learn swedish pls>What language(s) are you learning?>Ask questions about your target language!>Help people who want to learn a new language!>Participate in translation challenges or make your own!>Do not reply to the Jordanian!!>Make frens!Read the wiki:https://4chanint.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_Wiki**Comprehensible Input Wiki**https://comprehensibleinputwiki.org/wiki/Main_PageUseful links:>Free language‐learning book archive:https://mega.nz/folder/INlRkAQC#CthKI9-_kmDNyrOx12Ojbw>Books on linguistics and language courses:https://mega.nz/#F!Ad8DkLoI!jj_mdUDX_ay-8D9l3-DbnQ>Assorted language resources and some nice visual guides:https://pastebin.com/ACEmVqua>Torrents with more resources than you’ll ever need for 30 plus languages:https://archive(dot)ph/x0dFH>Russianon’s list of comprehensible input resources:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXd0V32TjCFsr1-F_en_lA4MI-i7JtyYf26cWLtPRec>Massive collection of textbooks on various languages, sorted by familyhttps://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/>/lang/ inpoot torrentshttps://rentry.org/inpoot>Refold Anki deckshttps://rentry.org/refold>Non-English piracy siteshttps://fmhy.net/non-englishPrevious Thread:>>224651331Previous Challenge:>>224651683
AIslop translation challenge - Abandoned space station>EasyThe station has been empty for twenty years.Every morning, a small robot walks through the dark corridors.It still cleans the rooms, even though nobody lives there.One day, the robot finds a strange message on a computer.The message says that someone is coming back.>MediumWhen the robot reads the message, it discovers that it was written only three days ago.It begins searching the station because it wants to find out who sent it.In one of the storage rooms, it finds a box that nobody has opened for decades.Inside the box is a photograph of the station, but there is a person standing in it whom the robot does not recognize.Although the station appears completely abandoned, the robot suddenly hears footsteps behind it.>HardThe more carefully the robot examines the photograph, the more certain it becomes that the person in it is looking directly at the camera.What frightens the robot most is not the stranger's face, but the fact that the photograph seems to have been taken from inside the station.After following the footsteps through several corridors, it reaches a door that, according to the station's records, was never supposed to exist.Had the robot been capable of feeling fear, it might have turned around at that moment and returned to the room where it had spent the previous twenty years.Instead, it opens the door and discovers a second station hidden behind the first—one that appears to be inhabited.
>>224707109Which one is Vargskelethor Joel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTDkyiSo1GI
>>224707155vah station bis sal ke lie khali gayahar subah mein ek chota robot andhere galiyon mein chal raha hai (galiye is possibly wrong i think it means alleys)vah phir bhi kamron ko saaf karta hai, phir bhi vaha koi nahi rehta haiek din, robot ajeeb khabar sangnak par paata hai (no idea what message means, I only know rasool for messenger)khabar kahta hai koi dobara aa jaegaHow good am I?
Learning a language takes so much time, that it makes other hobbies/skills seem lightning-fast in comparison.
why aren’t you learning hindi?>more speakers than spanish>cool script>sounds nice (indians actually sound normal when they’re not speaking english)>resources for more obscure indian langs are sometimes only in hindi>mutually intelligible with spoken urdu
>>224708990As a hobby, it's absolutely fun as hell. The only issue is when you actually start grinding a language instead of dabbling that you learn the task is monumental and demoralizing with VERY little pay off depending on the language you pick.I'm currently at the stage wondering if I should drop it or not but I would at least like to read one non-graded reader book.
>>224708990I think that's an illusion. Becoming fluent in a language is like becoming professional level at some other skill, which also takes years of dedication. It's just that with languages, there's the expectation that first you get fluent and then you can have fun using it, so almost everyone aims for fluency right off the bat. With other hobbies/skills, reaching a professional level is obviously an extremely ambitious goal and people understand that it takes a good chunk of your life to achieve it, especially if you start in your 20s when your brain ain't braining so good no more.
>>224709135>more speakers than spanishThat was only recently.
>>224709135I use to never discrimate against other languages because the concept is stupid but the idea of learning hindu or anything inside india just sounds hellish. Literally any other language in comparison sounds reasonable. Japanese, russian, chinese, spanish, french, greek, arabic, etc. If you for some reason completely ignore the biggest languages used world wide for one in a subcontinent which has their own 100s of other langauges then you are retarded.>>224709194I'm so glad my starting goal was to barely understand russian text and speech with the ability to throw out insults. I don't need to be fluent, I just want to make my teammates feel like shit. It wasn't fair that they were immune to my bullshit just because they couldn't speak english.
>>224709144>VERY little pay offI disagree with that part. I haven't earned any money or anything from learning languages, but the experiences have been fantastic. It just takes fucking forever to reach that point.>>224709194There are other skills that take forever but they at least give you some payoff early, like a few months in. You could definitely play some decent music on piano or guitar after a year. You could probably draw decent cartoons/manga style pictures after a year of dedicated practice. But with languages, the problem is that you need fluent comprehension before you can have a normal conversation, otherwise you're stuck constantly asking people to repeat/slow down.I think language learning is the ultimate marshmallow test, only the most disciplined at delayed gratification can succeed.
>>224709135I do I started when I was 16Learning in school meaning as much as using a book ignoring the lessions of stuff that did not make sense to learn for me anywayUrdu is a bonus eventually I would need to learn their script tooI would have learned Spanish if I had a Peruvian husband, but there is none to motivate me>>224709455I'm a lifeless NEET, I have INFINITE time and boredom, doing these lessions is absolutely perfect while grinding War Thunder, Star Trek Online and similar games. Learning languages is just grind but in the end likely more usefulIf I can't find Indian femboy then at least I can watch those movies with only Hindi audio I accidentially torrented
>>224709761Ich bin halb spanisch und ich sehe ganz spanisch aus, Fräulein. ¿Tú eres una señorita, verdad?
I feel demoralized today. I can't even complete the translation challenge, and I was planning to learn two or three other foreign languages. It's over for an unc>>224709194But I think that with many skills, you don't have to be a master to enjoy them or to live off them; a decent level is enough. Things like foreign languages or, idk, chess are different and it can be soulcrushing>>224709455>There are other skills that take forever but they at least give you some payoff early, like a few months inSuch as? You still have to be good at something to make money from it. Drawing, programming, sports, business etc. They pay well in competitive fields
I'd be curious to see a comparison of different hobbies/skills and how long it takes to get to top percentile skill-wise. I don't think language learning takes considerably more than anything else, compared to something like getting Global Elite in Counter-Strike or learning one of those autistic map games or getting good enough at drawing to take commissions or publish your writing. How many hours is your average 4 year degree? Everything takes forever if you actually want to git gud beyond mediocre.
>>224710226Ich bin ganz Deutsch aber kein Fräulein, sehe aber so aus. Aber mein Schwanz ist genauso groß wie der vom Peruaner. I wish he was not a coward.
>>224710524Maybe, but I think it takes longer to be medicore in languages than in many other skills
>>224710551Un hombre no tan masculino aun es un hombre. No deberías pensar que tienes que asumir el papel de una mujer.
>>224709761>An indian femboyI would never wish that on my worst enemy. By god, what is wrong with you? Or are you already an indian immigrant. No offense.
>>224711184I'm a German born in GermanyAn androgynous long haired male in saree would be my sahi chaahat even if they were brownIdeally to have relationship like pic related together, just with a lot more relentless boiseggsmost Indian look like hairy bearded pajeets of course but on my local German apps theres also only hairy fat and old people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asbqaAAp7KAIngen sörjer när du dör, ingen ska sakna det du gör
>>224707155Tha an stèisean air a' bhith falabh fad fithead bliadhnaichean.A h-uile madainn, coisichidh robotair beag tron trannsachan dorcha.Glanaidh an t-seòmar fhathast e, ged a chan eil fear air còmhnaidh an-sin.Latha, lorgaidh an robotair air coimpiutair rabhas coimheach.Tha an rabhas ag ràdh a bheil cuid-eigineach air a' tilleadh.
>>224713920Is that KOGO language?Sounds like celtic fury to me
>>224714119Chan eil fhios agam dè tha KOGO.S'e an Gàidhlig na h-Alba a th'ann.
>>224714326This?
>>224707109im convinced where do i start with Swedish?
