>Ukraine vs Russia>Iran vs the USDrones have made it impossible for large and powerful conventional militaries to achieve decisive battlefield success even with overwhelming firepower. In the recent cases where it has (such as Azerbaijan vs Armenia and Israel vs Gaza/Lebanon), this was entirely due to the complete and total lack of support for the defender by other countries.This means that any thirdie country, no matter how large, incoherent and dysfunctional as Ukraine and the IRI, are basically unbeatable. Western style conventional militaries are unable to succeed, leverage their expensive airpower assets, and must blow millions on interceptors against drones and missiles that cost thousands, all the while their armored vehicles and infantrymen are killed by FPV drones with hand grenades.It means that no superpower can compel a thirdie shithole to do anything even with the threat of direct military invasion unless it agrees or was pre-arranged to capitulate first like Venezuela.We are basically stuck at the point of 1914/15 with no answer for trenches and machine guns
Defense in general has always favored the defender
>>65173181r u retarded?
>>65173181I'm pretty sure Iran and Ukraine's successes have more to do with the incompetence of their opponents (more political incompetence inj the case of the US, incompetence in literally every sphere for the Russians) than it has to to do with le drones.
>>65173181>any thirdie country, no matter how large, incoherent and dysfunctional as UkraineYou've been drinking the zigger kool-aid, haven't you?>We are basically stuck at the point of 1914/15 with no answer for trenches and machine gunsAnd since then, nobody has come up with a way to break through such defenses
>>65173181did retards like you forget when Venezuela got steamrolled overnight 6 months ago? Or Syria collapsing, or Israel steam rolling Gaza. Or the Houthis having to shift focus to Israel to stop the US from bombing them. Or any number of third world shitholes that have been fucked over by the west or Russia both during and after the cold war that go forgotten because it isnt note worthy that a powerful military overpowers a weak one. we only talk about the underdogs because these cluster fucks are news worthy.Ukraine is only holding out so well because its war effort is being heavily backed by the west and its coldwar stockpiles (along with Russian incompetence), And they've been preparing for this conflict since they lost Crimea over a decade ago. The Russians were losing long before drone spam became the norm.and in Irans case they have been presumably preparing for this exact scenario for decades longer than most people on this board have been alive. All that on top of the fact that Iran like Switzerland is a mountain hellhole militarily. Theres a reason nobody besides Iraq went to war with them despite being one of the obvious problem states of the region.
>>65173181The defender has always been favored, what the fuck are you on about?>Drones have made it impossible for large and powerful conventional militaries to achieve decisive battlefield success even with overwhelming firepower. In the recent cases where it has (such as Azerbaijan vs Armenia and Israel vs Gaza/Lebanon), this was entirely due to the complete and total lack of support for the defender by other countries.Iran still got completely folded and they make all the drones, so that just makes no sense. Nobody will call Azerbaijan, Armenia, Lebanon or the Palestinians "large and powerful," and fewer would say Israel achieved no success.>This means that any thirdie country, no matter how large, incoherent and dysfunctional as Ukraine and the IRI, are basically unbeatable.Oh, you're a turdie retard. That makes sense.>It means that no superpower can compel a thirdie shithole to do anything even with the threat of direct military invasion unless it agrees or was pre-arranged to capitulate first like Venezuela.Yes, that means that no superpower can compel a lesser nation except for those times superpowers compel lesser nations.Typing all that out must have been exhausting. Time for an ice cold refreshing glass of bleach.
>>65173248Cope. The widespread perception outside /k/ is that the US failed to achieve any of its operational objectives
>>65173181>Does the current meta now favor the defenderObviously yes.Did you really have to start a thread asking whether water is wet?
>>65173466>ad populumThe widespread opinions of uninformed rubes is not the rebuttal you think it is, scamp.
>>65173181>Is defender advantage still a thing?This thread is so fucking retarded I want you to go apologize to God right now!
>>65173181>and must blow millions on interceptors against drones and missiles that cost thousandsor they can build their own cheap interceptors retard
>>65173242>its war effort is being heavily backed by the westfinancial backing yesand its coldwar stockpilesnot really. the scraps that got sent helped them hang in from late 2022/2023-2024, but now its mostly their own domestic mil industry filling in the demand. Beginning of 2022 was their own peace time stocks alongside some super limited droplets of western kit. Like a handful of javelins
>>65173521Those little guys are neat, don't see much footage of them in-use.
