Post only lunarians
Nephew
>>51354542What the hell is that body angle
>>51354632kys yurinigger
They could never make me hate moonies
>>51357018im a misanthropic gnostic so i agree with tsukuyomi's ideology
>>51354542>>51354548MOON BOOTY IS BEST BOOTY
>First Genso-Lunar war colorized
>Hey Eirin, maybe NOT killing everyone that's an inconvenience to you is a valid course of action
>>51361702That's what makes makes my wife special though
How do moonie haters feel about Eirin? You didn't directly see it, but the Doc killed a lot of Lunarians before IN.
>>51361803She got out of the moon, but you can't put the moon out of her. Still actively a sociopath and only really restrained by her loyalty to Kaguya. Remember that Eirin was actually one of the Lunar Capital's founders and that their laws, beliefs and skeletons in the closer were in all likelihood, perpetuated by Eirin herself.Hilariously enough, despite being the current face of the Lunarians, the Watatsuki Sisters have consistently shown a far stronger moral compass and empathy for life than Eirin. In their backstory, they actually treated Urashima Taro quite well and when he felt homesick, they just wanted to send him back home with no frills. That whole accelerating to old age and dying shortly after part that happened later? That was something Eirin orchestrated without their consent. In SSiB, they had every right to kill everyone there as they were quite literally invaders, but they just let everyone go home with a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile, just a bit earlier in Gensokyo, Eirin was contemplating killing Patchy. And in FW, Toyohime was more or less implied to be working against the Lunarians themselves to free Yuiman. Indicating that she actually feels guilty for what the moon has done to Yuiman. Hell, even looking at Sagume, during LoLK, she was way too eager to abandon mass genocide in favor of a more peaceful alternative of settling the incident. All the current Lunarians we know of seem to be actually fighting the sociopathic reputation of the moon. Meanwhile, in every moon related incident, we end up finding out that Eirin was also orchestrating shit from behind the scenes while sitting on her fat ass in Eientei. Eirin is probably a Lunar Boomer that is getting disappointed at there being more and more younger Lunarians getting caught up with this gay "empathy" and "maybe we shouldn't just kill everyone" ways of thinking.
>>51361835Sorry, what was that? I read "Eirin's fat ass" and my brain just....
>If I didn't raise you from birth, then I'm not interested.
>>51361926It's the other way around. If you don't groom them from birth, they'll inevitably reject you for being a hideous monstrosity unworthy of love.
Throw me into the moon and I come back as a father.
Lore question: wiki says lunarians are closer to being hermits or celestials than being ordinary humans, does that imply they're trying to imitate the celestial realm?
>>51362749If anything, its the reverse. Hermits and Celestials are budget Lunarians.Lunarians are largely composed of the higher ranked deities in Shinto. They have naturally high divine pedigrees and better base stats than just about most of everyone. Hermits and Celestials are effectively just normal humans that grinded enough to be ascended beings.Though if you mean the Lunar Capital itself rather than the Lunarians, then its technically correct that they're imitating heaven I guess? Heaven has been around since forever, but the Lunar Capital is like a proto-Gensokyo in that the group of gods that would eventually become known as Lunarians tried making their own artificial isolated paradise in the moon because they got tired of all the dumbfuckery and impurity of the earth.
>>51362859>Hermits and Celestials are effectively just normal humans that grinded enough to be ascended beings.Hermits sure. They're mortals that put in the effort to get enlightened and shit. But the worth of a Celestial is diminished since apparently you can buy your way into Heaven or get in if you have the right connections. Yukari thinks Heaven and the Celestials are a bunch of frauds for good reason.
>>51362859>Lunarians are largely composed of the higher ranked deities in Shinto.Actua deities that moved to the Moon are actually a very small percentage of the total population, I think. Most lunarians were/descend from humans, who either served the mentioned gods, or were hermits that sympathized with lord Tsukuyomi's views. So you can find lunarians (gods), and lunarians (human).
>>51362909Also, it's interesting that lunarians (and celestials) are somewhat classified as humans. Hermits are understandable, and even then they are pushing it, but those two are a little bit too unaligned with human experience.
