Which religion is the most logically sound in your country?
>>223296472like a third of your image are not religions stop listening to paradox games on what is a religion
>>223296495they are though
>>223296472judaism
>>223296624Judaism only makes sense for Jews
>>223296495fuck you
>>223296671every religion only makes sense for its adherents
>>223296472Im not going to lie Islam might be more coherent than Christianity. It is clearly monotheistic, whereas christianity is kind of polytheistic, I mean jesus is the son of God but he is also God and im not inclined to believe that a human can be the child of God in the first place, but idk, maybe i will burn in hell for having questions
>>223296725But I mean Jews as an ethnicity
>>223296472why is the chinese character for tree a symbol of confucianism
>>223296671kind of, cause its particularist, its only meant to save jews, whereas christianity and islam are universalist, but at the same time, Christians and muslims dont really have any evidence for the idea that their prophets actually have continuity with the old testament, much less for the ideas that men walked on water, turned water into wine, came back from the dead, rose on a horse to the sky (muhammad)
>>223296774the problem with Islam I think is the insistence that the Quran is perfect and no one can create anything better than the Quran.
>>223296472They're all insane but I'd say buddhism, Sikh and hindu are the best in terms of issues caused. Christianity is slightly worse but still fine. Islam is genuinely an issue.
>>223296472Most logical is Judaism and most illogical is Buddhism, but true is Christianity and close to true are sikhism and taoism.Like by internal humanistic logic its:>Judaism (hollow spiritually)>Confucianism>Islam>Christianity >Jainism>Bahai>Sikhism>Taoism>Shinto/hinduism/native/all forms of polytheism >Buddhism (schizophrenia)But thats just my dogshit opinion. I dont like polytheism nor religions that go "all other religions are true and i will come over and found a new religion that ignores all that they say about false prophets and the oneness of truth"
>>223296927sorry this is for the UK, I'm on holiday
>>223296495lolol
>>223296927I'm not talking about "issues" though. It's entirely possible for the correct thing (as in the truth, not morality) to make a lot of people uncomfortable
>>223296495The only ones that are debatable are Confuscianism/Taoism, though both undeniably contain elements of religious practice.
>>223296472I remember there was a story where the mongols gathered priest from every religion that they found and made them argue untill they found the real religion. Jews were not invited. Christians, tengrists and muslims ganged up on the buddhists who left coping and seething together with all the indian and chinese ones, but those two couldn't agree or convince the mongols as to wich one was right, so they just got drunk and beat the shit out of each other.The mongols thus concluded that there was only one God, called tengri, jesus, or allah, and that they would only worship this one god.
>>223296774Christianity only makes sense if you are either an idiot or an intellectual. Midwits cannot comprehend concepts of trinity and other dogmas and teachings while retards don’t question them and smart people actually understand them
>>223297302Well for me the most damning thing in regards to christianity is the problem of revelation. Why if revelation is true did God choose to reveal himself only to middle eastern people and not to every culture and society so that christianity did not have to be spread through war? why did earlier humans not have access to it? and if there is no problem in appearing late, why didnt God choose to send his son when things could be documented more extensively. I think that if there is a creator he never revealed himself to humanity because no religion has conclusive evidence really and there are problems such as in translation, which show the imperfection of revelation. i dont think a super intelligence needs us to worship him.
There’s only one and its sad that we cant make sure thats its the one and only, the times are really tolerant that we have to deal with pagans
>>223296925That's only an issue because you retards insisted on the uncreated thing , basically replacing the Logos with The Kalima
>>223297557Christianity makes sense if you take the chosen peoples and God of Israelites thing seriously, it's not for you, it's a tribal religion gone loco, and Jesus was epileptic
>>223297015they're all equally nuts.
>>223297557This is also a self inflicted issue because of Le Trinity and Le Virgin Birth
>>223297701I watched a video about the hitites and i felt like they are not that special honestly, Rome is better and so is Greece and even Persia and Egypt are more kino
>>223296495>like a thirdWhat are the other two besides Confucianism and Buddhism (debatable) that aren’t religions?
>>223297765no dude, judaism has the same issue, why did jews receive the covenant and why did hashem reveal himself after many generations of humans had already lived and died
>>223296472the only religion I follow is fat saggy jiggily tits in my FACE
>>223297770Which Greece, Rome, Persia or Egypt tho? Crack a book and follow the references on wiki page instead of relying on jewtube creatoors
>>223297856classical greece and rome obviously. Name 5 books originally written in hitite. They have no literature when compared to Rome or Greece.
>>223297814Jews believe that God Gives different Nations different rules tho, this is why they and the Samaritans immediately saw Muhammad as a Noahide Prophet sent to Arabians specifically
>>223297918Those creatoors you watch probably have a video on Iliad and Odyssey, both took place when Hittites were in DECLINE, just a federation of independent city states, and that's how Myceannean chuds got the idea to launch a huge ass campaign to raid those City States since Hittite Imperial Army was no longer around to protect them, the collapse caused chud kingdoms around the Levant and Anatolia to rise, a story that still repeats itself todayBut Hittites came back as Sea Peoples
>>223296472the fuck is native spirituality?
>>223298178Why, whats the point of that, morality and ethics are supposed to be universal>>223298201No, i reached that conclusion myself. A society with literature is more important and transcendent than one with little literature.
