In case you're interested.The nature of war has changed so much that AFU 3rd Assault Brigade has disbanded its sniper platoon.Drone warfare is more effective.The profession of a sniper is becoming a thing of the past.What are your thoughts on this?
>>65179722oh sure, when the Ukes do it they're being progressive, but when the USMC did it everyone said they were mad
>>65179722>Thoughts5.56/5.45 chads stay winning.
>>65179722>What are your thoughts on this?There will always be a need for a man who can remain concealed and observe a location for a prolonged period of time. There will always be a need for a man who can shoot better, at longer distances, than other men. Also, Ukrainians have manpower problems. Don't confuse them prioritizing the efficient use of a limited resource (warm bodies) by leveraging an almost unlimited resource (drones) for them making maximizing their lethality.
>>65179722Next step is building a quad drone around a marksman rifle. Landing struts, precise servos for aiming, and electronic optics.
>>65179730You got the timing wrong you grognard. It's like getting a girl, bad if you aim too early.
>>65179743Nah. Snipers have literally never made a difference in any conflict. >>65179754Lol that's retarded. For the weight of a big ass 338 Lapua at 20lbs you can have a dozen fpv drones with a km of range a pop with a small charge. A drone with a sniper rifle would be big enough to bust a tank.
>>65179722Aren’t snipers still effective in urban areas and rural fields?
>>65179722Both sides disbanded their Snipers early on due to artillery being so liberal. The technology behind drones has sped up so quickly and the prevalence of Thermal makes human recon a huge liability.
>>65179755>2023 is too early to ditch snipers for dronescome now
>>65179767She was only 2023 you sick fuck
>>65179722I think this is more of a side effect of information gather has shifted drastically. Cost effect a single shot is much less costly than a single FPV. But when it comes to spotting targets and reporting movements, which is a snipers biggest task, drones with thermals are on a totally different level than a a thermal drone.
I've been saying this for a about a month now, snipers are now useless and being one in Ukraine is a death sentence for either side. That's why that one zigger with 3 missing fingers on his right arm was assigned a sniper.
>>65179757It might surprise you to learn that there are a number of big drone types in use. Fpv drones with a 2kg payload cannot do everything.
>>65179722>The nature of war has changed so muchThe nature of war hasn't changed much at all. The same dynamics dominant in WW1 are dominant again in Ukraine.The vast majority of war is not the tactical level of combat.>The profession of a sniper is becoming a thing of the past.It's not. Brigade level sniper platoons just aren't worth the effort. Doctrinally snipers fulfill the role of marksmen in Soviet (and some other) militaries and those marksmen-snipers are going to keep existing. A sharpshooter who can take out a high value target extremely rapidly is always valuable.
>>65179764only post of any value ITT
>>65179743That's just the problem though. Drones are so prevalent that observation is virtually constant. Simply getting to the concealed position is incredibly difficult and dangerous, and trying to change position even more so. You are right that there will always be a space for them, but it'll be far smaller, and not with assault units certainly.
>>65179789I'd argue that remote controlled turrets will eliminate the concept of a sniper sitting in a spot waiting for a target to come along and that marksmen will just be integrated at the squad/platoon level as designated marksmen.
>>65179757>Nah. Snipers have literally never made a difference in any conflictAs opposed to what?They had their role and it was useful.
>>65179819>I'd argue that remote controlled turrets will eliminate the concept of a sniper sitting in a spotYes, that and just flying drones.A single quad copter with a thermal camera does the work of a dozen snipers in terms of surveillance.
>>65179743>Also, ukrainians have manpower problemszigger fantasies, always a projection. ukraine has no manpower issues at all. if anything ukraine cant process its new 'volunteers' fast enough
>>65179835You don't need to be a vatnik to point out that Ukraine is having a manpower shortage.
>>65179730>>6517973716 in barrels have always been peak, even the nazis and ziggers knew that in the 40s
>>65179882>Systems operatorwas another brilliancy that was very shortly proven rightand anon called ME a grog, lmao
>>65179887He's a low-level drone guy, right?
>>65179901basically squad drone and EW guy
>>65179882Does the automatic rifleman just get a bipod and told to shoot more? Or is it more than that?
