Lose.

>>65172817
It would be an utter disaster

It couldn't work, there'd be too many ego clashes. Not to denigrate them because I respect their military achievements in history, but I think the French would throw the biggest wrench in the works

>>65172817
When it failed to do something, it would fail for the same reasons the US military does

>>65172830
>>65172842
Why couldn't it work?
Germany dominates the EU economy
France dominates the EU military
Everyone else pitches in where they can

Europe largely all agrees on the same stuff anyways, any cultural differences are minor and insignificant compared to what you see in places like America.

>>65172846
>any cultural differences are minor and insignificant compared to what you see in places like America.
The US still has a general encompassing culture and shared cultural experiences for most of us who aren't foreign born. In a military, the differences between nigs, mexicans, and rednecks irons out. It would be more comparable if our states were more independent than they are.

>>65172853
What meaningful difference is there between a Frenchman and a German other than language?

It would be far more uncoordinated

>>65172857
Because governmentally I don't think the politicians could hash out and agree on the details

>>65172817
Infantry maybe, but not likely.

>>65172846
>any cultural differences are minor and insignificant compared to what you see in places like America.
You have to be 18+ to post.

>>65172890
Every single European countries agrees that a neoliberal social democracy is best. They're all largely secular with religion relegated to a cultural position, globalist with integrated economies, and place moderate and reasonable restrictions on hate speech and firearms without going authoritarian with it. They like democracy, they like welfare, and they like some immigration but not too much. They prioritize a healthy work-life balance, favoring life over work, and tend to prioritize the welfare of the workers over corporate profits. They like to build with solid stone or brick or concrete instead of wood, and their bureaucracies though large are good at protecting their people from abuse through regulation.

In terms of differences...they have slightly different food pallets and differing languages, but they all mostly know English anyways so they can still communicate.

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>>65172906

>>65172906
>reasonable restrictions on hate speech and firearms without going authoritarian with it.
Anon

>>65172817
Regulatory frameworks and compliance

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no because europeans don't care about their military. they'd rather give money to illegal immigrants.

>>65172937
I get irate with that shit too but rage bait never helped anyone

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>>65172906
>reasonable restrictions on hate speech

this is why europe will collapse

>>65172817
Oppressing Europeans and preventing any European nation from ever leaving the EU and gaining true independence again.

This is unironically the main use of a EU army.

>>65172954
It's the collective vs Great Individuals mindset clash. No one has gotten anywhere via committee, in fact they ruin things.

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>>65172906
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>>65172972
Is this a new copypasta? It deserves to be one.

>>65172846
>any cultural differences are minor
>

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>>65172972
LEL

>>65172846
>Everyone else pitches in where they can
here's the neat part...

>>65172846
Christ you are retarded

>>65172817
Psychiatric healthcare for PTSD-stricken veterans, so less suicides and homelessness.

>>65173009
Can you at least illuminate why

>>65172817
Be better than the US military at what?
>firepower
No
>logistics
No
>unit cohesion
they can't even communicate
>force projection
no

their uniforms would probably be slick tho

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>>65172817
Take casualties, I don't mean their infantry would be shit but spreading casualties across several democracies would allow them to take more loses before continuing a war became political suicide.
Time and time again the US has been defeated by the public getting angry at the cost in both money and lives, spreading both costs across 27 countries allows them to spend more of both.

>>65173012
I won't I'm just leaving the thread. You better be a teenager to excuse your retardation

>>65173018
Nah, no chance. The US got tired of wars that were objectively pointless.
>nooo we have to save the corrupt dictatorship in South Vietnam
We actually don't. Look, we didn't, everything is fine. They even immediately went to war without enemies after we stopped fighting them.
>nooo we have to save the retarded inbred goat rapists from themselves!
We actually don't. Look, we didn't, and everything is exactly as inbred and retarded as it was when we were there still. They even immediately attacked our enemies the second we stopped fighting them.

Losses are not the problem. A war that serves zero utility at all to anyone anywhere (aside from the MIC) is the problem. Americans will gladly die in droves for any cause they vaguely believe in.

>>65173022
No, Americans like winning wars and if they lose that war is suddenly "pointless" as if every war they win isn't also pointless.

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>>65172817
This is so retarded it's like saying why can't the niggers unite and do something good instead of fighting all the time they all have a dark skin ?
>t. Frog

>>65173024
Oh yes anon, I'm sure Vietnam and Afghanistan really mattered.

Retard. The actual reality you meant to type is "Americans call occupying a foreign power with minimal casualties over the span of 20 years a loss, meanwhile this puts our greatest victories to shame." If your retarded inept civilization of subhuman troglodytes ever in history managed to conquer a foreign power and station troops there for two decades while losing only a handful of men at the time, it would be counted as one of the greatest feats of martial superiority your worthless servile race ever accomplished. Streets would be named for this great achievement, holidays proclaimed, and celebrations held in rememberance of the time you conquered some worthless shithole.

To us, instead it is a failure, because we are better than you.

>>65172846
>>65172857
They can't even work together to create a new fighter jet. The French wouldn't accept letting the Germans handle all research, procurement, and logistics. And all this is assuming the lesser countries agree to let France and Germany decide everything without getting any juicy contracts.

>>65173037
>The french couldn't accept giving away their technological edge to retards that are ruining Europe
FIFY

>>65173032
Bodied that freak.

>>65173040
>French
>Technological edge
riiight.

>>65173047
Well yeah, they steal tech all the time. If course they have things the Germans don't.

>>65172846
>any cultural differences are minor and insignificant compared to what you see in places like America.
how about speaking the same language

>>65173032
>Oh yes anon, I'm sure Vietnam and Afghanistan really mattered.
You are failing to understand, the Gulf War completely failed at it's stated goal of stabilizing the ME and had the opposite effect but isn't considered a failure by the general public because it was a military victory.

