What would be the logical conclusion of touhou?
>>51289449Every game has its own conclusion.Why would you want some definitive wrap on gensokyou forever when it is a work that encourages fans to keep imagining adventures by the characters?
>>51289449The Hakurei goddess as final/extra boss
>>51289453>Why would you want some definitive wrap on gensokyou forever when it is a work that encourages fans to keep imagining adventures by the characters?Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Zun could just finish things off and retire. That won't stop the fans from making more doujins or anything.
>>51289581It would if he kills Reimu or Alice opens another book and destroys reality again
>>51289449Marisa becomes a youkai and Reimu must choose whether to kill her and follow her duty as Gensokyo shrine maiden or spare her and change the relationship between humans and youkai forever. Meanwhile, in the far future Merry goes back in time to become Yukari.
>>51289449Okina and Yukari join forces to cause an incident because human are becoming too friendly with youkai so they have to reset Gensokyo to how it was before Reimu
>>51289449Touhou 17 bad ending where yatchie turns the heroines into sex slaves for the beast spirits for failing.
>>51289449Monotheism comes to Gensokyo and threatens the existence of the pagan religions by asserting that there is only one true God.
>>51290002Yeah, let's just say that Edo period people didn't exactly have a good relationship with Christians...
>>51289449Europe has its own Gensokyo that tries invading Japan's, Reimu and Marisa & Co. draw out a stalemate and everyone gets sloshed and pregnant
>>51289449I think wanting a grand finale in Touhou is missing the point pretty hard.
>>51290053nta but my interpretation wasn't necessarily a grand "finale" but a kind of bookend to just ZUN's works that opens more doors than it closes, kinda like the progression from PC98 to Windows. I like the idea here, >>51290038a bit wonky because of the amount of characters based on European mythology/folklore already but creating a whole new Phantasiapolis for fans and inheritors of the series to expand on I think would be a very fun and appropriate idea. We've already gone to the moon and hell, what's a gap across the pond?>>51290002Theological difference would be a great theme to work in, too, the old world is a big place with a lot of its own pagan religions that were replaced over time. Maybe one makes contact somehow with Gensokyo because of a new generation of more worldly-minded spiritualists who may be a little Japanophilic?
>>51290002Christianity wouldn't work out too well, the Christian tradition of denying all paranormal things other than god is going to look ridiculous to the human villagers and would get the missionaries immediately targeted by all local kami and youkai who are literally fighting for their lives. Going 'everything i don't like is the devil' would work out only slightly better. Islam would honestly have a better chance because their concept of the jinn would allow youkai to exist and a few kami could adjust to being benevolent or muslim jinn. Judaism doesn't really have a desire to convert pagans.
>>51290107>the Christian tradition of denying all paranormal things other than god (...) would get the missionaries immediately targeted by all local kami and youkai who are literally fighting for their lives.That's what would make it interesting: a threat to Gensokyo on a conceptual level. Iesua comes to Gensokyo to bring the light of salvation to the human villagers forcibly kept in the darkness. As she gains believers, the youkai and old gods become rapidly enfeebled. Reimu and Marisa (and Sanae too most likely) need to go and resolve the incident to end all incidents.>>51290081>a kind of bookend to just ZUN's works that opens more doors than it closesVery well said
>>51290107Folklore has Christianity begrudgingly being cool with the supernatural as long as they show reverence to Jesus and are not evil.With many of the supernatural that are friendly with Christianity turning around and being extremely hostile to other supernatural creatures especially if they harm humansThe sea bishop or bishop-fish was a type of sea monster reported in the 16th century. According to legend, it was taken to the King of Poland, who wished to keep it. It was also shown to a group of Catholic bishops, to whom the bishop-fish gestured, appealing to be released. They granted its wish, at which point it made the sign of the cross and disappeared into the sea.There is also the legend of Pope Sylvester II and 'Meridiana' the Succubus.Pressine a powerful fae and some Scottish kingthe story of Melusine who married a French king.Thiess of Kaltenbrun a supposed werewolf who would lead invasions into hell with an army of werewolves to beat up demonsIf Vlad III was really Dracula then he was a Christian Vampire, responding to the Calling of Crusade agains the Ottomans by Pope Pius IISo it would be about a bunch of Western monsters attacking hostile yokai and kami while trying to convert the humans to Christianity. Kasen might even agree with them but not like their methods
Reimu's religion is revealed to be Bad Religion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT5_3a2sekoPretend picrel is reimu.
