Stumbled over this video and it looks like a FOMO-tactice, is this "scam" ?
>>8049110Well what are you fucking waiting for, OP? Secure that seat nigga.
>>8049113but there are plenty KJG-videos for free with plenty of knowledge on YT.... 2k$ seems overkill for this course lul
>>8049122I see student results from this man. I don't see student results from this so called legendary Krenz.
>>8049110sometimes i wonder if having ethics has really done me any benefit at all and the answer is always no yet i persist with them like a retard, perhaps i'm just low iq otherwise i can too be shilling my shit draw course
>>804912680% of those chinese artists on twitter probably took krenz's classnekojira is one
>>8049158>80% of those chinese artists on twitter probably took krenz's classChina has real artschools that teaching asians how draw anon
You can draw from imagination right now, you've just set an imaginary bar of quality you need to meet before you allow yourself to
>>8049110Nobody can teach you how to draw from imagination, you need imagination to draw from imagination. And for that you need experience, a course won't give you experience.
> briefly look inside> a bunch of form and perspective nonsenseReal imagination heads know it's about bending shape and silhouette and not trying to recreate blender in your head.
>>8049345also this is the only good student work shown, even though the figures are stiff and he has no idea how walk cycles work.
>>8049322>just bet the dog broGet a load of this industry pro
>>8049356*petFUCK I ruined the joke
>>8049347i still think 2000 dollas are too much
>>8049110>2K bucksLOLyou can take krenz's 6 courses(basic line, basic color, figure sketch, perspective, color and light and composition) for 1300 bucks lol
>>8049306and? stay on topic retard, that has nothing to do with what i'm responding to
>>8049110Yes it is a scam. Why would you pay 2k to learn from a mid to high beg youtube grifter. This retard can hardly draw himself or apply anything he tries to teach (which is all just exercises he copied from Han, KJG, etc) with consistency. He's like barely a level above the Disciplined Drawing guy. You can take any course from actual teachers, that can actually draw for way less.
>>8049345They do have silhouettes dumbass
>>8049448youre too beg to understand sorry anon
>>8049370One K too short
Could someone chime in on if Ahmed Aldoori's digital painting course is worth doing?
>>8050056Yes, even worth to follow it and doing trad stuff.
>>8049345this guy knows
>>8049110>>let me teach you an outdated skillwhat an evil world we live in
>>8049345>>8050063Based shape bros
>>8049370Grabbed this one a few days ago. I might be too retarded for this course.
I'm just about at the point that if someone's art goal is to "draw like Kim Jung Gi" I'm just assuming their mentally an NFT crypto retard. They never show any of their own tastes, just endless people with animal heads in a fish eye lens. It's almost like these people just see art as a circus trick to perform for normies, "look at he craaaaazy stuff I draw without even having a reference" and it's just like, a guy with really big pants in space.
>>8049155>ethicsIt's playing the wrong game. Most likely he isn't really making good sales with that course but there's a non Zero chance that he would. There are people out there who do not understand a value of a dollar and will pay for pretty much anything as long as the dream sounds nice. Women as a whole buy the dumbest shit to have the audience he has he would be a fool not to make some shit course for money. It's fishing, you set out the bait and see who bites. Doesn't matter if the bait is shit if 1 person takes their course that's $2000 bux
Boomer animator btfoes the box-brained midgethttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmyVUDP4MdsConstruction slop is the most soulless form of art. The old disney masters truly had it all figured out. Return to donald and mickey.
>>8049345Pyw
>>8057190oh hell yeah i love art drama, drag that broccoli hair generation nigga
>>8057190Damn already gave 20 tabs of youtube art videos open. Whats one more?
>>8049110Clearly they understand something you don't. Most people don't care about learning as much as they do just having someone personable teach them things. The people who want quality education and are actively grinding in a tryhard fashion, by definition, are part of an extremely small minority and don't watch videos like this. The 100,000 people that like his videos, are part of the majority, that don't care much about anything at more than a hobbyist/superficial level, which is exactly what these videos and person pander to.It's called business. Now either recognize that this guy is in this to make money with art as their business venture and respect their hustle, or keep being retarded and thinking all artists have same goals. I know for a fact most people on here only have vague aspirations with nothing to show for it yet repeatedly critique people like this.
>>8049126>I see student results from...It doesn't really matter. Everyone has students that fail and students that succeed, so I never look at someone's students.
>>8057190OH SHIT is he the boomer version of ethan?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxoTwEdbbgQ
>>8057190This guy gets it. He completely understands that all of this is complete bullshit and the fact it continues to proliferate with more and more new artists spouting bullshit, actively holds artists back. Ppl like brokendraw are 100% grifters. Sure you draw well but all you can do is teach ppl how to draw and what will these ppl do if they attain any modicum of skill? Teach more ppl. It's a fucking pyramid scheme where none of these ppl will make any meaningful art.>>8057225As stated above, fuck these grifters. They are grifters in the art space taking advantage of unknowing beginners. They aren't artists, they are grifters. Fuck this guy, he deserves no respect.