Lets go down the list of US "victories" since WW2 and their stated goals.
>Korean War
>stop the spear of communism
>lead to China, a communist state becoming a massive arms producer and rising super power

>First Taiwan Strait Crisis
>China shells Taiwanese islands
>US tells Taiwan to leave the islands to be captured by China
>US promises to defend Taiwan from future attacks (Trump won't state if the deal still hold as of last week)

>1958 Lebanon crisis
>rebels want to overthrow US friendly government
>today Lebanon is not US friendly

>Second Taiwan Strait Crisis
>US stops China taking more islands
>first time defensive alliance with Taiwan is tested and passes the test

>Guatemalan Civil War
>US overthrew democratically elected leftists government and put in military dictator starting 36 years of civil war
>actually strategic victory and arguably "worth it"

>Ñancahuazú Guerrilla Campaign
>stop Cuba being communist
>Cuba is communist

IBF doing the rest but you get the point.

>>65173011
I hardly think an NHS style system where patients don't even get private rooms in the hospital is the superior system for an individual.
What Europeans don't understand is that their ways of doing shit isn't actually beneficial for individuals, it's beneficial for their governments. They conflate the two over there because they have/had a culturally high trust society and sincerely assume the government is looking out for them in spite of evidence to the contrary

>>65173059
>ignores the point
>keeps whining
Nobody cares because you come from a culturally insignificant and militarily inept backwater that can't even ford a river without US military assistance.

>>65173062
>ignores the point
My point here >>65173024 is most of the "victories" are pointless and ultimately fail at their stated goal.
I'm not saying the US military is weak, it isn't but the civilian leadership is more worried about the short term returns to donors than long term strategic goals.

>>65173068
But anon, that doesn't matter, because what you count as failures would be a victory if they occurred in your country.

You only count it as a failure to make up for your own pathetic state of affairs, whining about a country you will never live in, on a board about weapons you can never own. It is a good thing rape is legal in your shithole, because you are a victim of it.

>>65173059
>the Gulf War completely failed at it's stated goal of stabilizing the ME
Because at the time, it seemed pretty obvious that Iraq was the troublemaker of the region, it checks out that thinking stopping them would stabilize the region

>>65173059
>Cold War
>decisive American victory
>Soviet Union ceases to exist
>communism ceases to be a serious ideology

>>65173040
and with the attitude implicit in your comment, you perfectly explained why its doomed to fail

>>65173071
Not even slightly true. What has US foreign policy been?
>topple Iraq, the guy who orchestrated this directly said it would lead to chaos
Causes chaos.
>topple Libya
Causes chaos
>Stoke the flames in Syria
Causes chaos
>Supply Israel to do their thing
Causes chaos
>Oust Taliban, then when we get bored let them come back and leave behind all sorts of military hardware for them
Causes chaos
>Demolish Iran's leadership
Causes chaos

How many points on the graph do you need where the US does the same thing, says their goal is the opposite of what they are doing (even though they already did this and know the end result) and does it anyway? The US goal is a destabilized balkanized Middle East. No matter what is publicly stated, this is a fact.

>>65173059
Take note because:
>>65173072
is what you call meeting your stated objective. Communism has been riding the last seat on the short bus since

>>65173070
I'm Aussie, we follow you into every war like a good little bitch and share those "victories", the problem with having a triple digit IQ is you question things and start noticing.

>>65173071
>destroying a regional power and creating a power vacuum won't lead to wars
We knew this to be false 200 years ago.

>>65173072
>>65173078
>communism ceases to be a serious ideology
>please ignore the country Trump just visited to kiss ass

>>65173080
>>please ignore the country Trump just visited to kiss ass
What country? China? They're literally actually fascist, national socialists. Unironically.

>>65173080
>I'm Aussie
Wow and here I thought you were from some other shithole that speaks English and cares more about American politics than domestic affairs.

>>65173080
>>please ignore the country Trump just visited to kiss ass
Realpolitik. Sometimes it can mean kissing ass in the moment. I think Trump is a straight up charlatan but it's shit you have to do, even Bismarck did shit the Prussian king thought was beneath his country's status for what ends up being strategic advantages later on.
>inb4 cope
Tell me of a solution that doesn't get you ganged up on while still achieving long term world power goals

>>65173080
>I'm Aussie
Then have a little fucking respect for the people for whom you're clinging to their coattails

>>65173050
What are you even talking about ?

>>65173090
There's no solution china is slowly getting better at everything and we are quickly getting worse it's just how civilisation works, we are the next Europe, completely irrelevant and focused on social policies

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>>65173077
>What has US foreign policy been?
Preventing another 70s oil crisis. It's been successful up until recent*. Every war is an energy war, even if it doesn't start that way. That's all a bomb is; it's energy. Why would we cozy up to a certain stable country who is willing to fight every other country in the region? Dumb in hindsight, but makes sense if you're going through gasoline rationing. On a macro perspective, GWOT was "successful" in preventing another oil crisis, even though Afghanistan has very little proven oil reserves, due to the large presence ensuring no disruption to the oil supply.

*Debatable. Traditional wisdom is oil should be well in excess of $200 should the Strait be closed and mined, yet we're not there. Partially due to stockpiles/strategic reserves/general market uncertainty regarding Trump, but also because oil is a much smaller impact on the economy these days, especially compared to natural gas. Also due to the shale revolution (one area we are much more advanced than China at the moment, although unlikely to stay that way after this crisis). Places where oil is burned for power has oil and gas roughly equal in price per energy unit right now (notably Italy). In a sense, we've proven through this we're much more resilient to oil shocks than the past. As a result, I wouldn't be surprised if we pull some resources out of and "neglect" CENTCOM going forward, keeping only enough to maintain some capability and hedge against the Belt and Road Initiative.

>>65172817
It would have more people, tanks and small vessels like frigates and non nuclear submarines
As a result, it would be stronger in areas where it does not depend on high end US capabilities like spy sats and weaker in areas where it does

>>65173100
>Dunning–Kruger effect the post

>>65172857
Everything except skin colour and a mutual disdain for the eternal anglo

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>>65172817
Read Abaut Austro Hungarian military and see how it turned out. It will be the same.