>>51362859The Celestials' Heaven was canonically established by pulling out a massive keystone before Eirin was even born, and also number deities amongst them. There's no indication that they require anything from Earth to live their idyllic lives.The gods of Takamagahara that would eventually move to the Moon could not separate themselves from the kegare on Earth and had to flee to the Moon out of fear, reliant on at least one facility on Earth to sustain their existence.The Lunarians are absolutely presented as being inferior Celestials, rather than the other way around.
>>51362977Celestials don't really seem to be that fancy since apparently, having an "I know a guy" connection or literal nepotism is enough to elevate you into being one. Says a lot that top moon hater Yukari seems to have better opinions on Lunarians than Heaven or the Celestials.
A Japanese Goblin literally forced her way into Heaven and claimed some land there. Celestials are a joke. An average Hermit's Senkai has better privacy and security than Heaven.
>>51362996I think it's worth noting that Touhou's Heaven is a buddhist-type one rather than an abrahamic-type.
>>51363297Now that you mention that, buddhists have noted that the abrahamaic good afterlife is pretty much just becoming a celestial, which is an incomplete path for them. YHWH gives tickets to people for obeying him, which plays into the "I know somebody" way to enter Touhou's Heaven. Of course, Heaven has been closed for a long time now in the setting, so in-universe abrahamism is a huge scam.
>>51362996>Celestials are a jokeBased. Fuck them. Humanity will conquer their overrated Podunk.
>>51363487>Of course, Heaven has been closed for a long time now in the settingThat was just a false statement about the realm being overcrowded so the celestials can hog up the place all for themselves, but in truth anyone can claim a piece of it for themselves.>>51363533>Humanity will conquer their overrated Podunk.Humanity hasn't even been able to discover and conquer Gensokyo, let alone Heaven.
>>51363866Yeah, they can claim a piece if they beat the celestial owning that part of Heaven. Unless the celestial is playing around and doesn't care, like when Suika fought Tenshi, no human is beating a celestial in a fight.
>>51362977>The Lunarians are absolutely presented as being inferior Celestials, rather than the other way around.Lunarians had to build their kingdom from scratch and have the most advanced technology, Celestials mostly had to wait for divine permission to earn their Heaven, Lunarians are more impressive in my opinion
>>51362926It's more about the nature of the thing. Humans have souls, which are unique to them (per PMiSS, only humans can leave behind ghosts), as well as bodies of flesh. They're not purely spiritual beings like kami or embodied balls of belief like youkai. It has to be assumed that training as a Hermit, ascending as a Celestial or harrumphing hard enough to turn Lunarian doesn't change that fundamental nature.
>>51363970Humans can become youkai, has ZUN ever stated whether they require belief too or if the rules apply differently to them?
>>51363998Outright? I don't think so. Eiki's dialogue in PoFV implies that youkai can cross the Sanzu (and presumably be judged/reincarnated) but it is extremely unlikely due to the way they carry themselves in life.Anyway, the point is that Celestials and Lunarians are fundamentally the same base species as humans, except with major physical buffs.
>>51362986The only time we know that happened is the Hinanawi family being rewarded for their devoted servitude to the Nawi by being allowed into Heaven and ascending as Celestials. It's clearly not done as some cheap nepotistic favor; Chiko may have been too young to have been involved with it, but it's clear the family worked hard and earnestly and the Celestial leadership wanted to reward their efforts.And it's clearly not a common event, either, since other Celestials looked down on the Hinanawi and saw them as delinquents for it, which is an important part of Tenshi's backstory.>>51362996That just shows how carefree and easygoing the Celestials are. The Lunarians would've pulled the yigger alarm the moment Suika set foot on the moon, but the Lunarians aren't worried in the slightest about the occasional visitor.>>51363907The Celestials built Heaven from scratch, too. It doesn't manifest out of nowhere, they pulled out a massive keystone and established their lives there.There's no indication they use much in the way of technology, but their bodies impossibly durable and strong, they're highly knowledgeable, naturally immensely lucky to the point they're not even affected by a misfortune's god disastrous misfortune, and well-versed in magic to the point of casually breaking a high-level oni's magic circle.And that's just speaking of Tenshi, a delinquent amongst them and presumably paled in comparison to those who do take things seriously.The Lunarians have some busted abilities, but their baseline abilities aren't on par with what little we see of Celestials, and they are heavily reliant on tech to keep their capital running, while being fearful of people like Okuninushi and Takeminakata, who they had to seal away because of how threatened they felt by them, and in general, people tend to be dismissive of the Lunar Capital and see it as more or less a fake paradise built on shaky foundations, while the Celestials are at most depicted as kinda pricks (and only really by Yukari, making it pretty questionable), but nobody is ever dismissive of Heaven as a whole. It's clearly in a way better position than the Lunar Capital.
