طبعة المنافقون
>>221873901This but unironically
I had a dream that I killed all the members of Linkin Park in their sleep and stole and/or destroyed their instruments.Fucking insane, I love Linkin Park.
خيط ميت
الَّذينَ يَتَرَبَّصونَ بِكُمْ فَإِن كانَ لَكم فَتْحٌ مِّنَ اللَّهِ قالوا أَلَمْ نَكن مَّعَكُمْ وَإِن كَانَ لِلكافِرينَ نَصيبٌ قالوا أَلَمْ نَسْتَحْوِذْ عَلَيْكُمْ وَنَمْنَعْكُم مِّنَ الْمُؤْمِنينَ ۚفَاللَّهُ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ يَوْمَ الْقيامَةِ وَلَن يَجعَلَ اللَّهُ لِلْكافِرينَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنينَ سبيلًا • إِنَّ الْمُنافِقِينَ يُخادِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَهُوَ خَادِعُهُمْ و إذا قاموا إِلَى الصَّلاةِ قَامُوا كُسالَىٰ يُراءونَ الناسَ وَلَا يَذْكرونَ اللَّهَ إِلا قَلِيلًا • مُّذَبْذَبينَ بَيْنَ ذَٰلِكَ لَا إِلَىٰ هَٰؤُلاءِ وَلا إِلىٰ هَٰؤُلاءِ ۚ وَمَن يُضْلِلِ اللَّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ سَبِيلًا • يا أَيُّها الَّذينَ آمَنوا لَا تَتَّخِذوا الْكافِرينَ أَوْلِياءَ مِن دونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۚ أَتُرِيدونَ أَن تَجْعَلوا لِلَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ سُلْطانًا مُّبِينًا • إِنَّ الْمُنافِقِينَ في الدَّرْكِ الْأَسْفَلِ من النارِ وَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُمْ نَصيرًا • إِلَّا الَّذينَ تابوا وَأَصْلَحوا وَاعْتَصَموا بِاللَّهِ وَأَخْلَصوا دِينَهُمْ لِلَّهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَعَ الْمُؤْمِنينَ ۖ وَسَوْفَ يُؤْتِ اللَّهُ الْمُؤْمِنينَ أَجرًا عَظيمًا
مَّا يَفْعَلُ اللَّهُ بِعَذَابِكُمْ إِن شَكَرْتُمْ وَآمَنتُمْ ۚ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ شَاكِرًا عَلِيمًا
يا ليتني مت وكنت نسيا منسيا>>221875557Fake music
this eid and ramadan were both exceptionally good compared to the last 5 years
>>221877902did homo 6 let you slaughter sheep this time around?
>>221878175>this time around?I dont know what you're talking about we slaughtered 3 last year and 4 the year before
>>221877902العيد عندما تجلس مع زنجي لا تعرفه لكن هو يظن انه يعرفك)(ابوه ابن عم جار جدتي)لعنة الله على العائلة الممتدة
>>221878208you know what I'm talking about, did the general population do itanyway good for you
>>221878366I love finding out about مرت ولد عم خال جدي who knows my entire life story although i dont even know their name or theit existence prior to that>>221878384I dont concern myself with what morocucks and their handler do but walking by the butcher yesterday it was full (people splitting parts) so yeah probably
>>221878366>>221878550>العيد عندما تجلس مع زنجي لا تعرفه لكن هو يظن انه يعرفك)(ابوه ابن عم جار جدتي)>I love finding out about مرت ولد عم خال جدي who knows my entire life story although i dont even know their name or theit existence prior to thatkek why do they do this
>>221877416FTFY
all the suffering is gone after consuming some meat
>>221879609Daang i didn't know you still posted niggaEid Mubarak
هزلت الخواجات يسولفوا عندنا كأنه خيطهم>>221879609>>221879826
>>221879826>>221879609>>221879990go back to india
>>221879990Nihao and Shalom to you too nigga>>221880012How about i come rape you
>>221879826>Daang i didn't know you still posted niggai found this website 3 weeks ago>Eid Mubarakeid Mubarak my little pajeet
>>221879990you made it this way Saar shouldn't have spread your sand religion everywhere
>>221880096So rude, wasn't allotted a spot for the child raping orgy? Your predecessor was better.
i personally piss on your holy Quran but these naive retards keeps on barking الله اکبر الله thinking إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ إِخْوَةٌ
>>221880209>>221880276This is not a Islam thread.
>>221880331everything arab is jslam ALLAU AKBAR!
>lets just alienate and push away every foreigner who comes to visit our shithole dead general so that it remains dead for goodarab ingenuity at work.>>221879609>>221879826please stay and post more
>>221880517Better a dead thread than not be our thread.
>>221880517they have a fair enough point westerners dont count Afghanistan in the middle east. K e K
>>221881374how is life in afghanistan? i assume you hate the taliban, since you seem to be an atheist. your flag is quite rare and i have only seen it on this board a few times.
the goyim have gone insane
Called it
>>221881493It's probably just a VPN. The same anon has been using flags like Iran, Afghanistan, and the DR of Congo for a few weeks now, posting just 1/2 posts to collect (You)s and then leaving. Probably connected to the leebait spammers too because they're the only obsessed faggots left on this dead shithole
>>221881493>how is life in afghanistan?typical third worlddont really care about taliban not an atheist either
>>221880452It's not an Arab thread either
>>221881933i see.>>221881374
>>221873901what does it say?
>221881374>tf>Cares about westernigger approval>221882150>>Post a picture of your window, door, electric outlet or hand with timestamp and my post number.
Hello my abrap cousins
>>221881882دری لچکی نوشته میتانم که درست ترجمه شده نمیتانه به عنوان پرووفsurprised of funding subhumans on subhuman factory award
>>221882221>Cares about westernigger approvalthat was meant for those two cuckolds above since its a ME (Middle East + North Africa)? generalwon't botger confirming idintjhg since anonymous website kn fact i can actually take a shit anywhere
>221882455Picrel is my bathroom power socket. Take a picture of some random power socket, put your skin color in the image, and post it with the timestamp. You can censor any reflections if you're worried about doxxing like i am.>inb4 talibanI piss on Mohammed, the Quran, Ibrahim, Isaac, Yakov, Moshe, Suleiman, the Bible, Torah, etc.
>>221882802I'm a pashtun Canadian jeet
Baiting as a Congolese flaghttps://desuarchive.org/int/thread/221588957/#q221589543Baiting as an Iranian https://desuarchive.org/int/thread/221796009/#q221796177>221882911>trying to bait Salafleaf into posting Hazara memes
why do nafris and pakistanis love posting videos of themselves killing cows/goats for eid? other mena's don't seem to do that nearly as frequently
>>221883397>cows/goatsit's sheep though, other animals are permitted but not the default
>>221883397Because it's funny when indians reply with jai sizebi or whatever their gods names are and angry emojis
>>221881744Israelis are men what else is new
>Izzraelis are men saaar fool sapport saar you bloody benchod
>>221883428i always confuse the words for the two of them but what about the original question
>>221881744Turkish propaganda, ikhwanis in turkeys entire survival and talking point is this heckin war with Israel that's nearing boooooo and we need to be ready to fend o-*gets notifications and checks phone, 1000 shekels received on your Bürsalim Istanbüliya* ermm i was saying fend off the kurds !
>>221884017I have no idea
>>221883942If you're so tough Egypsy why isn't your bitch country at war with them? You're neighbours.