>>223296472The Baháʼí Faith is interesting
>>223297302Most Christians just don't think about the trinity, they just accept it and don't question it. Most religious people are not into theology though, they just want to go to church and be told why and how they should be a good person, and we promised eternal life.
Sun worship is the only logical one because the sun is undeniably real and also the thing that gives life to everything on earth with its warmth and light. We should all venerate the sun as our creator, though at the same time the sun is not a benevolent god, but a fickle one, and may very well destroy us all one day.
>>223296472Islam from my perspective
>>223298291The Breit is supposed to be their "responsibility" in this world
>>223298255Most likely a catch all blanket category for all smaller less known religions of note, like various African belief systems for example.
>>223298255indigenous cultural beliefs prior to the spread of mainstream religions, paganism basically
>>223296472Ancestral religion
>>223296774>Islam>coherentTry reading the Qur'an and you'll change your mind.
>>223298364The sun doesnt have a consciousness and there are things that precede the sun, it cannot be the prime mover/ uncaused cause.
>>223298369Based Shishio poster.
>>223298299They tried to unify with us in the 1900s, even stole the "Proud Pyramid Masons" thing from us
>>223298409It might have supernatural stories, such as muhammad rising to heaven on a horse, but its a monotheistic religion that claims to be monotheistic. Christianity also has supernatural stories, but it is a polytheistic (kind of) religion that claims to be monotheistic.
>>223298437I have no idea why but I always get Druze and Mandaeism confused.
>>223298364but this is like a form of pantheism isnt it? dont pantheists believe that the universe and nature are the creator but pantheists are just larping atheists
>>223298485To be fair mainstream Sunni Islam still believes in Quran being "uncreated" by god which would be considered Shituf if a rabbi claimed the Torah is uncreated
>>223298437Druze are basically Ismaiil Shias who thought that the Ismailis weren't esoteric enough, right? I don't know much about Ismailis and even little about Druze.
>>223298178>this is why they and the Samaritans immediately saw Muhammad as a Noahide Prophet sent to Arabians specificallythat's an interesting perspective. what's a Noahide? Tell me more about this.
>>223298485I know I should be neutral, but it's more that the idea that Mohammed is a prophet comes across as nonsense. The surahs where Mohammed talks about why he is telling the truth are hilarious, they're basically just>I am a prophet because I am okay? You're going to hell for not believing me.
>>223298420There's no reason to assume there even is a prime mover(the idea is a subject of heated debate among theologians and physicists alike). Or to assume a god would need to be conscious in the sense humans understand consciousness. If anything, an indifferent god makes more sense than one that has any concern for an insignificant species such as us.
>>2232987041. It is because the entire concept of God means the creator of all things, so from a theist perspective, yes it is necessary for God to be the prime mover, from an atheist perspective, it is not, but you talked about worshipping the sun (theist perspective )and i decided to take the meme seriously.2. How can you create something without consciousness?>>223298640Do the christian prophets have a more solid claim? they even made an exception for goyim not to follow jewish law and customs
>>223298802Jesus was at least known to be a healer, and people claimed to have seen him after his resurrection. Mohammed claimed to have been visited by the Angel Gabriel in a cave, and from then on just gave prophecies orally. The former at least has people supporting his claims, the latter we just have a bloke telling people things and claiming he's a prophet.
>>223298364if the sun is great the creator of the sun is even greater
>>223296774islam is the most logical religion simple as, the trinity is neoplatonic nonsense, judaism is a race supremacist cult, the rest are pagan demon worshippers>>223296925because its the word of God and God is perfect, besides thats a pro not a con, since you can preserve the text unlike the bible
>>223298881didnt he claim that he had hallucinations or spasms? well i think there was something in the old testament where they say that no future prophet would contradict jewish law, they would preserve the customs of the jewish people and one of the christian prophets bypassed this. Also wasnt the messiah supposed to bring world peace or something like that? idk you clearly know more about this than me.
>>223298577It's more like >The Logical Conclusion of the Growing anti Abrahamism in Ismaili thought >>223298635Noahides are to Jews Nations that abide by the Noahide Laws
>>223299045Mohammed? iirc people who sat with him when he had these revelations said he'd close his eyes, shake, and go red or something. The Messiah was supposed to be a king from the line of David, there was nothing about resurrection, but Jesus was also thought to be the Son of Man and God, so basically everything.
>>223298802>the entire concept of God means the creator of all thingsOnly if you define God in such a way. And again, there's no reason to assume there even is such a thing as a definitive "creator of all things" and the idea of a cyclical universe without one is common throughout various schools of thought.>How can you create something without consciousness?I created a sandwich this morning. I doubt it was conscious, especially in the sense that most humans would define "consciousness".
>>223299136Yeshua is from the Lineage of Naphtali tho
>>223296472none
>>223299281According to whom? Matthew and Luke state that he's from the Lineage of David.
>>223297639I agree, so why did you post this pagan pepe?
platonism
catholicism
>>223299341Anonymous Greek authors claimed that, not Luke and Matthew themselves The gospels are practically Christian Hadiths
>>223299398Oh yeah I'm not saying the Bible is correct, just what's canon.
Modern Christianity is the the most illogical thing. No where did Jesus teach about a 3 in 1 God and that he is God.All this nonsense came after the pagan Romans adapted it and introduced their pagan beliefs in it and killed everyone who disagreed.