if celestials and lunarians are similar, and celestials are divine beings (even though they aren't native gods, they aren't the god of anything in particular), then i'd say that the lunarians can be both ascended humans and gods, in the sense that they ascended to a divine statealso aren't the moon and heaven pretty close anyway? if there are multiple heavens, wouldn't the moon be tsukuyomi's heaven?
>>51364069The only connections I can think of is that both Celestials and Lunarians seem to like eating peaches and also a theory about Iku being a messenger from the Moon since the Dragon Palace was supposedly in it.
>>51363970Good interpretation, but celestials are notably listed as "former humans", implying that they left their humanity behind. Same could also be applied to lunarians.
Celestials are funny because they're soul hobos in the reincarnation cycle that Shinigami come to collect all the time, but they just shout Shinigami off. They're quite literally squatters that actively deny the system and a massive pain in the ass for the Shinigami that are just trying to do their fucking job.>>51364064>It's clearly in a way better position than the Lunar Capital.Good PR I guess. From what we've seen in Touhou, Heaven is essentially a paradise for bums. We don't really see any kind of formal society there. Everyone just plays around all day. And they're all apparently kind of pricks. PMiSS states the Celestials like coming down to the mortal realm, fuck with mortals to have a laugh, and then fuck off back to Heaven without ever explaining themselves. They also actively lie and try to prevent new people from joining their club while looking down on some of their own kind for not being REAL Celestials (tm). They sniff their own asses so much but they can't even bother putting in some basic security to their fancy private club. It's no wonder Yukari doesn't think very well of them.But at the end of the day, there is still many that view heaven favourably because there is definitely some appeal in a Paradise where you can just goof off all day and act like you're better than everyone else. The current image of Heaven is that its the end reward of a good life where you're given the right to be a heavenly bum and asshole.On the other hand, the Lunar Capital was founded by people and gods that grew misanthropic and wanted nothing to do with the Earth anymore. It's a fully functional society where everyone has role to play and they aren't just scratching their ass all day. It generally has bad PR thanks to their founding principles being: "We hate all of you and want nothing to do with you." and the fact that they actually do take active (and sometimes excessive) measures to protect and guard their own kind. But ironically, as long as you don't antagonize them and try to overstay your welcome, the Lunar Capital is shown to actually not mind entertaining guests and letting them stay for a while. tl;drHeaven is a "This is a wonderful paradise that anyone can eventually get to if they work hard enough (lmao not really. Also I hope you like fighting off Shinigami debt collectors)." kind of place.Lunar Capital is a "No. Fuck off. This is just for our own kind. But eh, if you behave I guess we can tolerate some tourism." kind of place.
>>51364488In that regard, while the Lunar Capital and Lunarians are often against Yukari's own goals and ambitions, she seems to at least have some kind of respect for them. Meanwhile, the hypocrisy of Heaven probably really rubs Yukari off the wrong way.
I get the deal with Hourais since they effectively tore themselves away from the reincarnation cycle and are no longer under the jurisdiction of Shinigami. But what makes Celestial immortality different from Hermit or Lunarian immortality? Shinigami don't seem to mind the latter two, but they seethe about Celestials.
>>51364528Not sure how Hermits work, but Lunarians aren't really immortal. The Lunarian Capital is a special domain they made themselves where time is stopped and impurity is minimized. And while they're strong, they're not actually immortal. Beat a Lunarian in a fight and bash their heads in, and they'll die just fine. In a sense Lunarians are just stronger than normal folk that live in a giant fridge on the moon.From what I understand, Celestials are special folk that get an exception to the system and a free pass to eternal NEEThood and opulence while getting actual immortality for the most part. Shinigami hate this and they do actually have the power to inflict death on them, but Celestials are also pretty strong and more often than not, can fight Shinigami off.
>>51364488>>51364528>>51364553The fact that Hecatia seems more engaged in opposing the Lunarians than the Celestials should tell you something about which one the higher-ups in Hell care about, Shinigami are just middle-managers, that the Goddess of Hell herself is invested in opposing the Lunar Capital means it is a more blatant offense to Hell's views and purpose.