>>221884136
>>221884077>Turkish propaganda
>>221884281Nice selfie bro
>>221884356Thanks
Anyway the economy is collapsing in real time, but you guys have the advantage because you've been poor for many yearsThe Indian leaf has the advantage because his family is on welfare, but that's gonna mean shit in a couple of years
>>221881744>>221884077On one side>Israel is very hawkish expecialy considering the lack of popular sentiment on their sideOn the other side>Turkey might get anihilated and Turks chimpout and show how subhuman they areHard choice
>>221882167Meow
why don't algerians dress like this anymore
>>221885449They dress like ancient berbers (jeans + tshirts) now to spite the arabo islamic salafi invaders
>>221885449that's one of many types of clothes people worethis specifically is kabyleanyway it doesn't matter, most people around the world renounced their traditional clothes, from california to india to the congo, everyone dresses the same really
>>221886169>this specifically is kabylehow can you tell? is it because it's white? >from californiaamerimutts never had traditional clothing
>>221886309>how can you tell? is it because it's white?color and cut is typical of that region yeah, but not anymore, only in historic photos>amerimutts never had traditional clothingmaybe not in the ethnic sense, but if you check old american clothes they had the broadly western style of hats and suits, but it now normalized to the casual wear you see everywhere
i am trying to understand the pronunciation of words in moroccan arabic.so according to wikipedia moroccan arabic has 5 vowelsuə (schwa as in ktəb)iː (long iiiii)uː (long uuu)aː (long aaaa)so according to wikipedia it says that initially the short /a/ and /i/ got reduced to a schwa ə. then that ə was deleted if it wasn't in one of these two places /...CəC#/ or /...CəCC#/ with C being a consonant and # being a word boundary).so if we take a word likekatabaand we reduce /a/ to əketebeit becomes CəCəCəthe last ə and the first ə go away because they don't satisfy the above rule.and the word turns intoktəbalso short /u/ usually merges with /ə/ except in the vicinity of a labial or velar consonant.for examplesunduuq -> sənduuqso a word like "maghrib"should become "məghrəb"but in some words likemushkilit should technically become mushkəl (i think this is how they pronounce it in some dialects in algeria)but why do moroccans pronounce it "mushkiil"where did that long /ii/ vowel come from?same for "daarija" it should become "daarəja" then the ə is deleted because it's followed by a "CV#" which leaves us with "daarja". but where did "daariijaa" come from. as some people pronounce it?i understand some of it comes from the reintroduction of short /a/ /i/ from MSA words. moroccans didn't have short /a/ and /i/ in their phonetic inventory so they approximated them to the closest thing which is long /aa/ and /ii/. and that's why we get things like "maahətta", "miistaara" or "məstaara".technicallymahatta should go throughmehettathen the first ə is removedand it leaves us withmhətta.
Hey, you guys repentant yet or should I continue my self imposed exile protest?
>>221886529>color and cut is typical of that region yeah, but not anymore, only in historic photosis there a chart of traditional clothing in algeria by region? pls share if you have oneis this type of hijab restricted to one area? or was it in use throughout the country?>, but if you check old american clothes they had the broadly western style of hats and suits, only amerimutts in places like texas or some other cowboy larp states would've used those clothes and anyway they probbaly used them for like two generation tops and then changed clothing styles lol
>His American father is from Hawaii, and is of Native Hawaiian, Chinese, English, and Portuguese descent.I knew he was part chink, it's very noticeable when he was younger.
>>221885449brutally fit-mogs the maroccaco's potato sackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXO9pmDL0m8
>>221886695>is there a chart of traditional clothing in algeria by region? pls share if you have oneif it exists I'm not aware of it>is this type of hijab restricted to one area? or was it in use throughout the country?that's the haik, it's pretty common throughout the urban areas of the north of the country but also not everywhere, for example in constantine and some of the surrounding towns they wear it black (some popular ruler died and women started wearing black haik as a sign of mourning), in a place like ghardaia women wear the one eyed haik which is their own thing (they're also the only ones who still wear this kind of clothes regularly), in rural areas this isn't really what women wear and each area has its thing, women in the south have their own clothes too that are different>only amerimutts in places like texas or some other cowboy larp states would've used those clothes and anyway they probbaly used them for like two generation tops and then changed clothing styles lolI don't mean the cowboy shit, I mean your typical hat and suit that you'd see in 1900 new york or london
>>221886538Salam, it's you hhhhhhAnyways to be concise i was in a convo with my extended family later and they used this word يامس (kngoloha l "lbare7"), where do you think it might come from or how it evolved? Short of يوم أمس ?طرݣ (trgni trgto "mchit 3ndo" possibly طرقت "بابه") And دروك (يدرك؟؟؟ since it's for a near future as well)
>>221886695>only 1 cute hijabi girl in the whole mena thread>it's from a mexicanArabs are so gay it's painful
>>221886938>And دروك (يدرك؟؟؟ since it's for a near future as well)eastern marroki?this is what we use here
>>221886881I mean we dress like that somewhat too depending on the region tho i love both equally
>>221886972>post the women you see regularly here for n other reason but to fulfill my orientalist fantasies o algowhy? only foreigners care about this shit because it's a novelty
>>221886538Where are you actually from? Pakistan?
>>221886982Nope very far from it, mrakchis use it as دروكا to say now and 3robya as دروك to say very nearby future and i even heard دروكي
>>221886916also I don't know if you realize this but this is only for clothes women wore outdoors, which tend traditionally were plain and designed to not attract attention, indoors clothes were a lot more varied, ornate and colorful
>>221887071>3robyawho is it in the morocco contextgherbawa?
>>221887153no that can't be since those are epicenter of the moroccan darja and would say daba for sure
>>221886916>wearing black haikis black also the traditional color of mourning in algeria i think it's interesting that it kinda looks like an iranian chador besides the face veil
>>221887153no ewtho they're part of itPretty much most of the population alongside and near the atlantic coast from larache to north of agadir is 3roubia aka arabic speaking agrarians and pastoralists who sometimes might claim or not actual arabic ancestry from hilal or sulaym or maaqil They're not the only arabic population since there's shrawa and some scattered alongside the east + jbala but 3robya are like +30% of the population as a low estimate
>>221887021I see plenty of muslim women daily. I live in a degenerate shaytan liberal city full of atheists, so of course there's thousands of arabs who left their perfect halal countries to live here. There's no orientalist novelty for me, it's just called being a straight man.
>>221886938no idea about يامس i hear it among my distant relatives from near wlad 7riiz. i assume it comes from أمس. sometimes initial آ turns into يا as in آجر which becomes ياجر and ياجور . or the name آمنة turns into يامنة in some variations. as in this famous northern song where they call the prophet the son of يامنة وحليمة."و اعطاك الفضل و الجوديا ولد يامنة و حليمة"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-YXgOmd0Yas for طرگ it's from طرق but not طرق الباب. the word trq is from the same root as طريق. to say طرق الطريق. means to take the path. and also it means to visit someone.> طرَق الطّريقَ: سلكَه> طرَق فلانٌ القومَ: أتاهم ليلاً طرَقَ ببالِه/ طرَقَ في باله أمرٌ: خطَر، حضَرas for دروك i have no idea where it comes form. i have heard opinions that it comes from ذا الوقت which turns into دلوقت in egyptian. the idea is that l shifted to r (which is common) and ق to initially گ. so it became دروگت.but that's a stretch. i have no clue.
>>221887153For my specific case im from around what used to be called chaouia (casablancas surroundings) >>221887175Not necessarily, daba means now, we say drouk for the near futureDaba also has this near (with a connotation on certainty) future or near past connotationيالله جيت دابا i just cameدابا يجي he will (for sure) come دروك يجيأنا كنقشر الخضرة دابا im peeling vegetables
>>221887388>wlad 7riizOur neighbors lol I dont have anything to add to your posts, just wanted to say i really enjoy them
>>221887510here the word just means "now", with its near future or near past
>>221887536>Our neighbors lollol. well my mom's family is from near the bir al jdid. they live there but they originally come from القرامشة. but apparently they say they settled there from moulay driss zerhoun. so not locals.
>>221886881cool videodo those city walls still exist? do people still gather in the marrakech city square to hang out or is it just tourist shit now? were dancing girls like those in the video from the lower classes or a specific ethnic groups?also lol @ mutts claiming 20th century morocco must be JUST LIKE palestine 2,000 years ago
>>221887388>as for دروك i have no idea where it comes form. i have heard opinions that it comes from ذا الوقت which turns into دلوقت in egyptian. the idea is that l shifted to r (which is common) and ق to initially گ. so it became دروگت.>but that's a stretch. i have no clue.actually I can provide some context for thisin algeria we have tons of variants for this word, as it's the standard for nowضرك/كا، ضروك، دوكاbut also دلوقدلوق is specifically used in skikda/jijel area which has a pre-hilalian dialectso I'm inclined to believe the theory you gave, this makes sense to me
>>221887712>>221887712>دلوق is specifically used in skikda/jijel area which has a pre-hilalian dialectthey also say فايوق for "when?"في أي وقت
>>221887646>do those city walls still exist?yeah, pic related is my city's wall gate. >do people still gather in the marrakech city square to hang out or is it just tourist shit nowsome locals still do yeah. i assume. but it's only marrakesh now. mostly kept alive by tourism.>were dancing girls like those in the video from the lower classes or a specific ethnic groups?no idea about that desu.>also lol @ mutts claiming 20th century morocco must be JUST LIKE palestine 2,000 years agoprobably not far fetched desu. morocco was still stuck in the late middle ages by the 19th century. the only attempt at industrialization was done in the late 1800s. the sultan opened a modern firearm factory in fes with modern machines and all from italy i guess. but it was later shut down. most modernization from there would be kickstarted under the french protectorate era.