>>223298364Sounds stupid because it would give even more people skin cancer
>religion>logical
>>223299464Roman Pagans actually supported Arianism tho (Constantine and two out of three of his sons were Arians)
>>223296472all religions are cults
>>223298881>bible is true cuz bible says soyeah im sure this happened
>>223300199I'm not saying it's true you brainlet, stay out of these discussions if you can't engage with them intelligently.
>>223298577They're gnostics larping as shias for taqiyya reasons, today the pro israel ones dont identify as muslim, the ones in syria and lebanon that are anti israel do i think>>223300042He's only saying that as a biased ex hindu>>223298485We have hundred of documented miracles and proven prophecies with chains of narration unlike the bible which is an anonymous text produced a century after jesus and mostly written by paul a guy who never met jesus and said he saw him in a hallucination telling him to go tell his disciples who actually lived with him that they are wrong (sounds like a demon desu)
>>223300253his post is appropriate. He's not talking about the bible being false from a neutral perspective. He's talking about 'matthew' writing events to artificially fulfill old-testament prophesies. This one especially stands out because the other synoptics don't mention it, neither does john. If you read into the 'synoptic gospel problem' you'll see matthew routinely makes these 'mistakes'. For one, he infers from a type of hebrew poetic device called parallelism to mean the messiah would come riding on 2 donkeys. this is why in his gospel jesus does come riding 2 donkeys simultaneously. The other gospels don't say this.So if your source is untrustworthy, in a certain sense, why make these claims of eye-witnesses and stuff?
>>223300926Interesting muslims never mention the Almah/Betulah stuff because it would invalidate their own religion This was actually a huge debate in fatimid Egypt
>>223301001I know about it, we independently verify the quran and it verifies jesus' messiahship. We don't need the nt or torah for that.Btw, what is a druze anyway? What do you follow?
>>223296774The more you read about Islam the more you notice that Muhammad was making up shit as he went along
Early 2000s internet atheists were right about everything btw
>>223301119Most islamic scholars deny Yeshua having Biological brothers , so Mary and Yosef didn't fugg according to islam
>>223299464If you actually read the gospels instead of being a retard who just parrots what your imam says you'll probably learn something about it
>>223300880>no need for circumcisionBased.
>>223301285
>>223300880Yea I always imagined Paul to be demon posessed.>Used to kill followers of Jesus>Claims the laws don't need to be followed anymore (Jesus never said this)>Claims everyone is born sinful and God regrets making humans>Claims the only way you can go to heaven is if you pray to a human (who is totally God guys, trust me)
>>223301285Please enlighten me. Are you going to tell me Jesus said "I and God are one" as proof that he was God?Did you know that Jesus also said that his followers were one with God? You probably didn't since YOU don't read your own gospel.
>>223301280irrelevant, which i don't even think is true, relies on a leap from no-brothers to perpetual virginity.This is a belief of the catholics that theotokos was a perpetual virgin. they interpret jesus' brothers as cousins, metaphors or step-siblings in contrast to protestants.Now that we're past the trivia class, explain what a druze is.
It's pretty funny how the religions of 6 billion people are invalidated the moment you realise that Almah doesn't mean virgin
>>223301585The concept of Mary being a virgin makes no sense especially from an Islamic point of view and I don't get how people take it literally and claim to be sane.
>>223301538>Jesus is GodJohn 1:1, 14John 20:28>Holy Spirit is GodActs 5:3–41 Corinthians 2:10–11Put those together and seeing verses such as Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"And with Paul's Benediction with 2 Corinthians 13:14"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."Makes up the argument for the Trinity. And as a good Muslim you must follow this as your Quran affirms the gospels.
>>223301820such a lukewarm gpt formulation. I bet you don't even know what the logos is, or what nicaean orthodoxy actually says
>>223301903>ChatGPT >Literally just grabbed straightforward versesNow refute it
>>223301585thats a crosscuck argument, for us the bible is not even reliable
Joseph was far more of a moral person than Yeshua ever was btw
>>223302032>for us the bible is not even reliableYour Quran says it is, so unless you're saying Allah is wrong then yes you should use the Bible
>>223302063what you have is not the complete torah or gospel you have reports and some sayings that may or may not be authentic, we take it using the quran as a filter
>>223301955I don't have the energy for a back-and-forth of scriptures, with an amateur.Just read the heretical positions of your pre-nicene church fathers. like say, Justin the Martyr?
>>223302106The Quran doesn't say that, you're making things up and twisting Allah's words.
>>223301459He was a neoplatonic hellenic jew planted by the roman empire, if his story is true he was also contacted by a demon
>according to my book your book is wrong>why?>my book said so, my book is always correctwhy even bother discussing something like this.
>>223302216yeah by what remains of truth in it
>>223302293its called internal critique
>>223300926I think you're giving a stupid poster too much credit. Matthew absolutely writes events to artificially fulfil old testament prophecies, it was a Gospel written for Jews, so has lots of 'See! He's the Messiah!'. Even Jesus being born in Bethlehem was most likely just to fulfil a prophecy, it's not mentioned in Mark, the first gospel.In my post I was comparing what we know or can know about Christianity to Islam. Putting aside whether or not it's fabricated, embellished, or accurate, if you compare the two religions there's very little within Islam itself to give weight to Muhammad being the prophet of Allah.
>>223302326The Quran doesn't say that lol. And this is why Islam is a false religion. Muhammad wasn't aware that what he was preaching was contradicting both the gospels and Torah before affirming both the Gospels and Torah. It wasn't until centuries after his death that Muslims started to read the gospels nand realize that they don't match up with what Muhammad was preaching so in order to prevent the death of the religion they just say it was "corrupted" while never providing proof because they can't.