>>8057190He is not against construction though, he just doesn't like box construction and grinding useless exercises in void, like the ones Brokendraw shills. He uses construction himself, as all animators do. You didn't even watch the video. And you're getting filtered by construction, which means you're NGMI.
>>8057190based
>>8057225No, fuck grifters and fuck you.
>>8057190this guy is based and wise he calls videos "movies"
>>8057426OK ur right...i watched the video now and more than anything, i am getting mad at the brokendraw guy. The audacity of him to charge $2000 for an 8 weeks beginners course - and then it's not even a small class, it's a 20 people class! He better be driving home to you and give you damn good bj's for that money. For $800, you get 10 weeks under Villpu or 8 weeks under Peter Han. $360 for 10 weeks under Karl Gnass. You can get feedback from actual masters and ask them questions (maybe Peter is a bit young for that master label). Brainstorm School and Concept Design Academy are charging ~$800 for 10 weeks as well.$2000/8 weeks is plain exploitation of beginners who want to "draw like that youtube guy". It comes out more expensive than Don Bluth's Scamcademy ($10000/year = $1600/8 weeks). And they don't even get Donnie, instead they get mindbroken by box constructions. ̶I̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶r̶u̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶w̶.Calling it an "aphasia-centric highly specific workflow" is charitable cope, that guy deserves to be blasted for this.
>>8057426You can learn from Peter Han one of the guys that brokendraw guy is emulating for cheaper then 2k what a joke anyone paying that kinda money for a art student to teach them is fucking retarded
>>8057572Guaranteed he didn't fill up his "class", I'd be surprised if he even got 1 retard to spend $2000.
>>8049110>2000 dollarinos>10 weekslolpicrel its all you need
>>8057554>>8057333>fuck grifters Same. At the same time if you're retarded enough to look at this person's work and say "I'd like to spend $2000 to learn from him" You absolutely deserve it. Same as those people who choose to buy crypto from any influencer, there's been hundreds of rug pulls and yet people are STILL falling for it. I'm tired of absolute bullshit like this and if the human race isn't smart enough not to give this fraud money then he deserves every drop he squeezes out of retarded people.
>>8057190American animators suck compared to Japanese/Chinese animators. And they use boxes.
>>8057825I will never take art advice from a chink
Am I schizo or does it feel like brokendraw selfposts on /ic/? >>8057190I watched the whole video, I don't agree with everything he said, but he is right that going about drawing everything with boxes is retarded and grinding exercises won't do anything for you (he also dissed loomis kek). I actually hope we can get more people in the art community to criticize other peoples teaching, because theres lots of bad shit out there hurting beginners. >>8057572His classes are probably 2k because he mentioned he went to an expensive animation school (SCAD I think?) so hes probably trying to pay off them student loans. Now that I think of it, it seems like everyone who does the whole "I'm gonna draw like KJG" is doing it to fool beginners into buying expensive courses that won't get them very far. Very scummy. I wonder how Kim would feel about people using his style to scam.
>>8057190pretty goodI strongly agree with him with the fetishization of memory drawing, a retarded idea that has also taken hold in this board
To get to the general topic:Did anyone here actually take any live online classes and can report? I do would like to take a Vilppu class before he dies (which may be any day now), but then I'm looking at the price tag and think it's probably not worth it. A few weeks with Peter Han might be cool too, but not $800 cool....>>8057572*correction, the brokendraw course is 10 weeks ofc, putting it at the same level as bluth academy. Exceeeept bluth lowered his price to $7500/year, apparently. Still nuts.>>8058442>$45k+/year tuition for entering a broken industryOh yes, of course, amimutts going into life-crippling debt for things that are essentially free in any other developed country.
>>8059685technically its very impressive, but at the same time it looks very... unsexy. Is sexual appeal its own skill?
>>8057190>is right about box exercises being a form of hazing>is right about imaginative drawing being some new age grift>calls out the patreon griftersYeah, this Boomer is based.
>>8059737Can you just summarize what he suggests to do? Is he calling out asian autism?
>>8059846he's calling out the obsession with soulless perspective grind, which is important, but it's being shoved into beginners faces when other things are more important at that stagehe also rightfully points out that you could get the same perspective intuition by simply going outside and sketching actual places instead of random boxes
>>8059847He seems to think people actually draw mannequins in detail and not rough stick figures.
Where did the Video Course General go?
