What went right?
>>222478620Stole my ancestors land
If you didn’t bully ukies back then, it could have been even better
>>222478690Everyone agrees tbf
>>222478791So did the Polish general public forget this simple fact lately?
>>222479321?
>>222479562controversial topic alert
>>222479321they are doing it to avoid potential casus belli from Puccia, which may take place quite soonnothing personal
>>222479562Certain elements of Polish society have been hysteric for the last few weeks over one of our SOF units being granted a honorific title they don't like
>>222479321>>222479753UPA/OUN for Poles is exclusively about nailing infants to the trees and sawing women in half, its just incredibly embarassing, even if you claim that was just the western part of it, you still build your national identity around an organization 1/3 of which committed a genocidal murder of 50,000-100,000 civilians, you should just drop it, it's like Germans worshipping SS
>>222479864I don't see why Poland should be able to dictate who should be in our historic pantheon. It's not like there are no controversial people and organizations in Polish one, but you don't see us complain about them all at any excuse.Moreover, for us, UPA is seen exclusively as heroes who desperately fight against the russians and the Germans in an attempt to secure freedom for us all.
>>222479864can we denounce those horrors but keep the rest simultaneously ? or is it all irreversibly damaged in its totality ?
>>222480089You are right. You have your sovereignity and you're currently fighting to keep it so you can pick your own pantheon of heroes.However based on your choice we can decide if we want you to join EU and share a market and have no border between and due to this issue that's a no from from us. That is all. And no, none of our heroes commited a systemic genocide.
>>222480089>It's not like there are no controversial people and organizations in Polish oneFalse. Jesus of Europe.
>>222480277Nawrocki is a euroskeptic tho.Apart from avoiding aggression we may never know the entirety of his motives.
>>222480089>I don't see why Poland should be able to dictate who should be in our historic pantheonand i dont see why ukraine should dictate what poland doesbut here we are!fucking mongoloid
>>222480369He's a hoodrat cato-taliban. He's not that complicated.
removed g*rmans
>>222480277Using contested interpretation of historical events as an excuse for veto is not a very "European" argument. Need I remind you, that EU itself was built by integrating Germany into a common European project.
>>222480530But Germany isn't naming things after Hitler
>>222480441Is Pope Leo aware of his activities thinly veiled as catomaxxing ?
>>222480422>and i dont see why ukraine should dictate what poland doesIt's not my country that is seething relentlessly for a month now over some unit name. Imagine for a second, if we were as mad about things in Poland being called after the famously uncontroversial and totally not very morally questionable Armija Krajova.
>>222480607Don't believe the rumors. Jewish press invented a lot of bullshit to stop him during his campaign.
>>222480558Neither do we
>>222478620Immigration control while the rest of us are being mutted to extinction
Reminder that he majority of the members and leadership within the OUN and the UPA were Greek Catholic.
>>222480673Hitler = genocideUPA = genocideWhat are you not getting? I'm not trying to be a dick about it believe me Poland would like to have a good relationship with Ukraine for business reasons but there really is no difference between UPA and the SS. In fact their cruelty was even worse. How come Germans can have the awareness not to name things after Hitler, NSDAP or SS but you stand your ground on UPA. AK has done some bad stuff but not genocide with excessive cruelty and in the western world there is a consensus that things like that are le very very bad.
>>222480643With all due respect, but for the 5th year of aggression both of you should have coordinated these topics, like what Poland and Lithuania did before their entry into the EU.It’s either the politicians of old have had enough wisdom to not beef about it publically or it is being done on purpose this time.
>>222480817>With all due respect, but for the 5th year of aggression both of you should have coordinated these topics,We literally did. Not our fault Nawrotski's popularity was falling and he decided to escalate.>In June 2022, Ukraine and Poland reached an understanding at the presidential level and among relevant institutions to avoid discussing divisive historical issues until the end of the war, precisely because such topics had repeatedly generated tensions.https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/articles/2026/06/12/7239408/
>>222480089>uhm... These bad Nazis were based and heroes even if they killed children, because they fought against Soviets or algo.Why are you like that?I mean we have some human-eaters like "Dzerzhinsky-title" in our governmental structures and everything. But many people despise it.
>>222480966>We literally did. Not our fault Nawrotski's popularity was falling and he decided to escalate.His polls are unusually stable. This whole thing started because Zelensky named that unit and there was no way that this could go unnoticed in Poland and had to be addressed. Simple as.
>>222481023Honestly I would love if our government abolished most of the Soviet namings and everything like that.I mean some monuments of Lenin, Stalin or whatever is alright. It's part of the history. But why Vyatka is still named Kirov and why every city has a street of Lenin and a street of Dzerzhinsky is mindblowing to me.However we have no power here...