>>221887798Would you count fes (and surroundings) textile, mettalurgy etc as a proper industry considering it was very large scale for a while relative to most non-european cities and possibly even compared to some
>>221887712>دلوق is specifically used in skikda/jijel area which has a pre-hilalian dialect>they also say فايوق for "when?"we also say "فوقاش" for "when" which is common all over north africa. and it's clearly from فوقت اش some moroccans say "وقتاش" without the ف or في.it's likely true.
>>221887854it's "proto-industry"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-industrialization
*crawls on all fours into the thread*I've seen some shit...
>>221888391sex with tunisian girls
>>221888457never mind. no sex with tunisian girls.my OCD told me it would go wrong.
>>221888391Hello little Muslim
eid makes me absurdly horny
i don't know how Algerians ended up with the superior Darija.like seriously Algerians are so much better at Darjizing MSA words. while moroccans just use the long vowels they preserved in their dialect to replace MSA short vowelstake the templatemaf3ala (اسم مكان مؤنث)so first keep the ta'niith final /a/ that can't go away.then the other /a/s should turn to schwa so it becomes"mef3esa"then both schwas should be removed because don't satisfy the rules mentioned earlierwhich keeps us with monstrosity of consonant clusters"mf3la"in this case one of the consonants in between two consonants gets vowelized.it's either /f/ or /3/ in this case.leaving us in either mef3laormfe3laso "madrasa" in darija should become "medrsa"or "mdersa". but moroccans pronounce it "medraasa". algerians (at least from what i have heard on youtube seem to pronounce it closer to "medrsa"same for >mif3ala (اسم آلة مؤنث)turns into>mef3elaschwas go away>mf3laone of the middle consonants gets vowelized>mef3la or mfe3laand we have examples of these "mterqa" and "menjra (as in mehdi el menjra)"but moroccans don't apply it to everything. for example instead of saying "mestra" they say "mestaara"
>>221888976
>>221888879Eid makes me absurdly annoyed I don't wanna meet anyone I don't feel at all like it's a special day and I don't feel at all compelled to pretend to be happy to see people and congratulate over nothing special and pretend to be happy and a normie
>>221889073i have a family composed entirely of autistic introverts. Didn't see anyone other than parents for the bbq
>>221888976>algerians (at least from what i have heard on youtube seem to pronounce it closer to "medrsacan confirm it's medrsaalso mektbanot everything gets darijized to this extent but we never do the long vowel either (like medrasa could theoretically preserve its pronunciation but it never turns into medraasa)
in case we ever standardize maghrebi dialects. we should be based on Algerian dialects. and it should be written in a modified arabic script with mandatory vowels markings so random mashriqis can't butcher the pronunciation trying to read it. and where the letters د ذ و ز ر ا are modified to connect to the following letter making the script actually fully cursive. like cursive latin. you don't need to lift your finger when writing a word (except for marking the dot on i after or the dash on t)
following up on the مدرسة thingin french they traditionally say "médersa" for the traditional islamic schools, which is different from english where it's "madrasa", this is because the english got their exposure to islamic culture in the middle east, while the french got it primarily through the maghreb, and speficially through algeria as it was the first and deepsert point of contactI wonder if this distinction between medrsa/madraasa existed back then between algeria and morocco, of if the moroccans back then also said it the way we do https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrasahttps://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9dersa
>>221889561yeah the french are notorious for reducing vowels in arabic namesmahdi -> mehdimuhammad -> mohammedyoussuf -> youssefetc.. because in french letter e is used for the schwa sound. which maghrebi dialects reduce short vowels to.
i wish we could unify maghrebi arabic orthography. i guess there is already a somewhat uniform orthography in the arabic script that most people developed organically. but mostly because literate people associate words with their classical arabic spelling and thus writing them as so. it's fine many languages still write their languages the way they were pronounced centuries ago (ehem, french, ehem).but i think we can do better.
>>221889678yeah but then it'd turn from madrasa to medrasamedersa clearly comes from mefe3la
Mi mum is mad cuz I didn't say eid mubarak to her in a cheerful enough tone o algo
>>221890056say eid mubarak to your mom anon
>niggas falling for vtubers>literally girls they know nothing of except their voicesصدق صلعم عندما قال صوت البنت دعارة o algo
>>221890056say wallahi bro
>>221890056My oldest brother once broke a glass table by throwing an office chair on it, because my mom said "happy birthday" to him.
>>221884017Because Pakis are OBSESSED with performativeness. You can see this with everything they do to assert their identity, they will spout the most deranged fanatical lunatic shit imaginable that would give even ISIS-loving Syrians cause for concern. The worst part is they genuinely believe their lunacy and are extremely desperate for approval from le OG Muslim Araplaris and basically try to make themselves discount Arabs with everything from fanaticism to dress codes to using Arabic loanwords in every conversation and shoehorning le sky daddy into everything. Another part is they probably just enjoy pissing off Dindus by slaughtering animals but the Dindu seethe just vindicates their identity as Muslim™©® and definitely NOT pajeets.Now that I've answered your question please answer mine sir https://desuarchive.org/int/thread/221677522/#q221752462
>>221890550>be saudi>the most influential figure in history is from his country>disrespects him and calls him صلعمhmmm, why are you like this
>>221890834i wonder what's the christian equivalent of pakis.
>>221890362I did, read it again>>221890574wallah>>221890820Why are moids like that
>>221885449Speaking of Algerians picrel is another 100% Berber sample i found. Literally white innit
>>221890992His DNA test. I wish more would do IllustrativeDNA for the ancient HG groups but meh>>221890899Spics of course
Yes the image is doctored and he hid his BLVCK and timmy ancestry for some reason. Don't @ me chuds it's close enough to 100%
>>221890992VGH my ancestors
>>221891087why does every other person fit-mogs the egyptian here.the egyptian guy is literally just wearing a blank white piece of cloth around his waist.
cousinfucking and sisterfucking is normal and natural and good
>>221873901>estonia flag hereyou're not actually Estonian, right?
>>221891134Egyptians have been self-effacing timid cucks for millennia now. I'd argue it's just our racial spirit at this point >>221891303>cousinTRVKE>sisterNigga?
>>221890992what's white about him?you couldn't make him more average algerian looking if you tried
>>221891574he is egyptian.
>>221891574over for trad based estonia central europe last bastion of whitedom
>>221891788The average egyjeet looks like picrel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5eLHL60bs
>>221891950egyptians have a distinct lookbut to me it's pic related that exemplifies it the most, I'd pick this guy out as being egyptian from a crowd of a million people
Algerians look like this
>>221892172that's not even a real person you retarded jeet
>that's not even a real person you retarded jeet
>>221892036غالباً شفتها بالفعل ولكن الاغنية ديه من اكتر الانتاجات تأثيراً على نفسيتي. هي وقطر الحياة لأن الثانية تقريباً أسوأ كابوس لي ولكن حلوةhttps://youtu.be/7iJq-gBYO28>>221892051>posts a 9/11 terroristKekkkk. At least it's better than the sub3 eternal betabuxx i posted
>>221891880>>221891921it's fine.. I just carried the hope of hearing his story if he was one
>>221892258he has those tutankhamun features, majestic
why are arabs so annoying and insufferable every time a linguist tries to academically study their language without stroking their dicks nonstop and making sure he doesn't offend them at every moment of the study?i was following an american linguist who does reconstruction of old arabic dialects and does recitations of poems and and sometimes quran in those dialects. the comments are full of arabs completely ignoring the titles and saying "sar, this is clearly a non arab, his pronunciation is very bad i can't understand much, he should improve his arabic".it literally says in the title it's a reconstruction of old arabic dialects.one time someone made a video about how the letter ض used to be a fricative sound different from the modern sound of ض in MSA. and the sound ج used to be pronounced differently. and muslims got triggered and went bonkers "SAAAAAAR NO SAAAAR, QURANIC RECITATION PRONUNCIATIONS ARE PRESERVED PERFECTLY SAR, THIS IS WRONG SAR". lol.who memed muslims into this commitment to the idea that every sound in the quran used to be pronounced literally exactly the same as it used to be pronounced at the times of muhammad? because it's clearly not the case. the uthmanic rasm is not consistent with this view. and we have different readings of the quran. those are clearly different people vowelizing the rasm differently. and sometimes even changing the consonants by adding different dots.>muh gabreal actually revealed it in 545 gazillion dialect and readings.lol. no one takes this seriously at this point.even big scholars like ibn khaldun shitted all over people who claim that. claimed that the sahaba knew absolute shit how to write and had no idea what they were doing and he even proposed that ق was pronounced گ by hijazi people at that time. (although this probably false).