>>51290107yeah christianity doesn't work, but neither would judaism or islam, because they are objectively wrong in the touhou universe. retards always spam shit like "oh everyone instantly converts to worshipping a jew and all youkai lose their powers!!", without understanding neither touhou lore nor what makes a story good
>>51290635>objectively wrong in the touhou universe.The touhou universe has youkai using humans villagers as cattle because their fear keeps them from fading out of existence. It's a place where the forgotten go and why it was created because it couldn't compete with the outside world.Then you got the lunarians being terrified of the Americans.
>>51289449Yukari convinces Marisa to become a youkai. Marisa then wreaks havoc. Reimu and Mamizou have to stop her.
Reimu gets pregnant and the final game is about her daughter first incident
No grand finale, but after the last game, a flash forward far into the future showing Kaguya and Mokou lazily exchanging punches in the void, while Eirin sits in the corner and masturbates to the last surviving yaoi doujin.
>>51289449Lonely degen otaku in the outside world meme open their monstegirl portals and inadvertently destroy gensokyo. The fallout from this forces all unmarried youkai to adapt and Yukari eventually gives up and reincarnates into Merry.
>>51290758I get the feeling we've seen this before...
>>51290804>Kills man for doing thing>Goes her way to bend the rules to save woman who also did thing
>>51290814Mamizou stepped in to save her girlfriend
>>51290660Don't forget Reimu's whole role it to enforce the status quo and keep everyone in line. She doesn't care about the human village she just wants donations and to be left alone.
>>51290660>The touhou universe has youkai using humans villagers as cattle because their fear keeps them from fading out of existence.Also it has been shown that its nothing but a justified conclusion as the humans really want the youkais gone
>>51290758>and Mamizouthis is probably what's wrong with modern touhou canon right now, She is this close from being a permanent tertiary playable character but is not in more games probably because ZUN is afraid of a aya/sanae is ZUN's girlfriend repeat
>>51290107>>51290011>>51290227On the other hand, do they really have a choice? The villagers are the descendants to the Ezo traditionalist spirit which ended up getting thwarted by the Empire of Japan embracing enlightenment eventually leading to Gensokyo's creation and the beginning of the decline of all things mystical: in every way, they are in the same boat as the youkai and probably know it on a cultural level.As schizophrenic as the One True God®'s followers are, together they are the only group capable of fighting the Outside World's rationalism on its own terms, offering the remote possibility of a future beyond being confined to a ever-shrinking bubble. Granted, there is an equal (if not more likely) chance the many-headed serpent would cripple or destroy the ailing patient in between bouts of fighting with itself entirely incidentally... But doesn't that sound like the contract between humans and youkai existing already?
>>51290635You're correct, but not in the way you think. Objectively, all the gods you see in Touhou have been defeated by the prowess of the outside world's society; beaten by the Japanese Empire who in turn was beaten by the secular west. In that respect, the monothiests were right in claiming they were nothing more than charlatans who were using magic tricks to elevate themselves above men far beyond what they could collectively sustain. What the monothiests got wrong was thinking that humanity would intrinsically align with them given enough time; they end up eventually becoming less than a footnote by the time of the Sealing Club series, and probably stabbed themselves in the feet several times along the way getting there.
>>51290002The only good thing in all of this is that this implies that christcuckery finally fell out of favor in the outside world and was forgotten.
>>51289449Inherent flaws in human village as a society causes a leader to rise up, cast down the Youkai sages, and either destroy the barrier or create a new better Gensokyo more alike to the one described in Pmiss or PCB prologue.
>>51291392>The villagers are the descendants to the Ezo traditionalistWhat? No. They are decendant of youkai hunters. They aren't tradititionalists, they are futurists fighting for a world free of myths.
>>51291392>offering the remote possibility of a future beyond being confined to a ever-shrinking bubble.Their idea of a future is a evil overlord being resurected, wiping out human civilization, and enslaving the surviviors for all eternity by turning them into livestock.