>>65179759infrared changed everything about the risks
>>65179934the point of the concept is that it's just a designated tactical role which may change
>>65179743>There will always be a need for a man who can remain concealed and observe a location for a prolonged period of timeI'm sorry but this is like a cavalry officer saying there will always be the need for a mobile force that can deliver shock so you need to have horses, yes there is a need for observation, but we have tools that can perform that role orders of magnitude more effectively.Long range recon, special reconnaissance are dead too btw
>>65179967Wondering how well drones would do in high altitude, high vegetation, or high precipitation environments. On that note, how well do drones do in Ukraine when there's a snow or thunderstorm?
>>65179867>ukraine is having a manpower shortage.DOUBT>pic relatedukraine had a million man army. are zigroids seriously suggesting ukraine lost a million men? projection much?
>>65179722There will always be a role for the designated marksman but I'm not surprised that a brigade in Ukraine ended support for their sniper teams. In the Global War on Terror the role of sniper teams devolved into that of a glorified designated marksman/forward observer/air attack controller. That was before the proliferation of drones which I imagine hastened the end of true snipers/sniper teams.
>>65180002>ukraine is having a manpower shortage.>DOUBTYes, they do, for a variety of reasons:>https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2026/03/ukraine-military-russia-war-manpower-recruitment>https://edition.cnn.com/2026/04/20/europe/ukrainian-soldier-frontline-manpower-intl>https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraines-army-chief-orders-time-limit-frontline-troops-2026-04-30/>https://www.kyivpost.com/post/72827>https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-preparing-key-changes-to-mobilization-awol-policy-defense-minister-says-after-meeting-infantrymen/
>>65179887The US army was publishing opfor field manuals where the opfor used small tactical strike drones more than a decade ago, they knew already.
>>65179882>You get an m27!>You get an m27!>Everyone gets an m27!>>65179934this, everyone got an AKM except the DMR and GPMG guys
>>65179764Having children with Quiet.
>>65180044zelensky directly stated ukraine had a million man armywhere did 1 million men go then zigger? how could you have a million man army but simultaneously have a 'shortage', and need mass mobilization?>>65180157>"we purposely trained our selves incorrectly as a joke"
>>65179757>snipers have literally never made a difference in any conflict
>>65180278>kyivpost and kyivindependent are ziggers>the Ukraine general staff are ziggers>Oleksandr Syrskyi is a zigger>Mykhailo Fedorov is a zigger
>>65179757>nah, snipers have literally never made a difference in any conflict
>>65180288>Heh SMALL ARMS are what determines the efficacy of a campaign and whether or not its objectives are metGo read some actual fucking history instead of shitposting here for (You)'s, you bored retard.
>>65179764They didn'tThermals were not common and camo worked against them until year 3, not only that but snipers were still valuable inside buildings and as part of mobile squads and in the brush vs infantry and vehicles till early year 4.The ramping up of millions of drones a year in year 3-4 has slowly squeezed them out of even hardened building hidey spots, and thermals are now so common they find it difficult to move.Still, bunkers with snipers are still viable. As are servo controlled snipers.
>>65179781That was my entire point. A 20lb drone would be a tankbuster. Wasting it on carrying a rifle would be retarded.>>65180280Cool propaganda. Meanwhile tens on thousands, literally, got killed by artillery and SMGs. He did nothing of note. SMG gunners probably killed more people anyway.Not saying he's not a bad ass but he didn't actually change the war outcome.>>65180288Another propaganda piece. Like the Soviet women snipers.It meant nothing.
>>65180278>"we purposely trained our selves incorrectly as a joke"wtf you are talking about
>>65179743>Ukrainians have manpower problemsC'mon Ivan, you can do better than that.
>>65179722So sniping is now spec ops-only. No big deal. It's a hell of a lot harder to see where a single bullet came from than it is to see a goddamn drone.
>>65180286so where did the million men go?