>>221892692the central miracle islam is supposed to be the quran and specifically the language it's written in (and the fact that it's perfectly preserved from ta7rif), and people in heaven speak arabic and shit, which makes arabs think the language is sacred and different from any other language I mean that rigid view is a big part of why we have the current linguistic situation in the arab world
>>221892783trvei was looking into some of the discussions being had in the late 19th and early 20th century about reforming arabic. everyone had different views, from people who wanted to move past fus7a and standardize the dialects, to people who wanted to reform fus7a itself to people who just wanted to reform the writing system maybe adding short vowels or even writing it in the latin script. the hardcore fus7aists had the weakest arguments and the least understanding of linguistics among out of all groups.it's insane, because arabic went through a lot of standardization effort during the first 2 centuries of islam, if it wasn't for those people we wouldn't even have a written arabic at this point. the umayyads would have had just adopted greek as the lingua franca of the empire or something.people had to add i3jaam then shakl then standardize the grammar and orthography. because the early "salaf" had absolutely no idea what they were doing. they just used whatever was available for them which was an old defective nabatean script that didn't even have enough consonants.it's sad that we must be stuck with that basically forever now.
>>221892939>among out of all groups.out of all groups
>>221892692>>221892783>>221892939tldr
>>221892939is there a place where we can see these discussions?
>>221893007ehm. this is not for you sar. urdu is no arabic sar
>>221891303إن الله يأمر بالعدل والإحسان وإيتاء ذي القربىفأتوهن من حيث امركم الله
>>221892939>maybe adding short vowelsGod i wish. Reading this awful language feels like pouring acid into my brain because some nogger Phoenician sissy thought short vowels weren't necessary for his abjad trading list alphabet he stole from vowel-less Egypsies and sandniggers shamelessly copied the system and stuck with it for 3000+ years
>>221893185>فأتوهن من حيث امركم الله
>>221893208unironically skill issueread more
BASED
Post 9/11 American islamophobia is funny to look back at ngl, it wasn't even that long ago but now it's basically gone
Why Libya the only country in the world that respects us?
>>221893241والله تاني هنيك فيك من الصبح لحد ما ترتمتك تطلع طاجن كامل هريسة بالطماطم. مشفتش اللي حصللي في ثانوي مع النصوص احاااااااااااا حتى الذكريات بتنيكني
>>221893252Muslims started immigrating to America too after 9/11. Before the 2000s the only arabs there were Christian Lebs/Syrians.
>>221893031there isn't a single place. but a good starting point is to look into Fahmi's proposal for using the latin alphabet for arabic.https://www.hindawi.org/books/17907319/here he replies to a lot of the objections people raised. also look into سلامة موسى and انيس فريحةalso in 1945 i guess the majma3 of arabic in egypt held a competition to try to reform arabic spelling, and one of the proposals by someone i forgot his name (maybe محمود تيمور i don't remember) who propose adding dedicated vowel letters for the short vowels. but no one won in the end.
>>221893274you're one of 5 or 6 nationalities in the world that get to enter algeria visa-free, what more do you want
>>221893321I want Morocco and Algeria to start Respecting us just like Libya does
>>221893279حرفيا مشكلة مهارةكنت تشاهد التلفاز بالفصحى في صغرك؟ماذا عن المطالعة؟
>>221893307>but a good starting point is to look into Fahmi's proposal for using the latin alphabet for arabic.BuckbrokenThe only alphabet that should be used for Arabic is the Amazigh alphabet
>>221893307thanks I'll check it out I personally don't see what needs reforming in the orthography, it's very phonetic which is more than what many major languages have, you could say the short vowels need to be represented, but they already are with diacritics, so it's more that diacritics should be made mandatory in that case, but they're honestly not needed for anyone except learners, you just figure out how a word sounds based on the rules of the language once you know it
>>221893208>بعد الأزمة المدوية التي أحدثها اقتراح عبد العزيز فهمي باشا عام 1944 باتخاذ الحروف اللاتينية للكتابة العربية، قرر مجمع اللغة العربية بالقاهرة (وكان يُسمى آنذاك "مجمع فؤاد الأول للغة العربية") إغلاق باب المقترحات اللاتينية تماماً، وفتح باب البدائل الوطنية.في أواخر عام 1945، أعلن المجمع رسمياً عن "مسابقة عالمية لتيسير الكتابة العربية" ووضع لها جائزة مالية ضخمة بمقاييس ذلك الزمان (قُدّرت بـ 1000 جنيه مصري، وهو مبلغ هائل في الأربعينيات). الشرط الأساسي للمسابقة: تقديم مشروع هندسي أو لغوي يسهل الطباعة والقراءة، ويحل أزمة الحركات (Vowels)، بشرط عدم الخروج عن جوهر الحرف العربي أو بنية اللغة. النتيجة: تقدم للمسابق أكثر من 200 مشروع من مختلف دول العالم (مصر، لبنان، سوريا، وحتى من مستشرقين ومصممين غربيين). لكن المجمع في النهاية (عام 1947 وما بعده) وجد عيوباً فنية أو بصرية في معظمها، ولم يُطبق أي منها بشكل كامل، وإن كانت قد مهدت لتطوير خطوط المطابع لاحقاً.lolwe were so close. but the chuds ruined it
also reforming a language when you don't have a central political body that can enforce that is pretty tough, it would too easily turn into regional conventions which already exist
>>221893399>it's very phonetic which is more than what many major languages havewith the diacretics it's very phonetic. sure. better than english. but that's mostly because english is written in an alphabet not made for it. Arabic is phonetic because some people in the middle ages and late antiquity had to sit and fix the mistakes of earlier people.for classical arabic i think it's fine. but for dialects it's hard. some dialects just don't have the three vowels a i u and long aa ii uu. some dialects have developed vowels /e/ and /o/ and schwa etc... rendering the script almost useless for writing them.also sometimes i do get issues when using the search function in web browsers with arabic as they can ignore diacretics trying to filter فُعِلَ from فَعَلَ can be hard.
>>221893480these proposals were being discussed at the peak of pan-arabism. everyone thought we would have a unified pan-arab state or at least some form of federation. lol.
>>221893376unironically the best script for maghrebi dialects.peak.another algerian invention stolen by morocco and abandoned by algerians. funny how kabyle bebers abandoned tifinagh and used the latin script, while tifinagh found success in morocco for standard moroccan tamazight.
>>221893483yeah for dialects it would need further reform to be fully phonetic, the vowels that you mention is one thing, and some of the some of the consonants like g which are represented as ڨ in algeria and ڭ in morocco, or even pthere's also instances of emphatic consonants changing meaning, like emphatic and non-emphatic رwe have راب = to collapse (a building for example) [non-emphatic]راب = to ferment (milk) [emphatic]technically this exists in classical arabic with تفخيم وترقيق for example in tajweed, but I'm not aware of it leading to a change in meaning like in maghrebi dialectsother consonants where this change matters for meaning get to different letters like ذ/ظ or د/ض
>>221892692Your premise is disingenuous at it's very core because you know none of the readings/recitations matter and the core is still preserved, no matter what a supposedly "seething" 20 likes comment on youtube says. Someone pronouncing G or J doesn't change anythingUtterly pointless charade
>>221892939>lot of standardization effort during the first 2 centuries of islam,The reference is still ONE : the quran > du2alis works
>>221893584kabyles started their literary tradition and linguistic modernization efforts before any other berber group, and before the state-sponsored standardization efforts took off (which do use tifinagh), and so the latin script stuck around for themthey are proud of tifinagh culturally but don't seem to want to adopt it in practical terms, I sort of agree, considering most berbers in morocco don't seem to use it either despite it being heavily pushed officially, which makes me question if it was done in good faith and not as a way to obfuscate the language further, but I don't know
>>221893853i never said the core is wrong. i just believe the differences in qira'aats are later readings caused by different vowelization of the original rasm. and not revealed from god as most sunnis believe (shias basically believe what i say). some sunnis even believe that the uthamnic rasm is توقيفي which is bullshit that even ibn khaldun disregards.my view is that the quran was very likely revealed in an old hijaazi dialect of arabic which isn't exactly the same as classical arabic as standardized by grammarians in the following two centuries. then the it was written in uthmanic rasm and people latter vowelized it and added i3jaam based on their own oral tradition of recitation giving us the different readings of the quran we have today. the most correct reading is probably the one that makes the most sense considering the context.the idea of gabrael revealing the quran in different dialects or ahruf is a later copeout by sunni islamic scholars.
