why do yuros and other nonamericans have such a problem with us using credit cards all the time? they're convenient and my bank gives me money when I use it, why in the world would I not use it whenever I can?
>>223431729Most Euros use credit cards and payment apps albeit, some of them are even more cashless than the US
>>223431770credit cards are not the same as debit cards
>>223431729Cashback incentives are really nice, so are chargeback insurances. However, it is the reality that roughtly 60% of card holders do not pay their balances in full every month, thus end up paying revolving interest.
>>223431787The Canadian anon is correct, I almost never use debit card. I use payment apps 99% of the time that charge my credit card, and in the few instances I actually pay with a physical card I use my Mastercard or American Express.
It's not that Northern Europeans are misers or shady people who have a lot of cash in B. It's that the degree of dependence on credit that is so prevalent across American society does not exist in their countries. Americans being such frequent users of airline travel (what eventually paved the way for AmEx) is also a big difference that until not so long ago was rare in Northern Europe (except for people who worked at sales at some multinational company).
>>223431729>they're convenienthow is putting yourself on a payment schedule convenient? if you only use cash then you only pay when you need things, you don't have to set reminders. credit is something that was only designed for people with verifiable wealth to make massive logistical nightmare purchases.
>>223431791>60% of card holders do not pay their balances in full every month, thus end up paying revolving interest.reminder to everyone to thank your local goyslave for financing your bank by being a perpetual debtslave so we can all enjoy our benefits such as cashback and points
>>223431861Set credit limit to lower than your monthly wage, and autopay credit card bills in full.
>>223431861every banking app has autopay plus it takes like 5 seconds to log onto your account and pay it anyway. I like to pay in advance because it's better for your score but autopay just removes all anxiety about missing it
>>223431948Few people outside North America might know what a FICO score is...
Is credit card vs. debit card an important distinction to Americans, or is credit card just the default term whether you can borrow money or not? We just say "(bank)kort", (bank) card. Credit cards are rare compared to debit cards.
>>223431975We don't have FICO but we do have credit score.
>>223432016They usually mean credit cards. Debit cards never took off in the US because they were quite late adopters of electronic card payment terminals, and now most americans just use phones with mobile pay apps that rely on near-field communication.
>>223432076Do they borrow money constantly because their accounts run out, or is there some other deal with credit cards? I'm a finance noob.
>>223431948it makes personal finance more complicated than it should be, we shouldn't have to replace our debit card with a good boy points accumulator just so we can afford a house and a new car. we should be able to pay for those things without loans.
>>223432151If you take a loan for a house, is that using credit on your credit card? In that case I get it.
>>223431729The real unmade reasons is that the nanny state made it illegal for banks to exploit dumb people and they capped the maximum interest rates a bank can charge you on your overdue credit.Because cash back incentives, fuel station discounts and every possible "benefit" of owning a credit card is funded by dumb people racking up credit and not paying it on time this severely reduced European bank's ability to offer decent benefits for credit card users.The only reason to own a credit card in Europe is if you travel abroad, because you have those better chances at disputing an illicit charge and some insurance bonuses.>>223432076The fuck you're talking about. Debit cards are just a flavour of credit cards. Every debit card in European circulation has been issued by an american company. Debit cards never took off because by the time someone came up with the idea of not spending the bank's money the penetration rate in the US was like 25% of the population.
There is just nothing in the consumer spending range i’d need a credit card for. Things that are under like 3-4k euro equivalent, i either save up for or postpone, or they’re so cheap i always have the money.The only time i’ve needed to borrow money was for a house or a car, but that is something you file with your bank directly, not swipe a card for.
Makes me lol that europeans are so terrified of a waiter taking your card away. Wtf do I give a shit if they steal the info, it's not my money. Barely my problem.
>>223431729I don’t. I use Apple Pay all the time
>>223431729i don't have a problem with you using credit cards, but others have a problem with me not wanting to use them
>>223432443I'd use a credit card to buy a $1.00 bag of chips. I genuinely don't use cash at all.
>>223432477Why would a waiter need to take your card away I don't understand?Does it happen regularly in the US?
>>223432440>The fuck you're talking about. Debit cards are just a flavour of credit cards.Debit is literally the opposite of credit you fucking ESL retard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debits_and_credits
>>223432549You buy chips on credit?
>>223432477>Makes me lol that europeans are so terrified of a waiter taking your card away.Because that's how you get scammed.
>>223432578Are you retarded?You literally made the claim that>Debit cards never took off in the US because they were quite late adopters of electronic card payment terminalsAs if the technical implementation of a credit card and a debit card differed in any way other then the additional query to the issuing bank to check account balance and that was the reason why Americans use credit cards and not debit cards lmao.
