>>221899177
The maker of that picture was too retarded to just copy paste some chud faces and make shitty drawings in paint so the whole thing looks bad and shitty

>>221899177
>don't you think it's a waste that our smartest people are wasting their talents on this kind of pointless and possibly even damaging crap?
Not really. People don't like hearing this because hating successful people feels really nice and cathartic, but quantitative traders (and institutional traders in general) are a net positive to society. They earn their money by efficiently allocating capital, and are generally a boon to economic growth.

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>>221899260
>efficiently allocating capital

>>221899177
How can a young, mostly retarded, retail market is allowed to trade options on that scale will always boggle my mind. Tell Modi to go after those people instead of moslem.

>>221899276
How else would you describe the use of mathematics to find the companies most likely to succeed, and the subsequent giving of money to those companies?
No matter how you slice it, institutional investment just is good for society.

>>221899304
The problem is modiji probably knows shit about the stock market and can't understand it and/or is bought out.

>>221899333
>dude they use math so like it’s efficent and cool and heckin awesome
bruh

The entire field is literally just “buy low, sell high” but instead of going by gut feeling they go by gut feeling plus stochastic calculus. That’s it. It’s just stock speculation. There’s zero capital allocation going on. Just Jewish tricks.

>>221899385
You are retarded. By your logic Aldi and Lidl are also Jewish tricks because all they do is buy low sell high.

The value traders provide is liquidity in capital markets. The value that Aldi and Lidl provide is liquidity in the Pizza and Cola market. Its very much alike

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>>221899385
>the entire field is just buy low sell high, but instead of going by gut feeling they use mathematics to systematically discover undervalued companies, bring them to their proper worth, and then sell after creating economic growth and generally improving society.
fixed that for you.

>>221899428
Aldi and Lidl trade in actual real commodities, not magic numbers on a ‘puter. What would you rather have, anon, a house, or a volatile fiat of that cost that may lose all its value tomorrow for no reason other than stonks?

>>221899260
The stock market has 0 relationship to how well a company or the economy functions

>>221899455
If you were wired five hundred million dollars right now, would you call that "numbers on a computer" because you can't touch and feel it?

>>221899428
What value did Jane Street provide by scamming 4 billion off of Indian retail investors and getting banned?
>>221899436
Yeah, yeah. Just like how the companies that caused the housing market crash were keeping the market efficient.

>>221899489
>Yeah, yeah. Just like how the companies that caused the housing market crash were keeping the market efficient.
this is like saying planes don't move people places because 9/11

>>221899436
Nigger, I can tell you’re a humanities fag by the way you refer to le mathematics as some holy grail of soience or whatever. Cashiers use mathematics when they count your change. And? I have an actual degree in mathematics and I can confidently say that the ugliest, most crayoncoded, and ad hoc subfield of math is applied mathematics. But guess what, stocks don’t care about the homotopy groups of the Hawaiian earring or the fact that the E8 manifold has no smooth structure.

>>221899455
Thats not the point. The point is that if there were fewer traders you would have to pay a bigger spread/margin/commission/etc. to buy the same thing.

If all you have is one single shop selling water for 3 EUR you will buy no matter if you like it or not

If all you have is one single trader selling a stock for way more than its worth you need to pay that extra margin or you are locked out of buying the stock.

Thats all there is to it.

>What would you rather have, anon, a house, or a volatile fiat of that cost that may lose all its value tomorrow for no reason other than stonks?
I'd take the fiat because its more liquid than the house. Also, thats an odd scenario, the EUR wont fall to 0 over night. Its impossible.

>>221899509
>stocks don’t care about the homotopy groups of the Hawaiian earring or the fact that the E8 manifold has no smooth structure.
clearly they do if quantitative traders generate billions of dollars worth of value every year, lmfao.

>>221899548
room temp IQ post (in Celcius)

>>221899489
>What value did Jane Street provide by scamming 4 billion off of Indian retail investors
Trading is a competition you know. Its like asking what value did Mayweather provide by beating an opponent.

>>221899535
Yup, that's correct. Basically everything good is a net positive rather than a pure positive. Cars cause pollution, medicine has side effects, food make you poop. Traders fuck around sometimes, but they help the economy significantly more than they hurt it. Hope this helps, anon.

