Was the collapse of the ottoman empire at least partially due to the rise of proto-israel and global zionism?Or was it bound to happen anyways due to general lack of organization / state collapse?
>>223125847>proto-israelWtf is that
>>223125847I think it was over anywayOttomans commited a terrible mistake in not forcing everyone speak turkish
>>223125847what is this gay shit why would we join this 'ottoman' it sounds retarded
>>223125847They could have survived if they switched to using Arabic for everything and rebranded as some neo pan islamic caliphate
>>223125847Similar to how Germans unleashed the communist brainvirus to destabilize Russian Empire, the Russians goaded jews into joining the "Lovers of Zion" and sicked them onto the poor Ottomans to scramble their empire. Then it got out of control.
>>223125961>rebranded as some neo pan islamic caliphateThey did tho
>>223125847The ottomans collapsed due to failure to modernize its military and then a failure to industrialize its economy it was kept on life support by western powers for the 19th century and then died after losing ww1
>>223125888before the creation of the state of israel, there was a huge community of generally aligned jewish zionist organizations that made up a roughly shaped israeli state. These include: >Jewish Agency for Palestinewhich organized jewish immigration, land settlement, and economic development in palestine and became the central political instituion of the Yishuv. >The World Zionist Organizationwhich advocated for jews outside of Palestine for decades before the creation of israel, and played a major role in shaping a jewish population with an interest in creating israel.>Keren Hayesod (Jewish National Fund and Palestine Foundation Fund) which acquired huge tracts of land through purchasing agreements in Palestine >the Shai and Mossad LeAliyah Betthese organizations formed the center of the future Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, which collected intelligence and organized clandestine operations against local Palestinians, forged immigration documents in the assistance of settling jews on the land, developed international networks for the support of zionist jewry, etc.together, these organizations all became the Israeli state.
>>223125847the best thing i can say is it has nothing to do with anything you sayyou clearly don't have slightest knowledge of history or even modern politicshow did you even learn about the ottoman empirewhy are you even asking this
>>223126033what resources do you recommend for learning a history of the ottoman empire then?
>>223126028Well these organizations did not any meaningful role in the ottoman collapse.
>>223125847its because the ottoman rulling classes were completely retarded as they were incompetant and the middle class CUP were somehow even worse
>>223125847because they tolerated shiites they collapsed
>>223126100I agree that these specific organizations likely didn't play any role in the ottoman collapse. But Jewish elite advocacy for an occupied palestine (with rothschild, etc) absolutely did play a role its very similar to the position of Egypt today I think. Is Egypt a weak and failing state? Absolutely it is, but being near Israel isn't helping it at all either. British Zionism led directly to the UK entering the Sykes Picot agreement, which allowed the UK to claim administrative control over Palestine, severing it from the Ottoman Empire. This played a major role in getting the allied powers in a war against the ottoman empire, crushing them into oblivion. The impact of zionism here is undeniable.
>>223126033
>>223126064>you clearly don't have slightest knowledge of history or even modern politics>how did you even learn about the ottoman empire>why are you even asking thisyou don't have any comments about these things i asked?...don't even bother if you are an 80 iq redneck conspiracy theorist that just landed in this board from /pol/ or some shit like that
>>223126246>I agree that these specific organizations likely didn't play any role in the ottoman collapse. But Jewish elite advocacy for an occupied palestine (with rothschild, etc) absolutely did play a role Not really.They didnt have the influence they do now.Geopolitical events idifferent to the actions of zionists or their supporters ended the ottoman empire.
It was because balkanoids got inspired by the nationalis wave in Europe (which killed Europe BTW) and thought they would be better off in their own totally legit “nations” where actually it was bunch of dotted villages with each having 0.1% difference. So they chimped out against Ottoman Empire, and then they fought useless nigger wars between each other, and then they fell for communism, and then they fought more useless nigger wars. Now despite most of them being in the EU for more than a decade they still represent a black hole of infrastructure and economy between Turkey and real Europe.But yeah there were also ziokikes tying to lobby the brits to take Israel for them.
