>be American>live in a country that has fucking tornadoes and shit>build your houses like shedswhy is that dear Americans? there is also like zero taste to these and its not like its 20% of the people its like 90% of Americans have it like this
>>222377090>europeans think their little brick houses can hold against a tornado
>>222377231wooden houses can alsoit doesnt need to be out of bricksglue and plastic just doesnt go that far in terms of durability
At some point there is going to be a fairly large earthquake in the New Madrid rift (border of Southern MO/Arkansas/TN; there was an 8.0 here right before Europeans settled it) and the choice to have houses made out of wood versus brick will save infinitely more money and lives than building everything out of brick/concrete would have from tornadoes nationwide over the past 150 years.
>>222377349You're good.
>>222377349motherfucker honestly acts as if earthquakes mean world doomthat is self-caused problem you know with your shitty houses?
>>222377090real estate in this country is most definitely a conspiracy. sturdy well made houses can't be propped up like a Lego kit in huge new neighborhoods. they take time and highly paid professionals to build. in order to cram people into newer and newer McNeighborhoods they need to use balsa wood and glue as building materials.
>>222377090The US had an extremely rapid population increase in areas that were essentially void of infrastructure in the modern age. There was a massive demand for quick construction and shipping stuff like bricks out en masse out to bumfuck Missouri wasn’t viable. Drywall and whatever timber that grew in the area was. While it’s not really necessary anymore it’s what their construction culture was based on and it might not be worth the cost to upend it what with it already being a standard that works for what it’s supposed to achieve. It’s not like it doesn’t have benefits. Through financial fuckery they’re not actually cheap anymore but that doesn’t have anything to do with the price of construction. You can build way bigger for the same price as a brick house. Super easy to augment as well.
>>222377595if they have access to glue wood then they have access to bricksthis argument only works for fully wooden buildings but Americans arent building those
>>222377697I didn’t say they don’t have access to bricks today. They build with drywall and playwood for the same reason the Japanese makes walls out of paper. It’s a cultural thing born out of necessity that stuck around.
>>222377860noif it was tradition they would build fully wooden housesbricks are easy to come by no matter where you are
>>222377891The tradition is quick construction with whatever makes the most sense to ship out to the rapidly growing town out in the middle of nowhere. Can you put one and one together here?
>>222377090>no insurance over natural catastrophes
>>222378005no
>>222377231>Just build a house out of bri-ACK!
>>222378058Many insurance companies don't even touch these regions, or make them cost prohibitive. So that often ends up happening is the State has to step in to pay for this stuff/damage.
euros always overestimate the frequency and extent of tornado damage in these threads
>>222377090>american call wooden constructions "houses"
>>222377090Americans live like royalsYou live in a cuckshed
We used to live in dirt houses called soddies
>>222382290Now america surpassed all eurocucks
>>222377231In europe the expectation is that the house you build will last at least your lifetime if not also that of your children, that makes building expensive
>>222377090you know what ? MUTTS I ADMIT IT I KNEEL
>>222377595i just wanna say, we had plenty of brick kilns in missouri lol. there's lots of clay here. construction used to be better quality and over the course of the last 40 or 50 years its been getting worse and worse. i think its simply about making money. Of course, if you want a properly built house, you can still hire union bricklayers or stonemasons lol but it'll cost you a lot more than billy joe bob and the 24 guatemalans he picked up from home depot and the latter is what contractors use for massive subdivisions, most likely
>>222382633
>>222382522The highest build quality in europe is in norwhay and they build houses very similar to most of America
What's up with all the euro resentment to Americans? Why do you even care if wind blows away houses in the US, why would that concern you other that using it as a medium to express your growing resentment against the US? Why? For bombing your desert country? Well, why instead of posting angry messages you would go back and rebuild it?