>>65173466Cant fail to reach them if you never determine what they are to begin with..
>>65173466"/k/ope" is the word you wanted to use, you still gave yourself away bunkertron.
>>65173181>nowAlways has always will.
>>65173542To be fair Trump made the same mistake Monke did of declaring an objective (regime change and complete destruction of Iran nuclear program) and I don't see Hegseth as being particularly brighter than Shoigu, it's just US has so much better weaponry and personnel it hasn't come nearly as close as Russia in terms of casualties and losses. Less than 50 people killed and a few AA and planes wrecked against a mountain country on the other side of the world can't compare with losing tens of thousands and the core of your armored brigades in the first weeks of war against an enemy living in a flat steppe a fraction of your size you have a border with.
>>65173181maybe don't start wars then? ever thought of that option?
>>65173604At least someone said it. Even field manuals say you need bare minimum a 3:1 advantage if on the attack.
>>65173181Can someone with more braincells explain why kevlar capes have not been deployed as protection for infantry?
>>65173628What do you think the kevlar cape is going to do?
>>65173640Block shrapnel from the exploding drone. I understand that it will not be enough on its own to take a direct hit, but I have seen numerous videos showing that quite a few soldiers that are killed by drones dodged a direct hit but still ended up with lethal shrapnel injuries when the drone detonated on the ground near them.
>>65173628The fuck is kevlar gonna do? unliquify your organs?
>>65173191everyone on /k/ is retarded
>>65173669if everyoen is retardednoone is
>>65173663I'm not saying it will mitigate the explosion, but I am talking about blocking shrapnel. Chest plates don't seem to be the best solution because the shrapnel from drone explosions tends to come from the ground up, so it is hitting soldiers in their legs.
>>65173679You can't wrap all the guys in enough armor to matter.FPVs can carry RPG warheads.
>>65173662>Block shrapnel from the exploding drone.OK. Why do you think even the most bitch baby forms of armor are form fitting vests and not just kevlar T-shirts?
>>65173679>Alpha-ARC trooper armoured skirtsunfortunately, this is the real world, ner vod
>>65173181We will see how Lebanon will play out but i think drones have become a big problem for Israelis there
>>65173686>>65173690>>65173693Guys I'm asking because I am not an expert on this subject at all. I'm not arguing, just inquiring.
>>65173611That's in a open field, it's like 10:1 for a prepared defense
>>65173709Kevlar isn't magic and works by having a heap of layers, the top ones will get penetrated and the lower ones will catch the bullet / frag.Anything thin enough to be a cape / shirt / jumper is way to thin to actually stop anything.
>>65173248>Iran still got completely foldedThey look pretty healthy for having been supposedly "completely folded" though? Like, dude. Get with the times. Not even CENTCOM and the CIA are pushing that narrative anymore.
>>65173749In that case, would something less mobile but thick enough be suitable for defensive purposes? Something like a kevlar blanket used by soldiers in trenches?
>>65173752nta, but I'd argue that the Iranians got completely folded and if the drone revolution hadn't happend they'd be shit out of luck right now.the drone revolution makes you that much more resilient because it increases the amount of targets you'd have to identify and service to negate a second strike by one to two magnitudes
>>65173756A heavy kevlar blanket to hang over doors / windows wouldn't the the worst idea, it would stop drones entering and probably survive several hits if you secured it well enough.As for wrapping yourself in it it would protect you from frag but having explosives go off that close to you will still fuck you up with the shockwave leading to "white butterfly" where all the blood vessles in your lungs burst and you drown in blood.
>>65173761Jeez well thank you for helping me better understand this. Definitely glad I am not facing this kind of danger.
>>65173709And what I'm asking you to do is examine why you think what you think. It's an effective method of teaching people. If you just want a straight up answer then I do think >>65173749>>65173761covered things pretty well.
All future building techniques will be constructed with consideration for drone warfare. At least in places where war is a risk. Who's to know if those designs will be adopted more so overall.. bars over windows nets above roofs and yards. Last Windows overall. False walls to absorb initial explosions. More trees being planted even. Random concrete blocks that stand 5 ft high on corners and streets just to have something to get behind when a large drone comes barreling into your city.
>>65173181Meta has usually favored the defender. The common belief was that you needed 3 times the combat power of the defender to take a position. The US's illusion of breaking this was down to our overwhelming firepower and post Cold War expertise.