A sniper rifle ands its targeting systems should be reduced to simply being a tagging system for fast attack aerial platforms (drones, rockets, etc) with the ability to fire a bullet from miles away as a secondary capability.Also I wonder if the world is ready for a drone built around long range sniping or if its an evolutionary dead end. Posting the sniper helicopter design from Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex
It'll be deprioritized until the drones vs. SHORAD rock paper scissors game starts to favor SHORAD again and then it'll come back. If we reach a point where every vehicle has some kind of short range AI powered laser/DEW point defense system fielded to it then all of a sudden drone based recon isn't as viable as it is today and we're back to having dudes crawl through the woods.
>>65180741Home. They literally went home. That's why there's so many AWOL reports. Turns out people you drag off the streets don't want to spend a decade dick measuring with Russia. It's been what? Five years now. Nfw id be out in the field that long. Especially these dudes since theyre pulling middle aged guys in their 30s-40s mostly. Fuck that.Don't forget the guys thatve been there since 2014 too.
>>65179882Peak yeah, just not for 5.56.
>>65180778>Home. They literally went homeyah "home" they went "home" alright
>>65180561Snipers were unofficially meant for harassing supply lines and killing officers. They've had their place.
>>65179722well atleast there will never be another thread about how great and untouchable snipers areSo thats a w in my Book
>>65180809when has this ever happened
>>65180778>Home. They literally went home. That's why there's so many AWOL reportslmao "AWOL".... back at "home".....
>>65179934No, it's literally that. I was in from 2014 through 2018, Marine Corps infantry. We were literally on deployment in Syria when the guys with SAWs had to hand them in for the IAR. The solution was they carry 11 mags instead of seven.Nobody was particularly happy about this. The issue with the saw, more than anything, was every one we had was worn the fuck out after almost two decades of GWOT and however long they may have been around before that. When they worked, they were fucking excellent. Quick change barrels, open bolt, belt fed, it was a no shit machine gun. The 416 is not a bad gun by any means, it's just not a machine gun and I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in the meetings where this decision was made. Thankfully we didn't get into any situation that needed a SAW. Though a POG did drop one which ND'd a burst into the hesco, that was an interesting morning on post.
>>65180907>The solution was they carry 11 mags instead of seven.The current standard is 22 btw It's very funny
>>65180934Jesus lol. Although I can't say I'm entirely surprised. I remember some interview with an old SOG guy and he said they carried an absolute shit ton of ammo, because if you get into some shit while over the fence, help is not coming, so you're going to have to shoot your way out. And firefights are generally determined by who shoots first and who shoots most. Of course America generally has access to combined arms but without a machine gun at the ready somebody's going to have to be doing a lot of shooting.
>>65179978how well does your sniper work in a jungle with a 30 yard view?
>>65180934>22 magswhat the fuck lmao
>>65180978You'd be surprised.
>>65180934>~1 lb each>~22-24 lb in ammo aloneholy fug RIP knees
>>65180741if you'd read the articles instead of niggering out, you'd have known
>>65179722>What are your thoughts on this? Regular snipers (with your basic-bitch 7.62 accurized bolt-action) are simply not that useful anymore. Designated marksmen (with semi-autos) are more flexible, and those giganigga crew-served mini-cannons have (much) greater range.
>>65181460It's the other way around. DMs have shitty 7.62 semi autos (in particular the M110A1 which is by all accounts a piece of shit) and nothing in inventory right now takes advantage of the capacity of 6.8mm for accuracy at extended ranges (and the M7 is a 4MOA garbage rod to boot). Actual snipers field .300 WinMag and .300 Norma Mag today, both easily capable of making shots over a mile out.
>>65181464>Actual snipers field .300 WinMag and .300 Norma Mag today, both easily capable of making shots over a mile out. But that's the specific job that's getting deleted. Not the 600-700 meter DM, nor the 3+ km mini-field gun.
>>65181514Deleted where? The US Army isn't getting rid of them. Also what does >the 3+ km mini-field gunrefer to? Are you talking about mortars? Lol
>>65179831Fighter pilots, ship and submarine captains have all made individual, decisive contributions to the outcome of a war in the past. Also I'm not sure snipers haven't, but the war that most supports that theory (1812) was before we had really good clarity of who did what. It is conspicuous that the ground element commander of all 3 of the britcuck invasion forces got sent back to Queer Island with a .58 cal hole in his forehead though.