>>51364633And that's why Hecatia sucks. She turns a blind eye to domains that should actually be under her jurisdiction and is more concerned about bothering people that she doesn't like. And in the first place, Hecatia doesn't really seem to give much of a fuck to her godly duties anyway.Hecatia is a chaosfag. She doesn't like Lunarians being lawfags plus she kind of has a grudge with what Houyi did to Apollo. Her beef with the Lunarians is a personal thing rather than a duty thing.
>ZUN said he has no intention of making Yorihime appear in any gameIt's so lunarover
>>51361835>All the current Lunarians we know of seem to be actually fighting the sociopathic reputation of the moon. Meanwhile, in every moon related incident, we end up finding out that Eirin was also orchestrating shit from behind the scenes while sitting on her fat ass in Eientei.That also means that they're not so attached to their new morals that they won't accept whatever Eirin wants to do.
>>51365744Is this just the old statement that got broken as of FW, or did he say something new in one of those drunken streams again?Either way, why haven't people learned not to take any of this madman's ramblings seriously. We already had many "X won't happen" only for it to happen later on scenarios from him.
>>51366789Toyohime is yukari tier, Yorohime is beyond that
Lunarians-Celestials War when?
Im the only one here who unironically agree with the lunarians' belief that earth (specifically the outside world) is trash, I don't get why we're supposed to dislike them.
>>51368955They're chink-coded.
>>51354542Yorihime-sama is made for humiliation and defeat!
>>51368955They fuck with the one part that looks remotedly decent to live (gensokyo) that is why
looooonarian
Too many people swerve into the big tiddy wholesome nurse chungus depiction of Eirin. So I always love it when an artist still makes the moonie in Eirin bleed out and show that she does in fact still hate filthy impure earthlings.
>>51368958They're definitely more hitler with the whole purity thing.
>>51372285It's Shinto purity, not Eugenics purity.Some esoteric spiritual shit going on here, but the simplest tl;dr is that its not "sin" (albeit its tangentially related) and more of one's state of being. Basically, being alive makes you predisposed to being "impure", and it's one being impure that can eventually lead to bad and retarded shit happening. That's why they put a stasis field on the moon's flow of time. Their clock being stopped effectively made them metaphysically "dead" and thus stops impurity in its tracks.Ironically, you'd think they'd love to jump to being immortal, but that's a bad thing to their beliefs too. Becoming Hourai Immortal effectively supercharges you with giga super duper life. And thus, very very impure. That's why Kaguya is a top criminal on the moon.Moonies are nutjobs that hate the natural flow of life, but also hate completely breaking life itself through turning into true immortals. So they settle on the weird middle ground of just freezing their own life itself.
>>51372349That's actually quite interesting I wouldn't have known that. The whole moon rabbit underclass thing is still a little euginicy to me, but I get what you mean by their view of purity being more of a stasis concept. Kind of like how one would get radiation poisoning. Now that I think about it, why would they want to retrieve Kaguya pre hourai'ng then? Wouldn't she already be too affected by the earth?
Post Yorihime's butt NOW
>>51372410I guess it would be post hourai'ng
>>51372410>The whole moon rabbit underclass thing is still a little euginicy to meMoon Rabbits are much more predisposed to having no attachments and being a cowardly bums. The whole atmosphere of stasis in the moon just kind of makes them have no real concept of loyalty or purpose. That's why Yorihime goes drill instructor hard on the moon rabbits. And besides, In SSiB we see the moon rabbits live in a relatively urbanized and modern-ish town. So their moon duties aside, they probably have better quality of life than your average Earth Rabbit of Gensokyo Youkai. Hell, even Reisen still makes snide comments on how uncivilized and ass backwards Gensokyo can be compared to her time on the moon.On a more interesting note. This particular exchange in SSiB always got me wondering. In Touhou, the Lunar Capital was presumably founded by the Amatsukami (really quick tldr, there are basically two major factions of Shinto Gods: the Amatsukami [Heavenly Gods] and Kunitsukami [Earthly Gods]), but Toyohime and Yorihime's namesake/inspirations in Shinto mythos were actually Kunitsukami. Although they did eventually marry Amatsukami. In Touhou canon, did they just go with the Amatsukami side of the family they married into when they left for the moon? It's peculiar that SSiB dedicated a page to state their old connection to the ocean. Because remember, the father of their namesake was Watatsumi, a Sea Dragon Ocean God and one of the big honcho Kunitsukami.Maybe the sisters still haven't fully let go of their origins as Kunitsukami and have fondness for the earth. They're certainly one of the nicer Lunarians around and aren't as gung-ho about the REEEEEE FUCK IMPURITY mindset as some of their peers.