>>8059892Like the rest of /ic/ dead and or driven out
>>8059846He's basically describing pic related. He's someone who lived in a better time, was taught and worked with some of the best animators of the 20th century and describes how not a single person from his time and prior used whatever the fuck is being shilled today as some art course. He sees art for what it should be and the soulless husk that it currently is and calls it out.It's two hours but he's spot on about most everything in that video.You're not going to get good by drawing boxes in a white void. You're not going to get good by drawing endless lines and circles.You're not going to get good by meticulously mannequinizing the human figure in box formations.Humans, animals and nature aren't fucking boxes.
>>8059892I haven't even checked Telegram for new classes in weeks. I just don't see a point anymore.
>>8059936Not even getting into how wacky the proportions and perspective are on the bottom picture
>>8057190I am at the first 30 minutes and he can't stop being based omgHopefully there are some usefull videos on his channel, because I am a misguided shit in search for guidance
>>8057190>dissing krenz/ic/ is NOT going to like this
>>8057825they don't, you've never worked on anime, they barely use construction
>>8057825American animators literally help animate your Japanese cartoons.
>>8059982meanwhile on an actual Slayers frame...
>>8060018there's an entire construction line going down her face
>>8057825I have never seen a chink or jap use boxes the way these online grifter courses suggest using them
>>8049110>>teaching obsolete skillsend days for courses, teaching skills that will neve be needed ever again.
>>8049110don't bother. just copy other illustrators and draw from imagination/reference.>>8060186saar...
>>8057190what a fucking hero. the box shit makes no sense and i hate it. seriously none of the animators or illustrators of old did that, they used a variety of shapes and rarely boxes unless it was for backgrounds/furniture or spongebob esque characters
does /ic/ just not understand what construction is...?
>>8060211yes, made up bullshit by people trying to figure out the process great illustrator's used to achieve results. everything is "construction" and nothing is. it's all drawing. it's all bullshit.
>>8057190>actual design principles taught by the old greats aren't anywhere>DON'T DO CUBE GRIDS. YOU LEARN PERSPECTIVE ORGANICALLY BY DRAWING ENVIRONMENTS AND FIGURING IT OUT>don't do these floating box compositions>you can't make everything from a box. you CAN use bounding boxes>use guidelines if you need to use guidelines>hates people using tech terms like "stacking and queuing" for new "exercises">art is not scientific and a lot of these exercises try to do that. you can make art scientific if you want to be an art forger>you don't draw figures and characters out of boxes>trying to mannequin-ize figures out of boxes is a plague>a lot of these exercises are just compounding out to make >doesn't understand where this obsession with drawing from imaginationkinda stopped taking notes at this point, but he says a lot of good. he even says the guy is a good artist and could even be an animator, but he doesn't understand why he's tying himself down with these exercises and obsession with imaginationa lot of the "exercises" too are just old techniques regurgitated that are now giving credit to people like peter han and other random people on the internet
>>8059936>You're not going to get good by drawing boxes in a white void. >You're not going to get good by drawing endless lines and circles.>You're not going to get good by meticulously mannequinizing the human figure in box formations.>Humans, animals and nature aren't fucking boxes.You're being dishonest just like how the guy in the video was. It's okay, I forgive you.
>>8060480I'm open to understanding your position on why you think that.
>>8060481I agree with what the old boomer was saying most of the video. Which was that the exercises are quite in fact boring, I too was a victim of getting bored out my mind doing boxes (wrongly or correctly). But boxes help you train a crucial aspect of drawing with is PERSPECTIVE. BUT that's all it really should be for. Boxes do help with imagination drawing and that's how I do most of my drawings now, I only ever do a rib cage for a rib cage shapedbox, and the head to figure out the head tilt I want, otherwise the rest of the limbs legs feet are placeholder shapes after the quick sketch. But how they do videos practicing boxes is really a soul crushing exercise especially for a newbie, most of the people trying to teach drawing really arnt good teachers...>Humans, animals and nature aren't fucking boxes.They arnt, but they can be used to break down the shapes of Humans, animals, and creatures, or cars etc. I dont do it for everything, when I get familiar enough with a subject, I tend to skip the box part and start putting in the closer organic line I want.>You're not going to get good by meticulously mannequinizing the human figure in box formations.Depends, you should be going the next step which is drawing the organic form over the boxes. At least for me, at worst I visually internalize the box in my head for certain parts of the human body, again mainly to know where my perspective is.>You're not going to get good by drawing endless lines and circles.Yeah this was fucking stupid, shouldn't be more than a 30 second practice and left at that.>You're not going to get good by drawing boxes in a white void. Well you need to establish a horizon line, then simply do the rest from there. But taking it to the next step is pretty crucial.Overall I do get what box fags are trying to show off but they really do a poor way of doing these exercises to try and get people to understand that its pretty much perspective training and it should only be that imo
I'm at a point in my art where I need fundamentals. Everywhere I go, I see folks recommending boxes. I have a lot of art books downloaded and am tying to start reading them, but most of them don't put anything about box perpective.Would it be cool to draw a neat box with a person inside? Yeah.Would it be cool to draw a million boxes in space? Yeah.I'm not sure what to do.Are these boxes actually helping people?I've come to /ic/ from time to time for years, but I haven't seen boxes mentioned until a couple years ago.