>>223432664>As if the technical implementation of a credit card and a debit card differed in any way other then the additional query to the issuing bank to check account balance and that was the reason why Americans use credit cards and not debit cards lmao.Are you genuinely retarded? You know that debit cards directly withdraw from your bank account, while paying with a credit cards means that a whole different company is actually paying for you and you need to pay them back. That's why you have literal credit card companies, like Mastercard and American Express.Debit cards work entirely different, which is why you couldn't pay with debit cards in the US in the 90s and early 00s. Under the hood they even rely on different technical protocols for authentication and verification. They are only superficially similar for you as the user because you stick in your card and enter a PIN (or use NFC these days). This is also why Americans never implemented chip based authentication in the 2010s; there was no need for this since they all used credit cards and not debit cards that require authentication.That being said, many modern debit cards today have a fall back to a credit based option if the authentication protocol times out. But they didn't in the beginning.
>>223432554Probably 80% of restaurants they take your card to the desk while you sit at the table. Pay kiosks at the table are not common at all and only large chains do that.They bring the check in a little book or tray and then leave. You put your card in the book but visible or on the tray and set it by the edge of the table. They then come by again in a few minutes to take it away and pay with it. Then they bring it back and you write the tip amount on the merchant copy of the receipt and leave.>>223432658Never heard of that happening to anyone I know. I get a card use notification before the waiter even gets back to my table.
Also i don’t get the whole ”You don’t have to take out credit just use it as a debit card bro” argument, because if you’re not shopping beyond your means, and use a credit card, you get the same effect as a debit card and you pay a yearly fee for nothing? Actual cattle mentality???
>>223433011>Never heard of that happening to anyone I know.Happened more often before when all you needed was the magnetic stripe thing. Still happens now with the NFC chip though, but as you said I also get a card use notification so I think it's becoming less common. Also, it was more common in Latin-American countries and Eastern Europe before, but haven't had that happen to me in over 10 years.
>>223431729I use a debit card, VISA mastercard
>>223433095Using credit cards usually means getting cash back benefits and bonus points and also has the insurance of being able to do chargeback when you don't receive what you pay for. The yearly fee is not very expensive (and, at least here, you actuall pay fees for your debit card as well, at least if you have more than one account). Credit card fees are usually not that high; credit card companies make money from people not paying back their balance in full and thus needing to pay interest. The credit card companies literally lose money on customers that pay their bills on time and in full.
>>223433096In the US you have 0% fraud liability. You can just say a charge wasn't you and they will refund it and send you a new numbered card for your same account. I have never had my card info stolen and I have given it to waiters a million times. It's not a big deal here, paying at the table would be considered a little trashy.
>>223431787I had a debit but I get free shit from a credit card card and I don't pay a dime for it, worse than that the debit after two years began giving me a monthly fee kek
>>223431729>why do yuros and other nonamericans have such a problem with us using credit cards all the time?most cards about pre 2018-2020 weren't full visa/mastercards let alone credit cards here, i actually don't know what the actualy difference between vpay/visa and maestro/mastercard was apart from them being just debit. also germans like cash because it allows you to not pay taxes
>>223432872Visa and Mastercards are networks not issuers. They do not issue credit. Issuing bank does.>You know that debit cards directly withdraw from your bank account, while paying with a credit cards means that a whole different company is actually paying for you and you need to pay them back.Yeah it appears to you that way as the end-user of a card but behind the curtains both credit and debit cards are processed virtually the same. The big distinction is that during credit card payment card issuer queries for credit limits and with debit cards an issuer queries the bank for account balance on top of spending limits. In both cases it's the issuing bank who foots the bill and then does the clearing between the issuer and acquirer.The only time VISA and Mastercard foot the bill for your payment is when your transaction is processed in STIP, which happens outages of issuing processors or issuing banks.t. work in the payment processing industry.>Debit cards work entirely different, which is why you couldn't pay with debit cards in the US in the 90s and early 00s. Under the hood they even rely on different technical protocols for authentication and verification. They are only superficially similar for you as the user because you stick in your card and enter a PIN (or use NFC these days).What a load of horseshit. The only distinction between a credit card and a debit card is their BIN. The logic distinguishing the two happens entirely between issuing bank and issuing processor.
>>223431729BARCODES ARE MARK OF THE BEAST! Read your Bibles.
>>223432599I buy everything on credit and they pay it in full every month. I only use my debit card to take some cash out of an ATM like once a year at most.
