"Guttural languages" are supposedly ugly sounding, yet Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languages despite being packed with guttural and sibilant sounds. So what gives? Listening to Portuguese is basically just guttural sounds followed by a whole lot of zshshzdjdjg
Didn‘t read all that brazillian jazz, but does anyone else think portugese sounds a bit like russian?
Portuguese from Portugal sounds serious, but Portuguese from Brazil sounds like how monkeys in our cartoons speak.
>>224040036No. You're actually the first person of all time to think that. Congrats anon, you're a genius!
>>224040055>Portuguese from Brazil sounds like monkeysJust like Spanish from Mexico
>>224040063Nigga how was I supposed to know, I don‘t really hear people sharing their thoughts on the portugese language that often.
>>224040036It totally does
>>224040036It does extremely so.
>Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languages
>>224040091Big coming from a retard who sharts at Walmart and films his mother doing BBC gangbangs for her onlyfans
>>224040236Paco is PISSED
>>224040221That's true tho
>>224040055Well, your experience with br Portuguese really depends on the dialect you're listening to. You can go from dialects that sound almost Spanish with that staccato rhythm to dialects where people practically swallow half the word. But yeah, most dialects are pretty bouncy, which keeps the language from sounding harsh or too serious. It'd probably sound harsh if you tried to make it sound "serious" anyway
>>224041013only ever heard the opposite
>>224039996If you can't roll your words while also going guttural on words, then...
>>224040055Portuguese Portuguese sounds like russianBrazilian Portuguese sounds like Spanish if it wasn't phonetically for retards
>>224041274Ask normal people instead of mentally ill contrarians>Brazilian Portuguese is widely considered a beautiful language by many foreigners, who frequently describe its sound as melodic, musical, and smooth.On eu-pt>However, some non-speakers find the sound slavic, Russian-like, or even ugly, particularly if they are unfamiliar with the phonetics or have only heard the European variant.LMAO
>>224041501No, it does not.
>>224040036always thought it sounded kinda polish
>>224039996I think most Brazilian Portuguese dialects don't have the guttural consonant. I don't know about European Portuguese
>>224041889?? Just say charrete, you can literally feel it in your throat
>>224042608[ʃa'ɦɛti]
>>224042608Shahechi ou algo assim
>>224042714That's not the only possible pronunciation though and you’re using your throat to produce that R sound anyway, I don’t know how you didn’t notice. As far as I know, charrete has two possible R pronunciations in Portuguese, the throat R and the trilled R. I don’t know anyone who uses the trilled R. Other R variants such as the retroflex R basically don’t occur in rr or word initial position
>>224039996>>224040055I thing Portuguese from Brazil sounds good, and like a normal Romance language, while Portuguese from Portugal sounds ugly, because they don't have an S sound, all their S sound like SH, and the syllables are slurred so vowels often barely get pronounced.This is a good Brazilian song I discovered in an amateur porn video in which the motel had the radio onhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K46gXaUw4dk&list=RDK46gXaUw4dk&start_radio=1
>>224039996>Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languages
>>224042876>all their S sound like SHThe pronunciation of s as sh isn’t exclusive to euro PT tho, it's also widespread in several coastal varieties of southern and southeastern br PT as well as in some northern varieties. It carry a degree of social prestige and many well known MPB singers use it. Br Portuguese can sometimes sound even more sh heavy because d and t before i and unstressed e are commonly realized as dj and tshhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=NZWFRu8wRdc
>>224043286Portuguese sounds VERY beautiful, chudhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=vJRHkJ7ByIk
spanish is way better this meme has to stop
>>224043861It's really just a matter of perspective. Some people think Vietnamese and Chinese sound nice, after all. People probably think Spanish sounds good mostly because they’re so exposed to it, whereas we might find it a little funny or harsh sometimes. Believe it or not, we’re not actually that used to hearing Spanish
>>224039996portuguese isn't guttural at all, not anymore than your average european language, less than german or dutchyou want a guttural language, check out arabic
>>224041808For me, your language is just whatever. It's a chill language with no unpleasant or weird sounds. Wouldn't say it's beautiful, but not at all ugly. It's a bit quirky with the long "eeh" and "zhehhh" sounds, but not as quirky as maybe Swedish.
>>224044126Nobody likes the sound of Chinese or Vietnamese
>>224040055TRVKE
>>224042876>because they don't have an S sound, all their S sound like SHStop falling for internet memes
>>224039996>yet Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languagesBy whom? Everyone say it sounds retarded
>>224048247Who's everyone?