>>221899205
It's telling

>>221899586
Awful analogy.

>>221899587
Literally how do they "help" the economy. The entire stock market is Jewish money laundering. Every time someone profits, they are taking value from someone else.

>>221899572
Do you actually think quants get paid 300k a year to randomly buy stocks and pretextually justify their gambling with random bullshit? Do you really think they'd be able to get away with this for 50 years without anyone noticing?

>>221899626
Imagine you have two people.
Person A returns 1.1 dollars for every 1 dollar you give him
Person B returns 1.2 dollars for every 1 dollar you give him.
If you take a dollar from person A, and give it to person B, the economy as a whole benefits. Sometimes we pay guys in suits to look at graphs and decide which person is the most efficient. Very easy and intuitive concept to understand.

>>221899626
Imagine you have $100,000 worth of stock, but now you need cash.
If its a stock that is highly traded then you can just go out and sell and you will get close to $100,000 worth of cash back
If its a stock that is not highly traded, aka. if there are no or very few traders trading the stock then you don't have as many people to sell to and they will start lowballing you.

So you either sell it for less than its worth or you dont sell it at all.
The fact that there are a lot of traders makes it so that blue chip stocks are almost like a money

>>221899636
Yes, anon. Maybe when you grow up and get a job, you’ll realize that 80% of them are bullshit with no actual purpose or value to society. That’s service economy for you. But at least the quant people squeeze their brain muscles a bit unlike drooling stacies at HR or whatever email job.

The quant trader pipeline is a well-known meme in math and physics departments. You usually go that route when you fail to secure a postdoc or tenure due to how fucking grim the academia is these days. Oh, and btw, 80% of your work as a math professor is also tedious administrative bullshit that serves no purpose and most of “your” published research would actually be done by your postdoc/phd slaves.

>>221899671
The efficient capital allocation aspect of the stock market is to pick which COMPANY is the best at generating economic output. We are talking about FACTORIES here which create cars, battleships, anti air missiles, etc. Not who can rob individual investors most efficiently.
Even Walmart is creating far more real economic value than some jewish cabal like Jane Street. The only value of quants is to expose how inefficient the system is. After such gap is found, the next logical step is to close it. But regulators are slow, mostly retarded, and or complicit.

>>221899741
You can't seriously believe these people perform nothing of value for 300,000 dollars? That they wouldn't be replaced by someone cheaper or less qualified?
>The quant trader pipeline is a well-known meme in math and physics departments. You usually go that route when you fail to secure a postdoc or tenure
Maybe things are different in krautland, but in the states there are probably twelve people in STEM who want to be quants for every one aspiring academic.

>>221899260
Yes, manipulating numbers without adding any real value is very net beneficial holy fuck kill yourself retard

>>221899897
Clearly they do add value if people are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for their analysis, lmao.
If I have a very accurate model that predicts so-and-so's company is overvalued, and I sell it, I free up money to allocate to someone who can use it to actually build things.
Very easy concept to understand if you clear the 110IQ hurdle.

>>221899949
>if i manipulate numbers and fuck up retail investors then i add value
You are a fucking retard even by the average mutt standards congratulations retard

>>221899835
>if I earn *insert whatever number* I am the equivalent of Mother Theresa because ooga booga number big me rich
Americans are something else

>>221899985
Do you actually think this trillion-dollar, rapidly growing industry is totally worthless and the wealthy pay millions to access their services for no particular reason?

Don't you think its a little bit more likely you simply lack the knowledge to understand the value they provide?

>>221900024
>I earn x amount of money.
>If my services were not worth x amount of money, I would be undercut by someone who could offer them for a lower cost.
>If my services were totally worthless, those who do not buy them would get an advantage over those who do, and inevitably drive the former out of business with the advantage of their saved money.
>Therefore my services are worth x amount of money.
Its that simple.

>>221900025
Yeah kill yourself fucking sonwhore retard I'm not spending a second reading your nonsense

>>221900058
I win :D

Trading is incredibly easy. Your rulers would sooner let you starve or send you to war than see asset prices go down.
You can basically invest in anything.

>>221900052
By your logic, people like Pablo Escobar and Al Capone were saints.