>>65179743>There will always be a need for a man who can remain concealed and observe a location for a prolonged period of timeA drone can survey a much larger proportion of the battlefield.
>>65181770>>65179967A drone can observe open terrain and does so from an elevated angle. As powerful as thermal cameras are, they aren't some kind of x-ray vision. Infrared still behaves just like visible light.The more cluttered terrain becomes, the narrower the angle from which a drone can spot an individual trooper or vehicle. At worst, it can only detect the former from directly above (or horizontally through a window), and even then, the man in question might still succeed in remaining utterly obscured by branches (or walls or whatever). This problem is lesser from the infantryman's perspective, who is observing more horizontally, closer to level with his targets. A sniper, likewise, is not compelled to climb every tower and tree like a caricature of his collegiate. Strengths and weaknesses, the right tool for the right job.Of course things change if you're willing to take the drone right up close to the enemy. However, one of the traditional rules of reconnaissance is not to let the enemy know they're being observed. Unless you want them to, naturally. And you need to have a clue as to where they are, for a start.
>>65179722The loitering munition .... is the 21st Century equivalent of the mortar.Soon, it will be as natural for us to see the loitering munition platoon as an integral part of an infantry company in the same way that the organic mortar or ATGM platoon is. In fact, the loitering munition will eventually be able to replace both.In time, instead of a grenade launcher, every rifleman may even handcarry a packed FPV drone which can be used to drop explosives on the heads of the enemy. Signallers will not need to carry a sognal set or anntenae, a loitering UAV overhead will be able to function as a aerial rebro station. Forward air controllers will be obsolete as the UAV takes over. Commanders will not need a GPS, compass or binoculars, the UAV offers unlimited and unhindered line of sight as a navigation aid. UAVs will be able to carry out resupply missions by delivering ammunition, rations, and medical supplies to isolated units.Eventually ..... we may not even need to carry toilet paper into the field. The UAV will wipe our asses and act as a flying bidet
>>65179722>What are your thoughts on this?Absolutely valid.Imagine training some retard for years to snipe and infiltrate and exctract when a random guy with a basic 3 month fpv training can kill you HVT AND a tank?
>>65179722counter sniping is still a thing
>>65180540>Thermals were not common and camo worked against them until year 3,It's not even thermals.Read interview if Russian sniper. He was like>against ground observation gullie suit makes me invisible. Against drones not.And is not even thermal drones but DJI maviks, they have their own and run them against own positions and from top camo is not that effective against even TV camera.He mentioned that now their main job is shooting Ukrainian heavy night bomber drones, they are protected by darkness in the night, but with thermal scopes you can see and shoot them down.
>>65179730it's almost like only one of those two are fighting a full scale war and getting hard learned lessons
>>65181972you're that guy who has to cut / burn / break himself before ever learning how to do things the way everyone else does, ain't ya
>>65181959Mortars don't have eyes and can't kill tanks, especially moving tanks.
>>65181984>he doesn't know
>>65180741AWOL, dead or wounded to the point of being combat ineffective for life. Can't tell if you are actually this retarded or just a butt hurt Russian trying to make Uki shills look bad.
>>65182008>some cold war shit that never entered serviceReally cool anon
>>65181666>got sent back to Queer Island with a .58 cal hole in his forehead though.The Brits literally established an old colony with territory they took and their entire Napoleonic War vets were coming over to rape us. Canadians =! Brits. Also, they (Brits, not Leafs) burned down the White House and made the POTUS flee. Anybody coping over 1812 are retarded. It was only due to war fatigue that they didn't curb stomp us (and Wellington going 'what's the fucking point?' and running for leadership).
>>65182024it is, isn't it?this is the ancestor of Brimstone
>>65179743>no you see there will always be a niche for a horse in our life, and people choose cars because there aren't enough horses
>>65182021>AWOL, dead or wounded to the point of being combat ineffective for life. Can't tell if you are actually this retarded or just a butt hurt Russian trying to make Uki shills look bad.so wait zigger..youre saying ukraine has over 1 million dead/wounded-combat inneffective/AWOL troops? bold claim
>>65182024Swiss and swedes used 120mm Mw int G 96 STRIX so it entered service but afaik no wars.