>>51372415>Post Yorihime's butt NOWHer butt is only for her Nephew.>>51372446The Lunar Capital was explicitly founded by Tsukuyomi. And its a nebulous description, but it was said that Tsukuyomi took gods and people that symphatized with his(?) beliefs there. So I think its fair to assume that the Lunar Capital isn't all Amatsukami. Some Kunitsukami likely joined in too (case in point: the Watatsuki sisters) and probably some of their mortal followers as well.Touhou isn't 1:1 with its mythological inspirations, but it often still bases its lore on it albeit with their own spin. Its worth noting that Tamayorihime (Yorihime's inspiration) actually lost one of her sons during the founding wars in Japanese mythology. Grief ridden mothers aren't new to Touhou. And the pain of losing one of her sons to war probably made her sympathize with Tsukuyomi's belief of wanting a home free from impurity.Impurity is a hard to pin down concept in Shinto, but it often draws from pain, death, suffering and all that juju stuff. And all those only happen in the first place because one is alive. Maybe Junko and Yorihime aren't too different. One dealt with the pain of loss by sublimating all of her existence into raw rage. The other dealt with it by abandoning what makes her alive and freezing her own existence in stasis.
>>51372484>it was said that Tsukuyomi took gods and people that symphatized with his(?) beliefs there.CiLR actually states that he only took his most trusted relatives, which goes against that idea. We can assume that he made exceptions for those with extremely useful abilities like Iwanagahime, but he wouldn't be taking random Kunitsukami with him just because they also wanted to flee to the moon.
>>51372410>Wouldn't she already be too affected by the earth?Nothing a little bit of spins from the Lunar washing machine of purification can't fix.I don't think this was brought up in the Touhou version of the Tale of the Bamboo cutter's events. But some versions of the tale had the Moon people put a divine robe on Kaguyahime after retrieving her. The moment Kaguyahime put on that robe, all her memories, compassion for and sentiments for the earth were purged and she became a "pure" being again. It's pretty much a brainwashing machine and honestly kinda fucked up.In the Touhou version of the events, maybe the moon entourage sent to retrieve Kaguya had a similar device. You can even extrapolate some headcanon here and assume that the plan to brainwash Kaguya is finally what made Eirin snap and kill everyone involved in her case. There's actually a similar precedent in FW too. Remember, the moon brainwashed Yuiman to do their bidding. And throughout the game, Toyohime was actually playing both teams and seems to have had the goal of ultimately freeing Yuiman from the moon's control. Even if she still acted like a smug Lunarian throughout it. But if they really had a similar device prepared for Kaguya, then it's only natural that one of Eirin's students would also have a distaste for brainwashing.>>51372509>he only took his most trusted relatives>he wouldn't be taking random Kunitsukami I mean, depending on the timeframe of the Lunar Capital's founding. There would be a point where quite a bit of the Kunitsukami would technically be his relatives as quite a bit of marrying between the two groups would've happened.
>>51372522>There would be a point where quite a bit of the Kunitsukami would technically be his relatives as quite a bit of marrying between the two groups would've happened.Granted, but even so, they make a very strong distinction between Amatsu and Kunitsu, so it's unlikely he'd see them as actual close relatives, especially since it explicitly specifies his most trusted relatives instead of relatives in general.>You can even extrapolate some headcanon here and assume that the plan to brainwash Kaguya is finally what made Eirin snap and kill everyone involved in her case.Somehow I doubt Eirin has any issues with brainwashing people, and she was probably involved with setting up Yuiman, too, given her deep involvement in the founding of the Lunar Capital and how she's familiar with the Asama Joue facility to the extent she can even avoid its guardian. Her decision to flee with Kaguya is mostly because of the guilt she feels over not being punished and the awareness that Kaguya would never be able to live a normal life on the moon again, but if she had been exiled from the onset alongside Kaguya, they probably would've gone back eventually.