>>65173099
Drop the black pill man, it's not a fortune teller and it's also suicidal for morale, and morale is half the fucking battle.

>>65173112
I literally don't give a shit I've already made it I'm just saying what I'm seeing, I've travelled to china and Taiwan for years and when I come back to Europe or the US I don't see it as returning to civilization, quite the opposite in fact. Of course there's still hope for the US, Europe is done tho. I hope I'm wrong but honestly the trend is clearl

>>65173124
Good thing the Chinese put so much weight in appearances

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>>65172817
Europe is utterly cooked as a military power until it fixes this. You want to understand the deep-seated malaise over there, it's this image: Europe doesn't make enough to do what it wants.

The lack of growth means there's currently a ten trillion dollar gap between annual ourput of the EU and the U.S. today, when the economies were roughly equal two decades ago. And the difference is compounding as we speak, growing starker every year.

Even assuming a relatively modest 2% of GDP military spend, that's an additonal 200 billion for military procurement every single year that does not exist. That's more than what Germany and the U.K. spend combined each year.

This isn't just me American dickwagging; it's watching the death of your main ally in slow motion.

>>65173138
You have to use PPP

>>65172830
it has been done several times through history with much less technology, big example united kindom in 1800s and prussia dominated germany before german unification.

>>65173147
That was shaky at best

>>65172817
No. US population is overall mixed with nationwide similar physical and psychical capabiliteis and similar mentality and upbringing.
Now try to coordinate unit where there are Greeks, Danes, Portuguese and F*ench.
Even language barriers aside it would be a shitshow.

Thinking about it I can maybe imagine local unification like eastern cluster, mediteranean cluster, baltic cluster, atlantic cluster and mainland cluster.

t. Euro

>>65173145
No, I don't. PPP is a measure normalized for local consumer staples, not international arms shipments. A Patriot missile or FREMM isn't magically cheaper because Poland is buying it.

>>65172846
>Everyone else pitches in where they can
lol
>Europe largely all agrees on the same stuff anyways
lmao
>any cultural differences are minor and insignificant
OK, now you're just trolling.

>>65173077
>Stoke the flames in Syria
It wasn't America propping up Assad

>>65173169
No shit retard. It was America arming and training ISIS.

>>65173175
lol literal zigger psy op talking point

>>65172817
>What would EU military do better than US?
Die in large numbers. Like they always have.

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>>65172846
>Europe largely all agrees on the same stuff anyways, any cultural differences are minor and insignificant compared to what you see in places like America.
Do people ACTUALLY believe this? Do you jackasses seriously think an Estonian and Spaniard have more in common than an American from Ohio and an American from Oregon?

>>65173179
Right, we only did that for the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, the guys running open air slave markets in Libya, but ISIS? Nah no way. In a decade they'll probably admit we trained the Tuaregs and Al-Qaeda linked groups in Mali just to troll Russia like old times, but definitely not ISIS, no way. We only armed and trained the 'moderate' rebels in Syria not the bad ones :). You know, the moderate ones fighting a racewar at this very moment against the Druze and Kurds and Alawites and basically everyone that's not an Arab.

>>65173199
No. Those people don't think at all.

>>65173199
Some people read nothing but Reddit and the Guardian and assume Europe is two days away from forming a unified constitutional republic and becoming the new leader of the free world because Trump is a big ol' meanie. There's nothing more to their analysis than that.

>>65173199
The America portrayed in Europe is an awful caricature. We have our own for them, but I'd argue they're worse than us in that way, I just hope we can manage to fight together when west vs east finally happens for real

lutz would be they'd have to speak not just English but 'Merican English as their only possible common language.

Same as international airline pilots and towers.

>>65173158
It is cause you just print more euros to cover its cost. Just like the US is doing you know

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>>65172817
ground forces might be a bit better, especially if Ukraine is part of it
otherwise the US would probably be ahead

>>65173199
As an Ohioan I can tell you that Ohioans from Ohio and Ohioans from Cincinnati have less in common than Belgium and half its neighbors.

>>65173211
>France refuses
>Southern Europe is too lazy to learn
>Slavs too stupid (mostly)
>Sweden stays neutral
>Czechs and Poles try
>Germany is left with Denmark, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Finland, Poland, Czechia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia, somehow Romania and Hungary too
>Germany starts getting flashbacks after seeing what this map looks like and drops the idea entirely

>>65173110
Hitler said the Hapsburgs worried about Austrians breaking away to join Germany, so they DEI lower IQ Slavs from the East into all important positions in Austria, creating problems and butthurt all around.

>>65173110
Grievously underrated assessment

>>65173225
I get little joy out of saying it, but he was right about pretty much everything

>>65173175
It wasn't the american controlled parts of syria that ISIS was hiding and training in

>>65173199
>Do you jackasses seriously think an Estonian and Spaniard have more in common
Can you name a single fucking significant difference other than language? They all both have the same core beliefs, what does it matter if they like slightly different food?

>>65173247
if you can't tell the difference you've been fed so much murrican goyslop culture that can no longer differentiate between European cultures

>>65173210
>The America portrayed in Europe is an awful caricature
I think that's partially true, and also that such caricatures are common across all parts of the globe. Because it's much, much easier to generalize americans into 'texas-ish, the hills have eyes, wallstreet and sanfran druggies', just as how europe is easier to view as 'gay norse, retarded brits, uppity french, lazy italians'.
That also makes agitprop easier to spread, which makes it easy to fray at the roots of alliances.

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>>65172817
>>65172830
Strategic interests in the EU are split four ways.

The Mediterranean nations are generally forced to mind Africa, which is something the rest of the EU doesn't even think about.
Germany wants to suck Russian and US dick and buy US bonds in exchange for export goods.
The former Russian colonies want to defend themselves against their former masters.
The Nordic and formerly unaligned countries still think neutrality is acceptable.