>>223432872>>223433283cont.>This is also why Americans never implemented chip based authentication in the 2010s; there was no need for this since they all used credit cards and not debit cards that require authentication.Americans didn't implement chip based auth earlier for the same reason that their homes are stuck on 110V grid and their internet speeds are one of the slowest in the developed world - they were the early adopters of the technology so market penetration of an already existing solution made it expensive to upgrade to a newer potentially better standards.>That being said, many modern debit cards today have a fall back to a credit based option if the authentication protocol times out. But they didn't in the beginning.STIP has been a thing for the last 45+ years.t. payment processing pro (both issuing and acquiring)
>>223433192If you use a debit card, you're 100% liable yourself. I think that's why so it's just a reflex instinct for many Europeans visiting the US to freak a little out when the waiter just walks away with your card and then comes back. I'm not sure about how easy it is with fraudulent charges on credit cards these days with the notificaiton possibility, I think they might have tried to make it more your responsibility actually. For online purchases you need some form of proof that you didn't receive the goods you paid for and the company can actually dispute your claim. Normally it works out for you, but it's just a hassle some times.>t's not a big deal here, paying at the table would be considered a little trashy.Yeah, in the really classy restaurants here they do the folder thing where you in the old days would put cash and now put your credit card. But that's an exception here.
>>223433315>I buy everything on credit and they pay it in fullit's basically a loan though
>>223432126I get 3-5% back on everything i buy with my credit card and just pay it off each month, i can enjoy these perks because I'm not retarded like other people who pay interest.
>>223433011Anon payment terminals are the size of a phone. If a Waiter can carry a notebook with herself she is definitely strong enough to bring a terminal to you.
>>223433222>also germans like cash because it allows you to not pay taxesOnly browns do that. Goymans are too docile and cattle like to avoid taxes, Germans only like cash because our average age is like 60.
Self-restraint. Plastic money is addictive. Having the cost of whatever you buy deducted immediately instead of one big sum at the end of the month helps you not overspend.IMO the only real reasons to use credit card over debit are:1) many countries (especially in road tolls & hotels) don't accept debit cards anymore. They're kinda going obsolete2)sometimes you'll get cashback introductory offers, basically a x% discount on everything you buy with credit cards3) if you actually need credit because your bank account is emptyAny other reason I missed?
>>223433429>Only browns do that.when was the last time you saw a self-employed brown tradie?
>>223433463debit can't run out of money, credit cards can run out, it will have to be paid back of course
>>223433429its because they can't track you when you use cash
>>223433463>Having the cost of whatever you buy deducted immediately instead of one big sum at the end of the month helps you not overspend.You could also just cap the credit limit at something that you know is manageable, which has the same effect.>Any other reason I missed?Fraud insurance/chargeback.
The US is confusing because everyone is either super rich or living paycheck to paycheck or maybe both somehow, but I was never into economics and probably missing stuff. If you'd need to take constant loans here, it'd be viewed as a sign of poverty.
>>223433553How common is "kontokredit med säkerhet i bostaden" in Sweden? It's fairly common for boomers here (we call it "rammelån"), which means that they in practice continue to take out small loans all the time.
>>223433595Doesn't ring a bell at least. People get bank loans for buying a house and sometimes a car or the like.
>>223433534>Fraud insurance/chargeback.True. Credit cards have far more protection.
>>223433649>>223433553Also, isn't Klarna swedish?
>>223433707Yeah, but Klarna is viewed as a sign of spending beyond your means. Might end up on Lyxfällan (show where people who put themselves into massive debt get financial assistance).
>>223433784Lyxfällan is pretty kino though. Also the Norwegian version of it is funny.
>>223432549You will have to that 1.00$ + interest. Why? Just why?
>>223433986"What's interest?"
>>223432151you sound like the type of person who goes to a bad neighborhood and says "humans shouldn't commit crimes" then proceeds to get muggedthe complication it adds is basically nothing and I don't care about a hypothetical ideal society none of us will ever live in, I get 5% back when I buy gas and I'm going to take advantage of that because I like saving money>>223432214a higher credit score means you pay lower interest rates and have a higher likelihood of being accepted for loans, you don't pay your mortgage with a credit card but paying for it does affect your credit score
>>223434142Then I see how it's connected. What would lower your credit score with a credit card? Being slow to pay back loans?
>>223431791>Cashback incentivesBasically useless here unless it's for travel. My grocery store membership gives me way more cashback than credit cards do.
>>223434142Mortgages being so tied to credit scores is mostly an American thing I believe, or at least, it isn't that common in Scandinavia where total debt and your monthly salary influence your borrowing and debt-payment capacity more than just the credit score. The reason for this is that we have national registers for how much debt a person has, and even when you apply for a credit card the banks will check these + your income before granting you a credit limit.
>>223434217>Basically useless here unless it's for travel.Really? Here you get cash back which you can use for everything from groceries to buying stuff online.>My grocery store membership gives me way more cashback than credit cards do.Here you can tie both things to the same card so you get both. I get Trumf points when using my Mastercard.