>>224707155Cтaнция былa пycтa двaдцaть лeт.Кaждoe yтpo, poбoт хoдит пo тёмным кopидopaм.Oн вcё eщё yбиpaeтcя в кoмнaтaх, хoть никтo тaм нe живёт.Кoгдa-тo, poбoт нaхoдит нa кoмпьютepe cтpaннoe cooбщeниe.B cooбщeниeм нaпиcaнo, чтo кoe-ктo вepнётcя.Пpoчитaв cooбщeниe, poбoт yзнaёт чтo oнo былo нaпиcaнo тoлькo тpи дня нaзaд.Oн нaчинaeт иcкaть cтaнцию, чтoбы yзнaть, ктo имeннo oтпpaвил cooбщeниe.B oднoй из клaдoвых кoмнaт, oн нaхoдит кopoбкy, зaкpытyю мнoгo лeт нaзaд.B кopoбкe лeжит фoтoгpaфия cтaнции, нo в нeй cтoит чeлoвeк, нeзнaкoмый poбoтy.Хoтя и cтaнция, кaжeтcя, зaбpoшeнa, вдpyг poбoт cлyшaeт шaги зa cпинoй.Чeм бoльшe poбoт paccмaтpывaeт фoтoгpaфию, тeм бoльшe oн cтaнoвитcя yвepeн, чтo чeлoвeк в фoтoгpaфии cмoтpит пpямo нa кaмepy.To, чтo бoльшe вceгo пyгaeт poбoт, этo нe лицo чyжoгo, a caм фaкт чтo кaжeтcя фoтoгpaфия былa cнятaя внyтpи cтaнции.Пocлeдoвaв шaги чepeз нeкoтopыe кopидopы, oн дoбиpaeтcя к двepи, пo зaпиcaм cтaнции нe дoлжнa cyщecтвoвaть.(cont.)
Why Swedish instead of German or even Dutch? Am I missing something?
>>224709135indians are not interesting to me and the funny ones make videos in English
>>224717103Excellent. You can start with Assimil or Colloquial Swedish.I recommend adding texts/audio to Lute and working through them that way.Move on to graded content, listening to easy podcasts and watching tv shows with Language Reactor.There's also some games you can play.
>>224717147Ecли бы y poбoтa вoзмoжнocть чyвcтвoвaть cтpaх, oн мoг бы и в тoт мoмeнт пepeвepнyтьcя и нaпpaвитьcя к кoмнaтe, гдe oн пoтpaтил двaдцaть лeт.Bмecтo тoгo, oн oткpывaeт двepь и yзнaёт втopyю cтaнцию, cпpятaннyю зa пepвoй - и кaжeтcя oнa oбитaeмaя.I had to look up the construction чeм...тeм... and клaдoвaя кoмнaтa, but other than that I think I did alright here
>>224717103Why?Really you just gotta learn words cause the grammar's basically the same as English
>>224717769why not?
>>224717181German is more powerful, but Swedish has more soul. The only problem is that there's just way less content, they only dub kidsslop (but not anime lol) and every tv show is like one season with 5 episodes. I'm seen like 90% of the shows on my chart and I'm only ~250 hours into this language after a year. So my only option is book + audiobook for inpoot, and whatever is available on SVT this month.
>>224709135If I was going to learn a modern Indian language, I'd learn one of the Dravidian languages. They have cooler alphabets and aren't Indo-European.
>>224708990You underestimate the time it takes for other skills and overestimate the time it takes to learn a languageAnd stop believing in the myth HURR DURR THING HARDER CAUSE OLDER
>>224714599S'e an Gàidhlig coimhneach, chan eil e na h-Alba.Crét -> CarsonAirlam -> Air làmhTogh/Tó -> ThaCert -> CeartRáthbuige -> TocalaicheBúanaid -> Craobhadair (no neach-gearraidh)Treabthach -> TuathanachÍascaire -> Iasgair (no iasgadair)Feodaige -> Trusagh bìdhSelgaire -> SealgairMíanaige -> Mèinneadair Bíd fír -> Tha sin ceartFer atnugadh -> Neach-càradh
There's an FSI course for Swedish, and it's funny because it obviously wasn't made with the same rigor or expectation of intense study as the other courses. I guess the Foreign Service Institute knew that Swedish really isn't critical for an Anglophone diplomat.
>>224718944It's also piss easy to learn and every Swede's gonna speak English anyway
>>224717147>Кaждoe yтpo, poбoт хoдит пo тёмным кopидopaм.No need for a comma>хoть никтo тaм нe живёт.*хoтя тaм никтo нe живёт>Кoгдa-тoOднaжды>B cooбщeниeм нaпиcaнo, чтo кoe-ктo вepнётcя.*cooбщeнии. Ктo-тo instead of кoe-ктo.>тoлькo тpи дня нaзaд.I think вceгo тpи дня нaзaд would be more fitting,>иcкaть cтaнцию*oбыcкивaть cтaнцию, what you wrote is more "looking for the station">нo в нeй cтoит чeлoвeк, нeзнaкoмый poбoтy.Ha нeй instead of в нeй. >cлyшaeтCлышит.>cмoтpит пpямo нa кaмepy.B кaмepy would be more correct in context>пyгaeт poбoт*poбoтa, don't forget your cases.>caм фaкт чтo *caм фaкт тoгo, чтo. Awkward, but more correct.>cнятaя*cнятa>oн дoбиpaeтcя к двepи, пo зaпиcaм cтaнции нe дoлжнa cyщecтвoвaть*oн дoбиpaeтcя дo двepи, кoтopaя, пo зaпиcям cтaнции, нe дoлжнa cyщecтвoвaть>>224717361>Ecли бы y poбoтa вoзмoжнocть*Ecли бы y poбoтa былa вoзмoжнcть>пepeвepнyтьcяpaзвepнyтьcя>Bмecтo тoгo*Bмecтo этoгo >yзнaёт*нaхoдитDecent, but needs work. I feel like a cunt pointing this out, but your commas are all over the place. You're following the English syntax too closely and that just doesn't work with Russian.
>>224718623>And stop believing in the myth HURR DURR THING HARDER CAUSE OLDERYou're mixing me up with the Serb
>>224717147>>224717361I'm getting mogged so hard by this brit. I'm never reaching their level of russian no matter how much time I no life. It's so joever.
I refuse to do AI slop challenge
>>224719593Inpootmaxxer or clanker-phobic?
>>224719593ok, anon. i understand where you're coming from and probably why. can you and do you want to write for me in your tl what happened to you today up until this point of posting your message? bonus points from me if you include what you might be doing later today
>>224719763I habe mich ein wichsenzeit und an groBe bruste gewichst und jetze wird ich nach mcdonald und nuggies abholen und dann wird ich weiter wichsen an groBe tittens.
>>224718196There are dubs of some older mainsteam animes that were aired on TV like sailor moon, moomin (I need to watch this in Japanese some time) and pokemon, outside of that it's almost non existent though.
>>224718196The Swedes seem more Americanized to me than the Germans, so idk about soul. I like that Confederate (non-)larp with southern crosses etc, it's kino. They used to make great films, but then the Danes took over for a while. Pitch accent is cool, makes them sound funny. If German and emigration don't work out, I'll try to do something with Scandinavia or the Netherlands. On the other hand, vowel autism in Germanic lingos is driving me crazy.
>>224719102Thanks for the detailed feedback anon. Russian is hard
>>224707109How do I cope with the fact that I've learnt only 2 languages while my brain was still soft and malleable?
>>224720144learned*
>>224720195yank
>>224719913bona fortuna tibi et mentula tua
>>224720144>hurr durr I'm 26 and incapable of learning new things>durrrrr dementia at 26 its over
>>224720144whilest*
>>224718981Yeah, that's what I meant by my last sentence.
>>224720144Lower your expectations. You can still have fun reaching some dogshit mediocre level that isn't fluency. Maybe have some kids and force them to learn a language to emotionally compensate for what you never managed to do, they will surely thank you for it when they are older.
Human made Challenge:>Easy:I am very smart.I can learn any language.Please talk to me.>Medium The Serb has told me that I should give up.Is he right? Maybe I really should give up since I will never be fluent.All these talks about learning methods is confusing my brain.>HardNeuroplasticity is a term that's thrown around here alot. I have no clue what it means but I still use it just to make myself sound smart.Wikipedia said neuroplasticity refers to the brain's ability to rewire itself which enables learning. It is said your plasticity goes down as you age, but I really dislike this model of matching human abilities to hardware.I must be coping because I just realized I will never make it, is it all over for me? Anyways I guess I will read Wikipedia articles on Serbian war crimes during the Yugoslav wars or something to cope.
>>224720753>Ich bin sehr klug.Ich kann alle Sprache lernen.Bitte sprechen Sie mit mir.
>>224720753The Serbian's a retarded and neuroplasticity doesn't matter until you're 70
Do I learn Russian or Chinese?
>>224720963This is now a bonus challenge
>>224720987RussianTonal languages are ugly
>>224721015Chinese is quite ugly but it means so much cuties to talk to
>>224720987learn dungan instead
>>224720753Tha mi glè tapaidh.'S urrain dhomh iunnsachadh cànan sam bith.Bruidhinn rium, mas e do thoil e.Thoirt an Sèirbeach am bu còir dhomh a strìochd.Tha e ceart? Bu còir dhut theag a strìochd, airson cha bhi mi fileanta gu bràth.Tha an rabhd uile mu rianan foghlmain a' breisleachadh mo eanchainn.