>>222382769they are obsessed. when it rains in america europeans tell you don't forget your umbrella. meanwhile a woman gets harassed on the train in front of them or something and they purse their lips thin
>>222377090It's cheaper to rebuild when it gets blown over
>>222382769I think they hate us because they see that their world power has vanished completely and all they see is us, a much more benevolent world leader who has completely taken their place
>>222377090Id build my house out of wood if it wasn't so expensive Also the only things wrong with usanian houses are these terrible 15 degree tar shingle roofs and water heaters in unusable attic space
>>222383035>Also the only things wrong with usanian houses are these terrible 15 degree tar shingle roofsnigga you say that because you don't have to roof 6 pitch or higher roofs all the timeguarantee the first time you had to carry a 200 lb cupola across the peak of a 8 pitch roof you would be wishing every roof was 4 pitch max
>>222383116Don't know what a pitch is but its required by building code to make 45 degree roofs here, otherwise rain and snow may fuck up the roof but desu I understand the roof angle thing as you guys are on the same latitude as africa but these tar shingles are too much they look like shit and probably smell like shit when sun hits them
>>222383312They don't smell at all and you don't need a fucking 12 pitch just for snow. Where I live it snows 5 months out of the year, you just double up the trusses
>>222383346what about the environmental issues of tar shingleswould you drink rain runoff from a tar shingle roof?
>>222383374if it was the only available water, sure
THIS German engineer makes it clear exactly why American housing is so excellent. Europeans need to find something new to complain about!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAYIu53Gl0o
I'm so tired of seeing my flag defend these shitty balloon framed shacks in these threads, as if it's a point of national pride or some shit. This attitude and ignorance is partially the reason residential housing sucks here so much in the first place. If buyers knew better and demanded better, they'd be forced to build better too.
>>222383482I'm a carpenter, what is your experience with framing american houses?
>>222383402its dirty water. you should only use it to water your garden. theres all kinds of heavy metals and toxic chemicals in petroleum waste you want to avoid, but it won't kill you right away, it will build up in your system and make you sick. but if you're in a situation where you need water right away dirty water is ok to survive in the moment
Why don't they build those shitboxes from actual wood and why won't they build where there's no tornadoes?
>>222383346>just double up the trussesI guess wood is cheap in america, here we just increase the angle until snow is no longer a problem
>>222383609working on rooves like that is so fucking annoyingsometimes when framing out rooves here I forget to even wear a harness when doing purlins
>>222383498>useless appeal to authorityObviously if I was a poopbrick smelter, I'd be hyping up the qualities of poopbricks too. Does that mean making a house out of poop is a good idea?
>>222383467he's fishing for mutt likes
>>222383724So you have no experience or knowledge on the subject but feel like you should be the authority figure on the subject?
>>222383727He LIVES in America. He knows more about our houses than you do. Perhaps your jealousy is getting in the way of true understanding?
>>222383753Okay, let's put it this way: What is your experience in brick laying?I really can't make this any more obvious without spoonfeeding you like a toddler, brainlet blue collar anon. Put on your thinking cap for a minute please.
>>222383784I've done it a handful of time for some outdoor areas, and you?
>>222383664Yeah, but its cheap and looks pretty
>>222383807So in other words you're a complete novice but feel like you should be the authority figure on the subject?
>>222383856So you have no experience on brick laying either? Do you have any construction experience at all? Any utility experience? Why do you feel like other people are more ignorant than you on this subject?To streamline this conversation, I started as a handy man and learned a little about most trades, then worked as a plumber, then as an electrician, I did some welding jobs, ive done too many rooves, I've done landscaping, I've done demolition, I've done painting, I've done tile work, I've done hardwood flooring and finally came to the conclusion that I loved framing carpentry the most. I have done enough work to fully build multiple houses on my own.What the fuck have you ever done? Have you even built a deck before? A shed? Can you even swing a hammer? Why should anybody give a fuck about your opinion?
>>222383933No need to start listing your little tradie achievements like they're war medals lmao, I already addressed that in my first post to you. Next you're gonna start repping your local union number like it's a gang sign or something. I know your type
>>222384018Union workers don't do any actual work, they are lazy. Just like you. You don't know anything on the subject at all yet you like to believe other people are the ones who are ignorant.
>>222384055I'm sorry but even if I broke it down even further into a literal toddler's story, your tradie brain is simply incapable of understanding a logical argument beyond "me expert because me build wood". Not realizing that you're essentially like a mechanic trying to tell an engineer how an engine should work.But sure, keep slinging that Ryobi, I guess.
>>222384221Knowing the name Ryobi is your biggest construction flex isn't it anon
>>222384262Struck a nerve didn't I? Build a few more shacks and you might even be able to afford a better set of tools anon.