>>221900102
Drug trade is a valuable service though

>>221900102
No, the only thing my logic proves is that they provided a useful service at a lower cost than their competitors.
Which they did.

>>221900145
>…and that’s a good thing!

>>221900158
Quantitative traders are good because the services they provide make the economy more efficient.
Generally we ban things that have a negative impact on economic growth (like drugs) and do not ban things that have a positive impact on economic growth (like multi-billion firms dedicated to giving out money to the most promising companies)

>>221900225
What services do they actually provide?
>we ban things that have a negative impact on economic growth (like drugs)
Yeah, the Prohibition went really well. We humans just operate like golems, amirite. Whenever I buy booze at the store, I go “hmmm lemme think whether I would bring more benefit to the economy by getting thrashed on tequila or vodka”.
>inb4 alcohol provides le monetary value
so does cocaine and its an actual stimulant and not a depressant

>>221900294
>What services do they actually provide?
They are paid to make models that accurately predict a company's true value, and then shift money from overvalued companies to undervalued ones. This puts more money in the hands of better-run companies.
Very easy and intuitive to understand concept.

>>221900294
>Whenever I buy booze at the store, I go “hmmm lemme think whether I would bring more benefit to the economy by getting thrashed on tequila or vodka”.
You don't, which is it should be banned. Stop drinking and get a job, you lazy kraut.

>>221900365
>This puts more money in the hands of better-run companies.
Maybe I’m being pedantic but that would only be true if the company issued new shares. Otherwise they are putting money into the hands of the person who sold the shares.

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>>221900365
>make up your own “model”
>according to my soientific model made with math n shieeet Goyguzzlers Inc is an undervalued company (they paid us to come up with this shit)
>the direct competitor Sneed&Feed Co is alschyally overvalued because my arbitrarily set up cost function for my le artificially intelligent numerical PDE solver that I cooked up says it is
>fuck around with stock pricings until you squeeze enough margin out of it
>Goyguzzlers Inc now has more “value” on the stock market even though absolutely fuck all changed about how its run
>???
>(((PROFIT)))
>some retard on an anonymous Laotian dogsledding forum takes this as objective, unquestionable truth about a company’s actual, irl output of actual real commodities

>>221900480
It increases the stock price of the undervalued companies though which enables them to issue shares at a better price. Also you get cheaper corporate bonds if you have a high stock price

>>221899177
>A year or so back they rug pulled 4 billion or so from the Indian stock market
I don't know much about investing and global economy, are the quantitative trading firms the assholes of the world?

>>221900505
cool story. here's what would actually happen if quantitative analysts made up bullshit to pretextually justify their positions like you claim they do:
>make retarded arbitrary model based off of random bullshit
>try to trade on it
>massively underperforms the ones used by other firms and you lose a bajillion dollars of company money
>get fired for being a fucking retard
>turns out there actually WAS a reason 2,000 different firms all independently made the decision to hire a quantitative analyst?
>who knew!

>>221900599
Very true. There are lots of different ways a company can benefit from a higher stock price, but a lot of people talk like the money they spend on stocks, actually ends up in the company. That triggers my autism.

>>221900698
Lack of education, I dont blame them, you only learn about it if it interests you

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>>221900680
Anon, stock markets are literally random, these niggas literally use STOCHASTIC calculus to manipulate it. There is no rhyme or reason to it. But hey, I guess humanitiesfags like you go “da smartpipo be using numbas n shiet damn it all gotta be hella complicated and advanced n shiet, they gotta know da truth”. When in reality it’s just intelligent people gambling.

If stocks were an actual indicator of a company’s performance, quality, value, etc, we would never have bubbles and stock market crashes ever.

been trying to get a job as a quant now for months since i graduated university and havnet been able to secure anything yet unfortunately i had a couple interviews but no offers i want to sell my soul and make a lot of money. i tend to agree that compared with something like a researcher it is a meaningless career path, you arent creating anything just using math and programming to make number go up for a company. thats the thing with capitalism too youre paid more to be a quant than to be a researcher that actually creates shit and makes new discoveries so in a way yes it is a waste of talent. basically >>221899509

>>221900863
Yeah. That's way it goes. There guys from top unis in India who join Jane Street despite them robbing this country blind.