>>224720753Aš esu labai protingą Aš galiu išmokti kiekviena kalba.Prašom kalbėk man
>>224720195no, I don't really say learned(except when it's like learnèd)>>224720379no, I usually say while there>>224720371this, but unironically kinda. I was able to pick up things so quickly in my teens/early 20s>>224720604forcing failed dreams onto your children, language editionI have a half cope cos I mostly want to read in one of the languages.
>>224722940You are not learning Lithuanian. Fuck off.
>>224720753>>224722940Serbios papasako manė kad aš reiksiu mesiu.Yra jis teisingas? Gal aš tikrai turėtų mesiu kadangi aš niekada bus laisvėsVisas šis šneko apie išmokas metodas yra raizgus už mano smegenys.
>>224722959I amWhy are you mad at me?
>>224723182Google Translate/AI translation is not learning.
>>224723207I did not use Google translate lol. I think the Lithuanian in the thread can confirm all my errors are human errorsI am finishing my 3 book in lithuanian (the second Harry Potter book)
>>224723182I think it's Poleaf and he's mad that someone is learning a more useless language than him.
>>224723344Lmao
>>224723344>>224723362Also lithuanian is very useful for me plus it's a beautiful language
>>224723344There's a deranged jeet out there learning Polish?
How do militaries/intelligence agencies teach their agents languages so quickly? Is it possible to replicate that myself?
>>224723388You're moving there and joining the military, right? Well, fair enough, you're gonna need it for sure.>>224723395He's a handsome blond white man based on the one picture I saw. I wonder where he is? I need him to confirm my neuroplasticity theories, he's been learning Polish for 6+ years. He shall be my demonstrative case study.
>>224723768/lang/ers are missing out on the poleaf lore from /polska/He's been dyeing his hair black for years now
Fuck that neuroplasticity bullshit cope. I can master anything.I'm built different
>>224724655It was never about neuroplasticity, but the time you could devote to the language. There's a reason most AJATTers are teenagers and/or NEETs
In this general the poleaf is a hero, end of story. People hate him because he actually learned the langauge.
>>224725893He said he's still at A2
>>224726017if he's A2, then the serb is A -100
>>224717293But he’ll never be literally perfect so why bother?
>>224726303Reaching C2 is a meme
>>224726303swedish is the most baby tier language possible you can learn it if youre 70
all languages are baby tier tbhqdesu
>>224707109i'm picking up german again, any advice frens?
>>224727273Chan eil Gàidhlig >:(
>>224726460>>224726825Yeah but what if after 5,000 hours of Spanish i have an ever so slight accent I should kms
>>224728729Why would you want a native Spanish accent lmao
>>224718380Telugu is the best sounding Indian language, to me.
>>224725866I currently have much, much more free time than I did at 16-22, a far better understanding of optimal learning methods, and a greater desire to learn languages. I still learn much, much slower than I did when I was younger. My retention of learned information is much poorer and my ability to subconsciously pick up words and grammar tanked. Adult language learning is hard, don't give people false expectations.
>>224729079Have you tried trying harder and longer?
>>224722797>Tha mi glè tapaidh.Does tapaidh not lenite because of glè? I would think it’s: Tha mi glè thapaidh. I’ve seen things like>Tha e glè shimplidh>Tha mi glè thaingeil>Tha mi glè thoilichteetc.
>>224729079>picked up easy shit easily>shit gets slower as you learn more>WAH IT CAUSE ME OLD
>>224728410Don’t bother trying to talk to Germans until you’re so fluent that your German is better than their English.
>>224730119I am learning completely different languages now than I did when I was younger. At 20, I would often see a word, see it again two weeks later, and remember it. I would also pick up lots of information without ever consciously learning it or remembering where it came from. Neither of these things happen anymore at 30. Basically everything I know in my current language I had to learn through conscious effort rather than materializing via osmosis like it used to, and for anything to stick it needs massive reinforcement (and even then often does not stick).
Fortasse post tempore in quo latinitas mea mihi tamen placet linguam japonicam studebo.
>>224728410Immediately grind grammar, even if you have before, it should be fresh in your mind. It’s quicker and easier using the inbuilt smartphone web browser translator widget to learn your TLang with digital texts than with physical books where you have to type up words, dictate them by voice, or translate by camera - translate whole sentences first in context before translating clauses and individual words and phrases.It’s okay to use media that depicts scenes very unusual to daily life like sci-fi in the future or high medieval fantasy, but to get an everyday vocabulary, you should also use more mundane media sometimes.Be careful with video games to make sure your language learning isn’t secondary to your general amusement; consider speedrunning the gameplay without missing any of the dialogue, which would be much better than maxing out all your skills. Be aware that translations of media can be very far removed from the original, such as shortening lines for a movie’s subtitles to fit comfortably on the screen or adding words that were never never there in songs to fit the metre.Find a German speaking community which you can engage with on a consistent basis like a German-speaking Holy Mass. There are also university/ college German societies. Oktoberfest is coming up, so if you’re quick to make friends, who knows? You could possibly find someone who would be willing to help you on a regular basis if you’re lucky enough.
>>224727273please learn somali
>there are dialects of french where é and ée aren't homophoneswtf???
>>224728410Disregard >>224730429 and do picrel
>umm you should learn a language>no not that one!!why are you pipo like dis
>>224731697Can you blame them for going to clown college?
>>224731918>hij beschold het pipootjeuse case for dutch?
>>224732116What do you mean by case?
what do we think of evildea?
>>224732610I'm a fan, because of his exposé videos on youtube polyglots. Seeing them broken down one language at a time, and ranked by native speakers was very eye-opening for me. And the drama that ensues whenever one is exposed as a fraud is entertaining.
>>224725893He's probably the most passionate and hard working learner in the general, and the only one I know that's been learning for 6+ years without breaks. His last check-in he was doing all this regularly.If he couldn't make it to fluency, then what hope do the rest of us have?>>224726303It's not about aiming for perfect. If you're fluent in a second language like many ESLs, you have something to compare your adult-starter language to. Forget perfect, my German is never going to be as automatic and effortless as English is in my head, simply because I started one at 5 and the other at 25.
>>224733810I've been slacking and neglecting my russian because I'm a lazy bastard however, I've decided now if I fail it's because serbie due to repeated attempts to demoralize /lang/ rather than accept my responsibility of achieving my goals.
>>224728410Consult ze chart.
>>224733887The ceiling I'm talking about only becomes evident after a couple years of learning. You're barely at the start. You can still learn to read Dostoyevski and Tolstoy in the original, just figure out a routine and stick to it.
What did the Serb say to the Serbia?‘Sir,-be-a Serbia’.
>>224719534Кaк дoлгo вы yчилиcь? Я yчилcя yжe шecть лeт (хoтя и бeз пpeпoдaвaтeля) и дoбpaлcя вceгo дo ypoвня Б2. Mнe двa гoдa нaзaд пoявилacь yкpaинcкaя дeвyшкa, гoвopящaя пo-pyccки, нo вcё eщё нe мoг лeгкo c нeй paзгoвapивaть пo-pyccки. Oнa yжe гoвopит пo-aнглийcки кaк нocитeль языкa. Mы нeдaвнo пoceтили eё cecтpy c мyжeм, нe гoвopящиe пo-aнглийcки, и я мoг тoлькo cлeдить зa тeм, o чём идёт peчь, ничeгo бoльшe. Pyccкий этo oчeнь cлoжный язык
Wait a minute, are you () learning three languages at once?German and latin and swedish?
>>224734347Just German and Swedish. I dropped Latin for now, it was giving me weird demonic nightmares (don't ask).
I made this chart instead of inputting. I'm gonna go input now.
>>224734439>, it was giving me weird demonic nightmaresdescribe them
>>224726825then achieve native level in it big boy
>>224707109Why did you change the hair color of the geat?
>>224726303says who? and why should i care about perfection?
>>224735073I like it.Under dreamer should be the "nolanger", who insists that English is the only language that matters.
>>224735381No.>>224735445I didn't. Do you have the original?
>>224734249Punctuation wise, your post is very decent but it's stiff in a textbook-like style. Grammar is generally ok but contains mistakes natives never make.Кaкaя ocнoвнaя пpичинa изyчaть pyccкий y тeбя? Teм бoлee, yжe 6 лeт.