>>222384292I swing a $300 hammer and make 6 figures building peoples dreams, but what does any of that have to do with building standards and practices? Why do you avoid any question relating to the topic?
>>222384338The fact that you felt the need to clarify your tools' price bracket because of my goofy little jab tells me all I need to know lmao.>Why do you avoid any question relating to the topic?What question, the one regarding "muh experience"? Because I'm not a moron who conflates expertise with an actual argument like you. I already hinted at my occupation in my earlier post, but I didn't want to bring it up as a point because like I said, it's irrelevant even if I was a structural engineer. I'm not that type of engineer, but even the general engineering courses I took are enough. It doesn't take an expert to tell you that the compressive strength, stiffness, shear strength, etc. of wood are, in fact, weaker than masonry. Even a literal toddler knows that.
>>222384533>It doesn't take an expert to tell you that the compressive strength, stiffness, shear strength, etc. of wood are, in fact, weaker than masonry.I can see why you dropped out of your entry level engineering course lol
Why not build Earth homes for once & all?
>>222384600>still no argumentI design and troubleshoot the things that people like you break your back to build, all from the comfort of an air-conditioned room btw. Since you want to get into a digital dick-measuring contest that badly.
>>222384641based dwarfmaxxing
>>222384671Yet your pinnacle of engineering knowledge breaks down to "rock harder dan wood"Shear strength doesn't even come from the wood, it comes from the sheathing but im not even sure you know what sheathing is based on what you've replied with so far
>>222384671>calls out fallacy>offers nothing but fallacies himself>cant even reference a degree as experience, can only vaguepost about courses he took>just makes basic observations about a topic he wont delve into because he knows he'll be humiliated so he tries to maintain the aloof non-caring position despite constantly replying>ends it with his own appeal to authority fallacy with absolutely nothing of substance given
>>222384715Sheathing is something that is straight-up missing from half of the shacks being build in this country nowadays, precisely because of mouthbreathers like you.>Yet your pinnacle of engineering knowledge breaks down to "rock harder dan wood"Unfortunately if I used bigger words, you'd have an even harder time understanding it, rock for brains.
>>222384641I love these. very tornado safe, and super cool. literally. i guess its more labor intensive?
>>222384751>Sheathing is something that is straight-up missing from half of the shacks being build in this country nowadays, precisely because of mouthbreathers like you.You are so fucking retarded. A frame would literally collapse with the lightest breeze if it had no sheathing, you would not be able to shingle a roof without sheathing. You are so unbelievable clueless that there is not any point in replying to you anymore. I genuinely can't even imagine what you think sheathing is if you think the majority of houses don't have sheathing
>>222384733>complains about me not mentioning my degree>complains about appeal to authority in the same postLmfao
>>222384759Wouldn't it be more labour intensive to constantly rebuild new neighbourhoods. But then thats probably the reason. So construction companies, insurance companies & housing developers can run a racket. What unironically happens when a tornado destroys a town? I assume neighbourhoods are rebuilt with home owners have to rebuy with their insurance money or just move away but like what happens when most of a town is levelled. Is it just abandoned?
>>222384789https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/t5eldx/no_sheathing_under_siding/https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/19fcs8q/so_i_just_learned_that_my_house_doesnt_have_any/https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebuilding/comments/1o1owkr/home_has_no_sheathing/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_XaPI47JKcOr you know, I could also just walk down the road in person right now and take a picture of the new bullshit development, undoubtedly being built by someone almost as retarded as you are.
>>222384803Now I know you have no degree if your reading comprehension is that poor.Classic.
>>222384872>Your range of knowledge on sheathing is a bunch of reddit posts from people who have no idea what they're talking about either and the one that actually has pictures shows sheathing on both the roof and the gable end wall.Be honest anon, did you gather these links from gemini?
>>222377349lol interesting but fair cope. I am autismo and I do think people overrate tornadoes and underrate earthquakes, especially in America. You are correct that (mid)westerners have no idea what's coming. This is also why Japanese houses are such flimsy shit. Have you been in one? You can literally smell whatever plastic it's molded from. Yet yuros never see it fit to target them. I have been in a level 7 earthquake in Japan. The following weeks, all the brick buildings in the city had red stickers on them, which is a shame because they're already pretty rare and probably from Taisho times or whatever. The people who actually died were killed by traditional tiled roofs and mudslides. Everyone in a synthetic cuckhouse was fine
>>222384889Project harder lmao. The fact that you misread my post about courses and didn't know that general courses + major related courses = degree is how college works tells me all I need to know.