>>222480812Saying that UPA and the SS were literally the same thing is extremely dishonest. The SS was a core part of a Nazi state. UPA is remembered for their role in the struggle for independence for independence and against soviet rule. We won't "throw away" UPA, it isn't realistic. But you are wrong to think that we don't understand that UPA were "flawless heroes" that did nothing wrong ever.
please guys, stop discussing politics on the /int/ernational board, it makes no sense and neither side will agree with the other onelet's talk about wonderful Polish culture or Warsaw's awesome skyline instead
>>222481121>Bandera worshipOh please, grow up already
>>222481121EU won’t last for long if the zone you speak of is allowed to endure.You MUST cook up a reconciliation plan which isn’t just “uuhm, just denounce Bandera sweaty”.
>>222481104>bro just rename the streets bro it'll fix everything bro just once broBe careful what you wish for. Aside from confusion for a good while do you really trust those in power to rename them properly?
>>222481365Yeah, so that makes 3 of you.Get brainstorming
>read some about UPAlmao why are Ukrainians worshipping literal toddler slayers
>>222481305>>222481397For fuck's sake, no one is worshipping them
>>222481342What the hell are you even on about? The russians also seethe at UPA relentlessly, that's one of the reasons their historical prominence in Ukrainian his has been growing over, actually.
>>222481499you can’t harness this spite without triggering poles as well, apprently
>>222481369>do you really trust those in power to rename them properly?If they rename it from Soviet shit then yes, probably.My city had some streets renamed by Soviets, but some of them have returned their names after the dissolution:Bolshevistskaya -> YekaterininskayaSovetskaya -> Petropavlovskaya
>>222481396I forgive Poland and Poles for their backstabbing in 1921, polonisation, pacification of Eastern Galicia, and their war crimes against Ukrainians during WW2. Hence, I ask that Poland and Poles forgive us for what we did to them.
I was warned to not talk politics or I will get banned again. Genuinly hope we can come to an agreement. Here's some ass.
>>222481772The point is only you was deleted and warned. Which is unfair.The jannies are always biased here.
>>222481772>I was warned to not talk politics or I will get banned again.goodonly culture hereeveryone is free to discuss what he likes about Poland EXCEPT politics
>>222481772Nice ass. Have some too
>>2224816431921 there was no more steam to completely defeat Soviets. The rest is valid.
>>222481643I love you guys and wish you success.Russians should support you too, you are their last hope to overthrow autocracy.
>>222481985You’re genetically indistinguishable btw
>>222482017just like you and Chechens?
>>222482068Us and abkhazians would be more fitting
>>222482118Can you remind me what's the websites' name?
>>222482220Vahaduo
>>222481643i don't forgive Poles for my Breslau
>>222482338you have never even been there, come on
>>222482378i was once there, its full of poles!
>>222482378What is there now? Nothing
>>222482338It’s Wroclaw, chud
>>222482397>its full of poles!good point m8, your observation skills are truly something though today it's actually quite international, like it is estimated that around 25% of the city are Ukrainians now >>222482403well, it's still a fairly big city, though i can agree replacing fancy jugendstil architecture with brutalist commieblocks was a bit of a stretch
>>222482480>though today it's actually quite international, like it is estimated that around 25% of the city are Ukrainians nowWow i am at loss for words. Imagine telling someone this in 1939 lol
>>222482513well, do you think someone in 1939 would have imagined what the current ethnic composition of berlin could be like? life loves surprises
>>222482571DANKE MERKELoder etwas
>>222482410We do, you just choose to focus on other thingshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_Tactical_Aviation_Brigade
>>222482626is there anything related to Kyivan rus'? Seems you guys are more focused on Cossacks and Early 20th century
fun fact is one of the ideas for the new border in 1945 from the Allies (especially the western ones) actually advocated for a border strictly drawn along the Oder which would mean that Breslau/Wroclaw would be a divided city.While for us it's good it didn't happen still, such a scenario would be quite interesting from the current perspective.funnily enough, while probably the allies didn't even know about it, this scenario would have some historical grounds because the right-bank part of Wrocław was the older one, founded by the Polish kings, with the cathedral, castle etc., while the left-bank (with the market square) was the "new" city founded by German colonists later in the Middle Ages.
>>222482711yeah, they have awards named after duchess Olha (Helga in Old Norse)
>>222482711Sure, we have multiple brigades maned after grand princes, plus a lot of mottos and symbols
I like mushrooms. We have some kickass mushrooms.