>>223298291>universalThe idea is that some people aren’t ready for certain rules. So maybe God wants people to treat each other fairly on the basis of gender, but this idea wouldn’t be accepted in a very sexist society. So instead he says “alright at least be fair to women in divorce and don’t abandon her financially”
>>223302490If he wasnt aware then how did he "copy" it according to you and why is he fixing so many of your errors?
Why do Christians get angry if you mention that he likely Fucked Magdalene btw
>>223302720Isn't that the plot to the Da Vinci Code?
>>223302590What do you copy? I didn't say he copied, I said he affirmed those books meaning that they are correct. Those as Muhammad's words from "Allah", not mine
>>223302590He listened to the jews and pagans living in the city telling their stories in his time.If the Koran was to correct the precious scriptures he would have said so (he didn't) and there would proof of old testament archeological manuscripts that were in conformity with the Koran (there aren't).We have to trust him, bro?
Without any irony the only Christians I respect are Mormons and Jehovah witnesses
anything but buttfucking zuttsucking islam
>>223296472Islam is too convenient for its creator.Muhammad got to be a warlord and have a child harem for it. Makes you think he said whatever he needed to gain power.Early Christians on the other hand were persecuted for a long time before becoming accepted, there is no argument that it was created for selfish desires.
>>223303044What's funny is that there is a story in the Quran where Muhammad got caught cheating on one of his wives with a slave girl. The wife was obviously upset and adultery was a sin so what did Muhammad do? He had a That's So Raven experience from Allah and created pic related as a verse to get himself out of this situation kek. The guy really was just making shit up to fulfill his own desires.
>>223302358Maybe we can have a conversation on that sometime
>>223303021Unitarians and JWs are nice.
>>223303318He also married the wife of his adopted son, beacuse Allah instructed him to do so.>We gave her to you in marriage, so that there would be no blame on the believers for marrying the ex-wives of their adopted sons after their divorce. And Allah’s command is totally binding.
>>223296925The Quran usually challenges people to produce a chapter like it AND THEN FOR THOSE SAME PEOPLE TO CALL UPON WHOMEVER THEY ASSOCIATE WITH OTHER THAN GOD TO AID THEM.
>>223303318Māriyah al-Qibṭiyyah would have been Mohammad's concubine. Just like Hagar was Abraham's concubine. So it's not adultery.>>223304056"And when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, 'Keep your wife and fear Allah,' while you concealed within yourself that which Allah was to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. SO WHEN ZAYD HAD NO LONGER ANY NEED FOR HER, We married her to you so that there would not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons after they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished."
>>223302490the claim that previous books are corrupted is from a quranic verse not a centuries later invention thats why we do not follow the bible (old and new testament) but only quran you dont even know what ur talking about
>>223304056Kek, fucking Muhammad, man. Apparently Allah couldn't just reveal the law to Muhammad for him to preach, he needed Muhammad to physically marry her and be able to sleep with her to show everyone that it's a-ok to marry your adopted son's wife. The mental gymnastics Muslims have to do to disassociate the thoughts that Muhammad was bullshit everything the whole time must be tiring.
>>223304056There is no adoption in Islam. You can't adopt people and call them your sons and daughters. What you can do is just take care of them. But they do not carry your name. Muhammad marrying Zayd's wife actually doubles down on that because had Zayd been considered Muhammad's son, then Muhammad would not have been able to marry his ex-wife.
Atheism
>>223304384No mental gymnastics at all. It's clear that Muhammad did actually like her. And the Quran did not prohibit marrying the ex-wives of those young people you take care of and the Quran prohibits adoption."And when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, 'Keep your wife and fear Allah,' while you concealed within yourself that which Allah was to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you so that there would not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons after they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished."If these are considered mental gymnastics, then would you also consider how Christians justify the trinity as mental gymnastics?
>>223304420For the record this is a different Egyptian. I am the Egyptian anon speaking about the Quran.
>>223304640Most Egyptians on /int/ seem to be fedora tippers
>>223304286Surah 2:79 was talking about those who were purposefully corrupting things to make profit, not the actual scriptures. How we know he wasn't talking about the gospels? Because Allah literally tells Christian to judge by gospels.
>>223304744Who says what Paul and others anonymous people wrote is the Gospel?
>>223302216So the quran says to judge by what Allah has revealed. No muslim disagrees with that. What your simple mind doesn't understand is that random people like Paul writing things isn't 'what Allah has revealed'.What's it means is to follow what was revealed to Moses and Jesus. You christians don't follow what was revealed to Jesus.
>>223305236It doesn't even matter for this argument. Allah affirms the Gospels, there's no way around that other. If the gospels were corrupted then Allah is wrong for affirming corrupted scripture which would contradict the Islamic doctrine that Allah can't be wrong
>>223304744Gospel and the torah of the quran is not the modern bible>Surah 2:79That is not the only verse but so many verses confirms that previous books were corrupted and changed so this isnt gonna gave you the judgemental position
>>223305332Read the verse again. It literally say "what Allah has revealed IN IT" meaning that it's a physical object (not words) that Christians had on with them.
>>223305483>Gospel and the torah of the quran is not the modern bibleThe Quran doesn't say >That is not the only verse but so many verses confirms that previous books were corrupted and changed so this isnt gonna gave you the judgemental positionOk so bring the verses then.