>>51372349>Becoming Hourai Immortal effectively supercharges you with giga super duper life. And thus, very very impure. That's why Kaguya is a top criminal on the moon.Honestly, I'm not sure that's actually true. Maybe it does generate some kegare, but I doubt it's actually significant, and would be quite manageable, and there's just a lot about that story that doesn't check out.It's important to remember that the Lunarians keep the truth behind Jouga hidden, even from their own people. Junko is one of the Capital's greatest secrets, only known to a handful of their leaders but kept a secret from the general population, despite being the greatest actual threat to the Lunar Capital. Likewise, the whole story with the Moon Rabbits and their mochi-pounding to atone for Jouga's sin has a big hole in it. Even though they're ostensibly attempting to remake the Hourai Elixir, there's two problems with it. The first being that if the Elixir is so refiled, it would make no sense to create it again, and wouldn't atone for anything. The second being that it's outright impossible to make the Elixir without Kaguya's involvement, since it requires her power, making the task of the Moon Rabbits outright impossible.The only way I can make sense of it is if it's all just part of a big cover story, and that Jouga's being imprisoned because she drank the Hourai Elixir is just a lie told to the populace to cover up her involvement in creating the Moon's eternal archenemy by getting Junko's son killed.This would also explain why Eirin thinks that making the Hourai Elixir again for Kaguya was just a minor error. She believed that it was truly not a big deal and knew the truth behind Jouga's "sin", but severely underestimated how much the people of the Moon would care, to the point where they immediately executed Kaguya (which is also a highly impure act).There's even further evidence that the Hourai Elixir impurity is negligible, since Kaguya kept Eientei as a Pure Land despite the presence of two Hourai Immortals, and even the Lunar Capital wanted to retrieve Kaguya after just a couple decades at most, so they clearly didn't see it as a real threat.In the end, it ultimately all comes down to Eirin misjudging people, who are the one thing she can never truly understand and repeatedly underestimates.
"Brainwashing some deerfucker is based. Brainwashing my baby princess is gay."- Eirin, probably
It's funny how Lunarians aren't even the "purest" beings in the setting despite their obsession with it, remember when it was stated that the Netherworld is an even purer land than the Moon? Like even ghosts, which are an ubiquitous phenomenon, does it naturally better than the moonies at being pure.
>>51372847>it was stated that the Netherworld is an even purer land than the Moon? Like even ghostsBecause it's a dead realm filled with dead people. And for the most part, barring intentional aberrations like vengeful spirits or zombies, Touhou has been pretty strict with the rules of people that properly passed on (or are in the process of passing on) staying dead. Yuyuko wandering around corporeal and generally being free is an exception rather than the rule due to her unique circumstances.There are a couple of "Pure Lands" in the world, but those are unique realms with very strict rules and part of an established natural order, often involving the cycle of souls and life and death and whatnot.Lunarians are quite transparent about the artificial purity they live in. They want to enjoy the benefits of a Pure Realm where they themselves set the rules and isn't preambled by them fucking dying first. And for the most part, they succeeded.
>>51372915>Yuyuko wandering around corporeal and generally being free is an exception rather than the rule due to her unique circumstances.Funny you should mention that because the reason why Yuyuko sticks around is that Saigyou Ayakashi is under a seal that put it in stasis. With her soul sealed inside, Yuyuko is effectively in limbo from passing on. The Lunar Capital is more or less another Saigyou Ayakashi in stasis, but the concept is applied to something the size of a small country.
>>51354542>Lunarian threadSakuya is relevant to this thread.>She share silver hair with Eirin>Kaguya's ability is noted to be of the same nature as Sakuya's ability>Akyuu states that time manipulation isn't the kind of power a human can learn via training or skill, implying Sakuya's powers are inherent to her>Sakuya's name and theme is related to the Moon>She share the perfectionist streak that Lunarians are already known for>It's ambiguous whether she can age at all, since Remilia said that she served her mansion for too long to be called a normal humanDiscuss.
>>51372552Eirin may still be Lunarian at heart, perhaps even moreso than still actually affiliated ones like the Watatsuki sisters or even Sagume. But she also cherishes Kaguya a lot and openly supports her autonomy and her finding her own way in life. She may be a tad sociopathic, but I think its pretty clear where Eirin would stand in the theoretical scenario of Kaguya undergoing a personality/ego death.