>>221894019Your premise is still wrong because nothing from the sahabah, prophet or their followers التابعين indicates that The main thing we have is أنزل القرآن على سبعة أحرف (reading g or j or 9, doesn't matter) You're not arguing linguistics tbf you're just taking a hit at islam because you're a slimy little وكال رمضان >X or Y believesThere's people who believe sasquatch exists what does it matter if the text you're arguing contradicts both of you
>>221893875>quran and du'alinot reallyi3jaam was invneted by نصر بن عاصم الليثيmodern diacretics were invented by الفراهيديal du'ali's diacretics used colored dots, which were different from modern diacretics and required different colors of ink to write.and there are more people involved like the schools of basra and kufa who worked at further standardizing the language.
>>221894168Guess what they used as a point of reference
>>221894139>you're just taking a hit at islam because you're a slimy little وكال رمضانlol, no. i am a muslim. i just believe the seven a7ruf are a cope-out basically.>reading g or j or 9, doesn't matterit actually does matter in quranic recitations. people who study tajweed believe you have to recite the quran exactly how it was pronounced at the time of the prophet. ibn khaldun mentions people who believed that bedouins who read the quran and pronounced ق as گ in their prayer invalidated their prayer. modern day quran reciters completely prohibit pronouncing ج as anything other than djeem, geem is forbidden, zheem (as we pronounce it in morocco) is forbidden, and so on.
>>221894233>X believes Y believesWhat the prophet says (if you're actually muslim)https://dorar.net/hadith/sharh/114113
>>221894269the prophet also says you can fuck 9 year olds
>>221892939freaks that wanted to turn every language into latin based are such faggots and always had some specious reasoning
>>221894216you are seriously retarded.they didn't rely on the quran alone in their works. they relied on bedouin dialects and pre-islamic-poetry and more. if you have ever read the discussions and beefs happening between kufian and basran scholars you will see them quoting poems and debating why x poet put this noun in accusative case and this noun in nominative case and that in genitive ...etc... analyzing the way bedouins speak and when they do this and that. they weren't relying solely on the quran and du'ali.>>221894269hadith that hadith this.hadiths are not either completely reliable or unreliable. they are no more reliable than any historical account written by someone.
>>221894269continuation of this >>221894328also ahruf just means dialects/accents. it's like the difference between وقف and وگف.it has nothing to do with the difference betweenنُنْشِرُهَا and نُنْشِزُهَاhere it's clearly someone put a dot on ر and other didn't. or بَعَجَتِكَ and نَعَجَتِكَagain clearly someone put a dot on top or bottom of the rasm of intial ن and ب which are the same this is not a difference between the way the letter ق or ج or ض is pronounced in different dialects of arabs. which is what the original ahruf actually meant.
>>221894296Based #قدوتي>>221894328>Abu dawud nisa2i and albani and bukhari are all wrong and relied a wrong hadith from different sources listen to my atheist pseud schizo ramblings over linguistics and people not following the textSo you're just an atheist having a melty because it's eid ? Your entire "cope-out" theory isnt holding up anymore because neither you or the supposed people who forbid using other letters are following the text aka it's zindee9 vs zindee9
>>221894485>The meaning is still the sameOk ? What ? What's your point ? Refer to >>221894269 "Anyone who overcomplicates reading the quran (while keeping it's meanings intact ofc) is a disbeliever"
>>221894485>everyone i disagree with is an atheistlol, okay. whatever you say. when you have an argument other than that we can return to the discussion.
>take false/erroneous premise to argue in bad faith in circular logic (false premise > "disprove it as false">create a false premise from this to circle back into the initial one)>is given the correct premise/core text that muslims follow>"nooo saar i very muslim (but i dont believe what hadiths say they're not very teaa sistah) readings are wrong saar because some hillbilly said so"
>>221894580do you listen to what i am saying?why are you arguing in bad faith? as if i am trying to اطعن في your faith somehow? i never did and never was.my point has been clear since the beginning.some differences between the famous qiraa'aats are not sufficiently explained by a difference in "readings" or dialectical variants. that can explain مالك and ملك and ذيب and ذئب and so on.however some of them are clearly just differences in rasm that have nothing to do with dialectical differences like نُنْشِرُهَا and نُنْشِزُهَا or بَعَجَتِكَ and نَعَجَتِكَ. these are words of the same uthmanic rasm that people applied different i3jaam to. it doesn't change the meaning because changing one word in a large piece of text typically doesn't. but this is not a difference in dialect.
>>221894626you literally have the reasoning capabilities of a toddler anon. if you genuinely thinks that's what i said you are literally mentally disabled.
>>221894639Good, but now you're just repeating what i said and backpedalling this >>221892692>. the uthmanic rasm is not consistent with this view. and we have different readings of the quran. those are clearly different people vowelizing the rasm differently. and sometimes even changing the consonants by adding different dots.That was supposed to be the lead to conclude with this >>221892939>because the early "salaf" had absolutely no idea what they were doing. they just used whatever was available for them which was an old defective nabatean script that didn't even have enough consonants.When we clearly have a hadith that says the pronunciations are all okay. They had the hadith i reposted three times now and it's multiple versions. >>221894652But you're literally a murtad queer, you were taking this angle to disprove the authenticity of quran and out of the blue threw a "bukhari hadiths are unreliable"You're ignoring the source text because it destroys your premise it's ok you were left out eating boulfaf because you're an autistic little atheist pussy
>>221894748you are replying to different points of the discussion that aren't related to each other. in each of those posts i am discussing a completely different topic that you somehow managed to connect in your head.>you were taking this angle to disprove the authenticity of quranno, you are just arguing in bad faith. or retarded. both go hand in hand.>bukhari hadiths are unreliableread what i said again. in a secular academic study of history, bukhari hadiths are only partially useful in studying history.when we study the history of the historical person jesus of nazareth, the bibles and christian sources are considered but we don't take everything said in them at face value. we clearly don't take the story of the resurrection and other events involving supernatural elements at face value. but it doesn't mean the sources are completely useless and that historical jesus never existed (as many edgy atheists actually do believe). the evidence of his existence is overwhelming and a lot of what's written in the christian sources is consistent with historical evidence. but we can't take them at face value. my view of the hadiths is exactly the same as my view of early christian writings. if you didn't argue in bath faith i would have given you the benefit of the doubt. but you always argue with bad faith. i haven't seen you one time in this thread not arguing with bath faith. idk who bullied you or hurt you as a kid (or maybe you are still a kid) but not everyone discussing a topic with you and disagreeing with you is out to get you.
>>221894881>you are replying to different points of the discussion that aren't related to each other. in each of those posts i am discussing a completely different topicKek what ? Lmao so now you're also backpedalling from "the differences cannot be explained by mere dialectal differences meaning early muslims were clueless to pick diacritics and dots" to it was actually unrelated ?>read what i said again. in a secular academic study of history, bukhari hadiths are only partially useful in studying history.Not when the hadith predates the historical discussion (and i surlign discussion, ibn khaldun is in no form a theologist or linguist he's a historiographerYou've completely disregarded the text i posted because it makes all your points mute since the prophet clearly gave muslims a lee-way on this>of the doubt. but you always argue with bad faith. i haven't seen you one time in this thread not arguing with bath faith. idk who bullied you or hurt you as a kidYou're projecting, i rarely argue here if ever onlineIt's no wonder you disregarded the overwhelming evidence since you probably think im someone you have a personal vendetta against (meaning you're terminally online and hold grudges)Also im calling you a kafir because you're clearly one im not gonna go over it again
just found out about this shrine on kharg island in iran looks pretty cool don't you guys think? it came up as a 3d model while i was searching for something else and i thought it was some sci-fi figurine LOLi think this is what is called a muqarnas dome. there are also some in syria and iraqmutts are probably gonna want to blow the fuck out of it if they come near it, though
top is two moroccans talking, bottom is a moroccan and an algerian talking
>>221894949>Kek what ? Lmao so now you're also backpedalling from "the differences cannot be explained by mere dialectal differences meaning early muslims were clueless to pick diacritics and dots" to it was actually unrelated ?>the differences cannot be explained by mere dialectal differences meaning early muslims were clueless to pick diacritics and dotsshow me where i said that? i never did. you are stitching together two different topics I discussed in your head and making up an argument that i didn't make.>Not when the hadith predates the historical discussion what historical discussion are you even talking about here?okay just because this is getting out of track i will list my positions here. if you have a problem with one of them name it and tell my why you disagree so we can talk about it. because you are just jumping all over the place and i don't even know what you are talking about at this point.1. there were different dialects in arabia at the time the quran was revealed.2. the quran was revealed in an old hijazi dialect which is close to what would be standardized later as classical arabic but not exactly identical to it.3. muslims were permitted to read it in different dialectical variations for some letters, something that seems to be very well documented and historically supported through different reading traditions.4. the uthmanic rasm was not توقيفي but rather a ijtihaad of the early scribes to write the quran to the best of their ability using whatever was available to them at the time.5. the early muslims/arabs weren't well versed in writing and scripts and relied on defective scripts that developed from scripts of other languages. these scripts weren't sufficient for writing the arabic they spoke.
