell it's him because he uses the same images and spews the same jap-cocksucking rhetoric while falling to produce anything which may give substance to his claims
I feel you're purposefully not paying attention to the right artists for the sake of bait.
>>8040684>It's the resident larperWhich one? We have many here.
Posts far, in order:>direct insult>schizo rambling.>excuse.>trying to frame me as some local troll celebrity.>accusation of bait.Feels good being right.
> They look up how to do something and follow it word by word.Any Japanese books on drawing anime/manga for a complete beginner?
>>8040646Correct.>>8040733Date Naoto. You are welcome.
>>8040709 prayer
>>8040735who or what do you mean
>>8040734>Date NaotoThis guy is trash and you suck for recommending a trash instructor. He peddles books to get dumb young japs into his 1 on 1s.
>>8040747Who would you recommend instead? I haven't chosen a path yet so I'm open to suggestions
>>8040735prayer is a bit special, but he isn't that pretentious
>>8040646I'm not reading past the first sentence until you post your work. Everything written by you is meaningless until we establish a base ground of merit ie. you're not another nodraw making bait threads.
>>8040747Shut up, you /nodraw/ retard. His books are excellent for beginners and cover a lot of the fundamentals.
>>8040828>the fundamentalsRegardless of the books, this is a known buzzword and not a good argument.
if we killed all eastern larpers this board would immediately improve and we'd have a better stylistic range.
>>8040844Japan has the best artists, stop coping.Agree that faux anime needs to be nuked from the board into /co/ tho.
bases OP. dont tell retards that it easy, they need an excuse to be lazy. they dont want to hear its their own fault, its someone elses fault theyre failures.youre in the shit? shovel yourself out of it
>>8040646Many of the Japanese artists you refer to do indeed end up indistinguishable from each other, doing one of the few standard anime styles to the point their work is easily replicated by AI.A Catholic quote is “we’re all born unique, many die photocopies”Without learning on your own, you can’t develop a way of drawing or do anything else that’s your own.
>>8040900>Japanese artists you refer to do indeed end up indistinguishable from each other
Watching "good" western artists draw and its night and day vs japanese. the westoids barely do any drawing at all, they're constantly abusing liquefy and hide their shitty lines behind full rendering.
>>8040704Is that guy still at it? Once he said something about making trad oil paintings, and I thought, well THAT would be something cool to invest in, but, this stuff as digital format lost its luster and cool factor quite a lot.
>>8040921never happened lmao. my ig is full of western animators and I hardly ever see them erase a single line.
>>8040932>ig artistssweetie....
>>8040936yea like John Ripa asshole.
>>8040900>catholicngmi>>8040904Saw these and I'd like to give my two sense on itI would say I have fairly good "cognitive resolution" (this isn't a word but I know what you mean) and I can see the differences in anime artstyles. But it is definently noticable that there is a lot more asian artists that are out right imitating each other.Western artists steal things too, and I can tell that they're getting inspired from something else, but with the Asian artists, I can tell like "ok, this guy is straight trying to copy literally everything from this guy". I can tell they're not trying to put a flair on it at all, they are copying an artstyle that's good, and they are copying it perfectly. Which, I would say, is nothing to scoff at.btw heres something I made, I haven't had a drawing tablet in ages since the last one went kaput so my power level is gimped by my finger and being stingy
>>8040900You need to learn to draw by the rules before drawing from the heart. Some learn to draw by the rules and never end up putting their heart into it, as you say, but these are the only ones with a shot at being excellent. If you want to draw by the rules while ignoring the heart, just look at Korean webtoons for inspiration. If you want to draw from the heart while ignoring the rules, look at Chris Chan for inspiration. From the two, I and 99% of the population would rather look at korean webtoons.
>>8040944>asianIf you can't see the difference between Japanese artstyles and Chinese/Korean attempts at doing those artstyles you indeed have low cognitive resolution.
>>8040950No, I can see the difference between them. The Korean and Chinese tend to be distinct from the Japanese. At least from what I've seen, I don't seek any of this outAnd... the problem with that is, that the koreans and the chinese and occasionally the japanese start to copy each other, especially since we have the internet and stuff now, so that muddies the waters.Also PYW
amazing fundamentals applied on anime90% chance it's Korean or Chinesetropey Japanese themes with good symbolsJapanese or SEA 50/50 split
>>8040955here's my ethnogessur score btw just wanted to flex my ""cognitive resolution"" (not a real term, maybe pattern recognition would be better)
>>8040845>Japan has the best artistsSuch as...