>>2224800890 of our "pantheon" heroes nailed infants to the trees or cut pregnant women open and put cats inside, its true there were some bandit figures tied to the AK for example, but 1 none of them are major national symbols to anybody 2 none of them engaged in anything remotely similar to to the volhynia massacre(50,000-100,000) civilians murdered, if these are your national heroes then you don't deserve and won't have any sovereignty and security, because you're fucked in the head, simple as
>>222480643AK wasn't morally questionable, it was a very large underground organization, a few bandits whose worst crimes is plundering a village of two won't change that, you're either entirely unaware of the scale and severity of the Volhynia massacre or youre trolling, nobody claims Polish heroes are saints or clean, but they didn't engage in ethnic cleansing on a mass scaleyours did
>>222484821>0 of our "pantheon" heroes nailed infants to the trees this made me look up the massacre and now want to throw up. Sad what humans are capable of
>>222485000the thing is, Volhynia massacre is something you can't believe had actually happened, maybe in some ancient history or Africa, but it happened in 20th century Europe, I guess Holocaust overshadowed that so people don't know about it, but it's absolutely mind-blowing I never cared for muh Poland sacred le evil neighbours bullying us, but after I read about it I can't say anything other than Ukrainians are absolutely autistic/sociopathic for sidestepping it and pretending everything's fine, and building their national identity of people who did these things, even being remotely connected with it is eternal shame, if Ukrainians want to build a country on UPA legacy then I wish they have none, its literally as if some German party started whitewashing Einsatzgruppen"but a few guys from AK attacked a village or two so its totally the same" (in retaliation after Polish women got brutally murdered)
>>222485174The thing is you need such National persons or myths for a nation to become a nation, its just Ukraine doesnt habe that much to choose from because of their short time of statehood i guess
>>222485174>the thing is, Volhynia massacre is something you can't believe had actually happenedWtf. I've heard a bit about it, but I thought it was something like serborez case, when some Croat killed many civilians overnight. But the think with UPA continued for YEARS with direct orders to kill the citizens.Honestly, at some point I started to thought that UPA weren't really bad and really thought for independence, because this Ukrainian guy says it a lot on /int/ when the topic is mentioned. But fuck... No wonder our government lumps them with Nazis, they did the same genocide shit, but on more domestic level, because they couldn't create concentration camps.
SLOVJANSKA UNIJA KOGDA? PRESTANITE RABOTATI S INOZEMNYH JEZYKOV
>>222485327>its just Ukraine doesnt habe that much to choose fromThey could larp as Cossacks or they could go down to the times of Civil wars of Russia.I think it has too many different territories to get some unified heroes idea.
>>222485516denounce ante
>>222478620Poland... more like P LAND
>>222485327>nation, its just Ukraine doesnt habe that much to choose from because of their short time of statehoodENTER
>>222485507>Honestly, at some point I started to thought that UPA weren't really bad and really thought for independence, because this Ukrainian guy says it a lot on /int/ when the topic is mentioned.UPA were their main fighting organization for independence so they are unable to drop associating themselves with it, but it stained its hands with acts of abominable barbarity and put an eternal shame on the nation of Ukraine.And yes, they only murdered fewer Poles than Russians and Germans did because they were weaker.
>>222481772Unf
>>222485712Yes, a lot of heroes have come of the war, and more will, unfortunately. But no, we will not "erase" the history of UPA from our historical consciousness, even if the feeling of some Poles might be hurt. It was a very important movement in our history, on par with the Forest Brothers in the Baltics or AK for you. Suppose we ask you to "purge" everything related to AK and acknowledge that they were despicable war criminals who killed over 15 thousand helpless Ukrainian civilians. You'd just laugh in our faces before telling us to fuck off. Hence, why do you expect us to react substantially differently to an absolutely equivalent demand from from your side, aside from being laughed at and told to fuck off?Just forgive and be ask for forgiveness, anon. It's been more than 80 fucking years already, no one from that time that did anything bad is still alive.
>>222486707Surrender than. You will never be of the west so the war is pointless.
>>222487103We ARE of the West, and literally the only ones of the West who do anything at all do defend it from the muscovites.
>>222487439Much like with the Polish interpretation of the events of Volhynia, I chose the upper end of the casualty estimate and worded everything it in an way that pins the blame exclusively on the other side and erases any context that was there in the first place. You see how it looks now?How blind do you have to be, not to see the that the way you and many others choose to approach this is completely counterproductive to historic reconciliation?
>>222487767I'm afraid it's you who has to get of their horse and come to realize that this is something we will not budge on. Too much blood was spilled already for us to get even to where we are now. Moreover, "uncomfortable history" is just an excuse, to avoid discussing the future of CAP and Polish comic competitiveness in light of our inevitable ascension, like it or not. If anything, stories like this, is one of the key reasons Poland is not in the "big boys" club of European decision-making. Nevertheless, we are very much open to constructive dialog with partners who come to us in good faith and with willingness to compromise - like Magyar's Hungary.
>>222487214we tried to stop the muscovites but the west betrayed us
Anyway, it's 1 am, and I have places to be in the morning. Hence I'm departing for the night. I hope you will consider my words, and will revaluate how your approach certainly questions of remembrance. A more pragmatic dialog is really necessary.
>>222478620Hard-working, well-educated and entrepreneurial populace. Good choices to align ourselves with the West as early as we could. Feels good to be Polish.
Urinians have no self-awareness whatsoever
>>222488454In the end I'm sure they're going to cry that they've been betrayed.
>>222487214>We ARE of the Westcorrupt shithole that is only hostile to russia cuz they literally started bombing you