>>65173764Yeah it's pretty horrific shit, I watch a medic volunteering in Ukraine and he is saying shockwave / over pressure injuries are the thing he sees these days.We have seen both sides 3d printing plastic bomb casings that are filled with ball bearings for frag but it's much less effort and so more common for them to fill a soda bottle or can with explosives and use that without any frag relying on blast injuries to kill.
>>65173770Military bases might have permanent nets / bars but it would be a maintance nightmare on civilian structures.Much cheaper and easier to just have stockpiles of nets that can be rapidly installed rather than having dead birds hanging from nets over the city during peacetime.
>>65173759NTA, the main thing stopping the US from destroying all of Irans power plants and dams isn't drones but the SRBMs and MRBMs Iran has threatened to use on every US ally in the ME in retaliation.Iran has been building BMs for a long time because they knew this day was coming, drones being here now just makes a ground invasion more costly but is still nothing compared to the MAD threat of hitting every power and desal plant in the ME.
>>65173181I don't see how Iran is winning. They're hiding underground and committing terrorism, after losing their navy, air force, proxy network, and industrial base.But yes, without meaningful airpower to suppress supply lines and logistical nodes, the threat of drones against traditional land forces is extremely high. See Ukraine in 2025 and beyond.
>>65173834>>65173836>and committing terrorismthis is the key: Europe and the Arab "allies" have signalled or overtly stated that they blame the US rather than the terrorists if the terrorists shoot the hostages
>>65173752They got romped by any objective measure. They just have good pr and a sympathetic ear in western media eager to smear Trump. Not to mention they've blacked out the internet and brutalized their population to suppress open source BDA.Are their limits to what bombing can accomplish against terrorists hiding in mountains? Yes. But you also have to consider the IRGC can only hide in caves and pay foreign thugs to oppress the 90 million people inside Iran for so long.If they didn't have Hormuz to commit blatant acts of piracy, they'd be fucked.
>>65173212Ukrainians are smart and crafty don't be a dick by not giving them honest credit.
>>65173834>drones but the SRBMs and MRBMs Iran has threatened to use on every US ally in the ME in retaliationand the swarms of lawnmower drones that swarmed those same targets making the US and Gulf arabs use munitions against SRBM's and MRBMs against said lawnmover drones
>>65173865Absolutely, at least in the early stages of the war they deftly exploited Russian failures, but those failures needed to exist. But they're not perfect, and politicians and generals can still be retarded and/or corrupt even if they're fighting for the "good" side. 2023 in particular was a disaster for the Ukies. A lot of people got killed and maimed in horrible counterattack and frontal assaults.
>>65173867yeah bud I'm sure the UAE and Saudis are just a week or two away from allying with Iran. Surely all the damage to civilian apartment and office buildings half a mile away from American bases is really destroying everything, evil amerikkkan empire crumbles before mighty persian lion
>>65173875I'm not saying there will be an instant shift but they are all pissed the US moved all interceptors to Israel and let everyone else eat shit.Starting a war then pull forces out of a dozen allies to protect one sends a strong message those allies don't like.
>65173867to find out more news they don't want you to know, join the Iran Shaheed Z channel
>>65173867The difference is Iran cannot coexist peacefully with its neighbors in the middle east. It has to slaughter its own people every 2-4 years, and its entire foreign policy is centered around sponsoring terrorism. Who do you think funded Hamas and promoted the strategy of using human shields to turn perceptions against Israel? They did the same thing in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and.Yemen. They are the monkey with a wrench and the fly in the ointment for the last decade of middle east. They're a 1970s regime in a 2020s world. Long overdue to take out the trash.
>>65173881That didn't happen though. U.S. had AA all through the region.
>>65173867>the world doesn't have good guy and bad guys, just bad guys bullying bad guysyep, life in Iran is exactly the same as life in the US
>>65173917Nooooooo you can't have absolute moral values. The U.S. is just as bad as opressive Islamic theocracies.
>>65173917>>65173925Anon I'm talking about geopol not domestic policy.As for domestic policy Finland is the most moral with socialized education, healthcare and housing
>>65173466It may be news to you, but the world isn't a one-dimensional binary and both can be true. The fact that Trump's admin made a shitshow it doesn't know how to run doesn't preclude you from being a turdie idiot.
>>65173934>I'm talking about geopol not domestic policyall "geopol" is in defence of domestic policy, idiot
>>65173958Lol no, it serves economics which has been global for over a century. Corporations aren't loyal to borders.