>>223305417No it doesn't. The Quran affirms a gospel of Jesus that Christians don't use. Christians use the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
>>223305692And where is that Gospel?
>>223305742Ask yourself. You guys should use some of your resources to find and honor it.
>>223296774you can still be saved if you learn what the fuck you're talking about pedro. get a clue! unironically
>>223305841Nice deflection, but you're the one who made the argument that we don't have the right gospels which is why I'm asking you where is the correct one?
>>223305889You lost it, corrupted it and added pagan beliefs into it. That's why we have the quran.You still didn't tell me why I should believe what a random dude like Paul decided to write.
>>223305982I don't care if you believe Paul or not.>You lost it, corrupted it and added pagan beliefs into it. That's why we have the quranThat doesn't answer my question, where is that uncorrupted gospel? If you're gonna make an outlandish claim that the gospels were corrupted despite the enormous amount of historical evidences that argues against that, then you're gonna need proof to back it up, simple as.
>>223306050>where is that uncorrupted gospel?I already told you, you lost it.>proofs that the gospels were corruptedKiddings me? Well the first proof is exactly what I'm asking, some random guy like Paul writes something and you christians take it as the word of God.Second, there are many examples of your own bible sources saying verses were added or removed. You can easily find them in biblegateway. Here is an example I found in 1 min: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016&version=NIV>[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%207%3A53-8%3A11&version=NIV>The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11. A few manuscripts include these verses, wholly or in part, after John 7:36, John 21:25, Luke 21:38 or Luke 24:53.]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_criticism_of_the_New_Testament
>>223305889>>223306050We don't know where the original gospel of Jesus is. The gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the gospel of Jesus. And there is a lot of Biblical scholarship that says that the gospel of John is much more sketchy than the other three gospels.
>>223296472The more I learn about Islam the less I think of it. Their metaphysics is literally Muslims go to heaven where they have a harem of magic pretty men to have gay origies with and non-Muslims go to hell so you better fucking believe in Islam or else. Compare this to Buddhism which has actual spiritual insight and teaches compassion or Christianity where the central figure preached love and forgiveness
>>223306289So, if the manuscript record is reliable enough for you to spot those footnotes which were from the 2nd and 3rd centuries (which are included in modern Bibles) then they should be reliable enough to prove to you that the lost Gospel nonsense that you Muslim spout never existed. If we can track down and find those missing sentences (which are now included in our modern Bibles) then why can't we find that "missing" gospel books? This once again puts the burden of proof back on you to prove that there was an original uncorrupted gospel. Because those missing sentences doesn't change doctrine of those stories.
>>223306426Christianity teaches that you have to worship a man or you go to hell.
>>223296472In my country definitely Finnish ancient beliefs.
>>223306595There are schools of thought in Christianity that teach a person's deeds matter and others where reconciliation is universal. Islam is completely exclusivist and gleefully describes how non-believers suffer forever
>>223306426All false. There is no mention of orgies with men or women in the Quran and the Quran mentions a loving God dozens of times. The Quran teaches restraint and justice even in the middle of defending yourself.
>>223306660How do you reconcile an all-loving and merciful God with eternal damnation for non-Muslims?
>>223306638The Quran talks about how anyone who believes in God and surrender to him, be they Jew or Christian, or anyone else, is going to paradise. The Quran teaches that anyone who does not believe in God is going to hell.
>>223306402>We don't know where the original gospel of JesusAnd you'll never find it because it never existed. That's the problem, you can't call the gospels corrupted when you can't even provide the original uncorrupted one. Allah NEVER said the gospels were corrupted, that came later from Muslims who noticed the contradictions between the Quran and gospels.
>>223306587Look dude I'm getting bored. You keep claiming you have the Gospel but I'm not going to assume what random anonymous authors and Paul wrote is the revelation of God. I don't really get why you do.
>>223306701The same way the Christians reconcile an all loving God with a God who punishes people who hurt children and blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.God is not ALL love, God is not ONLY LOVE. Love is just one of the many attributes of God and God is vengeful and punishes evil-doers.
>>223306713You might be right. God doesn't say that.
>>223306745And you keep claiming that the Gospels were corrupted and that there's a missing one despite no proof of it which and I don't know why, actually I do because admitting that there is no secret book would destroy the entire Islamic religion for you
>>223306851jesus preached the gospel not matthew, mark, luke, john or pauls shit
>>223306833Exactly, which proves the Gospels the Quran was referring to is the one we have now which completely contradict Islam thus proving Islam is a false religion
>>223306893And where is that Gospel?
>>223296472The last one I'd say, I'm a Roman Polytheist
>>223296472I come from a Middle Eastern background, so there might be some bias in my writing that I wanted to acknowledge upfront.Islam simply makes more sense to me when it comes to the concept of God. I used to lean toward atheism during my teen years, and I think Christianity has a more respected population compared to any other religion when I was exploring the Christian religion. In the end, though, I decided to stick with Islam because my doubts vanished after I learned more about it.From my perspective, Islam makes a lot of sense, but an unfortunate aspect of it is that it has many undesirable people. That's probably due to the nature of brown people.
>>223306945That's not what I meant. Anyone who reads the whole Quran and at least the whole chapters will not come to conclusion that God wants us to judge using the books of the Bible.In these cases God is not referring to the books after the gospels, like Acts. He only refers to the Law (Torah, generally the first five books) and the Gospel and perhaps Psalms.