>>65179867they canceled the foreign volunteer batallions for a reason there was a time were they accepted people that didnt even spoke slavis languages like brazilian or latinxs . theres a reason they stopped accepting those , the manpower problems isnt as bad as in 2024 at least
>>65179764what did he say to her to make her bobs laugh like that?
>>65182377>they accepted people that didnt even spoke slavis languages like brazilian or latinxsWay to out yourself as clueless. Colombians are the biggest group of foreign volunteers.
>>65182377They stopped bringing them in due to a plethora of other reasons like security risks, the poor quality of recruits, the fact that many had no prior military or if they did they still needed more training etc. Ukraine has a well documented manpower problem.
>>65179737Truly the perfect rifleman's cartridge.
>>65182455If they actually had a manpower problem they'd be more than happy to take volunteers and train them up.
>>65179743>There will always be a need for a man who can remain concealed and observe a location for a prolonged period of time.drone>There will always be a need for a man who can shoot better, at longer distances, than other menhit them with a drone.the sniper team will still exist. there just wont be a sniper rifle. itll be a drone.
>>65184075Until drones can maintain observation for longer than a couple hours, a dude in the woods is better. And even once that no longer becomes the case, once SHORAD becomes cheap and spammable to the point drones currently are, you're right back to relying on dudes in the woods again.
>>65184085>Until drones can maintain observation for longer than a couple hours, a dude in the woods is better.you know whats better then that? a dude in the woods. with a drone.>once SHORAD becomes cheap and spammable to the point drones currently arewhich they will ALWAYS need to have, because of the risk of a man in the woods with a drone>you're right back to relying on dudes in the woods again.a dude in the woods with a drone.honestly i dont think sniper teams will disappear, sure, there will be a good reason to have a sniper who can do all that. its just, you can also give those same guys a drone, theres literally no reason not do it, and itll always be safer to try to use the drone first. sniper rifles will become the "back up" weapon.
>>65181526>refer to?12.7++ rifles obviously
>>65182964foreign volunteers are more trouble than they're worth at this point, given the security and optics and training problem>and train them uphalf their problem anon is that they don't have enough trainersgo read up why the Japs lost the carrier war
>>65179722I like how the thought of infantry slowly losing more and more importance in warfare makes all the ooperator larpers on this board seethe relentessly. The future belongs to post-heroic machines.
>>65181822>does so from an elevated angleWhich is a 100x better in almost every conceivable scenario compared to horizontal ovservation.
>>65181972the ukraine war is a bumfight and we should not change up our entire military structured based off of a bumfight.
>>65184419Disregarding you exaggerating numbers... And still it has it's limitations, I've learned. It is A tool, not THE tool. It's a very useful augmentation to more conventional observation, but on its own quite inflexible and can be countered by an enemy acting with knowledge and intent.You can recognize its noise at several hundred meters, so to remain undetected it must remain at a distance. While this is lessened by optics and thermals (which a basic infantryman can also carry), it allows for more places to hide from its prying eye(s). A drone cannot eavesdrop on the enemy. A drone is reliant on cables to avoid jamming and detection, limiting its range from the operator. Particularly if you prefer the cable not to tangle. A drone cannot hide in the underbrush or fly in even less-than-dense woods. Or when the wind is too strong, or the temperature and humidity is wrong. Imagine experiencing a close-call with a device costing a good chunk of your yearly pay, because the blades started icing up and the operator had to snatch-and-flip it mid-air as it stalled seconds before a hurried landing.Recon aircraft, more traditional unmanned aircraft, and satellites were envisioned by some as becoming the dominant source of battlefield data throughout the 80's and 90's, and even the early 2000's. But they merely joined the ranks.So why sacrifice having several perspectives for just one?
>>65184669There's nothing exaggerated about his claim.A drone at an altitude of a mere 200m has ten times the horizon distance compared to standing human allowing it to observe an area 100 times as big.Any terrain skews this even more in favour of the drone.
>>65179833Drones are extremely visible, noisy and hard to miss. They're not a substitute for a long range shooter and won't be for some time. Snipers also don't get jammed, and you can't stop a sniper's shot with a net.
>>65184696Only if you live in gm_flatgrass ca. 2006