>>224730806Play video games while listening to 70s and 80s Lata Mangeshkar and then use translator for any words I don't know meaning yes thats what I doI would like some long term penpal but gay dating apps are better than nothing at least you get a lot of conversations there
>>224735749Bы дyмaeтe, чтo я иcпoльзyю cлишкoм мнoгo пpичacтий? Mнe cкaзaли тaк бyдeт звyчaть фopмaльнo. Haпpимep "гoвopящaя" вмecтo "ктo гoвopит". Mнe нe яcнo, гдe oбычнo иcпoльзoвaть a гдe нeт. У мeня нe былo ocнoвнoй пpичины нaчaть изyчaть, нo мнe вceгдa нpaвилocь языки. B шкoлe я yчилcя нeмeцкий и фpaнцyзcкий, пoлyчил oтличныe oцeнки, нo пo-мoeмy oни cлишкoм пoхoжиe нa aнглийcкий, и пocлe шкoлы мнe oни бoльшe нe интepecoвaлиcь. Pyccкий мнe дaвным-дaвнo интepecoвaлcя, нaвepнo вeдь aлфaвит пoхoж a нe oдинaкoвый - oн кaзaлcя экзoтичecкий a нe coвepшeннo чyжoй. Я нeдocтaтoчнo coшeл c yмa, чтoбы yчилcя китaйcкий или япoнcкий. Бoлee этoгo, я люблю в языкaх бoльшe вceгo гpaммaтикy, и pyccкaя гpaммaтикa cильнo oтличaeтcя oт aнглийcкoй. Coздaниe пpeдлoжeния нa pyccкoм пoхoжe нa гoлoвoлoмкy, и я пoлyчaю yдoвлeтвopeниe, peшив ee.
I haven't spent any time learning languages lately because of my depression
I would learn faster if I lurked the threads in my TL instead of returning here every 5 minutes for the latest eceleb language learning gossip
>>224736453What's your TL and who's your favorite /lang/ eceleb?
>>224736586Italian Poleaf
>>224736380У тeбя пpocкaкивaют oчeнь cтpaнныe нeecтecтвeнныe oшибки пo типy:"B шкoлe я yчилcя нeмeцкий" => "yчил""мнe oни бoльшe нe интepecoвaлиcь" => "мeня oни бoльшe нe интepecoвaли""Pyccкий мнe дaвным-дaвнo интepecoвaлcя" => "мeня дaвным-дaвнo интepecoвaл"These sound absolutely alien to native ears. You need to improve your understanding of verb forms like "yчил/yчилcя, зaпoминaл/зaпoминaлcя, ...".
>>224736785Decent choice. Carry on.
>>224736586i thought that was NL for a second from a glancing view
Another beautiful day for language learning bros
>>224737902Odio mi trabajo
>>224734439Why let them triumph over you?Think of the level of sanctity you may attain if you prevail.
>>224720753κάρτ' ἀγχίνους ἐγώπᾶσά μοι γλῶττα μαθητήδιαλέγου μοι αἰτῶ σεὁ Σέρβος παρῄνεσέν μοι πρέπον ἀπειπεῖνἆρά γ' ἀληθὲς εἶπεν; ἴσως λῷον ἔσται ἅτε μὴ εὔγλωττος γενησόμενοςπᾶσαι αἵδ' ἀθρούμεναι γλωττομαθείας τέχναι ταράττουσιν τὸν νοῦν μουἡ νευροπλαστότης ῥῆμα ἐνθάδε θρυλούμενον ὅ τι βούλεται οὐκ ἔκω εἰπεῖν ἀλλ' οὐδὲν ἧττον λέγω ἵνα φαίνωμαι συνετός
>>224709135I just don't like the people or accent, is all.Same with african languages.Whenever I hear it I have to quickly turn the video off because it causes a physical disgust response.>>224709455>Only the most disciplined can get a payoffI am the least disciplined in this stuff, I rushed harry potter as soon as I understood enough words to get by with looking up like every other word. I got my gratification with the language probably only a month or so in by grinding alice in wonderland repeatedly.Speaking is a tiny part of language learning and if you can enjoy youtube slop or reading you get your gratification literally a couple weeks in seeing how much you improve, or like a month in with actually understanding some low-level content or things you've specifically studied (if you study the same genre material the re-used vocabulary artificially boosts your level)You aren't doing anything real on a piano or guitar after a month, I could really sit down and listen to some slop videos after that amount of time.
>>224736586Who is YOUR favorite /lang/-celeb?
>>224739798I miss the ALGzillian. We had some good back-and-forth discussions.
Soy un retardo
>>224709144When you start grinding out books it gets more fun, just a routine of an hour or two a day of reading. It's terrible when you're recommended slop books but other than that I can see myself reading for a couple hours a day pretty much forever in my TL.Just dabbling is harder, watching a couple shit videos here and there, hardly getting through a book without really understanding it because you're not reading enough, once I sat down and read for hours while focused I got more enjoyment out of it.
>Beatus vir qui timet Dominum,in mandatis ejus volet nimis.vs>Beato l’uomo che teme il Signore;desidera ardentemente i suoi comandamenti.How does a language change so much in ~2000 years
>>224740073Literally just sound shifts, the direct article, and choosing “homo” instead of “vir” which is just the translator’s choice.
>>224739798No idea what you consider such but baldandbankrupt is highly motivational. I like his completely fearless approach.
>>224740401do you think the hindi word "shoorvir" has any relation to the latin "vir"One I remembered from school
nilhil habeō, tamen beātus nōn sumquid faciendum est???
>>224740497Latin "vir" is also cognate with the "were-" in English "werewolf."
>>224740548Plures hic Latine locuntur quam in illo filo linguis antiquis proprie dicato quod /clg/ nuncupatur
Speakers of most languages can't even read 200 years old texts in their language. Some languages don't even have any texts that old.Chinks, for example, can hardly understand their scribblings from half a century ago.If you can't read your language's Pushkin from 200 years ago, or, God forbid, you're learning a such language, then you should immediately cease to use that pathetic barbaric growls chaotically thrown together.
>>224741145Each of my TLs has 2000+ years of comprehensible literature.
>>224707109forgot the gascon nobleman who rules over all of these with an iron fist
>>224741145Latin Patricii win again
>>224740548Si tristis es, quin omnia possidere conaris? Ut scripsit Sanctus Paulus Apostolus:>quasi tristes semper autem gaudentes sicut egentes multos autem locupletantes tamquam nihil habentes et omnia possidentesSi et nihil haberes et omnia possideres, sine dubio gauderes.
>>224720144This might sound dumb, but try exercising and having good sleep, it could simply be walking but do it regardless.I genuinely feel I understand stuff faster than my teen years.t. 27 years unc
>>224742029This but 28 years, I stopped the slop. I used to play FPS games all throughout my teen years and not really do much else, now I spend my days relaxing and learning and there's no question whether me or younger me picks up on things quicker.
How does your TL translate Genesis 2:23?>she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.This verse contains a play on words that works in some languages but not others. In the Hebrew, the word for man is "ish" (אִישׁ), and the word for woman is "ishah" (אִשָּׁה), so it works as it does in English.In the Latin Vulgate, the word "vir" is used for man, but the word "virgo" (maiden) is used for woman instead of a more common term like "mulier" just so that this wordplay is maintained.In the Greek Septuagint, no effort at all is made to accommodate this wordplay:>αὕτη κληθήσεται γυνή, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ ἀνδρὸς αὐτῆς ἐλήφθη αὕτη
>>224740557OH SHITit makes so much sense now
This ai motherfucker can be so useless and even harmful
>>224742895"How could you not read (red) that"Sounds like ooga-booga caveman speech
hehe vir vulf
>>224743042omitting the 'have' verb makes them seem like an intelligent grug who enriched his big speak with numerous big words
>>224732610I was interested in his polyglot deboonking videos, but he stopped doing those and most of his content became low effort reaction videos. His dreaming spanish progress videos were kind of interesting though.
>>224732610I've been watching some of his shorter videos, the ones that are years old and only 10 minutes long.He talks about grinding and everything but he's switched to making 20-30 minute videos and I really can't watch them unless I fast-forward them, I can't grind if he keeps releasing half-hour videos.He does have a ridiculously high bar for being fluent or speaking a language in general and he's a little pedantic at times, other times he's relaxed, he switches from being a pedantic retard to a relaxed chad.
>>224740557Fun fact: the french word for werewolf (loup-garou) literally means wolf-werewolf. The second part comes from old french garulf/garalf/garvalf etc, which comes from some germanic language and is (obviously) cognate with werewolf.
I just learn new words when I feel like it, but keep my anki reviews in order no matter what.I'm hoping to be like 90% fluent in 8 years time. Japanese btw. Chillmaxxing is the way.
>>224741974animam avunculis habeo, non possum gaudere cum omnibus juvenibus
>>224732610Not really interested in that type of content so I'm pretty neutral.
>>224745906I think there's enough noob material for japanese that you can basically pick up new words or review old ones forever, seeing as they still teach their writing system well into high school.It seems like a fun one to learn.But yeah your system sounds good if you actually keep up with reviews, and 1,000 new words a year just chilling is easy enough.