>>223306712Really? You can be a kind and just atheist, non-theist, agnostic, or polythiest and still suffer for eternity because you believed in the wrong interpretation of God? What if your only interaction with Muslims has been them dehumanizing non-Muslims and their beliefs online or being apologists for Islamic violence? How would you ever be given a fair shot at heaven? And does not believing in the "right" God really warrant eternal damnation? Because if it does, that's completely fucking insane>>223306793Yes, but at least Christianity has universalist schools or schools that teach a person's moral character matters, not just if they believe in Jesus
>>223296774Islam is by far the most ridiculous and incoherent of the Abrahamic faiths
>>223303021Mormons are shifty scammers who don't actually even believe what they preach. Basically 1800s Scientologists.T. Actually forced to deal with Mormons
>>223307174Even if we completely ignore Acts, Paul, and the Epistles and look only at the four Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the problem for Islam is still there. Those Four Gospels explicitly record Jesus's crucifixion, resurrection and divine authority. So whether you narrow the scope or not, the gospels that exist in history still directly contradicts the Quran
The 4 gospels are biographies arbitrarily selected by Athanasius in his festel letter. The problem is they are heavily inspired by pauline soteriology because of his early letters and writings, which is a corruption in and of itself. His salvation view is so contensious, even the supposed apostles disagree. Mark makes a claim that Jesus was a ransom for your sins, but Luke systematically edits this in his gospel when he copies those passages from Mark. He doesn't believe it. And it's not just soteriology, they have differing christologies and resurrection accounts. I don't believe this is the inspired word of God. There were competing gospels as paul says in his letter to galatians. Rather the 'synoptic gospel problem' can offer some insight into that. It's consensus in academia that matthew and luke copied from mark and a separate sayings sources called Q, special-L and special-M. Scholar kloppenberg gives a reconstruction of Q as a sayings source, and it is remarkably similar to what we would envision our sayings source or the gospel would be.
>>223296774>It is clearly monotheistic>mohammad must follow the same as AllahRemember to say PBUH. >>223297820A man of culture>>223298178>Jews believe that God Gives different Nations different rules thoSource on that?>>223300880>it's an anonymous text produced a century after jesus. >man from 600 years after Jesus is correctLOL>>223307016With the 12th Imam
>>223307376*mohammad must be followed>>223307304
>>223307269Prove it. And compare to the other religions. I think you are just biased against it.
>>223307580i like the part where it describes exactly how to split up loot obtained by war and raiding.
>>223307222The Quran does not say that people have to believe in "the muslim interpretation of God". People simply have to believe in God. One God, the creator of everything. The Christians and the Jews and the Asians and Africans and anyone who believes in the one God and does not associate anything with the one God, and do good deeds, will enter paradise.The New Testament says that blasphemers against the holy spirit will not be forgiven."Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come"
>>223307691It's much better than the parts where tens of thousands are literally raided and killed by the Israelites at the command of Moses, who also ordered them to kill children and women. And the part where David kills tens of thousands of people.War and raiding? You mean the people who kicked the Muslims out of their homes and tried to kill them and broke treaties? War is sometimes necessary to defend yourself. Or is it only justified when Moses and David order it.
>>223296472Daoism is the most sound, but it transcends logic. Everything else is tryhard cope.
>>223307885Prove that it is more sound than the rest or your position is cope. Simple as.
>>223297782Buddhism not being a religion is a retarded idea only pushed by westoid women who want to appear interesting by talking out of their ass. No actual Buddhist in Asia would say that.
>>223298291>Why, whats the point of that, morality and ethics are supposed to be universalThat's the Christian mindset speaking.This is why Christians seek to convert and evangelize everybody while Jews don't care about converting non-Jews.
>>223296472Zoroastrianism and Gnosticism
>>223296774What's wrong with polytheism exactly? Answer without referring to the books
>>223307738You aren't answering my question. Why would a God who's mercy is greater than his wrath allow sentient beings to suffer forever. Most of China is non-relgious, Buddhists believe Gods exist but non that there's a single God, Hindus believe in multiple Gods, the Japanese believe in a mix of Shintoism and Buddhism. If they were born and raised in that do they all go to hell even they were good people?
>>223296774>>223298955>filtered by the Trinity>>223301163>>223296925Look up that story of the guy who wrote the Quran for Muhammad realizing Muhammad was making shit up on the spot
>>223308102Explain the trinity to him then
Why are there so many muzzies with an european country flag, are we really this infested with shitskins that even technology unkown to them before now like an internet forum they want to take over, like every place that has europeans and is comfortable they start to enter and turn it into hot bullcrap?Mahomet got fucked in the ass by his angel.You, muzzies, amount to no achievements if you discount rape, murder and looting and Mahomet is the best mahomettan there is, because he perfectly mirrors you. Fuck off the board, go back to your countries for we built ours.
>>223308371It's one God of three persons.
>>223308371Three distinct aspects of one entity
>>223308496>>223308535I.. meant him, not me. I've spent too much time trying to understand this multifaceted religion with my middling iq
>>223308062I don't know why God decided this. I don't know the exact intention of God. But God in the Quran is not described as "more merciful than vengeful".It is also worth noting that God will also reward people infinitely as well.Why will God punish people who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit according to the New Testament? Why would God do this?