>>221900805
>Anon, stock markets are literally random, these niggas literally use STOCHASTIC calculus to manipulate it.
This is only true in the short term. Long-term, the value of a stock correlates very closely with the value of the company.
>If stocks were an actual indicator of a company’s performance, quality, value, etc, we would never have bubbles and stock market crashes ever.
Stocks are perfect indicators of a company's value *given the information available to investors at the time.* That's the distinction you're missing. Many people see wild fluctuations in value and assume the stock market must be irrational (because the assets of any given company are about the same day to day, so how could the price change so much?) but what they fail to account for is how important changes in the information available to investors can be.

A lot of important information is fundamentally unpredictable. Warehouses can burn down, Important leaders can abruptly die, individual investors can make irrational purchases or sales, demand for a product can shift without any apparent reason, so on and so forth.

Since the flow of information is unpredictable from moment to moment, it makes total sense that quantitative analysts would use something like stochastic calculus to create good models with predictive power. You would want something like that to model how a steady flow of quasi-random, unpredictable information might affect the value of the companies being traded. It makes perfect sense, they have a totally rational reason to do that.

When you consider all this, there isn't really a contradiction between the claims "the stock market fluctuates wildly and unpredictably day to day" and "the price of a stock is an almost perfect indicator of a company's value over a long enough period of time." They're totally compatible with each other.

>>221899177
Bump.

>>221899835
>I'm paid a lot therefore what I do is important
kek are you a child? It's an ideal people should aspire to but much like meritocracy it's a myth

>>221901349
Quants are only interested in short term trades anon.

Long term value investing is the field of fund managers and the top 1% of retail investors

Peak burgernomics itt.

>>221899671
What an amerigolem kek

>>221908802
PSA to anyone reading this. I am OP and I did not post this comment.

>>221908948
PSA, I am OP and i wrote that comment.

>>221899333
>companies most likely to succeed
Which company is more successful in providing goods and services to society, Tesla, Toyota or BYD?

>>221908983
Stop doing this!

>>221909334
PSA, I (OP) am a massive faggot btw..

>>221901349
But quants don't do long term investing. They just predict the order flow and trade arbitrages. Having reasonable approximations for what companies are worth month by month is worth a lot for society. Predicting the order flow in the next 100 milliseconds doesn't benefit anyone. Especially since these firms attract otherwise insanely smart people who could do so much more useful stuff for society in literally any other domain.

>>221899260
Allocate a bullet through your brain

if i do well in life i might get in there but i doubt it

>>221909503
Hope you get AIDS!

>>221899177
Happens in Brazil
Very common in fact
>>221899260
Nope. It's dead money

>>221899385
>but instead of going by gut feeling they go by gut feeling plus stochastic calculus.
They kinda that always calculated things
It just happens that with ai with easier

>>221899636
Making money doesn't means you create value

A thief makes money but he isn't really creating value

>>221899770
>and or complicit
100% that

>>221909612
>Happens in Brazil
Any notable instances?

As per the EMH, trading only works if you're a prodigy at statistics.

90% of fund managers underperform the S&P500.

It's genuinely fascinating how the stock market was invented centuries ago and it still completely filters midwits. It might as well be literal magic to retards with zero financial education.

To be fair most people with average IQ are filtered hard by statistics in general so it shouldn't be a surprise.

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>>221899260
Based
I need 650k too

>>221899177
>I heard these firms attract the brightest minds in the world
This is a popular talking point among online tech circles but I do not think this is really true. These firms mostly attract people who want to make a lot of money. Is there some overlap? Yeah, sure. But quant and finance in general does not use that complicated math. The tech you are surrounded with on an everyday basis, like just as basic as listening to music on your phone uses more "advanced" math than financial firms. (There is a reason why it took more than a decade for opensource to create a decent AAC encoder and it is still not as good as the Apple AAC) These days being a quant is like a riskier data science job. Are people there smarter than like idk, some random engineer at Airbus or SpaceX? Not really

>>221899333
This argument would be more suited for hedge funds and companies that do long term investing. Quants do more like the stock equivalent of currency arbitrage. Large firms like Citi and Jane Street also serve as a liquidity provider to the stock market so they get additional fast information about how the market moves. They do not improve efficiency allocation of capital because it is rapid trading. They do not care about medium and long term investment