>>224742895I threw pic related at chatgpt to test it on the first word and it confidently gave me a wonderfully wrong answer The first character is 狐, read こ in this context.Together with the second character 狸, it forms:狐狸(こり)Normally, 狐 means "fox" and 狸 means "tanuki (raccoon dog)." The compound 狐狸 (こり) is an old literary word referring to foxes and tanuki collectively, often with the implication of mysterious or supernatural creatures (since both are traditional shapeshifters in Japanese folklore).etc etc...Yeah..... it's not even close. To be fair those are really rare characters and I asked it to recognize it visually from a picture but even so it illustrates the issue.
>>224730105Tha sùil gheur agad, tapadh leat.
I'm wondering if it's worth learning Japanese if you don't like anime (maybe aside from a few cool titles). I'm also surprised that Jdramas aren't as popular or produced in such large numbers or exported as much as Kdramas. For example, there’s a lot of great source material for cool series based on Japanese light novels (let’s ignore isekai and the like), but they turn them into generic anime with uninteresting, static animation.On the other hand, I think India is making the opposite mistake, because many of its productions would gain international popularity if they were action-packed shounen-style animations. Naruto or, idk, JJK, could easily be a Bollywood series but with less success abroad
>>224748430One could argue for cinema, as this has been one of Japan's strengths. Relatively mainstream stuff like Kurosawa or Kore-eda get solid translations, but veer even slightly from that path and you can get a veritable hackjob of subbing. Of course, how much does one need language in an inherently visual genre of arts is a different question altogether.
how much input is actually recommended by sla researchers? i was looking at paul nations language learning program and input only makes up 25% of the total time despite the average reddit language learner saying you should be doing 80-90% inpoot and the rest anki
>>224742895>>224743042>>224744243In my opinion, "how could you not read that" is talking about a hypothetical situation, like "it would be so enticing, how could you restrain yourself from the temptation of reading it?" or maybe "the text on the sign is so big and prominent, how could you ignore it?" On the other hand, "how could you not have read that" is talking about an actual failure to read something, as in, "You've never read Harry Potter? Like, seriously?"
>>224749553That's not the issue. Using the "red" pronunciation in the sentence, "How could you not read that?" is ungrammatical because "read" (red) is the past participle of "read" (reed).
>>224749679You're right, and you just caught a flaw in my previous explanation. The chatbot got the pronunciation wrong the first time but fixed it in the following message when called out.
>>224745906When you realize how few people really stick to these over the top programs, and realize how much a relatively light anki load compounds over time, you realize language learning after the absolute basics (for comprehension) really is just engaging with your goal media and having some supplementary way to accumulate words.There’s a Latin professor with 20 years of experience who once said that to learn the 6,670 words needed for 98% vocabulary coverage (latin has a small core vocabulary) was “virtually impossible.” But evidently he was unaware of stuff like anki and assumed it would be through raw reading, since even 5 cards a day of anki would get someone to reach that point in a few years.I do supplementary grammar work or writing, but because it’s fun. I otherwise literally just read a minimum of an hour and usually 1.5-2 a day.
Should I learn Finnish to communicate with my deceased parasocial lover from Finland?
>>224748745There are a lot of Japanese artsy movies, sure, but I'm talking about something closer to cinema slop but not something totally shitty, not the absolute worst kind of slop. Especially if it's not an action anime and is set in the present day, that's why I mentioned light novels as a source material>Of course, how much does one need language in an inherently visual genre of arts is a different question altogether.If we take this to the extreme, then aside from reading poetry, we don't need foreign languagesIt's always fun to read or watch something in its original form, and on top of that, to understand the cultural context or even the cultural vibe, for example from other media in the TL>>224750184>>224745906Do this for my TL rn. Sometimes I have moments when I'm checking a lot of things or have the energy to watch learning materials, but my daily minimum is Anki. I also have an English deck where I have to spell words bc I want to fix my typos. But I doubt I'll master the language quickly this way, certainly not as quickly as I had expected>>224750208No, you should learn Finnish for their disco music
>>224726825Not really, we have plenty of immigrants who have lived here for decades and still sound like retards.
>>224750574>No, you should learn Finnish for their disco musicThis is the opposite of what I should listen to.
>>224750832that's true for all immigrant group in any country thoughever
>>224753230That's because immigrants just make their own enclaves without interacting with the locals. Hate it when that happens, that will never be me
>Japanese learners兄 represent a concept in Japanese culture, which can be approximately be translated into what we in the west consider to be an older brother. But it's not a direct equivalent due to the unique culture of Japan and their familial structure which is different to other places in the world. You can try to understand it, you can't because you aren't japanese, as an older brother.>Chinese learners兄 means older brother
>>224750832Think most learn it well. You're just a negative Nancy.
>>224753352It's like how you call that neighborhood old man "uncle"We are all the same
>he didn’t cultivate his intellect when he was young so he can’t learn a language now that he’s >25 using his experience, wisdom, know-how, and accumulated knowledgeMust suck being stupid. Glad I worked so hard to learn and to learn how to learn when I was young.
>>224755330Share your secrets boss
>>224755330>worked so hard to learn and to learn how to learn
>>224750832I meant easy for native english speakers
>>224755330When I was 19 I set out to learn to make professional level 3D character sculpts and realistic faces. I succeeded within a literal 35 days of practicing 3 hours a day. In 35 days I went from making shitty deformed 6-year-old's-artwork looking face sculpts to making sculpts that could fit in a professional movie or videogame. The shriveled and worn brain of the unc is simply no match for the warm clay that is the brain of the youth
>>224747559Use Deepseek. It's better at Asian languages since it's made by the Chinese.
>>224748430There are tons of live action adaptations of light novels/anime/manga in Japan you'll just never hear about them unless you specifically look for them
>>224755871Here's the Jap cover
>>224748430Japanese has more unique content than any other language in the world besides english. You can basically replace almost anything you normally do with japanese.
>>224707155'Nuair leugh an robotair an rabhas, lorg e nach scrìobhadh ach trì làithean o chionn e.Dh'inntrinn a' lorg tron stèisean e airson 's gu bheil e ag iarraidh a' lorg cò a chuir.Ann an aon den seòmraichean-stòrais, lorg e bogsa 's nach do dh'fhosgail daoine o deicheadan e.'S e dealbh-camara mun stèisean anns an bogsa, ach 's e fear na staigheadh ann 's cha aithnich an robotair e.Ge an coimhead fuar falamh an stèisean, chuala gu h-obann an robotair cas-cheuman air a chùl.
>>224742306Pre-modern Spanish translations made the distinction despite it not being natural to Spanish. The Reina-Valera line of Bibles from the Reformation starting in 1569 until now and those copying its style use ‘varón’ and ‘varona’ for male and female (the latter being unatural), while the 1823 Torres Amat translation of the Vulgate use ‘hombre’ and ‘hembra’ man and female (natural words, but in my limited Spanish, I think this is an unusual pair as the usual pairs are varón-hembra and hombre-mujer). The 1944 Nacar-Colunga Bible, which was the the first Spanish Catholic Bible to use the Greek and Hebrew as a source, also uses varón and varona, but most translations Catholic and Protestant these days just use ‘hombre’ and ‘mujer’. German is actually more interesting because it is much more rigid in its gender rules, but Martin Luther in his 1534 Luther Bible and its revisions made a new word just to emulate the Hebrew: from ‘Mann’ comes ‘Männin’. This is very seldom copied - I could be wrong, but perhaps because among Protestants the Lutherbibel had KJV-like status and there weren’t many nee translations until the 20th century; also, I would assume Catholics would use a Vulgate translation, but I can’t find what that is (it would be nice to know what the TLM community uses). The only translations AI says has this distinction is the Protestanr Elbefelder Bible and the Catholic Pattloch Bible.
>>224756255Oh, and most German translations would nowadays say ‘Mann’ and ‘Frau’.
>>224739767>Whenever I hear it I have to quickly turn the video off because it causes a physical disgust response.that’s just racism bro
the three types of /lang/ posters:>does listening to audio of a language help you learn it?>if you weren’t already bilingual before the age of 7 then you’re ngmi>SHOULD I LEARN OROMO OR AMHARIC TO STOP THE ETHIOPIAN GHOSTS FROM HAUNTING MY DREAMS?!!!?
>>224755379Skill building/habit formation is itself a skill>>224755479Yes but you can build on that foundation in related pursuits or just in skill-building generally>>224755346Try hard in school but also try hard outside of school at the same time. When your baseline in anything is high level what you find easy will be higher level than it would be otherwise. Having a high reading level in English makes learning to read other languages easier for example. Learning a language in high school when you’re young makes it easier to teach yourself in college, teaching yourself in college makes you more capable of teaching yourself in 25, so on and so forth. I know it’s vague and pretentious sounding but the core is just to really push yourself from 18-25 because the character you form then, for better or worse, will be who you are for the long term absent major effort later in life.I knew one guy who was a druggie till 30s, did night school, law school part time, graduated law school this year. So it’s also never too late.