>>224048258Me
>>224048247By me. Easily in the top 10 most pleasant languages to listen to
>>224042829Is the h in house guttural? That's what our throat R sounds like in most dialects
>>224044201trvke
>>224050820It is a glottal realization and one of several possible realizations of the br bt r, and you still make that sound with your throat. Word initial r and rr may be realized as h, ɦ, x, χ, ʁ, among other variants. A single speaker may use different realizations in different words since these variants are not contrastive in Portuguese
>>224039996>Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languagesIs this what people tell themselves on the Brazilian side of the internet?
>>224039996the only nice sounding languages are English, French and Italian. all else are essentially nigger languages
>>224039996>Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languageskek, it's one of the worst and everyone agrees on that. It is spoken by exactly 0 straight men, it's the faggiest language out there.
>>224053882>tfFrench just sounds bad, it's a very guttural language, which makes it sound really aggressive especially compared to languages with more sibilant sounds like ours. I feel like people who think French sounds beautiful usually haven’t heard much of it outside of music, and with music even Chinese can sound good. Furthermore, your u is literally the same as the Turkish u
>>224052878>ItalianItalian sounds just like Spanish. English speakers really have zero ear for languages
>>224039996>Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languagesNo, it's not.
>>224054876
>>224058248did you make that in MS paint?
>>224039996>yet Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languagesIs it? Sounds like shit imo.
Almost all Europeans ITT are biased because their only exposure to Portuguese is the distorted version they speak in Portugal that doesn't even sound like a Romance language anymore
>>224058248>norwegian>hungarian>thaiwhat the...
>>224052710I would only consider the <χ> and <ʁ> realizations to fit the guttural label and they are pretty rare in our country
>>224052878English can't sound nice with [ə] and [ɹ̠] as common sounds. You guys should remove that from your language, it sounds like someone having a stroke
>>224039996i wish girls like these weren't whores...
>>224059282Nah, I watched City of God just a couple months ago.
>>224059282They speak Portuguese pretty much the way it’s naturally supposed to sound, it's our dialects that developed their own distinct rhythms. Compare São Paulo Portuguese with the speech of people from coastal Santa Catarina of Azorean descent. Our varieties were shaped by much heavier contact with natives, africans, and speakers of other Romance languages. Only an insufferable idiot in Brazil thinks spoken Portuguese is supposed to mirror its written form or sound like Spanish
>>224039996>yet Portuguese is widely considered one of the most pleasant sounding languagesBy who???
>>224059599I wish girls like these were bigger whores...
>>224059739Total nonsense. >Only an insufferable idiot in Brazil thinks spoken Portuguese is supposed to mirror its written form I didn't say thatMost Brazilians had zero contact with speakers of other romance languages. The most extreme case to analyse is the Northeast, far from the borders and from immigrants. Also, natives and africans were far too diverse to end up making the same sound changes everywhere in the country that magically made our version of the language sound more romance-like than Portugal's. Conclusion: your theory is dumb and it's obvious that Portugal was the one that diverged phonologically
>>224060166Northeastern and southern Brazilian dialects are fundamentally different, and both were heavily shaped by foreign influences. The way people from Bahia speak sound completely alien to everyone else. It’s not rocket science, listen to how people of Italian descent in the southern highlands speak Portuguese with their very clear vowels and you’ll understand the point. People didn’t just randomly decide to start speaking differently. Brazil simply didn’t have enough time to become as uniformly Lusitanian as some other Portuguese territories
miss my ex, she was from madeira. when i was there eating milho cozido with her family she was always lovingly looking my way to make sure i was understanding what they were saying when they spoke too fast so i didnt feel left out. i truly loved her. now all that is left is dying alone
>>224060549We speak differently but we all collectively sound more like the Romance baseline than the modern day Portuguese, that's my point. Most Brazilians don't speak an immigrant influenced dialect with the only exception of the middle and upper classes in the city of São Paulo and people in the south. You are implying that somehow all the Portuguese speakers here who have been speaking it for 500 years in an enormous country received just the right influences of various unrelated indigenous and african languages plus random immigrants to somehow all collectively sound more like the other Romance languages than people from a tiny politically centralized country that could much easily have gone through this radical change. A gaúcho sounds much more like a baiano than a Portuguese or an Italian, by the way. This is because the Portuguese spoken in different Brazilian regions didn't really diverge that much from the original baseline phonologically