>>51291470>and enslaving the surviviors for all eternity by turning them into livestock.Kind of a reach because if the humans die everything else also dies with it, including this future empire
>>51291470The Monotheists (at least, the true believers who aren't just in it for material gain) want to get as many people into Heaven as possible as they are vaguely aware something unpleasant is awaiting at the end of time, even if that thing is just entropy doing fucky things to the human mind after material reality breaks down. In the context of Touhou, it's easier to think of them as akin to Buddhists or Taotists, only they believe the Tao/Enlightenment is a sentient force. Their ability to articulate that message is mixed, yet they have been more successful than any of the other vectors toward enlightenment in reaching a wider audience. They have possibly managed to successfully covert other gods into their movement like the Finnish and parts of the Irish pantheon, and effectively run multiple states which the Outside World's society relies on to function. Though decentralized and fighting themselves more often than outside threats to their philosophy, by the early to mid 21st century in which Touhou takes place, they are strong.Admittedly, even the nicest sects of Christianity would seem more than a little insane to the average human villager, as they see nothing wrong with eating human flesh under the right context, while the Jews and Muslims are adherent to their codes and laws on a level that would come across as a geas, all concepts that make them seem akin to youkai: Saint Nicolas is perceived as one by the average denizen of Gensokyo based on the description they have on hand!
>>51291467They are descendant in a spiritual, rather than literal sense. Gensokyo's entire system relies on the average villager functioning like a pre-Meiji peasant, otherwise they'd merely spread the spiritual decay ailing their outside counterparts. Compared to their youkai-slaying forebears, they are largely unrecognizable.
>>51289948On this subject, what is the best bad ending in the series, and which one is the worst?
>>51291518>Gensokyo's entire system relies on the average villager functioning like a pre-Meiji peasant,That's the thing though: They aren't. Not only are they descendant from people who are not pre-Meiji peasants, they are living a life totally unlike actual peasants. They have no lord, no Samurai class, nothing. It's one of those inherent contradictions in the issue that will cause the entire thing to collapse in on itself.
>>51291516>In the context of Touhou, it's easier to think of them as akin to Buddhists or Taotists, only they believe the Tao/Enlightenment is a sentient force.I generally find them closer to a JRPG villain. Their goal isn't enlightenment, it's the exact opposite. A total reversal to being mindless animals. It's also pretty close to Gensokyo as it exists. A world ruled by memes where people are slaves.
>>51291650They're trying to open up heavenly salvation to the masses and openly challenging the rationalists who want to reduce human life into tools that are to be disposed of when their service life runs out. They just also happen to be corrupt themselves. And insanely balkanized.
>>51291679Heavenly salvation to me sounds a lot like being ruled over by Sauron.
>>51291687Bluntly, it's learning to exist without falling into vice and sin, broadly comparable to the Buddhist detachment of earthly desires or the life of a Hermit. And to the prospect of the average individual, that kind of ascetic living isn't interesting at all and easy to mock and parody as backward or paranoid, yet it also ensures that those vices hold no power over the few who can master that level of earthly separation.
>>51291712It's a cute idea in theory but I think centuries of being a central part of medieval propaganda to support the divine rights of the nobility has largely rendered it free of any real spirituality. That's not even getting into the protestant/catholic schism...
>>51291722I stress the words "few" and "corrupt": their common fate as states warring over barren sand and officials frightened to gaze at their own shadows is profoundly unfortunate, yet the underlying message is one of benevolence, and through their presence a crafty few who wouldn't otherwise may find salvation in between the debauchery.>"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?"It makes for a cynical irony that the only things Gensokyo really knows about Christians (and the other Monothiests by extension) is that they like to give away presents during Christmas and Valentines, making themselves appear to be materialists in the extreme. And that apparently appeals to sectors of the local youkai population that are nothing but spirit at their core, to the point Byakuren does very un-Buddhist things like attempting to provide absolution, and Miko's remark on Christ's resurrection most accurately describes her own.
>>51290038>everyone gets sloshed and pregnant
>>51289449The Gensokyo is an eternal land of lore and fantasy.The conclusion of "canon" (whatever the fuck it truly means) Touhou will come with inevitable death of ZUN, albeit there's non-zero chance that someone will want to pick up the mantle and continue his work.But as a doujin series it will live for as long as people will remember and create their own 2hu shit.
>>51289581>ZUN could just finish things off and retireHe did with Imperishable Night. Everything afterwards has been only for fun.
>>51292350>Final scene in the series is Reisen complaining to Kaguya because she ate her last meatball.
>>51292227>albeit there's non-zero chance that someone will want to pick up the mantle and continue his work.I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of his kids keep it going after ZUN dies or retires.
>>51291398>secular west.you mean Islamic west. islam is growing rapidly and atheism and secularism is declining in the west
>>51289564Mima will actually be the final boss
>>51292833Paizuri will be the final boss
>>51292839The final game will just be a paizuri gauntlet for a Sinsack with Urumi as the final boss, or Eirin.