>>51373447What's the even to discuss other than your excessive use of green?Sakuya is obviously the result of secret Moon experiments to recreate Iwanagahime's and Konohanasakuyahime's abilities for the betterment of the Moon. But since the prototype failed and only had the ability to manipulate the duration of time, it was discarded and thrown out to Earth, where it ended up passing its abilities on to its descendants.This is why Eirin recognizes Sakuya but not vice versa, and she possesses a high-tier divine-level ability ordinary humans shouldn't have.
>>51373447>It's ambiguous whether she can age at allIt doesn't really matter, aging in Touhou is barely a concept. It's not outright stated but Gensokyo's residents either don't age at all, or age extremely slowly, at a rate of maybe 1/10 or 1/5 of normal time passage. Reimu and Marisa did not turn into big mommies, Akyuu is still alive, Sanae's favorite meme is lolcats, and Sumireko is stuck in perpetual highschool limbo. That last one is propably the most confusing, since she's not even a proper Gensokyo resident.Could Sakuya be a lunarian or at least strongly moon related? Possibly, your other points have much more weight. We will never know, unless ZUN continues the nyooo classics line and finally introduces that lost phantasm stage to Imperishable Night. Or he writes something stupid into Lotus Eaters and leaves us with double the initial number of questions.Now all of that makes me think if Gensokyo isn't actually a pure land by some weird stretch. The characters might not age or age very slowly and life and death cycle is all kinds of fucked there, but nature's seasons still come and go. Then again, Gensokyo's seasons are constantly fucked with, extended, magically summoned, shortened, strengthened, what have you. Maybe Gensokyo really is some sort of a pure land and the seasons are fake. Or maybe I don't understand what kegare really is, after all lunarians would already make a big deal out of this if it was the case.
>>51374996>Sakuya is obviously the result of secret Moon experiments to recreate Iwanagahime's and Konohanasakuyahime's abilities for the betterment of the Moon.Wouldn't that claim better fit Kaguya though?Her eternity powers seem like a souped up version of what Ariya can do in terms of application. And her application of the instantaneous (i.e. brute forcing the passage of time to end the endless night) seems similar to the weird supersonic shit Konohanasakuyahime did when she killed all of Iwakasa's men.
>>51375165Kaguya was the successful end product. Sakuya is descended from a failed prototype, which could only manipulate the duration of time, which was of no use to Eirin. This is why she and Kaguya share a character in their names, as Remilia subconsciously realized her origin as she read and rewrote her fate by giving her a new name.
>>51375216> which could only manipulate the duration of timeI mean, one of the most controversial parts of Kasen's manga was Sakuya there stating that she doesn't actually have time control powers. She just moves really really fucking fast, which I guess might as well be timestop from the perspective of a layman.
>>51375223>Sakuya there stating that she doesn't actually have time control powersAnd everybody ignored that, even canon purists.
>>51375165> brute forcing the passage of time to end the endless nightLots of people actually ignore this part when talking about what Kaguya can do.The titular Imperishable Night was actually caused by the player team. And just how they froze time varied depending on the team.Reimu/Yukari = Yukari manipulated the gap between day and night.Marisa/Alice = They used some rare grimoire that cast some high level dimensional/time control spell(?)Sakuya/Remilia = Sakuya's time stop (which actually shows how strong and wide in scale it can be.)Youmu/Yuyuko = I actually don't fucking know. Probably some ghost or ritual bullshit involving the netherworld.And Kaguya effortlessly made short work of their manipulating the night. Meaning that Kaguya's power of the Instantaneous >>>>>> Yukari's Gap Powers/Sakuya's Timestop/Whatever eldritch grimoire or netherworld ritual the last two teams used. Another interesting thing about the events of Imperishable Night in canon is that in-universe, the specifics of the incident are actually really vague. The official story is that the Reimu/Yukari team was the one that settled it, but later bits and pieces of lore seemed to imply that the other teams actually took part in it too.And while Akyuu's writings are full of bullshit half the time, PMiSS has her Kaguya writeup make her speculate that Kaguya may be able to traverse or observe parallel timelines. Which sounds completely bonkers, but then you remember that nobody has a clear picture on what transpired in the eternal night incident while dancing around the idea that all teams actually participated. Were all the teams canon and Kaguya just merged the timelines at the end of imperishable night?