Write a common defense policy for them all.

>>65173283
>common defense policy for them all.
armed neutrality, forget about power projection and focus on economical short range platforms.
use those to dominate the med, baltic and black sea
on land a partial conscription to bulk out the land forces. again 0 expeditionary capacity just focus on being able to keep the russians back with a mix of high end and low end systems.
cold war switzerland but for the whole continent

>>65172890
>any cultural differences are minor and insignificant compared to what you see in places like America
I can see why you'd take issue with that but consider that natives of red states routinely claim that they'd like China/Russia to nuke NYC and LA and that this would improve the country.

You don't hear the French saying that about Athens or Bulgarians saying it about Krakow.
The level of resentment in the US, particularly about cities which basically subsidise the existence of entire other states, is extreme.

Now how many of the posters who say that are really burgers and not actually vatniks, I can't speak to but it does seem to be a somewhat common sentiment.

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>>65172906
That is well said anon, you drew out the burgers and ziggers beautifully.
You deserve your (You)s because the finest bait is crafted from the truth.

>>65172817
Infighting.

>>65172846
>any cultural differences are minor
lol
lmao even

>>65172973
>Is this a new copypasta? It deserves to be one.
Rule 21 anon

>>65173054
>how about speaking the same language
Europeans tend to speak a lot of languages.
I routinely meet euros who speak 3-4 languages, native language plus English plus at least one other Euro language is pretty common in anyone educated and lots of people who aren't.
I know a woman who speaks eight and doesn't even work as a translator or anything.
If you hang out with lawyers, doctors, other professions that are essentially talking/people focused, they'll often speak five or so languages.

It helps that much of Europe have related languages, if you know one of the Latin/Slavic/Norse languages then you're off to a good start.
If you know two then it's actually pretty easy to be passable in half a dozen languages.

The Hungarian/Estonian/Finnish crowd get less foreigners speaking their language though.

>>65173110
>It will be the same.
Or we learn and avoid those mistakes.

>>65172817
On the off chance they somehow did pull it off and built a unified EU military they'd be the undisputed champions of red tape getting in the way of effectiveness. Every little thing would need 9001 layers of approval and confirmation. It'd also be an absolute clusterfuck logistically because standardization is a bastard when you've got a pile of nations using different stuff. Language barriers would also be a son of a bitch. Not everyone speaks 42 languages and deciding which language will be the primary military language would result in a political bloodbath. The biggest things they'd have is pretty decisive control of the strait of Gibraltar and the Baltic Sea.

On paper a unified military would make the EU powerful, in practice it'd be a joke. It'd take a century for it to get unfucked.

an the issue of language
currently all European armies teach their soldier some english due to being a part of NATO
that being said just raise monolingual platoons/battalions/regiments
the number of people that would need to be able to communicate in a second or third language fluently gets cut down a lot.
you can also do what most multi lingual federal states do, you introduce a wage incentive for the lower ranks to learn one or more other languages and a language requirement for the mid and higher ranks. focus those on the 3 working languages of the EU French, German and English and every squad will have at least someone that can communicate in one of those 3 to any other unit.
I'd also ad the requirement that every officer as he start climbing the ranks has to rotate into a unit that doesn't speak their language and isn't speaking one of those 3 working languages so you build an officer core that can speak even some of the more niche languages spoken in Europe
there's also tons of technological aids to help with very good direct translation

>>65173361
>that being said just raise monolingual platoons/battalions/regiments
this is a good idea, but everyone should still be required to know basic English
fuck German and French, English is the lingua franca and seething about that fact is retarded and autistic

>>65173365
well basic english is already being thought to every one due to NATO
you could just keep that going
I'd simply introduce wage incentive for those that get up to a B1-C2 level in an other language
and make a C1 in at least one of the working languages a requirement for becoming an officer with additional language requirements as you climb the ranks, helped by spending time in monolingual regiments that speak that language so you can learn and be immersed in native speakers
I've spoken with some people that have gone trough the US armies language school and the results they get with just weeks of intensive training is honestly very fucking good. but they are hopeless once you don't speak the standard variant and put on an accent or use dialect vocabulary.
so put your officers trough a language school like it and then place them in a monolingual unit that speaks that language so their understanding of it can ripen and broaden.
the major country officers all speak a minor country language and the minor country officers all get to learn the major country languages
the big guys get to feel important the small guys get to feel appreciated

>>65173357
>Every little thing would need 9001 layers of approval and confirmation
That would be ISO9001 layers of approval and confirmation.

It's funny you talk about this being an EU government thing though because Anglo corporations were inventing their own version of this red tape in the 90s, mostly to fuel consultancy fees I think but technically in the name of efficiency.

>>65173377
>the major country officers all speak a minor country language and the minor country officers all get to learn the major country languages
That is pretty much how it is today.

>>65173365
>fuck German and French, English is the lingua franca
True, but 100 million or so people in the EU speak German as their first language, and quite a lot of Eastern Europeans learn it in school, which probably means another 50 million or so with some basic level of German..

Of course everybody learns English, but the sheer number of people who know German is not going away by seething, either.

>>65173379
Nah, that was just an attempt to control market access. It failed spectacularly because India and China.

>>65172817
It wouldn't work without a single centralized government that has an authority over governments of other countries.

>>65173385
>but 100 million or so people in the EU speak German as their first language
it's about 80-90 million depending on who you'd count as a german native speaker
but still a solid fifth of the EU's total population
the 4 most common mother languages, German, Italian, English (Ireland, Malta, and brits/burgers living in the EU) and French account for 56% of the population if you add in Spanish and Polish you'r looking at 72% of the population

>>65172817
Kind of irrelevant to have a unified military if the political control of said military is not unified.