>>223296774Magnificent bait.It's so fucking easy to farm (You)s from all of these retards.
>>223308477If Muhammad was raped--which he wasn't--but if he really was raped, then that wouldn't make him an evil person, but a victim.How does mocking a victim of rape help your argument or make you look cool?Obviously Muslims have achieved much in the past just like the Romans. Are you going to deny history?
>>223296472Probably the native animism in the bottom right because it's the psychologically operative part of basically 90% of earth's decision-making
too many conversation about Islam and Christianity in this threadI was hoping for more Hinduism and Buddhism
>>223302720Christians would see it as contrary to his character in the story Like this draft of Tolkien's:>”Adieu, my dear Bilbo. Or at least, Au Revoir.”>"No. Gandalf would not speak French".This is the same guy who, having fasted extensively, resisted the temptations of animal appetite, of spiritual pride, and of ambition to power when it was clearly laid out before him. It wouldn't make sense that an ordinarily pious everyman tradesman, who triumphs over the devil, is the type of guy to leverage clout like a cult leader to have pedestrian trysts with women.
>>223309118I greatly admire Brahminism and Buddhism's historical rivalry at one point in their charitable enterprises for paupers, the sick, for orphans, et cetera.
>>223308062Everyone has an innate instinct of monotheism and we all have brains you need to use to figure out at the bare minimum the existence of God, after that people are judged and tested on their circumstances.
>>223296472Daoism is a philosophy, not a religion. Medieval Daoism stray into mythology and cultivation stuff isn't Daoist.
>>223296472honestly still buddhism, with shinto(animism) and taoism right behind. But I have a major doubts with the bajillions of you’ll spend in hell coupled with detailed tortures which seems like something they imported from zoroastrianism. But rebirth and karma is pretty robust system putting bias aside.
>>223296472Buddhism. It's not about appeasing a sky daddy that doesn't like you back. Super chill compared to the others
>The Vishnu rite is less degrading [than the Sivaite] but more childish. It consists of an elaborate and costly worship of the temple image of Vishnu, or more often of Rama, or Krishna. The image is daily awakened, undressed, bathed, decked with rich robes and adorned with necklaces, bracelets, crowns of gold and precious stones, fed with choice kinds of food, honored with flowers, lights, an incense, and then entertained with vocal and instrumental music, and with dancing by the temple girls of doubtful virtue, consecrated to this service. As Krishna is generally worshiped in the form of a child-image, his diversion consists largely in the swinging of his image, the spinning of tops, and other games dear to the heart of the child.That's kind of simple and refreshing actually>>223309627>Everyone has an innate instinct of monotheismIn a sense of idolatry, sure. >>223309639Embedded in Daoism is the folk-metaphysics of the Chinese, even to an extent, Confucianism is. Confucianism is more entertaining though because Confucius was an autistic chud and also super poor (literally me)>>223309643How does reincarnation and karma even possibly make sense to you? It's completely opposite of my intuition, I can't even imagine a system like karma.
>>223309886matter cannot be created or destroyed, ie death isn’t the end and “you” will be eventually reappear karma is just action, we simply assign moral designations to it. good bad etc That is why it conflicts with the hyperspecific and suspiciously human orthodox descriptions of heaven and hell in various religions including buddhism that I have a contention with.I am curious to see why you would disagree.
>>223296472>Shitskin is a religion When did this happen?
>>223296774Zutt
>>223310174Muhammad being raped doesn't make him a bad person and isn't actually an own. It just makes him a victim of sexual abuse. I'm pretty sure a few men can rape you too if they gang up on you. Would that make you a bad person?And it's ridiculous to see Hindu Indians use it as insult, since the ones doing the alleged raping were their ancestors. Leave it to Indians to be proud of rape.
>>223309886Everything make sense when you believe that the mechanism is beyond human understanding. Same with trinity. Same with everything about religion. Religion is faith and faith alone.
>>223310283not a single indian flag here said anything about zutt, you fucking retard
>>223310413I didn't say it was here, it happens in other threads.
>>223310457yeah but you're talking to an argentinian flag I feel bad about indians being bullied and blamed for everything now
>>223310006>matter cannot be created or destroyedI guess in your metaphysics you believe the universe to be infinite. Maybe it's a linguistic thing, because in our western understanding, after the sort of pagan cycles of dreamtime stopped being in vogue, we consider the universe finite and we refer to the things and the world as 'creation.' But eastern religion was far more studious and robust than our pagan times, which never inspired any scholarship better than the heroic poetry sagas. Orientals had the Vedas, and then the verbose and meticulous explanations and commentaries on the Vedas called the Brahmanas, followed by the metaphysical speculations of the Upanishads, and then lastly by the Sutras, which is like a sort of Catechism. I don't know how much influence ancient India has over Thailand. I'm just hazarding a guess, but I suppose the source of theory on Karma would come from the Rig-Veda, since it's absolutely foundational as a doctrine. But I wonder how much of that becomes something someone is only passively conscious of. I spoke to an international student from China once, as secular and atheist as you'd expect, but did admit to believing or at least having suspicions of past lives, even venturing to say that I myself might have been something or someone else in a past life. >>223310332This is a view suitable to any layman uninterested in theology. If you have any theological curiosity then you will eventually find working explanations or approaches to concepts like God being not impersonal, but superpersonal (transcendent of the individual). C.S. Lewis loved writing about stuff like this, as does modern inheritors of his style like Malcom Guite, but it's been traditionally explored for thousands of years by Christians. Augustine, Aquinas, etc. St. Patrick even.