>>51375223https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_reply_to_messages_on_the_former_Gensou_Bulletin_Board_2:>Q: In EoSD, who is the person Patchouli called "the person who likes to play around with time and space"?>A: That is of course referring to Sakuya.Sakuya controls duration of time, not single moments of time.>In the former case of "duration of time", you can't separate it from space.>Because of that, manipulating time also means manipulating space, and vice-versa.ZUN's original interpretation was Sakuya specifically being able to manipulate the duration of time, but frames it as not a true time stop (though Sakuya can effectively use it as such regardless), so he's actually pretty consistent about this one.https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_reply_to_messages_on_the_former_Gensou_Bulletin_Board_1:>Q. [PCB] Why is Sakuya a playable character?>A. I had already decided this before making Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. (laugh)>I plan these specifications too far in advance, so I decide things further for the next few works.He also planned on using Sakuya as a playable from the very beginning, so he must have put a fair bit of thought into her character and how she fits into the world, possibly even to the point of having set up her mysterious relationship with Eirin by the time of Scarlet Devil, even if that didn't go anywhere in the end.
>>51375254>Kaguya's power of the Instantaneous >>>>>> That your power is better than another in a specific thing doesn't necessarily make it more powerful overall. I don't see Kaguya winning to a serious Yukari, and Sakuya surprised Yorihime herself with her power, which would make her at the very least a tough challenge.
>>51375314>That your power is better than another in a specific thing doesn't necessarily make it more powerful overall.Everything Yukari does is just using her ability to manipulate boundaries in different applications. Fundamentally, Kaguya was able to overpower Yukari's boundary control there. And there isn't really any reason to assume that Kaguya won't be able to same even if Yukari uses her power differently. And I actually don't like "muh if X character was actually serious" arguments because it just reeks of eternal hypotheticals. For what it's worth, Yukari was deadly serious during the events of IN. If we're talking about creator's word. Then the reason why Yukari actually changed outfits between PCB and IN is that the violet dress was Yukari's casual wear. Her outfit during IN was her Gensokyo Sage gear, and she only ever wore that when she's out to play keeps. Narratively too, the unending night was actually caused by the player team themselves as a stop gap for the missing moon. And this is despite knowing that causing an endless night will cause Gensokyo to become screwy. So the situation in Yukari's point of view was so bad that she willingly started something that will destabilize Gensokyo, the very place she's trying to protect in the first place. Everything is already pointing to Yukari being serious as hell during IN.Shit, Yukari wasn't able to do anything against Eientei's endless corridors and had to rely on the backdoor Reisen left open. Yukari was able to do some really high level abstract nonsense like manipulating the gap between day and night and thus causing an endless night. But wasn't able to manipulate shit for any of Kaguya or Eirin's spells or powers. Yukari's reputation is honestly carried by aesthetics and aura farming coolness. I mean, opening dimensional voids with eyeballs is wicked sick and definitely some final boss shit; but putting that aside, her actual performance in games and stories don't really measure up to her reputation.
>>51375384>Kaguya was able to overpower Yukari's boundary control there. And there isn't really any reason to assume that Kaguya won't be able to same even if Yukari uses her power differently.By the time they reached kaguya the incident was as good as done, you also have to remenber this is was mainly reimu's job and yukari was only there to give her a hand
>>51375384>And there isn't really any reason to assume that Kaguya won't be able to same even if Yukari uses her power differently.Doubt that. Yukari's powers seem to be greatly more diverse than Kaguya's.>her actual performance in games and stories don't really measure up to her reputation.Well, she defeated Tenshi (yes, she was serious in that fight) when nobody could lay a single finger on her, not even Sakuya or Reimu.>storiesEveryone is kind of a fraud there for the sake of the plot, so not an argument.
Eirin herself said that the fake moon spell was just babby tier shit in her own arsenal. If Yukari wasn't able to figure it out and dispelled that on her own, then she probably ain't as big as she wanks herself out to be.If anything, the whole "muh never serious" argument should be used more on Eirin. Because she has actual official statements that she's intentionally gimping herself out of respect for Kaguya.