6. the uthmanic script seems to be have unconventional spellings for different things that are not the same as the إملائي spelling that we are familiar with later. this was either done deliberately to permit different dialectical readings or was genuinely just how people spelled thing back then.7. i3jaam marks and vowel marks would be added later to make reading more precise.8. people would later start applying those to the uthamnic rasm which wasn't touched.9. some of the differences we have today in the different reading traditions of the quran are a result of dialectical differences dating back to the time of the prophet. eg. people adding or not adding glottal stops. some people adding aleph khinjaria for long vowels in some places etc... 10. some of the differences are not sufficiently explained by differences and they are more plausible explained by differences in the dotting of letters on top of the uthmanic script. for example turning ر to ز or ن to ب. those seem to be letters that look the same in the rasm that had different dots applied to them. the simpler and thus more plausible explanation here is that those are not the result of differences in pronunciation but rather later differences in dotting.11. hadith is not a source to take at face value and fully rely on when studying history in a secular academic setting. like any religious text related to real historical event (eg christian sources)12. the narrative of the 7 ahruf is although plausible, has been largely misinterpreted by scholars to explain the differences i mentioned in point 10 too. which is not the case. if the ahruf narrative is correct it's probably about ذيب and ذئب and ملك and مالك and not about turning a nuun to a baa' and a raa into a zayn. those are not real phonetic shifts that happen.
13. later islamic traditions would push for an even stricter traditions of tajweed which would suppress a lot of valid recitation traditions, like some for example in sudaan that recite the quraan with ق pronounced as g. some of which have taken to the extreme of considering the prayer of the people who did that invalid.okay.
>>221895388it's just that he always argues in bad faith. i have argued with him before here. and he always makes completely impersonal arguments into personal ones. which is something moroccans do a lot for some reason.i am genuinely just a person who is into history and linguistics. i am not an atheist or some historical revisionist or anything like. but sometimes muslims get offended when delve into their history with a completely secular academic framework.i had people get offended when i suggest the reported numbers of sassanid and byzantine army sizes were probably exaggerated by some muslim sources.
>goes from "muslims are inventing cope-outs over the lack of diacritics during the prophets صلى الله عليه وسلم life and calling each other disbelievers over it because the people who learned directly from his sahabah had no fucking clue how to read it (lmao??) ergo it disproves the non-faultiness of quran because some read it with different letters" and denying the lee way in qira2at >To "akchually the hadith that denies everything said before doesn't matter although it clearly states differences in readings are acceptable as long as they preserve the meaning *repeats my points and adds insults left and right* ermm it's very margin....WE NEED TO REWRITE ARABIC ACCORDING TO MY MEME FACEBOOK BOOMER SCHIZO RULES !!!im tired of these jewish tricks boss
>>221895552>goes from "muslims are inventing cope-outs over the lack of diacritics during the prophets صلى الله عليه وسلم life and calling each other disbelievers over it because the people who learned directly from his sahabah had no fucking clue how to read it (lmao??) ergo it disproves the non-faultiness of quran because some read it with different letters" and denying the lee way in qira2atso you insist on continuing arguing in bad faith and misrepresenting my points.well if you have a problem with one of the points i listed and explained in details and want to argue in good faith we can argue about that. but insisting on misrepresenting my position isn't going to get you anywhere.
>>221895517>. i have argued with him before here. and he always makes completely impersonal arguments into personal ones. I genuinely dont know who you are, you're mentally ill for holding onto this and i avoid moroccans usually online. It's insane that you cant see the irony in saying im making the argument personal when you're the one thinking im your 4chan nemesis>i am not an atheist or some historical revisionist or anything like.You are. For the 1000th times the hadith gave lee way and the muslims worked on it while writing the musshaf iterations and relied on it as a proof to ease reading arabic for different dialects and non-arabs. This doesn't need a larger picture. >but sometimes muslims get offended when delve into their history with a completely secular academic framework.Yup because it's revisionism. When a clue or piece is missing non-islamic ressources and interpretations can come in handy; what you're doing here is just turning a blind eye to something that completely disproves your points. Why ? Because you're an atheist. No muslim says that hadiths arent to be taken at face value. This hadith literally states that muslims can read quran letters however they please this isnt the moon splitting or whatever your entire mental gymnastics of "muh crucifixion is not literal" falls flat. You're just a midwit overcomplicating a very simple topic because you cant admit being wrong
>duur muslims have 10ish different readings a few more pronunciations because the followers of the prophet had no idea how to pronounce the words he recounted to them(lmao??)>https://dorar.net/hadith/sharh/114113Discussion should be over here ^^^^
أمسينا و أمسى الملك لله
>>221895636>You are. For the 1000th times the hadith gave lee way and the muslims worked on it while writing the musshaf iterations and relied on it as a proof to ease reading arabic for different dialects and non-arabs. This doesn't need a larger picture. if you read my point you wouldn't post this thinking it's somehow in contradiction with what I said. but whatever.>Yup because it's revisionism.it's not>When a clue or piece is missing non-islamic ressources and interpretations can come in handythat's not how history works.>what you're doing here is just turning a blind eye to something that completely disproves your points. Why ? Because you're an atheist. this is a baseless accusation that should be given as much effort to disregard as you have given to prove. that is zero.>No muslim says that hadiths arent to be taken at face value.there is no muslim historian. there are only historians. you don't do the muslim history, you do history. history is a secular science. not a religious science. you never mix the two. when we study islam historically we are studying it within the framework of the secular science of history. no one does islamic physics, islamic math, islamic biology or islamic whatever. those are secular sciences. history is the same. and thus when hadiths enter the framework of history they are not put on a pedestal, they are given the same weight as any source of their kind. if religious resources were relevant for history then we could use the bible or the quran to prove the historicity of biblical events. we can't do that. for that based on those sources alone.
>>221895660>duur muslims have 10ish different readings a few more pronunciations because the followers of the prophet had no idea how to pronounce the words he recounted to them(lmao??)>if i keep repeating shit he didn't say, and claim he said, then debunk the shit i said that he didn't say i somehow win.when the moroccaco gives you that 60iq stare. lol.
This retard >>221895772 will be baffled to know how historians vs hadith retellers recount things and filter information lmao
>>221895807>muh hadith "soience" is real historylol, lmao even. i was waiting for that to be brought up. but i had hope towards the end that you were maybe a little smarter than i thought and wouldn't go as low as bringing that up. but you delivered indeed.
>>221895825>>>221895825>X said to y to z to a that A saw B do C but V said B did D. Y is an unreliable retard, V is more reliable and Vs story has been recounted by many other reliable people, we will take V's recount - Anuligodotus:0>>X said to y to z to a that A saw B do C but V said B did D. Y is an unreliable retard, V is more reliable and Vs story has been recounted by many other reliable people, we will take V's recount - Bukhari:/All of this because your ego as a little scaredy atheist wont let you admit being wrong btw
>>221895886>X said to y to z to a that A saw B do C but V said B did D. Y is an unreliable retard, V is more reliable and Vs story has been recounted by many other reliable people, we will take V's recount - Anuligodotusanon. i am sorry. but you don't know how history works. or how historians do history if you think this is how they do history.>All of this because your ego as a little scaredy atheist wont let you admit being wrong btwno. you are coping because you are an illiterate.