>>65173962there it ispull another bogeyman out of the meme hat
>>65173971>bogeymanIf you still don't understand how the world works after seeing a dozen CEOs join the POTUS on a "diplomatic mission" then you never will.
it really is a waste of time talking to turdies
>>65173950The funny thing about the shitshow is it hurts America the least and will probably have the effect of increasing U.S. exports and investment into the U.S.Literally can't lose.
>>65173843>why don't the allies we insulted follow us into Israel's next forever war?It is a mystery.
>>65174037>we won't defend our trade because Trump hurt our precious feefeesCertified woman moment, lmao
>>65174050The EU doesn't need to do shit because of the situation Trump got himself into.Either Trump reopens the strait or runs away like a bitch and makes himself and the US look like a joke.Trumps ego only leaves one option, fix it himself.
>>65174064>we'll just sit around and wait for a real man to solve our problemsCertified woman moment, lmao
>>65174076>start project>break everything>expect someone else to finish itSounds like my gf.
>>65174050>>65174076kekyou really rustled her jimmies
>>65173527Nigga, eastern Europe got completely drained of soviet tank hulls, they all got sent to Ukraine
>>65173527>now its mostly their own domestic mil industry filling in the demandUkraine manufacturing their own ABM interceptors now?
>>65174078>blame the person attempting to solve the problem instead of the third world monkeys causing it>certified woman moment, lmao
>>65174064>The EU will sit there and take it because they can't do shit Like a child waiting for mommy to finish shopping
>>65174089>solve the problemWhat problem? Iran was just sitting there like they have been for the last 20 years and then Israel got blacknail on a pedofile.
>>65174094>dem precious brown angel babies dindu nuffinCertified woman moment, lmao
>>65174094>Iran was just sitting there like they have been for the last 20 years>the Houthis overthrew Yemen and got ballistic missiles all by themselves
>>65174094You live in a fake reality built for you by foreign psyops (or, more likely, you know it's horseshit but it confirms your priors so you pretend to believe it).
>>65174094>pedofile Why do people who claim to hate pedophiles always sugar coat their protests?>inb4 i get shadow banned from muh socialsI wonder why those socials ban all legit talk about pedophiles.
>>65173181Meta has always favored defender, they only get two dice, but always win ties.
>>65174131>no, see, I haven't fallen for Iranian propaganda because I'm willing to cite a number 10x smaller than the number of protesters they actually killed so that I can compare them favorably against Iran's enemies Okay, retard.
>>65173181Drones didn't saved Russians in Mali,despite having there their drone elite here.Drones only favor stagnant/slow front.
It is day 1549 of the American Special Military Operation in the de-cartelization of Mexico. The US army had to retreat from the outskirts of Chihuahua. Despite being bombarded everyday since the beginning of the war by Sherman Calliopes, Tijuana was only recently liberated by the brave fighters of the 2nd tanks battalion of the US Marines, fielding the M60 sepV2 edition.The USA continues its terror campaign over mexican cities thanks to the supply of suicide drones by Afghanistan, as it’s too dangerous for the USAF to operate its F-4 Phantoms and F-105 Thunderchiefs above mexican airspace.As per Bloomberg, the US Armys MGM-52 Lance ballistic missile has proved itself to be a "silver bullet" to the Mexican HQ-9 SAM launchers donated by Cuba and Venezuela, allowing for some much needed breathing space for USAF pilots.The deathrow volunteers of the penal bataillon of BlackWater continue their offensive on San Rafael de las Tortillas (185 inhabitants) for the 5th month in a row despite enormous casualties, and successfully recaptured Miguel’s farm for the 8th time.Following the repeated losses from Mexican ballistic missiles and cartel semi-submersible marine drones crippling its forces, the US Navy’s Pacific Fleet doesn’t dare leaving its port in Honolulu.Swarms of Mexican FP-2 "Enchilada" long range strike drones have repedeatly struck Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri with the help of Jamaican intel, as the US MIM-23 Hawk batteries are critically low on ammo due to succeseful mexican strikes on Raytheon manufacturing facilities.From the White House, President for Life George H. W. Bush announced 3 months ago the recruitement of 40’000 mercenary fighters from South Vietnam to support the liberation forces of the Peoples Republic of Baja California, but none have been spotted on the front lines so far.Stay strong! Victory is near!