Tha mi mòran nas fhèarr an-diugh
>>224748430Japan is a huge country with a huge population and actually long and well-recorded history. It's much more comparable to a popular european language than say, some random african language or even chinese where it can be hard to find much of the native content. It's also unique content, not just some book that was written in france / england / spain and just translatd to all other languages.It seems to be to be one of the countries with the most media in existence that's open to the west, even if you discount stuff like anime that's made for 13 year old boys.
>>224749222There's no "consensus" for this, the absolute fastest way is to go 90% anki and then smash the rest together.Problem is that 1,200 hours of anki is much harder than 1,200 hours of input and 300 of anki.Input should just make up however much you can stand / enjoy.
>>224756626No it's a physiological disgust response, akin to seeing a dead animal or caca.
>>224756626And? Pussy.
IQ is the limiting factor, not age
Can anime?No annie may not.
>>224748430A lot of J-dramas are adaptations from anime and light novels, so they tend to be just as whacky and cringe. This is why "japanese acting" is a meme on /tv/. K-dramas are way better, I'm not even a fan of them per se, but I've seen several in German dub that had great premises and characters, because they bubble up to the mainstream. I think this is because they write original stories for mature audiences.>>224750208No, just learn to astral project. He will understand any language you speak in that realm.>parasocialBe prepared that he might not be too happy to see you.>>224755330You can always learn facts and step-by-step procedures, but what diminishes with age is the brain's ability to automate and off-load processing to the subconscious, freeing up your cognitive load and working memory so that you can do more at the same time. That means that you will always be capped when the number of operations required is simply too much for your conscious processing. The way this manifests in different activities might vary, but it eventually happens. Also, 25 is just an arbitrary cut-off, in reality, it starts way earlier and every year you lose a little bit potential, but it probably only really becomes noticeable in your late 20s. Even if you have talent or you've gained some magical know-how on "how to learn", you can't outrun this because you have no control when your brain decides to automate something. There's this chess youtuber called Hanging Pawns that started chess in his 20s and he's clearly talented, rapidly improving in a few years, but he's been hard capped at 2000 rating for years, despite being dedicated and training full time. It's sad because if he discovered chess, even a decade earlier, he might have become a titled player if not a grandmaster. This is a common pattern with all adult learners. They clearly lose something with adulthood.>>224758717I think IQ just extends the deadline.
>>224759389>That means that you will always be cappedHow do you know that it's a hard cap?The "offloading" from conscious to subconscious could maybe be slowed down as you get older, but wouldn't that just mean that it takes a bit longer to reach full subconscious processing? I don't see why you've drawn this conclusion that some things will never get offloaded no matter how much you practice.
>>224760208Maybe that could be the case. But looking at chess again, we don't see that pattern. If it just slowed down, then we'd see people start in their 20s and reach grandmaster eventually, maybe in their 60s, but it simply doesn't happen... 2000-2100 is the hard cap for adult learners and there doesn't seem to be any exceptions to this (the few "exceptions" are people starting young but taking a break and then picking it up again). My intuition here is that chess is sufficiently complex that you cannot compensate with conscious processing, you have automate great parts of it, if you want to have any kind of chance at the higher-levels.For language learning, it's more difficult to say because we can't put an exact number on skill, but if this is a general brain aging phenomenon, then it likely affects all cognitive-based activities similarly. In language learning, we have the distinction between "learning" and "acquisition", and the ceiling would be failing to acquire certain features of the language no matter how much you spend inpooting. Then your only choice is to compensate with "learning", learn step-by-step procedures and monitor yourself in order to catch mistakes or adjust accent or think through the grammar logic. This can work well enough, depending on the language, your age and your willingness to always be monitoring, certainly enough to pass exams or impress someone in brief encounters, but true fluency is much more robust and stress tolerant. The gap is much more obvious when you have a second language you learned early and you can compare it to the adult-starter language, it's really like night and day.
>When I speak Thai, I think in Thai. When I speak English, I think only in thought—I pay no attention to English.>Judged from the inside, my speaking of Thai hadn’t even been going along the same track as my speaking of English. I was doing something completely different: I was speaking partly through my monitor. Sometimes I felt like I had two different Thai languages in me: the conscious monitor (built by study and kept alive by my daily editing of Thai textbooks) and the subconscious language (built from cascades in real life). And the conscious part could never get completely out of the way. In fact, when they finally fought it out in 1980, the conscious won.Here's J. Marvin Brown noticing this, but his theories were that you got damaged from conscious study. I don't think he considered that brain neuroplasticity was the main problem, after a certain point, you can't help but build the conscious monitor in order to compensate for what refuses to be acquired naturally. If you try ALG with a teenager, you'll have better results than someone in their late 20s. Brown's excuse was that he was a linguist and he couldn't help but think about the language, in reality, he was just old...
>>224760767I don't know much about chess, but I imagine there could be other explanations for that, such as the fact that if you start younger, you have more experience. Also people who started young might feel more confident about their skill, which leads to them being more likely to pursue ambitious goals.> in order to catch mistakes or adjust accent or think through the grammar logicI'm not convinced that highly advanced adult language learners are still working through grammar logic consciously when they speak. Maybe if they have to say something unusually complex, but how different is that really from a native speaker?
>>224761697>if you start younger, you have more experienceThere's 8-year-olds that can destroy an adult that's been playing their entire life. It's really not about time spent learning, people that start young are just able to automate chess calculation and they notice things faster and more effortlessly, an adult might need to look at a position for 5 minutes to understand what a sufficiently skilled young player can notice in 2 seconds. And the funny part is that it's not even rare, if you go to over-the-board tournaments, you'll see kids competing with adults and holding titles various titles. Not everyone is going to be Faustino Oro, but the advantage of starting early is undisputable.>confidenceIf it was up to individual variation in personality and learning method, we would eventually see some outliers, people that start in their 20s and break the barrier, but there simply aren't any. I don't know if there are clear examples like this in other disciplines, I don't know much about Shogi or Go, but I assume it's similar.>I'm not convinced that highly advanced adult language learners are still working through grammar logic consciously when they speakWell, it's hard to measure or demonstrate outside of subjective personal reports. It would be a good research topic, getting people that learned language A in their youth and language B in adulthood, and asking them to notice and compare the subjective internal ways they process one vs the other. But most SLA research hasn't even caught up to the distinction of "learning" vs "acquisition" and that was articulated in the 70-80s, so... we can only theorize and compare notes on personal experience. My English feels very automatic and effortless since I effectively started when I was 4-5 years old, but my German feels exactly like Brown describes, a mixture of conscious monitoring and unconsciously acquired models, although my overall level is still dogshit after 4 years, who knows how much that will change.
Also, I thought this video was very cute. It's in French so /lang/ related :Phttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A94lwY6W7gw
>>224762362>And the funny part is that it's not even rare, if you go to over-the-board tournaments, you'll see kids competing with adults and holding titles various titlesThat's weird since in almost every other domain, kids don't stand a chance against adults since their brains aren't even fully formed yet. Is there something special about chess that gives kids an advantage?>>224762362>If it was up to individual variation in personality and learning method, we would eventually see some outliers, people that start in their 20s and break the barrier, but there simply aren't anyIf someone broke that barrier, would you change your mind? Or would you simply find another justification to continue thinking this way?I've noticed that there's a negative correlation with people who achieve their goals, and how strongly they believe their goal isn't feasible.>although my overall level is still dogshit after 4 yearsIirc you did a fair amount of dabbling during those 4 years, right? Or did you do 4 years of non-stop grinding German?
>>224763178>If someone broke that barrier, would you change your mind?Sure, and I'd look very closely at what they did differently.>Or did you do 4 years of non-stop grinding German?I haven't missed a day of German inpoot since I started, but I also dabbled in other languages, yes.
>>224756686Carson a bha thu nas miosa roimhe seo?
>>224759389>some magical know-how on "how to learn”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intelligence
>>224764726B’ ann glè sgìth agus mì-fhoisgeil a bha mi. B’ ann foisgeil a bha mi an-dè. Ach, tha mi glè sgìth a-rithist an-diugh. Tha mi cho sgìth. Chan eil mi ag iarraidh a dhèanamh obair an-diugh. Tha mi ag iarraidh a chluich video games fad an latha mar nuair a bha mi nas òige. But I’m probably just being a faggot and I don’t know how to say that in Scots Gaelic.
>>224740707vestro pol detrimento, vesaniast, operiuntur hic verba latina garrulitate barbare loquentium, ipse praeterii fere hoc nuntium, illic vero facilius nugari inter nos
>>224765122Just another way to look at the same phenomena.
>>224765355>vesaniastNon mihi placet tam saepe glossarium adhibere, ut scripta fori legam. Esne Catullus ipse? Etsi poeta es, id non decet. Scribe ut alii legant, quaeso, non ut mentem tuam masturberis.
