>>224308601
We and every other country in the world

Kurdistan
Donetsk People's Republic

>>224308601
Argentina y Reino Unido

finland and sweden

simple as

ukraine and russia

>>224308601
>some actually believe Itachi was planned as a good person from the start

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>>224308601
>one used and destroyed the other, other earnestly tried to kill it in return as part of a fierce personal vendetta
>other one says jk love you bro and get along now
Probably us and Japan or us and Vietnam honestly

>>224308641
In the flashback sequences before Naruto vs Sasuke v1 its made pretty clear that Itachi did love Sasuke but was blinded by hatred towards the structure of the clan for some unknown political reasons which wasnt fully revealed until after they fought later in Shippuden.

His entire speech after attacking the Uchiha police force was
>The clan, the clan... You overestimate your own abilities, with no idea of the depth of my own."
>Obsessed with the organization, obsessed with the clan, obsessed with our lineage... A worthless compulsion that enslaves us all."
>You focus on the trivial and lose sight of what's most important. Change is impossible in this fog of ignorance."

Kishimoto did kind of freeball a lot of the plot but it was pretty clear that Itachi's motivations were more complicated than "i just want to be powerful lmao"

>>224309208
>torturing your brother was an act of love for the brother he loves so much
>torturing hakashi was an act of love for the village he loves so much
>killing your mother is le good

>>224308601
Belgium
Zaire

>>224309245
>>torturing your brother was an act of love for the brother he loves so
Yes because hatred and strong feelings are what gets you a 3 tomoe sharingan and eventually mangekyo and he needed Sasuke to be strong enough to kill him and stand a chance against not! Madara
>torturing kakashi was an act of love for the village he loves so much
Yes because he couldve killed him the second Kakashi went under the Tsukuyomi , and even Kakashi wondered why he didnt just kill him. He also made an appearance in the village to let the Akatsuki's motives be known and to remind Danzo that he was still alive and Sasuke was still off limits.
>killing your mother is le good
Itachi had to kill the entire clan under orders from Danzo and since tbey were resolved to go forward with the coup, but he was unironically manipulated by Danzo as well to kill his clan due to the intense pressure he was under acting as a double agent for the Uchiha and Leaf Village

Itachi was manipulated and blinded by hatred and too impatient to keep attempting diplomacy to get the clan to not try to pull off the coup, and he even admits his mistake when he is reanimated since he realized he could've used his leverage with Sasuke and his father to back down but couldn't see it at the time.

>>224309369
what a cope
come on, you know its a random le cool plot twist ass pull

>>224309369
>believing ahh pulls excuses for a plot
dude I love Naruto but everything after Pain is shit
it's clear pain was the big deal at first.
also explain something to me, why did Sasuke began as a hero liberator after being freed from orochimaru?
>he needed comrades
the answer is right there in the story. The mangaka/editor wanted him a hero ending with him offing itachi and going back to the village.
Everything that changed after that is ahh pull.

>>224309623
Or maybe you just didnt pay attention to the plot? Retconning Gaara's parents to actually be super nice but mistaken parents was an actual asspull, Itachi being a double agent and the Uchiha being involved in some political scheme before they were all killed had really obvious foreshadowing we were shown in the original series

>>224309245
autism and dislexia

>>224308601
America saying that to israel

>>224309694
name the foreshadowing chapter wise

>>224309688
See
>>224309694

I mean even before Pain the story in Shippuden had pacing issues and dumb plot decisions but Itachi being a double agent was not one of them.

>wanted him a hero ending with him offing itachi and going back to the village.
He literally tried to murder Naruto, abandoned his post, then went to work for Orochimaru who was essentially the greatest terrorist the Leaf Village had ever known. Even after killing Orochimaru and Itachi the dude is doing time if ever went back to the leaf village that would also be terrible story telling lmao. Making Itachi was 2 dimensional power hungry villain after we clearly are told Itachi hated the structure of clan because he saw it as backwards after 3 Uchiha police officers demanded to know why he wasnt at the clan assembly and to not use his Anbu connection to squash the investigation and get in their way also obviously implied that the Uchiha had some kind of motives Itachi hated beyond just thinking they were weak

>>224309785
>>224309785
>He literally tried to murder Naruto, abandoned his post, then went to work for Orochimaru who was essentially the greatest terrorist the Leaf Village had ever known.
he had the mark and was being influented by it. The other bitch with the great tits said so and no one really blamed him because at that point he hadn't killed anyone
>went liberating prisoners of orochimaru
>never killed the live dummies orochimaru had to train him because he's "soft"
>after liberation his lackey spread the word that "Sasuke the liberator saved them and told them to tell everyone"
also Naruto didn't die. He didn't almost killed him. He decided not to. Naruto was asleep, he easily could have.

Everything after that is shit though. When toby was introduced that's when the ahh pulls started:
>no no you see. Pain is not the final villain, it's this stronger guy. No no it's not him either it's this old immortal guy. No no it's not him either it's this alien, etc

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>>224309767
Chapter 222 where its clear Itachi was in the anbu , the Uchiha police force had political motives and was meeting in assemblies with the rest of the clan while investigating him, and Itachi outright stated he hated the structure of the clan because he thought it was ignorant?