>>51292689Even crazier the secular are promoting and protecting islam in the name of diversity and multiculturalism. Calling anyone that disagrees with them islamophobic, bigots, far right and white supremacist. Bizarre world
>>51293267Those """secularists""" are jews, anon.
>>51290002>>51291392Smash 2hu Jesus btw
>>51290403I suddenly realize that Auxiliary Gargoyles (with affinity with water) would make decent heavy shock infantry bodyguards for vampire hunters, like a flying high-pressure police Hydrant
>>51290002This pic doesn't make any sense. in touhou there is no budda2hu, mohammad2hu, laozi2hu, jade emperor2hu, amaterasu2hu, shiva2hu, vishnu2hu, or zeus2hu.
>>51294119>budda2huWell to be fair Jesus and Buddha aren't really comparable. In Christianity Jesus is venerated, in Buddhism Buddha is viewed as more of a ideal to follow than anything else. Buddhism literally teaches that you shouldn't get attached to Buddha, the whole "If you meet a Buddha, kill the Buddha." thing.
>>51294119>>51294180I feel out of all of them, buddha2hu has the best chance
>>51294180I'm just saying in touhou shou is the avatar of bishamonten. bishamonten was around the temple most of the time, which made the youkai scared of going to the temple. byakuren came up with a plan to introduce shou, the most straightforward and honest youkai to bishamonten on the mountain and in exchange, to gather faith. bishamonten quietly took shou as his disciple and avatar but bishamonten doesn't fully trust shou, he assigned his helper nazrin to watch shou. this guy is physically is visiting myouren temple. Then you have others like seiga getting physically attacked by suiki, the leader of the water oni kishin chief from hell who was trying to drag her to hell and in the crossfire destroyed the kappa's base. then there is tenma, the supreme chief of all tengu on youkai mountain who megumu reports too.
>>51294286It bothers me that we still haven't seen Tenma on-screen yet.
>>51294286Yeah many forget bishamonten assigned nazrin to keep tabs on shou and other youkai at the myouren temple.
>>51297497She's the glue that keeps the whole thing together in the shadows
>>51289449Mystic Square
>>51297497>to keep tabs on shou and other youkai at the myouren temple.This also includes Byakuren as well too. The necromancer might be the leader at the temple, but as far as actual hierarchy goes, Nazrin is the higher up around. Kind of how lower ranked soldiers can give orders to their betters when the right circumstances are met.
>>51306482I would bet money that Byakuren secretly seethes at this.
>>51289449That the whole series is (somehow) a prequel to Len'en.
>>51294180It largely boils down to the argument on whether relationships count as material attachments or not.
>>51291169>this is probably what's wrong with modern touhou canon right nowI think creating the games in service to things like "lore" and "canon" is the real problem and Mamizou is just a symptom of that.
>>51314316Relationships are definitely a form of attachments. That quote "if you meet a Buddha kill the Buddha" also includes "...if you meet your ancestors, kill your ancestors; if you meet your descendants, kill your descendants..." This obviously isn't meant literally, but in the sense that you have to sever your attachment to them.
>>51314471The buddhist form of enlightenment always sat slightly wrong with me for the fact it's effectively an attempt to achieve a factory reset of the soul; getting rid of worldly fetters is well and all, but without any social connections to define someone by and through, they're effectively no different from the unborn. It achieves the goal of excising someone from vices, yet the end result has no defining features beyond being another interchangeable buddha with the rest. Come the end of time to erase all material history, they'll be nothing but faceless cogs of unlimited potential, in the same way a startup has unlimited potential.
>>51314570You're definitely misinterpreting the words here, to not be attached to someone isn't the same as having no relationships at all. The meaning of attachment in this context is more like "the ability to exert power on one another", it's essentially saying that you shouldn't be dependent on anything besides yourself.
>>51289449A plague wipes out the human village and the Yokai quickly starve to death.The end.
>>51314593Gee, he could've made that a little more obvious. And here I was thinking this was like a Jedi thing
Zun dies of a pulmonary embolism and we simply never get another touhou game ever again
>>51290011It's because tokugawa oppressed them
This discussion makes me want to read a bookI don't even like manga/anime anymoreI want a good book about folklore/religion/spirituality in japan (and asia)
>>51297497She looks like she wants his cock
>>51289449Gensokyo's nuclear holocaust and Gojira Reimu
>>51315421Zun will die after making the hottest 2hu from the mega erection
>>51322209Too late, Kasen already exists
>>51289564>the Hakurei goddess is SinGyokuWould you clap?