>>222385015>still nothing of substanceSpoken like a true dropout
>>222385007>conveniently ignores the other linksHere, have some more lol.https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/re-siding-a-house-and-there-is-no-sheathinghttps://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/wuunm7/residing_house_that_has_only_12_foam_board_no/https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/1cti6xs/house_wrap_over_studs_on_house_with_no_sheathing/https://www.diychatroom.com/threads/1990s-house-with-no-sheathing.80885/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organicI mean are you literally denying the existence of bullshit builds that have no sheathing now? From the guy that was all about having "tons of experience" in the field? I'm not even in construction and I know about this happening.
>>222385137Yes I am denying the existence of a home having no sheathing at all considering there would be nearly zero shear strength to the frame and it would likely collapse within the week it was constructed. The fact that you can't grasp that and continue to throw gemini links at me like you're going to find some solution to this problem is actually sad. You know much less about construction than even the average person.
>>222385204>he doesn't know about bracingSo this whole time the so-called "capentry expert" is a novice at wood construction too, in addition to not knowing that rock harder than wood. LMAO
>>222385338>>he doesn't know about bracingsheathing is bracing you mushroom. You use bracing while framing before the sheathing has gone on, you can use metal strapping as bracing, but that still makes it sheathing.Am I teaching a beginners woodworking class here? Did you not have to build a bridge out of popsicle sticks in school? You should've learned this then, let alone in any engineering class you claim to have taken.
>masonry is cheaper than wood framed housing in eurostanwhat a fucked up continent
>>222385415Obviously in context I'm referring to diagonal bracing, you mushroom. But of course you actually knew that, and are now in the stage of >oh shit I've been exposed as someone who doesn't know shit, time to pretend to be retarded as damage controlStill laughing at the fact that you claimed to be highly experienced in wood construction yet didn't know about the existence of sheathing-free meme builds until now.
>>222385509What sheer value does completely vertical or horizontal bracing have mr 'engineer'
>>222385459when you see how few trees they have it makes sensethese idiots chopped them all down years and years ago FOR BOATS
>>222385459It's because they used up all their old growth trees by like, the late middle ages, unironically. They've had centuries to figure out how to build masonry cheaper by now (it's still not cheap doe)>>222385532>completely vertical or horizontal bracing>when I clearly said diagonal bracingSo in addition to pretending to be retarded, he is now pretending to be illiterate. LOL
>>222385650I was making a point that all bracing is diagonal because there is no value in horizontal or vertical bracing you actual moron.
>>222385705Yes yes, keep changing the subject away from the fact that you literally refused to believe that houses (I use that term loosely) without sheathing exist, Mr. "Carpenter". And could not come up with an alternative for shear strength until I reminded you of let-in braces, something you should have learned week 1 of carpentry class.
>>222385852Give me an example of bracing that is not acting as sheathing on a fully built home.
>>222385878Literally all of the links I provided earlier have that (presumably). Because if they didn't, they'd collapse, as you even pointed out yourself.You...DO know that sheathing is not the same thing as bracing, right? Sheathing *provides* bracing, along with multiple other things. Picrel is bracing that is not acting as sheathing. If I can stab a dull knife through the shitty vinyl siding of a house into the interior drywall, that is an unsheathed but braced exterior wall.Do I need to use smaller words?
>>222386023You linked a drawing anon, that is not a fully built home. Show me a fully built home with no sheathing
>>222386102A fully built home has siding/drywall covering the walls so that it is no longer visible, genius. If you just wanted to see the structure, I already provided multiple links with images of exactly that.But I want to see how you squirm out of this, so I'll even attach two more for you here.Left is something you'd see in an older POS. In fact a diagonal let in brace was how they used to build these shitty wood frames before OSB or particle board came around.Right is a modern POS with newfangled styofoam slop that they're calling "insulation sheathing", and honestly I don't know which one is worse.>inb4 hurr durr yeah that counts as sheathing, it says so right there on the panel!