>>223310478Hindu Indians actually do push a lot of anti-Muslim propaganda.
>>223310457> other threadsother threads were not serious threads at allnot relevant to the discussion here
>>223310524> whataboutismas if muslims dont push anti-hindu propoganda
Not a single post in this thread has even tried to demonstrate that any of these religions are logically sound.
>>223310520I always feel theological study is more a study of collective human psyche rather than study of the secret of the universe. I mean what secret? What universe? What truth?Still respectable study nonetheless. Like it or not religion is big part of human culture.
>>223296472It's a competition to see which one is the dumbestGenerally "religions" created by philosophers instead or prophets are far superior
>>223307916It's complicated because philosophical systems in the east are almost always tied intrinsically with religions
>>223296774>im not inclined to believe that a human can be the child of God in the first placeAchilles mother was a sea goddessTheseus papa was PoseidonHerakles was Zeus's boy
islam and mormonism are the most obvious bullshit ones>ummmmmmm god talked to me and said i need to have sex with your sisters
>>223297302Smart people understand it for what it actually is, instead of what it claims to be
>>223308050I agree. Polytheism is far best than any sort of monotheist nonsenseI allows for a proper connection with the divine
None, religion is at best a cope and is frequently just an excuse to feel superior to people.
>>223297130It's funny because none of these religions have ever explained why god(or gods) don't make themselves apparent
>>223297557>Why if revelation is true did God choose to reveal himself only to middle eastern peopleJulian the Apostate used the same argument
>>223297697Druzes don't believe in that either?I'm told the founder of your religion was a ismaili caliph
>>223298802>How can you create something without consciousness?Mechanic phenomenaA meteor hits the earth and creates a crater. It doesn't need any conscience to do it
>>223297557>the most damning thingCouldn't it be reasonably explained away with conjecture? If there is a divine creator living outside of and authoring our timeline, maybe he waited for a world-spanning empire to influence? >why did earlier humans not have access to it?I think Christians think that non-Christians do find themselves sometimes motivated by the Holy Spirit, but I could be mistaken >i dont think a super intelligence needs us to worship him.It's the reverse They'll say we need to worship a superintelligence
>>223299045>well i think there was something in the old testament where they say that no future prophet would contradict jewish law, they would preserve the customs of the jewish people and one of the christian prophets bypassed thisPaul did. But Christ never opposed Moses's law
>>223297782Buddhism is 100% a religion and only pseuds say otherwise.
>>223300880So many wrong things with this imageDagon was likely not a fish god at al
>>223301820Matthew made shit upPaul never met Jesus
>>223310978We can beget consciousness easily by simply starting a family, or even working as a farmer and calving cows Now, creating consciousness on the other hand, even if you had material tools mimicking cosmic power like metric space travel or atomic-level destruction, the method is yet hidden to us and seems to involve boiling pools of sulfur deep beneath prehistoric oceans and then a course of billions of years of earthly time. So I think a Christian would agree, that the mechanism used to create consciousness is physical, and in time and space. But to use their analogy, maybe you're studying a page by carbon dating the paper and chemical composition of the ink and trying to decode its markings by physical measurement of height and width and margins? If it was read aloud to you, especially by its creator, you might recognize it as a poem if you'll indulge him and suspend disbelief.
>>223311006Christ didn't oppose any law, if I recall Pilate correctly.
>>223302284The romans barely bothered with christians back then. For them it was just another crazy jewish sect.If anything it was the jews that put Paul to distort Christianity
>>223296472i like confucianism desu
>>223296472None because I haven’t seen no damn deity.
>>223303044Muslims were also persecuted tho.They just managed to btfo their enemies
>>223311144>...number of words; it is not necessary to force ourselves to imitate the length of grandma's foot-binding cloths.
>>223305509Muslims tend to believe the Qoran was uncreated.I suppose the same logic applies to other, older books too
>>223310667If you look deeply that's how all religions work
>>223310520>But eastern religion was far more studious and robust than our pagan times, which never inspired any scholarship better than the heroic poetry sagas.Dude. Plato was a hellenic pagan.Interesting tho that he ended up recognised the epic sagas as bullshit, unlike some indian philosphers that thought it still had valye
>>223311141Yes Jews, crafty and perfidious, contrived to contribute to a made up and irrelevant heresy of their own ideology whose founder was killed by Rome with such conviction that they would be persecuted and executed as double agents, but would inspire a world-spanning religion that maintained refutation and conversion of Jews constantly which proceeds from schemes of...Jews themselves.
>>223298426>Shishiothe fuck is that?
>>223311230I don't think Plato and Aristotle claimed ancient paganism the same way that Brahminists of their own time claimed their own. Pagan is a really broad word.>Interesting tho that he ended up recognised the epic sagas as bullshit,Are you quoting something?
>>223311170maybe it sounds better in chinesehe was saying it's better to keep things brief. there are many people who use a lot of words only to end up saying little. adrien brody's oscar acceptance speech comes to mind. that shit pisses me off
>>223311184Muslims believe that the Quran was uncreated but the bible Torah etc (the true original version anyway according to muslims) contains aspects of the Quran. Therefore, if the bible that can be found today contradicts the Quran, it's been changed/corrupted.
>>223296472>Which religion is the most logically sound in your country?Love :)