>>221881933can't help but try to de-arabize arab internet spaces too? and you wonder why every population that hosted you eventually genocided you
>>221890834this is bad why? being unapologetic to frankish 3looj and their lackeys is good
>>221890870he was molested as a baby boy
>>221873901Saudis get your women under control before you its too late
نطة
>>221894881>secular academic studyOy gevalt he's a fucking MURTAAAAAAAAAD! Oh my Abu-Bakr Al-Baghdadi save me!!
what was the debate about? I can't read all that
>tfw you try to find information about some place in sudan but there's no info on the english internet
>>221896279This is the middle eastern general not the Arab general not the Islam general, it is as much mine as it is yours
>>221899039the i fucking love soience Moroccan says the Sahaba didn't know how to write proper Arabic because there weren't any and they didn't have dotting so we have different readings for the Quran. my fellow muslims.this completely ignores that the Quran is an audiobook that was and still is being passed down from Sheikhs to their disciples and they pass down the names of whom they got the reading from back to the prophet himself.the based Moroccan is utterly eviscerating him.
>>221901082And you trust these infallible humans, because? Please enlighten us using the islamic patented circular logic."I believe the quran because... the quran!"Islam is not and never will be a serious religion. It is a protection racket franchising operation with fake spirituality hastefully plastered on top from — God I am shaking with islam-orgasmic glee as type this — countries neighboring the arabian peninsula (Subhanallah WOW how can this be?!)
>كن جدي >بوومر >عمل يدوي بسيط لكنه بوومر ، مما مكنه من الشراء الكثير من الارضي بسهوله >بسبب النظام الابوي لزنوج الصحراء، كان هو واخوه الصغير يكتبوا كل الاراضي باسم الأهم الكبير لانه رب الأسرة >الاخ الكبير وكل كبار السن يعرفوا هذا واخبروا اولادهم ان لا يضعوا قضيب اصطناعي اسود كبير بمؤخرات اولاد الأخوة الاصغر>الاخوان الثلاثة يموتوا>اولاد الاخ الكبير قضيب اصطناعي اسود كبير بمؤخرات اولاد الأخوة الاصغر ورفضوا اعطائهم اي متر من اراضيهم يحدث في بلدك؟
>>221895772>there is no muslim historian. there are only historians. you don't do the muslim history, you do history.Based take
لو انني ولدت بجيل البوومرز بدل جيل "بداية ديستوبيا الذكاء الاصطناعي المتحكم به من قبل اليهود" لكنت تركت لاحفادي الملايينلعنة الله على زنوج الطبقة الوسطى والفقراء. ما اقبح الفقر وما اقبح الفقراء
>>221901082>this completely ignores that the Quran is an audiobook that was and still is being passed downThis is a myth. Very soon after the prophet's death, it stopped being an audiobook. It became a bare text without any dots, dashes, or diacritics, and now required (((intellectuals))) (read: qurra') to interpret (see: tafsir). This shows, at least to any reasonable person, that the "perfect chain of memorization" was never a thing.
>>221894139>أنزل القرآن على سبعة أحرفWhat a PERFECT excuse to account for any and all textual differences! Truly ingenious! Are you sure your "prophet" isn't an aspect of some deceitful Jinn? He's just so good at being a grifter!Anyone who still takes Islam at face value in 2026 is either massively mentally challenged, or mentally weak to the point he still clings to his childhood comfort zones.
>>221893241It is more ergonomic and frees up braincell to actually do things that matter, unlike arabs who are parasites
>>221899039I’m also trying to figure out what they’re saying.>>221902004Eh, the qiraah aren’t really that different. They’re definitely more standardized than Biblical manuscripts, but the rasm don’t change anything. I also don’t see why people can’t remember after it was written down. People are still huffaz today.>>221902089There does actually seem to be a reason for it. The ahrufs are definitely very early, as shown by the controversy they caused in the time of Umar and Uthman. It’s probably due to the different dialects of Arabic at the time why there were different ahrufs. Also, we do actually have narrations and codices on what were in these changes, and they again don’t change much. Al Suyuti actually wrote a good book on this topic.
>>221894550>Your entire "cope-out" theory isnt holding up anymoreAre you fucking serious right now? He provided multiple good arguments, you closeminded nigger. Effortpost after effortpost. I'd spit in your face and piss on your own personal mushaf that you keep under your frilly pink pillow, if I could, يا تيس
>>221902547>They’re definitely more standardized than Biblical manuscriptsNice asspull. But that's not what I'm talking about anyway. I'm saying it shows the quran wa stopped being transmitted primarily through memorization at some point, since you can't memorize a fucking rasm.>I also don’t see why people can’t remember after it was written downThey can, but since they are human, they still make mistakes and need a point of reference to refresh their memories every once in a while. The huffaz today have it much easier because they can use the written quran as a point of reference, not another hafiz.>It’s probably due to the different dialects of Arabic at the time why there were different ahrufsYeah that is the most natural explanation. People in different villages in Saudi Arabia speak differently. The internet didn't exist back then. The funny thing is that if the chuddy morrocan was just 10% less of a chud, he'd understand the 7 ahruf hadith on a more holistic level and see no contradiction with what the based moroccan is saying. But autism leads to literalism as always. Male autism is the primary drive of salafism, btw.
>>221901844It's sad to see. Nothing is holy anymore, not even family. It's every nigger for himself.
>>221900435saar, keep the kvetching in /isr/ not in the arab thread
>>221901826>And you trust these infallible humans, because? because they were honest people and it was passed down from and amongst big groups of people. >>221902004>This is a myth. Very soon after the prophet's death, it stopped being an audiobook.you think only the prophet and a couple of Sahaba had it memorized?and note we're not even talking about memorization here. just how words are supposed to be pronounced.>and now required (((intellectuals))) (read: qurra') to interpret (see: tafsir). you mixing qurra' and tafsir exposes how ignorant you are.>This shows, at least to any reasonable person, that the "perfect chain of memorization" was never a thing.how exactly? this is a non sequitur even if we take your mix up for granted.
>>221900435no this is not the out of place larpers with skin cancer and olive oil allergy general, its here /isr/
israelis be like my ancestral homeland's weather is too spicy for me fr fr
>>221902976>because they were honest people and it was passed down from and amongst big groups of people.What the fuck? That is your argument? They were "good people"? According to whom? You sound very young, I'm betting 20 or less.>you think only the prophet and a couple of Sahaba had it memorized?and note we're not even talking about memorization here. just how words are supposed to be pronounced.You have completely misread what I was saying.>you mixing qurra' and tafsir exposes how ignorant you are.The qira2a is part of any tafsir you idiot. The "moufassir" has a choice to make and doesn't just pick 1 "fave" and do the whole quran with it. Have you ever read a fucking tafsir, shit stain? Ironically this shows how ignorant YOU are, so you can go fuck yourself.>how exactly? this is a non sequitur even if we take your mix up for granted.Holy shit are you for fucking real? YOU CANNOT MEMORIZE A RASM.
>>221902677>I'm saying it shows the quran wa stopped being transmitted primarily through memorization at some point, since you can't memorize a fucking rasmYeah I guess that true. I think that was the natural course of events. It’s way easier to copy down a book memorizing an entire book. Also I was trying to make a comparison with the same being with Biblical manuscripts are still more or less the same despite them having more variations.>The huffaz today have it much easier because they can use the written quran as a point of reference, not another hafiz.Agreed>The funny thing is that if the chuddy morrocan was just 10% less of a chud, he'd understand the 7 ahruf hadith on a more holistic level and see no contradiction with what the based moroccan is saying.Alright desu, I actually didn’t fully read everything they were yapping about, but reading what they were saying. I agree religion and history or whatever fields are separate fields, but yeah I don’t really have a problem with the ahrufs in that way. I guess I don’t have a problem with what you’re saying.>But autism leads to literalism as always. Male autism is the primary drive of salafism, btw.Agreed
>>221903101>That is your argument? you ignored the other half. you sound dishonest.>You have completely misread what I was saying.and you were saying?>The qira2a is part of any tafsirnow you're walking it back. good.>YOU CANNOT MEMORIZE A RASM.a. yes you can. just because you can't do it doesn't mean others can't.b. the Quran isn't JUST an audiobook. even today, you can just get a certificate for proper pronunciation. proper pronunciation doesn't necissitate memorization of the whole Quran and is much easier.
>>221903205>you ignored the other halfListen you animal. At this point you're only being a troll. The other half, "and it was passed down from and amongst big groups of people." is just as fucking meaningless, and the same criticism applies to it. It doesn't matter whether it was included in the greentext I quoted or not.>and you were saying?Go and read again, retard.>now you're walking it back. good.Trolling again, or just plain retarded? I did not walk anything back.>a. yes you can. Ok this is not worth continuing. Don't bother replying because I sure won't.