How is this not foreshadowing for being a double agent and the clan itself getting involved in some cloak and dagger shit behind the scenes? Kishimoto also explicitly said he made the decision for Itachi to have secret motives for the killing of his clan since early in the series

>>224309846
>had the mark and was being influenced by it
He was not brainwashed lmao , the curse mark just responded to his own anger was all that was stated. He was a fucked up kid with PTSD who wanted to murder his brother and was told by his brother that killing his best friend was the only way to get the Mangekyo Sharingan and actually tried to do it
>>went liberating prisoners of orochimaru
Yeah because he was portrayed as a noble rogue ninja because he objectively was? He had a moral code and freed Orochimaru's prisoners because he hated him and saw himself as "an avenger" and so chose to kill Orochimaru as well as Itachi.
>also Naruto didn't die. He didn't almost killed him
He slammed Naruto down on a bunch of rocks so hard he broke Naruto's neck who has to get revived by Kurama, and believed he had killed him in earnest and threw up in disgust. It wasn't until after the fight was over that Sasuke resolved to not kill Naruto because he didnt want to sink to Itachi's level.
>Pain is not the final villain
Dude he literally never was and Naruto as a series didnt orient itself around just 1 villain being the issue like Inuyasha. You could argue that Orochimaru was supposed to be seen as "the main villain" until Pain and the Akastuki were introduced too and he wasnt either. The story was always about Naruto eventually becoming the hokage centering around a hero's journey and coming of age story where he needed to mature into what an actually good leader was. The plot was always more than just good guy vs big bad evil guy , after he killed Pain and resolved himself to try to fight hatred and bring peace to the ninja world he still needed to go actually achieve peace with all the other nations and deal with Kurama. The pain arc was never supposed to be the ending lol

>>224309873
How is that foreshadowing? He just hates the clan. There's no mention of anbu or that he loves the village.

>>224310029
>There's no mention of anbu
In the middle right panel the uchiha police officer clearly says that Itachi started acting weird after joining the Anbu, you know the secret police / special forces agency that it under the direct command of the Hokage? Then they said they were having Shisui spy on him as an active member of that secret police / special forces organization and were previously demanding to know why he missed the "clan meeting" and threatened him not to squash their investigation as another branch of the police.

How does this not foreshadow and portray political infighting between the Uchiha and Leaf Village where Itachi is clearly choosing the Leaf Village over the clan?

>>224310017
>He slammed Naruto down on a bunch of rocks so hard he broke Naruto's neck who has to get revived by Kurama,
anon you thinking of shit that happened after the asspulls
>he literally never was
The dream was Naruto being accepted. After pain he was. After pain even Hinata had showed her feelings. After pain even the title of hokage was offered.
Imagine no asspulls: Naruto saves everyone, dates Hinata, becomes the youngest hokage ever. Sasuke comes back after killing the one who massacred the biggest and most important Village clan, Naruto as the hokage forgives him, they start the new village police together. No Boruto. No aliens. No "you were actually the descendent of a god". A good ending of him and Hinata at his teacher's grave, saying he'll make him proud

>>224310075
yes they made him hate the clan. The one he was so proud of since a child with lies
but there's no foreshadowing of him actually loving the village. Nor his actions being justified.
>but torturing people was necessary!!!! He's so good because he's actually torturing for love
Don't judge a freaking line anon. Judge the actions

>>224310080
>anon you thinking of shit that happened after the asspulls
No this was the 1st Naruto vs Sasuke fight. The only reason Naruto didnt die was because of the Nine Tails reviving him. This was in the original manga
>The dream was Naruto being accepted
*becoming hokage
>Sasuke comes back after killing the one who massacred the biggest and most important Village clan, Naruto as the hokage forgives him, they start the new village police together
Kakashi wouldve become hokage if Tsunade died, Naruto in the process of dealing with pain accepted Jiraya's task of trying to bring peace to the ninja world , and he still had to deal with the tense political nature of the 5 nations and the tailed beast including his own. Naruto is a coming of age story, cutting off when he's 16 just because he beat a bad guy is a terrible plot.

>>224310130
>but there's no foreshadowing of him actually loving the village
He was working with the village over his own clan and at the start of this flashback arc he tells Sasuke that thr Uchiha were a proud clan of people who chose to protect the village above all since they were some of the strongest shinobi, then we get told theyre holding secret meetings and spying on Itachi as a member of the ambulance while making obvious political threats against him

My brother in christ I dont know how to make this more clear

>>224310153
>The dream was Naruto being accepted
>*becoming hokage
The straight to your face dream was that, but remember why he wants to become a hokage? Because everyone rejected him.
Either way. Happened after pain.
>The only reason Naruto didnt die was because of the Nine Tails reviving him.
so? That literally has happened since forever. It's his thing. He didn't die at the bridge arc because of the nine tails. He didn't die at the chunning exams because of the fox. He didn't die with Gaara because of the fox. He never does because of the fox. It's his McGuffin
>but Sasuke tried to kill him. It's unforgivable
so is Gaara then, no? Lol
>the tense political nature of the 5 nations
literally not a thing in the pain arc. And then the mangaka wrote the worst political story in existence

the real question is Itachi a good guy, this is what fueled the ass pull feeling

>>224310179
ok then explain why making Sasuke watch his parents die over and over twice in separate occasions or torturing Kakashi for 1 thousand years was so necessary