>>65172846
take austria hungary military.
make it even worse by adding more culturally distant parties and more ambitious countries bickering with each other
the only reason i am against it is because my country is in EU so i'd be affected by such a spectacular trainwreck.

>>65172817
Given time, maybe
The problem is that the EU is not a single country, but a collection of countries, each with their own interests and agenda they want to push
Can you imagine the political shitshow that would occur if the procurement competition had to decide between German and French products? Or how bad it would be if they tried to develop one jointly?
Or if the French army had to be subordinated to a German general?
Actually now that I think about it, most of the potential problems come down to the French. Huh.

A lot of the smaller countries are highly specialized for their domestic environment. Military tradition, culture and command structure is also so different it just wouldn't work unless they completely overhaul the structure of every single nation to be the same. And that's stupid. Now that basically everyone is a nato member since Finland and sweden joined it's pointless anyways. They already have a joint military alliance with nato and the joint expedition force to supplement nato.

>>65172817
yeah

>>65173469
Mostly, an EU miliatry would be like NATO, without the US.

NATO is teh blueprint to follow, anyway. Countries pick a thing tehy become very good at, and then set up training centers to teach everyone else.

>Actually now that I think about it, most of the potential problems come down to the French. Huh.
Well, they ARE pretentious faggots. Some of that is justified, though. They do get shit done on a shoestring budget, more often than not.
At the same time, the German obsession with a perfectly engineered solution that does everything is also valuable. . if tempered.
Throw in the Polish and Finnish realization that all things beign equal, you HAVE to bring numbers. . .
And 30 other ideas and concepts from as many countries. . .the foundations are there.

It's a question of organization, and political will over time. In this way, the Russian war in Ukraine is helping.

>>65173479
>Now that basically everyone is a nato member
*angry austria noises*

>>65172817
>Europe
>Unify
AHAHAHAHAHSHAAHAH

>>65173037
> They can't even work together to create a new fighter jet.

This. They need the English to persuade the French to agree to a few of the things the Germans want. That might work.

>>65173536
Dassault want to have money from everyone to build a French carrier capable fighter that they can then sell to the people who gave them money, even though they all said 'no carrier capability for us, thank you'.
Shockingly enough, this has not worked. Again.
If tehy could stop being raging faggots for five minutes, this could have worked.

But it was literally Dassault deciding that this project should rather be doomed than be an actual cooperation.

>>65172817
lose paperwork

>>65172817
Considering that all of their funding and protection is from the US and the US military, no they would still be dogshit.

Also you can't program Europeans to give a shit and over half of them have been pathetic for so long I don't think they would do anything if push come to shove anyway.

>>65172817
>unified
They don't even speack the same language, unlike Americans who are all one united people, indivisible, under God.

>>65172906
And thats why it's becoming the middle east+

God i can't wait for you all to turn stone age for 500 years because you couldn't And wouldn't tell Abdul kidfucker to go home where he belongs

>>65173308
I want TZD but I also want Europe to have mass deportations, stop importing africans and Arabs, get women out of politics and become right wing and ditch American culture

>>65172906
European women have a sub 1 tfr in some places and your post is typed like a Neo-lib euro federalist. kick out Jews, Arabs, and africans and destroy liberalism and then it will work out

>>65172934
this

>>65173201
Taliban were the good guys tho, and Jolani is syria is good Assad is bad.
>fighting a racewar at this very moment against the Druze and Kurds and Alawites
who cares, they sided with Assad let them get revenge and kill their enemies

>>65173665
the Stone Age would be fine if it was their people, not some gynoZOG hellhole with a panopticon surveillance state

>>65172846
An Alaskan and a Floridian have more in common than a German and a Frenchman.

>>65173221
Both are from a rust belt shithole with nothing going on, not really much different aside from high school football rivalries

>>65173099
>There's no solution china is slowly getting better at everything
Except breeding and paying pensioners

>>65174123
>Except breeding and paying pensioners
that is Europe as well, except china is not bringing in hordes of africans and Arabs

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>>65174147
>that is Europe as well
burgerbros don't look

>>65174147
>hordes of africans and Arabs
We have fewer, but the ones we have know that on a practical level they're basically invulnerable

>>65172817
Might do COIN slightly better than the US. Otherwise nothing. But does it need to?

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>>65174210
U.S. 1.6
Europe 1.3
China 1.0

>>65174226
>>65174210
Now post white american women because that's the one we actually care about. Any fertility is worthless if it's just more Pablos and Patels getting shat out.

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>>65172906

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>>65174226
still dying out bro
browns will inherit the earth

>>65174237
It's like 1.55, but hilariously there's a massive split between progressives and conservatives. The heckin' girl bosses are wasting their last eggs and getting bred out of existence.

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>>65174237
So sorry

>>65174237
The only whites in the US pushing out white kids are Christian fundamentalists and meth addicts.

>>65174249
It's not great, but America still has the comparative advantage of assimilating immigrants. Once the spigot of illegal immigration gets shut, Americans are extremely good at breaking up cultural enclaves and admitting actually productive and value additive immigrants.

>>65174265
Not really. Thanks to instagram being a mommy is back "in" among 16-24 year old girls. It's a pretty shocking twist, considering most women my age think getting pregnant is literay the worst thing that could happen to them.

>>65174279
>America still has the comparative advantage of assimilating immigrants
Do they? It's not the 1890's or the 1950's anymore, and American culture isn't the overimposing juggernaut it used to be, and groups like Germans, Italians, and Irish only "assimilated" over a period of around a century (and it's still not a full assimilation) and of course ethnic groups like jews, blacks, and hispanics have never assimilated and probably never will. Modern day America also treats ethnic and cultural minorities with the kid gloves and, of course, there are ethnic minorities like chinese and indians who are very insular and very clannish, and have their own agendas, like jews, and they will never assimilate, either.

I'd even go so far as to argue that "assimilation" of an alien population has historically never happened short of the o'l rape and murder to make an enemy population biologically, as well as culturally the host population. All throughout history, minority populations have historically formed their own self-sustaining ghettos and enclaves rather than becoming culturally like the host country.