>>8040970I can't think of any Japanese artists but Z.S. Liang is a really good Chinese artist
>Another Eastern V Western threadWhy do all of these threads go off topic so quickly? I don't see a single mention of Samurai or Cowboys. Anyway, I'd wager the cowboy would almost always win, the samurai is literally bringing a sword to a gunfight.
>>8040989I would say Cowboys and Samurais would be friends, considering they're really the same genre
>>8040992There's plenty of cowboy on cowboy violence in their films, and same with the samurais, so I don't think it's in their temperament to be friends.
>>8040998...true...Not to mention, they wouldn't be able to communicate, different languages and all that.
>It seems like everyone insists on drawing from imagination or not drawing at all.Staging your intent in IRL/3D is fine, but clunky and restrained. Just copying someone else's work is not freedom.
I feel like a lot of these threads just have people who don't appreciate the art, stylistically, of either the east or west... usually moreso for the west. There's plenty of great western artists and cartoonists, both hobbyist and professional, and probably more of them than at any point in history.People look at the cream of the crop eastern artists, and then compare their work to some dumbass 13 year old artist who only just got their tablet (probably because they themselves speak English, and it's less common to see bad artists of a different language), and feel as if this is representative of the entire art scene for both sides; as if all western artists are shit, and all eastern artists are good.Granted, I think a good portion of many feeling like this, is because the west is in a big cultural slump at the moment; our mainstream movies suck, our mainstream literature suck, our mainstream music suck, our mainstream comics suck, our mainstream videogames suck, etc, etc... meanwhile Japan has been going from strength to strength with their media for the last decade or so.Though there's still plenty of great stuff being made across the board, but it's the more obscure stuff (like indie games), and we're missing out on those big cultural touchstone pieces that everyone could talk about and connect over that we used to have so much of, and we're getting that from Japan.But if we're talking about just pure draftsmanship, I don't think the west is lacking at all. It's purely a matter of taste.
>Infinite replies calling OP a faggot.>Zero replies telling him that he's wrong.Interesting...
>>8041083>Zero replies telling him that he's wrong.Are you retarded? Or do you need the posts to literally say "you're wrong, OP". Even then, there's one or two that do just that.>>8040647>>8040676>>8040900>>8040956>>8041001>>8041029
>zero replies taking the east vs west bait thread #6.000.000.001>starts samefagging
>Posts a wrong assertion>Gets ass absolutely ravaged into a gaping mess in a single reply>Starts vague posting to copeThey really need to stop allowing women to go on the internet.
>>8040825kek that ear is small as fuck
>>8040646Japan actually has a healthy society while the west gets flooded with shitskins by americans
>>8040646Why do Westerners struggle to draw anime characters so much?
>>8041712Hobbyists and casuals are too afraid to copy and even among more professional/serious types (not newbie but neither established in the industry), there's a stigma against copying as a learning tool. Every artist who improves overnight will always hesitate to admit that they copied lots of photographs and their favorite comics/manga/paintings/movie shots. America has a cultural stigma against learning as it stands, but there's a taboo when it comes to admitting that you need to copy, memorize, and emulate others in order to get good at something.I honestly think this issue is particularly caused by the lack of accessible animation jobs. Learning animation will make you realize that you NEED to copy meaningfully. Tezuka had animation experience before Mighty Atom/Astro Boy, which he then turned into an anime. Manga has more in common with anime storyboarding and animation, whereas plenty of American artists do not have experience with movie/TV animation and storyboarding or comic equivalents to that of manga (with animation and animation storyboarding influence)
>>8044063>>8041712When it comes to anime/manga characters, not only does the stigma against copying hold them back, but American artists are weirdly yanked into two directions>muh photorealism/naturalism>muh wacky cartoonsAnime/manga is a combination of both. Your hobbyists in Japan are not only drawing from life (immediate surroundings, cars and buildings, people nearby, animals, etc) and photos, but constantly copying their favorite manga and studying their favorite anime.Meanwhile your average American hobbyist is going "erm, I think I'll draw from imagination more" and either only draws from life or only draws from cartoons.
>>8044063>>8041712Because western imps are unable to create beauty, and worship ugliness instead
>>8044066You're sorta right. While American men outnumber women in terms of total jobs in the industry, women outnumber men as hobbyists and amateur slash /int/ artists. Women hate women more than men do and women are conflict-avoidant. The reason why so many stagnate and produce unappealing art is the same reason they don't have the more important and expensive jobs that the men do.