Box autism has done irreparable damage to this board.
>>8060513>to this boardto art in it's entirety
>>8060513>>8060515Not really, its a blessing. It killed off so many potential enemies I could have had.
>>8060519You're in a race where only you're participating.
>>8057825American animators are very very good, japanese and chinese animators are usually better at drawing which can make it look as if they were better at animation, but americans animators have an elite understanding of movement, even the lousy ones.
>>8057190So, what would you actually need to do, in order to learn to draw?
Since the video course general won't come back up I'll ask here. Has the full version of Marshall Vandruff's perspective course on Proko really not been uploaded anywhere yet? I checked the telegram and they only have a portion of it.
The old boomer is at it again, going after dab this timehttps://youtu.be/vNHPXjIECXw?is=X1cvsHxobqxnJCOY
>>8060533why does everyone want it to be handed to them? art is an evolving medium. even he admits that during his time a better artist would come in and rip their drawings to shreds, point out mistakes and improvements that they themselves didn't even notice. he also points out that using egg, bean, and other similar types of forms is where you want to start for shape construction, NOT boxes. he literally tells you what to do and how to do it, and where to get good resources to learn. watch the fucking video
>>8060492the issue is that you feel the "need" to do certain things. yes art has fundamental "rules" based upon common illusion, but, it's all just that, illusion. if you can make it convincing, do you need a massive autism grid? or perfect perspective for each form? your time is limited and drawing is based upon ideas that aren't even really there so to speak, it's three dimensions described in two
>>8060940I genuinely believe anyone who recommends dab is purposely trying to sabotage people. Imagine how many people stopped trying to learn how to draw because they didn't want to do the 250 boxes shit. I'm really glad someone is critizising these courses/teachings, it's really needed. I also really wonder why art courses have become so autistic with the construction and drawing EVERYTHING from memory.
so you didn't learn how to read in school. now for drawing, instead of free pdfs and library books you have to pay $2000 to grifters. sad. I guarantee you noone who 'made it' boughted such a course.
>>8049345Wise post. Took me too long to realize this. Learning perspective helps you make something accurate, but making something accurate and making something *interesting* are very different things. I used to be really frustrated at and kinda hate manga for bending and breaking the characters so much, but now I understand why its done like that
>>8060940Yeah ok, but this is all coming from the perspective of drawing vintage cartoons. The kids want to become concept artists and stuff. They need that stiff and boring look in their digital work.
>>8061030>I also really wonder why art courses have become so autistic with the construction and drawing EVERYTHING from memory.because it's something which is near impossible to teach, and a coveted, impressive, performance based skill. sure you can teach people to draw accurately from reference, or basic forms, or from life, etc, but then you would be out of a student in a few months. with this method, you can make the promise of drawing like that chinaman kim jung ji or whatever and keep people hooked to that dream for ages, siphoning money. he puts it perfectly in the video, "i'm not calling it a cult, but..."
anyone who watched KJG or Rembert will tell you that they never construct or draw boxes. they just start drawing whatever and then bullshit their way through. yeah, it's all in their head, the mind guides the hand and all that.
>>8060507>I'm at a point in my art where I need fundamentals.What are these fundamentals, can you name them?>>8061046>kinda hate manga for bending and breaking the characters so muchWhich is just another animation principle... return to disney...>>8060533What's wrong with landscapes, cityscapes, and figure drawing? Plus some cartoon, maybe even animation, teaching you gesture and how to bring your characters to life.>>8060533> egg, bean, and other similar types of formsThis, all parts of the human body can be accurately represented as an ovoid. Boxes, pyramids, cones, cylinders are more useful for human-made objects and insects i guess.>>8060492>Depends, you should be going the next step which is drawing the organic form over the boxes. At least for me, at worst I visually internalize the box in my head for certain parts of the human body, again mainly to know where my perspective is.How do you create an expressive gesture out of boxes, as basis for your figure drawing? Or are you tacking your boxes onto the gesture?
>>8060186>Let's plug in and make a whole industry dependent of a single productKek yes Anon, do it please, and keep that smug condescending attitude too, you won the world, you're the best of the best, you're with the winners.You fucking mediocre.
>>8049322bro is correct