Inb4'ing I'm just going to post this map for when you reply talking about how African influence in """the northeast""" (actually, just in a part of Bahia) was as strong as italian influence in the south and bla bla bla. We all know the drill. Brazilians are mostly descended from Portuguese settlers and our diversity is massively overplayed for various different narratives
>>224059797they're literally trying their bests
>>224060757Go speak Spanish then if you’re that desperate to sound like you’re speaking a Romance language. Who even decided what a Romance language is supposed to sound like anyway? And seriously, where the fuck do you think sounds like the retroflex R came from? It doesn’t exist anywhere in Portugal, but it’s a thing in Brazilian Portuguese and Paraguayan Spanish. I literally talk like this, it's obviously not a Portuguese thingYou're just being dumb. You're mentally ill
Official Romance language ranking:1) Italian2) French3) Spain Spanish4) Portugal Portuguese5) Romanian6) Brazilian Portuguese7) LatAm Spanish (Dominican is by far the worst of these)
>>224061105Changes can't happen on their own? Do they must come from other languages? Did English and Mandarin speakers get their retroflex R from the guarani indians too? You know there's zero evidence for the origin of the capira R being from a tupian language, right? I'm from the northeast and some old rural people independently developed that. It's just a lazy way to not roll Rs when rolled Rs were common in Brazilian Portuguese
>>224041013>>224041808people farming views on youtube by making bold statements about language aren't real people bro.
>>224061222These changes are clearly driven by foreign influences, though. The fact that both southern and some northeastern dialects are utterly syllabic doesn't by itself point to Italian or Spanish influence. Where did I say that? There are numerous other languages that could have contributed to these developments. We also have precedents for dialects resembling European Portuguese, like coastal SC varieties, and the communities in question are largely of Azorean descent and have been established in the region for centuries
>>224039996Aesthetic judgements about languages are almost always proxies for judgements about the people who speak them.>>224045623Chinese has some absolutely beautiful poetry.
>>224058248I hate jeetgpt
>>224061456Azorean immigration is more recent than the bulk of continental Portuguese settlement in Brazil. By then they must have been going through changes already. To this day the Azorean dialects are the most innovative in the entire language, so it's no surprise they were already speaking kinda like modern tugas in the late 18th and 19th centuries.>There are numerous other languages that could have contributed to these developments. You are arguing that multiple unrelated languages across all of Brazil all contributed to our Portuguese phonetics becoming more similar to other Romance languages, rather than tiny Portugal going through more radical innovative changes on its own that distanced themselves from Brazil and the rest of the Romance dialect continuum, which also affected Africa because they were ruled by Portugal until the 60s and speak Portuguese as a second language. What I'm defending makes much more sense, whereas your hypothesis fails at the Occam's razor test.>are utterly syllabicAlso I just want to say that Brazilian Portuguese is not really that syllabic-timed outside of Paulistano, Soteropolitano and some southern dialects, which coincide with the historical non-Portuguese hotspots in the country that you are trying hard to generalize as our national trend but are actually exceptions
>>224061554Not really, most people agree that Khmer sounds much better than the languages of their fellow Asians around them and that's just because it's not tonal. I don't think there's a huge Cambodia simpathy worldwide compared to Thailand and Vietnam. Japanese and Polynesian languages sound cute because of their simple syllables with that formula of an ordinary consonant followed by a basic vowel sound. Meanwhile, languages with rare phonemes are typically seen as ugly or at least strange. There's a predictable intrisicaly linguistic aspect to all of this that goes beyond how much you like the people speaking. Most people like to hear what is clear to listen and what's usual
>>224061909You're retarded, aren't you? Dialects can absolutely converge. People with German, Slavic, Italian, or whatever ancestry can retain distinct vowel sounds, slower speech rhythms and even features like the Spanish like R long after those traits disappeared around them. You're also ignoring the massive north south dialect divide. Paulistano isn't generally as syllabic as baiano, except in areas with strong Italian influence. And the Azoreans have been here for three centuries, while we've had huge waves of Italians and other immigrants just a century ago
>>224062267So why do so many people think French (bunch of fucky consonant clusters and weird vowels, guttural R) sounds sexy but think e.g. Tamil (mostly fairly ordinary sounds, very little consonant clusters) sounds ugly?
>>224062367Telugu is the best sounding Dravidian language. Tamil sounds ridiculous.
>>224040055wtf I LOVE mexico now