>>65174279
>America still has the comparative advantage of assimilating immigrants
Not since 1965

>>65174310
>>65174302
It feels that way because we're at the crest of our third immigration wave. Same thing happened in the mid 1800s and 1910s. A massive influx of new arrivals fuels nativist backlash once they reach a critical mass (about 12-15% of the population). Then immigration gets capped, and the children and grandchildren diffuse into the wider population.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time

It's not a perfect or costless system, but on net it's been a boon to American power.

>>65174331
>Then immigration gets capped, and the children and grandchildren diffuse into the wider population.
Today's America doesn't have the same level of sense it did during those times. Western countries weren't hell-bent on suicide, they are now. We can't even kick out illegal rapists, you really think we're not at a point of no return?

>>65174249
a lot of the orange are now sub 2 like morocco and Tunisia, its dropping everywhere desu

>>65174265
actually trad catholics most of which are yt have a tfr of almost 4 and all races in America are sub 2, Latinx is at 1.7 and black tfr fell below white tfr to 1.4 compared to yts tfr of 1.5

>>65174286
good 16-24 is a perfect age for women to get pregnant at, rather than over 30 having children. shame a lot of men even Latinx, blk, and yt are feminists and will never end women's rights

>>65174331
america is a zog owned feminist hellhole, the golden age is over it was 90% White in the late 60s and now is just filled with people scamming and getting welfare

>>65174254
black tfr is lower now. Latinx from Mexico are lower too,

>>65174348
>Latinx
You don't have to talk that way here, it's okay

>>65174350
why Latinx is a good term, xhe is one angry Latinx!

>>65174337
>>65174348
I think we are very much nearing the point of no return. Once you get past 20-25% foreign, social cohesion begins to fall apart, especially if there's a constant stream of new arrivals. That being said, 2025 was the first year of net negative migration, so there are positive signs.

Additionally many new arrivals actually like America more than the guilty liberals who treat immigrants policy as a backdoor reparation system. That's not to say the game is won, but it isn't lost either.

>>65174367
>Once you get past 20-25% foreign, social cohesion begins to fall apart, especially if there's a constant stream of new arrivals. That being said, 2025 was the first year of net negative migration, so there are positive signs.
I agree

we shall see a lot of yts are too self hating and have no pr.ide in their r.ace which is weird....!!!1


either way th.is idea that multi.cul.turalism works....is laughable.....europhiles are re.tarded to bring in their.racial enemy,ies

something only yts could do

>>65174376
>europhiles
About half the US population at this point, almost exclusively white at that.

>>65174378
>About half the US population at this point, almost exclusively white at that.

there are two type of yt. euro,.philes

the one who is right wi.ng and wants Europe to be European and celebrates their. her.itage

and ghey yt lib.erals who think the age of consent should be 40 and impo.rt billions of paj33t and Latinx voters

>>65174384
are you having a stroke bro?

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>>65174410
we a.re al.l hav.ing a stroke

>>65173685
>European women have a sub 1 tfr in some places
TFR doesn't matter. Do you know how long it would take the European population to die out at its current TFR?

1,300 years.

TFR is a meme.

>>65175138
its not, especially when you're importing people who have mfrs of +3, its not like Europe is keeping its borders secure lmao.

low tfr is also bad because you have a smaller young population that must take care of the elderly

>>65175138

demographics are destiny

>>65175213
Demographics largely don't matter. The last war that Europe will have to fight for basically the rest of its future is being fought in Ukraine right now.

>>65172817
Yeah. The mutts simply aren't prepared for a conflict where they aren't dominating (yet still losing against) Arabs. Any sort of push back is going to result in a societal collapse. That's why China will unironically win, because human life has little value there. You will bomb them, they will keep coming, and you will lose your nerve. When the going gets tough, the mutts get going.

>>65175283
>That's why China will unironically win
One bomb chucked at one dam would flood half their major cities lol
chinks and arabs are only good at dying in mass

>>65175283
Nah. You have no idea the unhinged genocide that would occur if Americans actually felt threatened.

This entire thread reeks of vodka and anal AIDS.

>>65175383
>arrogance
This is a genuine concern for me when it comes to western forces. I don't the the ability to throw troops into the meat grinder actually exists
>>65175392
>we'll just nuke everybody
That's Russian tier weakness

>>65175398
No it's not, as Russia's nukes don't work.

>>65175398
I don't think the ability*

>>65175191
low fertility will be a non-issue when governments cut back on benefits for retired people. these governments just need to figure out how disenfranchise retirees first so they don't vote out the government.

>>65175403
>work
>grow old
>oh no, now I am expendable
This is vatnik/chink propaganda designed to make us disrespect our elderly relatives

The Germans, British, and French all make excellent soldiers, but like their American counterparts, their biggest weakness is their politicians. Their politicians are even worse then are the Americans.

I would like to see the U.S. invade Europe to destroy the E.U., restore national identity and control, and help the Euro's eliminate all the Muslims, Africans, and browns from Europe. Then after, the Euro's would help the U.S. eliminate their invading browns here in the U.S..

Dreams.
Dreams.

>>65175416
it is reality for those who went through greek austerity and cyprus banking haircut

>>65175283
to be fait it if cxomes to war aa. Ah. too many yupos. Allow me to try again.

To be fair, comma, if it comes to war with china, comma, then the jewish slimebags clearly will leave no options off the table, including nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. You throw an A-bomb on every chinese industrial city, you get a blasted wasteland incapable of figthing back. To be fair, the slitties feel the same way, but the deaths of white, black, brown, etc, meansw nothing to the zionist elite.

>>65175489
You're trying too hard

>>65175398
>I don't the the ability to throw troops into the meat grinder actually exists
the only things that should be getting ground is the enemy troops and your disposal munitions

>>65172817
What would it be filled with? Browns and Africans? They don't trust them with guns or armor, it's why they are freaking out over Ukraine. They have no nationals that will fight for them. And why would they?