>>224765861minime gentium, vesania vel vesanus inveniuntur apud e.g. Senecam inter alios, nomine usus sum non verbo
>>224765959Video. Ignosce mihi.
>>224765861>Nooooooon! Nequis me modo vocabula incognita docere!! Nooon!!!
>>224755409Anglo accents are gross though
>sunt hic tres vel plures Americani Latine loquentesQuamobrem?
>>224767525
>>224762362iirc 16-25 is more of the critical age range for skills besides language or fine motor skills. I think there's only a small statistical benefit before then and there are world class performers who didn't get serious until their teens or early 20's. Lots of artists and writers and so forth didn't get serious until much later and showed no particular early promise or childhood talent. Among historical scientists who made great discoveries afaik none of them did so before 19, but also hardly any after 30.
the prettiest languages are spoken by the ugliest people
>>224770679also dominic o'brien was the world leading memory athlete for years and he didn't even hear about mnemonics until he was 30, so it really just depends on the skill.
>>224762569Les jeux mentaux et les distractions m'a amusé. C'est ça, l'échec ? C'est ne que distraire/confuser l'adversaire ?
>>224772190*m'ont amusé
>>224762569>Grandmaster>actually a WGMwhy do they always do this?
It works >>224742029 >>224742095 I can confirm this. I've gone back to working out, and I study much better after a workout, and I don't even have the energy to get annoyed when I make a mistake>>224755871>>224755887>>224759389I think I have a problem with live action manga adaptations, especially when they try to stay true to the original (I have a similar problem with many anime for this reason), because it's a different medium. But on the other hand, many anime based on light novels are boring, precisely because the stories in light novels can be less flashy, so in that case, they should aim for film adaptations. Many of them without imitating shounen manga / anime could make great teen / young adult series
>>224769551What is the ipse doing here?
>>224755902>>224756726You've convinced me. I already listen to a lot of Japanese music, and I always manage to find one or two interesting anime every season. Japan seems to be very absorbent when it comes to consuming all kinds of content, so it pays to fill every niche.and they seem, on the one hand, to reflect curiosity about the world, and on the other, profound ignorance which, from an outsider’s perspective, is interesting and offers a unique experience (though this probably characterizes other Asian countries as well).But first, I need to get my current TL up to a decent level (in five years, probably).
>>224772607>Glorious 5 year plan before he even starts japThink you need to up your hours. As I already have a TL a 5 year plan would just be too slow for me.>>224765550>No y axisDid they measure this in donuts per second or something?
>>224772515Ipse can be used in any person (1st, 2nd, 3rd), something I often get tripped up on myself. I wanted to emphasize the "you" in the original English, and I thought "ipse" made it sound funnier.
>>224767525lingua latina simpliciter pulchra erat estque
My speaking is so far behind. I've read too much probably for my own good, and listened too much, because I struggle to remember common words and sentence structures.But I also couldn't remember the english name for an armadillo for a minute because I've seen them called ardilla only for a couple years now.
>>224773226ardilla is a squirrel
>>224772883Haha I thought it emphasized “you” I just actually never learned before that ipse could be 1st 2nd or 3rd. Thanks anon.
>>224772879I plan to get asolod A1 by the end of the year, intensify my studies next year and find a job in a country where my TL is used OR emigrate without any preparation except some savings and just get any job there. The second option may also lead to me choosing a non-German speaking country but still learning idk Dutch or Swedish should be easier with basic German. I would like to live in a country for a while before returning home, meet people, soak in the culture, etc. That's why I set myself a limit of 5 years.
>>224773366FUCK my shit up senpai
>>224774001>>224773366man that story makes so much more sense now, I tried reading without having a dictionary on hand because we had no internet connection at the time...
>>224773951IMO if you're planning to live there 5 years is way too long.People say that the best aid is actually going to said countries, but honestly you just miss a lot without the tools the internet provides and knowing a base number of words. A1 is kind of useless honestly, I'd want to rush b1 at least so that I gained more out of every conversationA1 looks like>Miss most of everything>Limited vocab>Extremely limited survival conversaitonsB1>An ok level>Just can't talk about anything deep>Surface level conversations don't exactly have to be tailored for you to understandIf you're a1 they're gonna have to baby-fie it for you.
>>224755833That's way better as it actually correctly recognized the kanji, but even so it gives an incorrect phonetic reading for the word. Which is pretty funny since it's given in furigana. >>224773226No worries you can just call it 犰狳 from now on, it's just two characters so it's much easier to remember!
>>224774130>Dasypodidae Woah that's a cool name
>>224765126Tha leam gu feum thu a' "lock in"-adh.
>>224774097Right, so let's say A2. I don’t get too attached to these labels, I just use them as a rough guide. I was aiming for around 2000-3000 words, basic grammar and decent pronunciation >People say that the best aid is actually going to said countries, but honestly you just miss a lot without the tools the internet provides and knowing a base number of wordsI read somewhere once that going to your TL's country is a good idea, as long as you already have some foundations on which you can build quickly. Without that, you don’t even have the basics to start communicating. Which makes sense in my head.I don’t want to keep putting off my migration plans indefinitely either, because in the end I won’t go anywhere, and without a specific goal, I won’t bother to study
>>224775211Yeah I mean, you'll learn.Especially if you find some neighbor that you can talk with / practice with for a few hours. If your speaking isn't TOO broken this is possible, I don't know if a2 is good enough for that. For me the labels don't mean a lot because they're kind of bullshit, most people are far lower in ability than their label implies. Experience and repetition beats all of that, but it has to be experience that's at your level.>Without a specific goal I won't bother to studyNGMI at this rate, you could do your migration plan now even if you did 4+ hours of studying per day, which is entirely doable if half of those are easy input relaxation hours and the other half are more focused methods.
I think people just say to any vaguely European-sounding language not immediately identifiable to them, like French or Spanish, that it "sounds Slavic".
I see russian speech use the particle жe all the time but the only thing I know it as is "already" and I feel like idk how to use it really
>>224776582I learned it as "indeed" so to me its to emphasise whats being said
>>224774981>a' "lock in"-adh.Lmao. Tha thu ceart.
hindi = spanishmarathi = portuguesegujurati = italianbengali = frenchtelugu = romanian
someone please give me some copium for how alcohol consumption can help me in my language learning goals
>>224778853i do not want to enable or positively promote drinking but that whole angle of it loosening inhibitions could help if you've been wanting to practice talking in your tl but haven't been able to muster up the strength for it, whatever the reason may be. drink responsibly
>>224778853Just watch videos of them making wine and / or alcohol reviews.Learn about their traditional alcohols in your TL, read production methods and history, learn foods they pair with it.
>>224778950Strong Zero has been called “Japanese fluency in a can”
>>224778950you passed the shit test for a good fren, anon.>>224778987mmmm, yummy
>>224775413Unless I end up in (at? I'm not sure) a Bauer's labour camp, and I’d rather not. Ideally, I’d love to book a flight even for tomorrow, but I’d at least have to get a forklift licence or something so I don’t end up in the worst sort of job
>>224773366Are you saying armadillos don't actually climb trees? Do they eat acorns at least?
I suck at Latin, I need to lock in again and put in 3 or 4 hours per day into it like i used to
>>224776582>alreadyMaybe you're thinking about yжe? жe is mostly used for emphasis as the aussie said. I think it's usage is clearer when heard in actual conversation as you'll actually hear the emphasis, it's almost a filler word used to change the cadence of a sentence. Typically it comes after the word you want to emphasize, usually at the start of a sentence rather at the end. It can also mark similarity, like "oн cкaзaл этo c тeм жe тoнoм, кaк я" would be "he said it with the same tone as i" (i'm not sure if this is natural, perhaps some russian can provide more clarity)
>>224707155Am feadh 's a bha an robotair a' tearraideachadh an dealbh-camara nas faisge, tha e nas cinntiche gu bheil am fear a' sealltain dìreach air an camara.Chan eil an t-aodann na coigreach a chuir bodach air as fhearr, ach gu bheil leis gun rinneadh an dealbh-camara do a-staigh na stèisein.An-dèidh a leantainn nan ceuman-coise tro trannsachan iomadaidh, lorg e doras a — a-rèir na clàran an stèisein — cha bha ann gu bràth....gabham d' anail...
>>224780473This is literally the answer to all your language problems. Two days ago I sucked at spanish. Now I remember most of what I forgot and all it took me was 4 hours of reading per day + 2 hours of video watching, and I just naturally started speaking it in my head again.It's just so easy when you start hitting that 4 hour mark to learn languages, dabblecucks will never get it.
My grammar sucks so hard I am considering taking a grammar book and putting every concept, Declesion and Conjulgation into ANKI. I will be stopping of drilling vocab with ANKI and I will use it solely for grammar, I will boost my vocab by reading only.