>>224310206
>Because everyone rejected him.
Yeah then he stopped being a child and found greater moral purpose than just being emotionally driven to be accepted by those around him after his mentor and godfather died. Naruto is a coming of age and hero's journey type of story it was not just "pain vs naruto"
>so? That literally has happened since forever
Because it proves *Sasuke tried to kill him* ????
>Gaara then, no? Lol
Oh yeah no Sasuke becoming a rogue ninja and trying to murder his own comrade is totally the same thing as Gaara trying to kill Naruto and Sasuke under orders of his nation
>literally not a thing in the pain arc
How thr FUCK did you miss the entire story of the Hidden Rain village being a constant battle ground between the 5 nations creating Pain to begin with lmao

>>224310267
>why making Sasuke watch his parents die over and over twice in separate occasions
Because hatred fuels the sharingan and he was a double agent who wanted Sasuke to kill him for like an entire range of reasons.
>why torture Kakashi
Why didnt he just kill Kakashi if he didnt have hidden motives? Even Kakashi remarks "why didnt he just kill me". Once again its revealed that Itachi was working in the anbu as some kind of double agent if you were paying attention to the plot. We didnt know the Uchiha were going to coup the Hokage out of power due to growing ethnic tensions in the village but we were obviously told some political shit was going on and Itachi felt so strongly about it he killed his entire clan out of hatred towards them

>>224310236
Itachi was not a good guy imo. Despite killing the clan in an attempt to prevent a war, he was impatient and hateful and was manipulated to kill his clan by Danzo who objectively wanted to kill the Uchiha seeing them as responsible for the nine tails incident and fed into Itachi's own misgivings towards the direction of the clan. Itachi even admits during the reanimation arc that he failed and could've used Sasuke as leverage over his father and the rest of the clan for negotiations to dissuade them from attempting a coup. He was just blinded , became hateful, and lost his shit and so followed the orders to kill his clan. He got used

>>224310283
>he stopped being a child and found greater moral purpose than just being emotionally driven to be accepted by those around him
lol
How old are you? Being accepted is part of being human. Even Gaara, the hokage dreamed with that and Naruto wished him good luck.
Go out. Touch grass. Make friends
>Because it proves *Sasuke tried to kill him* ????
Just like his great friend Gaara. The one he cried because he's so great and everyone loves and forgave him. Yes him.
>the entire story of the Hidden Rain village being a constant battle ground
Ah yes. Such intricate politics there
>war makes more villains
so deep. Can't leave that unanswered for real. You're so right. How can Naruto end when such a question is open. Crazy
>>224310341
stating the mangakas asspulls as actual reasons.
yes anon. You probably believe everything anyone says. Now you're going to tell me George R R Martin actually has a different ending than the one in the TV shows and that Tarantino actually needs the feet camera shoots for his movies

>>224309245
japanese high moral actions
gaijin like you will never understand

>>224310427
>Being accepted is part of being human
Holy fuck you are most dense retard ive talked to in awhile. I dont mean
>ugh I dont need anyone else im an adult and dont need love
I mean he realized how to get over his own emotional insecurities and childish need for validation because he found a greater moral purpose to defeat hate in the ninja world and try to bring peace to it. He didnt just want the village to celebrate him as a warrior he wanted love, and part of that love was honoring the dying wishes of his mentor whose mission he took up. He had to bring peace to the ninja world and become hokage who is essentially the warrior king of the village.

Oh dude this is just brutal
>if I dont understand the plot its an assault
No

>>224310533
>but the mangaka said so! If the author said so it must be real!
you're right. No intentions behind that at all. It's not like he was earning good money keeping the story going
you're so fucking right. Naruto was supposed to be a chosen one from chapter one. The aliens were there foreshadowing everything
you're so right anon-san
I love Japan now
ahhh I want to coom to japanese now. I love japaaaaaaaaaaan

/int/ - Naruto Lore Discussion

>>224309873
I haven’t read most of the thread, maybe it got covered but

I simply think that Kishi wrote Itachi as a psychopath who killed his family, the elderly, women, kids, newborns ect...
and Kishi attempted to explain why he turned evil (in the early chapters)
and it was because of Anbu influence not because he was forced but rather because of his evil nature, its just the Anbu dark environment awakened his psychopathy to kill

The ass pull to me that there was a justification on why he did so, such as the "Uchiha were going to rebel, that's why he did it" which seems like a later addition in the story than originally intended, since Itachi continued to behave like a psychopath under the Akatsuki

So wiping out your own clan because of a rebellion seemed added later on, to turn Itachi into the "good guy" because he was a popular character
Basically a half-assed excuse for an extreme behavior

Hungary and Romania

who the fuck is this retarded chilean poster

>>224308601
usa canada

Albania and Guyana

Brazil and Nordeste