>>65172817
They'd curbstomp Iran for one

>>65175548
Lol. Come the fuck on.

>>65173110
It might actually be worse. Austria-Hungary had the Hapsburg dynasty as a center and focal point that all the various ethnicities joined around. The modern day European Union lacks an equivalent recognized center.

>>65175401
>I don't think the ability*
It was funnier the other way.

>>65175560
>The modern day European Union lacks an equivalent recognized center
Every large European war has revolved around Brussels in some way, why fight tradition?
At least this time the Belgians might consent to it.

>>65175564
Do you honestly believe that a Belgian general staff has what it takes to wrangle a Franco-German alliance for the duration of a war?

>>65175564
as a b*lgian I do not consent to it

>>65172817
Current Europe has
>dogshit logistics
>dogshit ISR
>dogshit navy
>dogshit airforce
>dogshit satellite constellations
>dogshit natural resources
>dogshit economy

Only advantage vis a vis the U.S. would be cheap infantry. Europe has more people than the U.S. and they can pay them 2/3 to 1/2 what you need to pay an American due to Europe's lower standard of living. Not to mention mandatory conscription is more normalized in many east and central Euro countries. So you'd have a lot of men under arms. They'd be pretty threatening to any adversaries they could be bussed to. So yeah they could roll Russia, but not much beyond that.

>>65175569
>Do you honestly believe that a Belgian general staff
Woah woah woah
Where did I say that the Belgians would be fighting the war?

Belgians are never combatants for wars that revolve around Belgium.
When has that ever happened?


>>65175574
>as a b*lgian I do not consent to it
That's the spirit!

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>>65172846
>any cultural differences are minor and insignificant compared to what you see in places like America.

Yeah! You tell them how it is, Sanchez!

>>65175584
>Belgians are never combatants for wars that revolve around Belgium.
Whoa whoa whoa. I'll have you know Belgium held out for line two months in WWI and 18 days in WW2.

If you're giving out awards for cowardice, the silver goes to the Netherlands who bravely held out for 1 week before becoming Hitler's most earnest collaborators. And Denmark gets the gold, at a whole six hours of heroic resistance before surrending.

>>65175597
>If you're giving out awards for cowardice
I am not, it's just that Belgium is indisputably the centre of all European wars.

>>65175601
That's what being a tiny country between on the Great European Plane will do to a motherfucker. See also: Poland.

>>65175574
Admit it, you are Dutch and just want to see Belgium burn.

>>65175584
>Belgians are never combatants for wars that revolve around Belgium
And yet, you are at the center of it almost every time. Curious.

>>65175615
>And yet, you are at the center of it almost every time. Curious.
It's European tradition that the English can never lose a war, provided they're fighting against Germans, on behalf of the French, in Belgium.

>>65175607
>That's what being a tiny country between on the Great European Plane will do to a motherfucker.
How many of the Napoleonic battles were in modern Belgium?

>>65172817
Non-corrupt leader

>>65175619
Excuse my ignorance but isn't being on the board of a Russian energy conglomerate the number 1 retirement gig for ex-Euro prime ministers.

>>65172817
Generating red tape. But a more honest answer might be peacekeeping or winning hearts and minds. Thirdies are less afraid of European capitalists than American ones.

>>65175618
AI says 4, including the most important battle of the wars.

>>65175647
>including the most important battle of the wars
Obviously Waterloo was there.

>>65175618
>How many of the Napoleonic battles were in modern Belgium?
according to AI:
"There were exactly four major battles fought directly by Napoleon Bonaparte in modern Belgium, all of which took place during his final, dramatic "Hundred Days" campaign in June 1815."
"Prior to the Napoleonic Wars, French Revolutionary forces fought major campaigns in the region, including the famous Battle of Fleurus in 1794, but these occurred before Napoleon’s rise to power as Emperor in 1804"

>>65173059
>Korean War
>stop the spear of communism
>Successfully stop spread of Communism into South Korea and even gain a small amount of territory overall.
>Kill so many Chinks when they freaked out and invaded after the initial Nork invasion got smashed that Mao couldn't invade Taiwan
>Taiwan stands to this day

You're also forgetting Vietnam, a war the US lost but actually "won" by your retarded reasoning since today they're basically acting as an alternative sweatshop to China and acting with the US against China for the most part.

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>>65175653
>Vietnam, a war the US lost but actually "won" by your retarded reasoning since today they're basically acting as an alternative sweatshop to China and acting with the US against China for the most part
That's a little less true these days, China found a way to kind of ziggerfy the Vietnamese communist party leadership, there's a sizeable faction that just wants to suck up to China and get paid and I think they're currently in control of the party.

Which brings up a salient point about how you can really define victory however you want by choosing when to consider the victory to have occurred?
Draw the line at the Fall of Saigon, dramatic US defeat.
Draw the line at the invasion of Cambodia, Vietnam takes on all comers and wins.
Draw the line at the First Burger King in Saigon, US strategic victory.
Draw the line at the resurgence of Chinese influence in Hanoi, Chinese economic victory.
And what will happen tomorrow?
Who knows but I'm sure US/China tussling over Vietnam hasn't stopped for all time so it's going to go back and forth until something dramatic happens.

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>>65175618
>It's European tradition that the English can never lose a war, provided they're fighting against Germans, on behalf of the French, in Belgium.
The English won against the French, with the Germans on their side, at Waterloo.
Weird.
It's almost like there is a force driving Europe to war, again and again, eternally, residing in those English lands. Some sort of. . .eternal anglo

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>>65172817
>If the EU had a unified military, what would it do better than the US military?
Not serving Israel

>>65175653
Yes, but you're forgetting they only went communist in the first place in opposition of the French, so we could have reach the ultimate outcome by abstaining from entering Indochina, meaning we save 200 billion (or over a trillion in todays $) and 60K extra Americans live to see the 1980s.