Here's another brand of foamslop. They even advertise it can be used "with or without sheathing".https://www.atlasrwi.com/products/wall/residential-light-commercial/energyshield
>>222386318They clearly ripped off the sheathing for that picture, you can see the nail holes and you can see the sheathing on the other wall at the corner.>>222386389This is not fully built and doesn't even have a roof (which will have sheathing on it regardless of what they use on end walls
>>222386473>w-well at least the roof will have sheathing on it, even if the walls are unsheathed foamshit!!I accept your concession then.>This is not fully builtOk, here you go. Behold, a fully-built house without sheathing. I gotta say, I was expecting a bit more creativity in your weaseling.
>>222386581What are those shingles nailed into
>>222386599>w-well at least the roof will have sheathing on it, even if the walls are unsheathed foamshit!!I accept your concession then.I gotta say, I was expecting a bit more creativity in your weaseling.
>>222386643Whats that on the adjacent wall
>>222386732>w-w-well at least SOME of the walls are sheathed! who needs sheathing on every part of the exterior anyways??I accept your concession.I gotta say, I was expecting a bit more creativity in your weaseling.
>>222386772Did you not say half of the houses being built had no sheathing?
>>222386797>what is hyperboleForget going back to carpentry school, it looks like it's time for you to go back to 3rd grade actually.
>>222386844>wait no strapping doesnt count as sheathing>no wait sheathing on the roof doesnt count either>wait no sheathing on the sidewalls doesn't count>erm... actually, I was using hyperbole, ever heard of it??And yet I am the weasel here
>h-h-here's why a partially sheathed house is okay, actually!>and other copes american "woodworkers" who retardedly defend these building practices for no reason try to tell you to sell their shitty wood shackshttps://475.supply/blogs/case-studies/project-spotlight-three-tree-builds-high-performance-house-without-sheathingRemember anons, by the time your "house" starts to rot away or literally get eaten by bugs, the builder has long since packed his bags and moved on to the next suburbanite pod-house meme development.
>>222386877>strapping doesnt count as sheathingCorrect. Glad you passed the first module of your Carpentry for Dummies class, anon. Now finish the rest of the class before trying to act knowledgeable on the internet again, so you can save yourself the embarrassment next time.
>>222386937>go to link>click on their exampledamn... no sheathing in sight huhalso try to click their website link if you want a good laugh bud
>>222387068I dunno about you, but I'd want a house with a solid slab of plywood over all exterior walls. Not just the roof. Not just the corners. Not just shear walls.But hey, maybe I'm the crazy one for wanting a wall that I can't punch a hole through with a big hammer.
>>222387263Probably not if you lived in a desert (basically the only place in the country where they sacrifice any amount of sheathing)
>>222382522>that makes building expensiveThis.You can spend a million dollars on a home that will still get fucked up by a tornado and repair it, but it won't ever be perfect and you'll be chasing things after each repair, or you can just build cheaper and start from the ground up each time.
>>222384221>like a mechanic trying to tell an engineer how an engine should work.Sometimes practical knowledge is more valuable than theoretical knowledge
>>222377433Seriously, houses built to European building standards can be destroyed by even moderately large earthquakes.
>>222377090I heard Nordics like to build with wood too
>>222387891Obviously in areas where there are no earthquakes. Building standards are adopted based on the local conditions. If the local area has earthquakes or tornadoes or whatever then the building standards must reflect that. But Americans for some reason refuse to do that. Usually when you mention it they say it would be too expensive for ameripoors.Most houses in the world would get crushed by the snow we have because the building standards aren't made to take into account the snow load on the roof because there is no snow.
If you can punch a hole in the wall of your living room, you dont have a house.
>americans see this and be like: "Yep. I'm going to build my house from that!"
what would a tornado-proof house look like?
>>222394234https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-WJqqw5GcE
>>222389863yea in queensland the buildings, which are mostly timber framed btw, are built much more robust because of cyclones. they're also more likely to be off the ground.taste also plays its part though. western australia is the only place in the country where structural brick (rather than brick veneer anchored to a timber or steel frame like the rest of the country) is the norm for houses. the reason for brick veneer being ubiquitous is also taste. nowadays some houses are built with it covered, so you put in a non-structural wall then cover it. alternatives to this for cladding a house are completely underdeveloped because no one does it.>>222382680>regulations>greecepay