>>223431729Well here in Swedistan for example debt is not a good thing. Lets say for example I want to get a mortgage. 1. They look at my income. 2. They look at my monthly expenses. 3. They look at my current loans, credit and debt. Having a credit card is included in the 3rd point, it can actually seriously damage your chances of getting a good loan/mortgage. Buying things on credit also counts as general debt which also further damages your chances. The Swedish credit system operates fundamentally differently than systems in countries like the United States or the United Kingdom. You do not need to actively "build" credit by spending money on a credit card to get a good score. Instead, Swedish credit reporting is a measure of risk based on stability and amount of loan & debt you have. The more you have, the worse it is. Even if you just use your credit card with direct payment, the fact that you have a access to the credit option on the card (unlike a debit card) counts as possible debt and will be accounted for.
>>223434209>Being slow to pay back loans?pretty much, it's a big hit if you fail to pay by the deadline, how much credit you use affects it too but not as much.
>>223434268Funnily enough, the card with the best cashback in Sweden is Bank Norwegian with 0.5%.
>>223434364Alright, that makes sense. Guess the equivalent here would be betalningsanmärkning ("record of non-payment" according to the internet), though it's probably much more severe and you probably have it too, when enforcement authorities get involved and you don't pay them in time. Makes it really difficult to get decent loans and rental contracts and stuff.
I have only owned debit cards and been a poorfag
>>223431729The glorious EU put a cap on the fees. Credit cards can take 0.3% at maximum. Meanwhile American credit card companies have the card fee sit upwards of 5% and due to the Honour All clause you either say nope to Master Card and Visa and Amex or you accept that 5% card fee plus the bank fee and the fee your processor takes. Like essentially in Sweden/EU there is almost no fees to take from the shop = credit card company doesn't make any money. And when fees sit close to 0% its hard to make rewards work so they are absolute dogshit compared to in the USA.
>>223434558Is that on everything? I get varying rates depending on where I buy, up to 10%
>>223431729in europe you don't get significant cashback or bonunes from using a credit card because transaction fees are capped, this is why barely anyone uses themin the us it makes no sense to avoid using them as long as you are not retarded and pay your balance every monththe fees are so high and vendors will increase prices to cover them, it's the only way to not get screwed because at least you get something backthe problem is americans are retarded and they don't pay their balance so they end up in massive debt
>>223434777My Amex has no fees
>>223434822That's everything yes.
>>223434854it's because you are a jew
>>223433374a 0% loan
>>223434897
>>223434071There is no interest if you pay the balance every month
i dontbut you are weird and if you push your jewish tricks here i will
>>223431729why the fuck would your bank """give""" you money when you use it? that money have to come from somewhere and its from added cost and risk of using credit card. the money they """give""" back is just a fraction of what they make on you. a debit card is basicly electronic cash, there is nothing added to it, no risk, no debt, no interest, your transaction is done right there and then, no one is making money on it.fuck credit cards its the devils work.when i buy a car or a coke on my card that deal is settled right there and then, i dont have to pull my hair out paying that credit card at the end of the month. i cant always tell how much money i have at the end of each month since im freelance so im not buying anything on credit, if i cant afford it right there and then im not buying it.i do however have business credit at all my major dealers but thats a totally different thing and a key element of running a business. im supposed to install the thing and get paid by the customer before i have to pay the dealership for the thing.having massive credit is one of the biggest redflags when taking on housing loan here.
>>223436133oh, so that is the diference. you can not not pay interest with a credit card in europeonly a meme credit card tied to store chain, you can purchase someting in 4 months without interestsNever with a credit card issued by a bank
>>223436133>if.....ifdid i say if? if if? what if the ifs if the if?20% interest if you dont pay the if. you have to be dumb as an american to risk that on a daily basis.>dude just pay it of monthly?so the same as using debit then, only its paid off right there and then with no extra effor and ifs from your part.
>>223436572I treat it the same as using debit but I get a ton more security features and rewards points. I have never paid a cent of interest in 10 years.
>>223436907yeah, but one day you will and then i can laugh at you and no you dont get a single more security feature than me. name one?
>>223437463The best one is I dont give a shit if my card info were to ever get stolen in online retail or a gas pump. That's the bank's money, not my problem. They have no access to my bank account through a credit card.
>>223436907>>223437722Do American debit cards lack security? Mine's insured, connected to a spending account instead of my main account, all purchases require a 4 digit pin and I have full control over it on my banking app that notifies me of every purchase. I have a set spending limit of 2000 kr (like 200-ish usd) and need to clear it via the app if I want to spend more. That's just standard crap here. I got "scammed" once (a temporary summer café charged me like 40 bucks for a coffee..) but a quick call to my bank and the money was back on my account the next day.