>>224782130>I will be stopping of drillingI will stop drilling*
>>224782130>Boost my vocab by reading only You aren't ready for this, nobody except me will read for 3+ hours a day.
>>224707109What's the best language to learn in terms of academics or domain? For example>English: Everything>Chinese: Tech/Science>German: Finance/Banking>Japanese: Entertainment
Is there a fixed number of hours that if i push through them i can watch content about history and other social sciences meant for natives in either French, Portuguese or Italian? assuming im already fluent in English and Spanish? i dont want to be bilingual but at this point i get more entertained by watching videos about history (I know they are not the most reliable source of information) and I have yet to learn an employable skill and im not sure if listening to French, Portuguese or Spanish youtube lessons in the background daily while doing something else is enough for me to approach something close to fluency to be able to consume content that about social sciences eventually.I struggle to push through this not having a fixed timeline where i will be able to consume content meant for natives just by watching lessons on youtube or listening to a podcast on spotify.
>>224784632There's that paper from that guy who learnt to understand french ENTIRELY through input, I'd just take his figure and divide by two or three to account for your spanish knowledge. I'll be back in a moment.
>>224784632>French, Portuguese or italian youtube lesson*i meant italian.>>224784861thank you for your answer. I wasnt expecting to get any because i thought the thread had already reached the bump limit and a new thread will be started shortly after this.
>>224785025Bump limit? The thing in the bottom corner says 280 posts and I thought 300 was the bump limit? Anyway, the guys name is Peter Llewellyn Foley if you want to read the paper itself. It's not completely dry or technical like some other papers might be, half of it is more like journal entries. He reckons it took around 1300 to learn french off audio input with a base of native english and mandarin. It must have been a few months since I read through it thoroughly as opposed to the skimming I have been doing just now, but I recommend it as a read for people who like to argue about language learning on the internet.
>>224784632Just watch content with Language Reactor. Pause after every subtitle line and study the sentence, lookup the words, eventually you will start picking stuff up. Listening to stuff in the background is useless, you have to pay attention and put the effort to grasp and understand the language.
>>224783288German definitely has significant position as a language among academia: Biblical manuscripts, archaeology, innovative technology, pharmaceuticals, sociology, the list goes on.
>>224785163Bump limit is 310, actually.>>224778853It temporarily disables your frontal lobe and allows you to learn like a child again.>>22477322628-year-old-kun... you didn't do anything wrong. Hang in there!
>>224784632You could follow this https://d3usdtf030spqd.cloudfront.net/Language_Learning_Roadmap_by_Dreaming_Spanish.pdfAlthough as a native romance language speaker learning other romance languages, the timeline is definitely shorter.
>>224785618Oh it even says on the second page, just divide the number of hours by 2
>>224778853Sleep is essential for language learning, and alcohol fucks up your sleep.I still like to drink, but language learning actually has helped me reduce my drinking overall, because my language goals are important to me.
>>224785618>>224785246>>224785163Thank you guys for your advice, i already copied the information about the resources on google keep notes and ill make sure to take the time to read those resources.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5c9f9J4SEbump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azAzQ8ak2lQbump x2
My third language competency feelings range from feeling excited and blessed I can understand so much to feeling like low IQ retarded imbecile for not understanding jack shit sometimes.Anyone else like this?
>>224790899Mihi quoque
>>224790899Every single day, but little by little it shifts and the lows become rarerer and not quite as deep.
>>224784632There's no fixed timeline, you can languagefraud this one.I'd assume 100-200 hours for basic understanding in the language so that you can pick up sentence structure without working too hard. After that if you know the topic of the video you're watching beforehand you can look up common vocabulary for said topic, drill it, and then input in that specific area.200 hours to be safe, that is, to understand videos in your specialized topic that are native-level I would want this to be able to catch the subtle things they say. Maybe you could do it in less, but you're not really learning a language here, you're just learning how to watch a youtube video about tanks. Could even be lower if you can understand many italian words from knowing spanish.
>>224784632>>224785246This. Background listening is a major time waster until you're already near-native fluency and even then it's the least efficient way to learn anything.As a beginner you just have to put in the hours doing flash cards + actively listening and looking up words you don't understand, this alone cuts the time in 1/2 or 1/4 from just listening.
>>224780542>>224780542>"oн cкaзaл этo c тeм жe тoнoм, кaк я" would be "he said it with the same tone as i" (i'm not sure if this is natural, perhaps some russian can provide more clarity)I think it's passable but a native would probably say 'c тaким жe тoнoм, чтo и я'.
>>224785246>Listening to stuff in the background is uselessIt has to be done during a task where you can split your attention and the material has to be extremely easy or already familiar to you. So like if you’ve read a book, listening to the audiobook form of it over and over can help, but I wouldn’t count it as study time, or I would divide the time depending on how attentive I was.
Ok i will expose the extent of my retardation. By listening to it on the background i meant that i would listen to an italian lesson in the shower, but i just did it and it didnt work, even at full volume, the sound of the water would still undermine the sound of the italian lesson.ive already quit languages many times, my parents were under the impression that i was good at languages because ESL proficiency in Mexico is exceptionally low, but the truth is im a one hit wonder.The last time i quit portuguese, and before that it was Russian, and before that i quit German and I even tried and quit Dutch at A0 and maybe when i finish the book im reading ill go back to the library for a book in a latin alphabet script because the last time i picked up a book from the library it was russian and i got demotivated by the cyrillic alphabet.
I dont even enjoy ts i just want to leave bilingual hell because only learning english is associated with normies and with stemlords who only learn English as a pragmatic choice and have zero appreciation for human languages or cultures.
>>224796205>i meant that i would listen to an italian lesson in the showerGrim. Less serious than the "5 minutes in the McDonalds line" crowd.
Would you rather learn Ukrainian or Turkish?
>>224796205>>224796286Yeah this isn't gonna work, ultimately (and what worked for me) was whenever I "quit" I would realize this and double down, increase my study time to several hours a day, like this I've passed every block that I've had to make massive progress and make up for lost time.If you don't do this you're gonna be stuck in monolingual hell - you don't even get to call yourself bilingual since you never really learned english, you were just native with it in reality.It has taken me years to learn spanish because I would start and stop and I never even had a week-long anki streak, but when I saw that I stopped the next time I started I would grind hard for hours a day.>>224794849I've had "success" in this but it was brainless minecraft and related games, and even then it was at maybe 10% efficiency compared to just directly watching it. Too many people think they have cheat codes where they can screw around playing drag'n wash while learning a new language, it doesn't work like that. It really is just easier to study for 10 minutes than it is to listen to an ebook for 1 hour 40 minutes regularly every day, efficiency of time actually IS important for regular routines.Grinding like 2-10% efficient methods just isn't worth it, 20% efficient isn't even worth it when you're talking about a skill that takes thousands of hours.>>224796769I would only ever think about learning turkish if they had a high-paying girljob for me lined up already.Ukranian is a maybe, I'd rather learn polish or russian but it could be a cool hip language to learn since Ukraine is now a real country in the eyes of commoners.
>>224796839I just dont think it is that interesting to learn how to say hello in italian when i could be watching a video about napoleons campaign in Egypt but i will keep trying new strategies, failing, quitting, relapsing and maybe one day i will reach fluency in a foreign language.
>>224796839It’s really just more a way to turn my Crusader Kings 2 time into something not totally unproductive.
>>224797022>New strategiesYou just need to grind the basic one for like literally a month, you already speak spanish so grinding it (like 3 hours a day) on all the basic things is enough to get to a decent level of listening.
>>224796769Turkish. Both are equally useless to me, but Turkish at least seems more interesting grammatically.
Today makes one month of learning French! Coming back here to thank Serbbro for his help with getting started. You're a cool guy, thanks again
>>224798079Give us monthly updates please, anon. I wish I would have kept a log of what I understood so I could know when I finally understood certain levels of reading + videos.
>>224798079No problem. Keep up the good work!
A lot of best world-class classical musicians explicitly say they only practice 2 hours a day and that practicing more is potentially counterproductive. It's kind of like working out where you just need to do it very regularly in good form and intensity to get fit rather than needing hours and hours a day since overexercise just backfires. Meanwhile with language learning if you aren't spending 6+ hours a day every day for years on end you're never going to get to a high level.
>>224796205>>224796286You really don't sound serious about this. Like it seems you force yourself to use the TL rather then being starved of the content and mentality hiding behind the language barrier. For me there is no quiting, there is life long toil to reach nativity in my TLs and there are seasons when I have more time and money to invest into climbing the endless mountain and there are seasons when that is not the priority, but to quit is never an option as I FEEL like I already know the language in the future.Deal with why you are even learning it at all because that is the difference if the grind feels like dragging yourself through mud or eating ambrosia.
NEW>>224798920>>224798920>>224798920NEW