The Ottoman Empire would have collapsed in the 1830s and basically every decade after that but the British continually bailed them out because they wanted to contain Russia.The Ottomans eventually got sick of this because the British also intervened against them when it looked like they might recover some of their power and so decided to side with Germany, at which point the British were happy to dismember the entire thing.Zionism had nothing to do with it except for the Balfour Declaration, which was only issued because they were already planning on carving it up and they figured they might as well buy Jewish support for the war (contrary to what /pol/ will tell you Jews tended to be more sympathetic to the central powers as they hated Tsarist Russia significantly more than Imperial Germany)
>>223126406>reddit spacingthat is not truebritian and france interviened on the side of the ottomans because ottomans were giving concessions to them and british and french were basically controlling the ottoman economythe first railroad in the ottoman empire was built by the british in anatolia for example, connecting a coal mine to the coast because they were the ones profitting from the lands of the ottoman empire
>>223126289I mean those questions are just insults I don't know what comment you want from me. If you have any suggestions for books or lectures about the history of the ottoman empire I'd be happy to check them out, I am not some /pol/ conspiracy theorist, just a fan of history. I like the Empire podcast, If you are interested they did a series on the Ottoman Empire. I haven't checked it out yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SGk92xW-VIYou are right that my claim is uninformed. I don't know much about the ottoman empire or its collapse. Need to read up about it which is why I'm asking for resources, if there are any you enjoyed.>why are you asking thisSpecifically, it's because I'm currently reading about the history of Antisemitic persecution in Europe, and the growth of the elite Zionist networks which powered the earliest zionist causes.These grew out of an event called the Jewish Emancipation in the 1800s, in which Europe's jews were allowed to integrate into greater European society, being given full rights as citizens. Backlash against emancipation led to re-segregation during world war 1, as europe's jews rapidly ascended in academic and business circles, popular theories of the jewish identity as a race rather than a religion proliferated, leading to nazism, holocaust etc. >>223126406>Ottoman Empire would have collapsed in the 1830s>kept alive for another century interesting why even keep them alive I wonder
>>223126406>>223126467the french and the british were controlling the taxation in the ottoman empire after the crimean war and were taking their cut from the tax directly for ottoman empires debt towards them
>>223126500if you were a fan of history though you would already have some clues about it as ottomans participated in important parts of world hisory in modern era and was an important country in general>resourcesmaybe watch like kings and generals youtube videos or somethingthey don't really talk about non-politics related stuff though from what i know
>>223126642Idk what to tell you lmao I’ve spent the last year listening to history podcasts like the one I’ve posted every day, and I watch plenty of YouTube videos / video lectures on history as well. I’ve mainly been interested in other subjects, and have not yet delved into ottoman history, despite its importance yes. Yea I like that channel.
>>223126642>saaar we wuz important >>223126107This.
>>223126406this basically
>all the replies itt saying they could've kept goingAre you guys stupid?When Ataturk founded the republic, like 90% of the entire population was completely illiterate.The Ottoman Empire was a barbarian islamic expansionist state that only lasted for as long as it did because of land conquests, slave trade and controlling ancient trade routes. Once they couldn't conquer anymore, slave trade ended and the ancient trade routes had gradually lost their relevance it was game over for them and they even lasted way more than they should have.
So Jews weren’t even a serious political force until the 1900s? How did they grow in power so quickly?
>>223125847ps2 rock band guitar hero algorithm
>>223126947The second Portuguese sailed around Africa it was over. The second Ottos failed to modernize it was giga over.>>223127031They did the banking of European kings because kings wanted to bypass the no usury law of Christanity and some Jews like Rothschilds even became nobility?
>>223127031there were rich zionist (nationalist) jews who influenced other countries by connecting to their politiciansjews are blackmailing your pedophile president by threatening to release stuff about the epstein files nowadays for examplewhy do you think usa attacked iran
>>223125847it was always going to collapse. they did nothing for the entire time it existed
>>223127031Basically they were already rich in finance and got more rights(?) by the exact time money in finance really started to take off with improving tech.
>>223127128>they did nothing for the entire time it existedthen why were bulgarians living under the ottoman empire for 500 years which makes like majority of bulgarian history probably?
>>223127161it doesn't, but also how is that doing anything? what did the ottomans accomplish exactly? why am i not speaking turkish today?
Why is the Ottoman Empire important
why is history important
>>223125847As perfidious as they can be the Yids had nothing to do with it really. Ottomans were more or less cooked in the 1700s and propped up and subverted by the UK and France in the 1800s to check the Russians. The earlier sultans were competent and active rulers but later ones barely left the palace and were surrounded by increasingly retarded counsel as time went on. Janissaries were at first useful but then their own parasitical political class and kingmakers. European empires circumvented their chokehold of east-west trade by sailing the oceans and many had population booms that the Ottomans didn't. Anatolia was largely neglected at the expense of the southern Balkans which of course broke away in the end. Like every empire it had a good run and then stagnated.
>>223125847I think it's the other way around. The collapse of the Ottoman empire allowed for Zionism to be concretely implemented in Palestine. Why the ottomans collapsed themselves, plenty of other anons already talked about it in this thread.
good thread
>>223128281It is not an important part of history unless you are brown or autistic
>>223130307i saw you cuck