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>>65174286
It doesn't matter what women "think". Men either for that matter. An astroturfed "trend" on social media isn't going to change the reality that having children is no longer sensible from a purely economic perspective in the first world for 99% of people. The ONLY people in the past AND TODAY who have surplus births are people for whom having more children correlates to an increase in their standard of living. From ancient times until the mid 20th century, rural agrarians had as many kids as the land could support because it meant more free farmhands. Same with people who had lots of kids in the 19th to mid 20th century. Parents could put their kids to work in a mine or factory and have extra income for the household. Same with the Amish, the only group of white Americans today with a replacement rate above 2.0. It's not because they believe in God harder than Catholics and other Protestants now. It's because their lifestyle supports it because children are actually profitable for them. It's also not correlated directly with wealth or welfare generally, hence why rich Euros aren't having tons of kids.

What countries need to do to fix the crisis is simple: just pay couples a consistent salary to have and raise children. Pay a bit under the median tax receipts per citizen (and stipulate it that the parents need to raise the child well to keep getting paid). I guarantee you wypipo in the US would have a positive birthrate if couples were paid like 30k a year per kid. This kills 2 birds with 1 stone since childcare would also be taken care of. The first country that figures this out and supplements their elderly pension system with this (or replaces it honestly since this is way more important) is going to take over the world.

>>65175684
So basically a beefed up child tax credit?

>>65175681
I'm not actually arguing that the US won Vietnam, I'm saying it's retarded it is to judge the success of a war by the geopolitical situation some arbitrary number of years after the war's conclusion, especially if the situation changed for reasons unrelated to the war.

>>65175691
The same concept but not a tax credit since that's nowhere near sufficient. Being a parent needs to be treated like a government job basically (if people want the money that is which they would because it'd be a lot and people generally WANT to have kids anyway).

>>65175684
Should note this also applies to poor Jeets/Africans today as well. They have lots of kids because it's more hands they can bring down to the garbage dump and extract metals from Westerner's trash or whatever. As these countries develop and people gain standards though, their birth rate will go down because they will pass stricter child labor laws and kids simply aren't as profitable as machines.

The state needs to start looking at the citizenry somewhat as capital equipment that needs investing in.

>>65175679
>It's almost like there is a force driving Europe to war, again and again, eternally, residing in those English lands. Some sort of. . .eternal anglo
Oh, I think the Frogs and Krauts are part of that equation too.
You're right though, sometimes it's Bongs with Krauts against Frogs and sometimes it's Bongs with Frogs against Krauts.

It somehow always comes back to Belgium though.

>>65175615
I'm Flemish and I just want to watch the other half of our "country" burn
the Dutch can get fucked for blockading the Schelde for 400 years

>>65175684
why should we care about what a sentient farm tool thinks? now get back to the slatrice farms you skooma bottle with fur.

>>65172817
Lol no. See the Austro-Hungarian Army for the last time euros tried to pool their militaries together into a collective; it barely worked due to the language barrier.

They would do way better than the US in Iran, because the European powers would never let Iran become a world superpower by charging tolls in the gulf, which every nation in the world is eager to give them now to spite the US and Israel!

Iran will be a world superpower by 2030! US has failed and is a dying power and a Chinese vassal state!

>>65172817
Too many chiefs and too much bureaucracy.

>>65172817
They'd ally with based Iran and push the US back into their own country. Everyone knows that Iran and the EU are natural allies.

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>>65175742
Urm acshually, the Eastern front 1942 was the last great coalition of European land armies actually fighting in Europe. And we know how that went.

>>65172857
For starters one is an obedient automaton who does what he is told and is obsessed with efficiency and order while other would rather burn down paris than do anything the government wants to do ever and is biologically incapable of being faithful to a partner. But even inside Germany there's different kinds of Germans, like the one I described already and the jolly fat mountain Germans.

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>>65175735
least butthurt flemchud

>>65175783
You also have different kind of Frenchmen. You have the lazy and unfocused Parisians who only take May and August off, and the industrous and dedicated Provincials who ensure their holiday lasts all year round.

>>65173221
The differences between half of Belgiums neighbors start in the middle of Belgium. It's basically a piece of France and a piece of the Netherlands broke off and joined together into a dysfunctional shithole.

>>65175824
Is there a reason for this? I'm assuming it had to do with either Napoleon and/or the Hapsburgs creating some weird little pygmy shithole out of the areas France and the Netherlands didn't want.

The European powers must unite and destroy the GREAT SATAN!

>>65175845
He is wrong tho, Belgium was not the result of a "piece of france and a piece of the netherlands" put together, it was always an unified land that used to be the catholic netherlands, or southern netherlands.

>>65175852
I take it they hated Protestants slightly more than they hated each other and here we are 200 years later.

>>65174367
>, 2025 was the first year of net negative migration
A lot of these were white Americans leaving US since they can't bare it anymore.

>>65172857
The french are drunken degenerates.

>>65172966
Underrated.

>>65173019
>I won't I'm just leaving the thread
I wish more people had this level of self control.

>>65173024
>as if every war they win isn't also pointless
Winning is the point to war, retard. Losing has never beed the goal of war.

>>65173050
>they have things the Germans don't.
Moldy cheese and shitty beaches aren't as big a deal as you imply.

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>>65172817
The EU already used to have an unified military.
It was called Waffen SS
And it has quite a shitty military record

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>>65173084
>cares more about American politics than domestic affairs.
I see this A LOT.

>>65173138
>everyone took a hit during the chinese flu
The chinks made in in the lab, why won't people admit that?

>>65176004
they have fun

>>65175756
>US has failed and is a dying power and a Chinese vassal state!
If true, where is my state issued Chinese bride?

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>>65176015
Here.

>>65175987
You mean useless libs like Rosie O 'Donnell moving to Ireland?

>>65173110
based historically illiterate fool