>>221902551Repeating the same exact thing only to backpedal when pointed to the reason why the differences exist (i literally helped his supposed researches since he wasnt aware of the hadith) and that they're agreed upon as okay and sprinkling insults in-between isnt effortposting. He literally made up a supposed debacle where muslims say tilawat are erroneous and false etc when the reality and consensus is the opposite : anyone who complicates reading the quran for others over letter pronunciations is an apostate. This last statement is what ticked me off to call him an atheist.Quran and hadiths were retold by people who were taught by the different sahabah and student of the sahabah who scattered throughout the middle east and in fringe cases north africa. When you have someone in basra, someone in isfahan and someone in cairo retelling the same stories with small degrees of variance and the same exact quran you're ought to believe them unless you're convinced they used brain waves to communicate lies in real time so that when bukhari comes around they can impress him with the exact same hadith 800km accross
>>221903520>is just as fucking meaninglessno it isn't. you're assuming a big group of people will all make the same mistake which is very silly or, coming from you, most likely dishonest.>Go and read againyou didn't explain yourself properly and i was telling you to do that.>I did not walk anything back.first it was qurra' = tafsir and now it is only a part of it. that's walking it back.>Ok this is not worth continuingbecause you simply can't make a proper and logical argument.
>>221903585You are both saying that the masses of muslims are retarded. At this point I have no idea where you two disagree.
>>221903608Just go away kid
>>221903638i accept your concession
>>221903623I dont know how you concluded that when i dont even acknowledge this supposed debate of arab muslims going around ajam readings and giving them shit. I mean it does exist and is similar to a certain debate between scholar (on what's prefferable, although it's متآخري السلف who dabbled into that needlessly) but it's just extremely fringe to bring up as a strong point when the majority of muslims (sunnis) have a different consensus
>>221903748He was talking about those "saaar" commenters on tiktok reels or whatever. Those people are muslim and I doubt they spend any time worrying about the (((sunni))) (((consensus))). A lot of sunni muslims have "folk islam" beliefs, whether you like it or not.
>>221903923>some comments on an obscure 100 views reel of some abkhazian reading quran disprove scholarly consensusOk sure
>>221902904Make an Arab general then>>221902999Brown people also get skin cancer
>>221903084It's becuase people here tan, Arabs only go outside in long sleeves
>>221904105Nigger it is a common belief among the masses that the pronunciation hasn't changed one iota since the prophet was alive, and that the modern hafiz is reciting it like it was some immutable platonic form.Most muslims have no idea that there are 10 ((((canonical)))) readings, even. And the ((((scholars)))) prefer it that way!
>>221904534Mohamed was not a prophet Islam is a false religon
>>221904615
>>221904827He was born before matan torah
>>221904534>No proofYou should start posting on https://archiveofourown.org/
>>221904857I don't give a fuck. I will go to your piece of shit thread and make you and the other sons of Satan dance
>>221904999Your trolling dow not bother me it only upsets the Russian goyim who parasite off of Jewish laboure, becuase deep down they know you and tem are the same, like staring into the abyss and the abyss staying back at you, but again i as a jew am above all that
>>221873901Also this is my thread as well
>>No proof
>>221905039
>>221905245I'm ashekanzi
>>221905348
Hello my favorite larpers on 4chan.
>>221904928I keep telling you not to take the local retard seriously and argue with him, but you still do it.Don't act surprised when he does this >>221905217
>I keep telling you not to take the local retard seriously and argue with him, but you still do it.>Don't act surprised when he does this
>local
>>221890870>>the most influential figure in historyThat would be Jesus Christ, not صلعم, and it's not even close
>>221907084Dude shut the fuck up. Jesus isn't even the most influential figure in crosscuckery
>>221907287Jesus Christ is the most influential person in history
>>221907466LolAlexander accomplished more in one less year on Earth
>>221907568No, Jesus Christ is the most influential person in history. He'll even judge you on the day of judgement, where he'll conclude that you're a subhuman and promptly send you to hell forever.
>>221900435It is not. You have an exclusive ethnonationalist thread on /isr/ (that you created to self-segragate btw) where even though visitors aren't abused they're still not actively welcome as evinced by the fact you use Hebrew almost exclusively. You have your own thread stop complaining like a little bitch.If you want to stay like Matthew or the Druzi nobody really cares but if you want to be a seething little bitch then go back to /isr/>inb4Make /isr/ English only
>>221907084debatable, much of jesus' influence was created after his death by his disciples/apostles and the early church and the roman empire that picked up the religionmuhammed left strong caliphate and military and mostly finished religion by the time of his death, so he had a much more direct role in creating his own legacy and religion
>>221907568>>221907879--> >>221905533
>>221907879Sure, that is a way of looking at it, but one I strongly disagree with and find kinda retarded. Jesus put all these things in motion. He was a VERY unique and strange person, which you wouldn't know because you've never interacted with a bible. The precise circumstances of his life and death don't matter at all. Consider that maybe he died at exactly right time for his influence to grow as it did. It's not a dick measuring contest.>>221907973Get a life
Suck my cock maroun
>>221908313I miss you too, bushadi
>>221908496I spit on your existence, worthless scum.
I heard somewhere that a marionite is a Jew that followed a coin into a church, and an emarati is a Jew that followed a coin into a mosque. True IYC?
>>221908570Maronites aspire to be as successful nationally as zionists and as rich economically as gulfies. Not surprisingly, they turned out to be a mountain monkey people that failed horrifically at both, and are now pathetic whiners that cry at their lack of power and spend their days begging gulfies, jews, and whites for any shred of power they might bestow upon them.A collective spit on such a sad and pathetic community.
>>221908754I'd rather not generalize the Maronite community based on the thread's retard.
>>221908824This isn't based on that retard maroun. This is genuinely what the maronites are. They were a convenient collaborationist minority that the French used to extend control over their new Levantine territories. The British didn't have a handy minority with centuries old ties so they just exported Jews to Palestine to fill the same roll.The maronites happily accepted this role, thinking themselves superior to the their muslim neighbours. They undemocratically added surrounding muslims lands to their fake french-given state, and thought with hubris that their political dominance in said state will always be assured by their french overlords.Ironically, nowadays the maronites see lebanon as a lost cause and are increasingly supportive of federalism, or partition, thinking themselves bogged down by muslim lands that they themselves coveted for their economic stength just a century ago. What a pathetic, whiny, and irrelevant "people"
>>221908754>>221908999Did you dye your hair blue too, bushadi? "collaborationist" LOL, LMAO even. Is this how your leftist gf taught you to talk? The maronites gave you a fucking country, you fucking retard. You love just loooove Syria, I'm betting, right? You should worship maronites and the french wherever they walk for giving you an education and an independent country. France gave you even more in your own life, yet you are STILL an ungrateful, resentful piece of shit.>thinking themselves superior to the their muslim neighboursI have no idea how that follows from the prior statement, but yes of course as Christians we are superior to godless heathens who worship a moon.>They undemocraticallyHOLY SHIT LOL do you even hear yourself you virtue signalling moron?>and thought with hubris that their political dominance in said state will always be assured by their french overlordsYeah, perhaps that part is true>Ironically, nowadays the maronites see lebanon as a lost cause and are increasingly supportive of federalismI'm not for federalism anymore, but I guess Switzerland is a lost cause and not a "real" country too because it's a federation, right? More retardation coming from you, repeating stale talking points that sadly qualify as "politics" in my country.In any case, the maronites by and large are retards just like all the other sects, but all this vitriol stems from the fact that you're simply one bigotted piece of garbage unironically. At least my bigotry is LARP (mostly)>>221908522You don't know anything
>>221909726>The maronites gave you a fucking country, you fucking retardAnd there we have it folks, the cognitive dissonance of forcing a country (where the system is set up for the benefit of your own sect) on people who never wanted it and then being surprised they're less than pleased about it.Lebanon is not "my" country it is just where I was born and grew up. I have no sentimental attachments to it as a nation and would shed no tears if it ceased to exist tomorrow.I spit on you and your sad life
>>221908570Muslims are jews with a minecraft desert biome palette swap, who are upfront about their desire for World government instead of hiding it
>>221909895الغربة قسّتك، زي ما قسّت غيركاسكندراني مَر من هنا، بيسلم عليك
>>221910142...كسطوني
>>221909895The implication is that no sane person would have preferred to be born Syrian, retard. Did you actually miss the point or are you being deliberately obtuse?>I have no sentimental attachments to it as a nation and would shed no tears if it ceased to exist tomorrow.Unless you're completely soulless, which I doubt, you definitely have some sentimental attachments to things, maybe very small, that you don't even consciously think about. >I spit on you and your sad lifeAgain, you don't know anything.
>supports Israel>calling anyone "soulless"
