"COWARDS WILL BE SHOT!"How common was this tactic during The Battle of Stalingrad and how did The Red Army ever win if they used it?
>>65186319Imagine if they sent waves of women instead? How effective would that be?
The mobilization of civilians and the shortage of weapons were probably more prevalent during the Battle of Moscow the previous year.
>>65186319So common that they still use it today.
>>65186319My nigger, the red army still uses it today in 2026.
>>65186319>COWARDS WILL BE SHOT-sun tzu
>>65186319Never. If an officer did that under Chuikovs command he would have personally caved their head in. The only real advantage he had was manpower and wasting it pissed him off. Were there desperate charges into enemy positions? Of course, but the idea that there were political officers waiting to shoot retreating troops at every single battle didnt actually happen.
>>65186319>how did The Red Army ever win
>>65186319I used to think this was bullshit, but then I saw what Russia is doing now and well…
>>65186319Russians hate this movie because they depicted the MC as a illiterate retard(while IRL he was fairly educated), the love triangle subplot(that never happened IRL) and mostly importantly for depicting the Red Army as a bunch of under equipped savages who killed retreating soldiers and forced them to share rifles.Its up to you decide if this criticism is fair or not.
I remember there was a big push trying to "debunk" the human meatwave in Stalingrad a few years ago, but now, with recent events that show actual recordings of wave attacks and blocking detachments, it really killed that push.
>>65186319>"COWARDS WILL BE SHOT!">How common was this tactic during The Battle of Stalingrad very
>>65186434Revisionists and the revisionists of the revisionists. Turns out what we knew back in the 1950s was actually the truth, and everything afterward has been dishonestly spread by politically and economically deaf historians who couldn't/still cannot wrap their minds around the fact the soviets were animals
>>65186437"Altogether, it transpired that some 13,500 [Soviet troops] were executed by their own side, by the Red Army -- in fact, usually by SMERSH (counterintelligence) or special divisions of the NKVD (secret police) -- during the course of the battle. There were blocking groups behind the troops to prevent them retreating.It was an extraordinary mixture of both courage and coercion. There were terrifying reports of the way soldiers were executed. Sometimes they weren’t even shot properly because the firing party was partly drunk or whatever it may have been. They would then dig themselves out of the shell hole into which their body had been thrown, reappear, and then be shot again. So there were some really terrible sides to it."Anthony Beevoir
>>65186449He also said "Ukrainian nationalists were tasked with shooting the children" so that they could "spare the feelings of SS Sonderkommando"
>>65186458That is actually true.
>>65186443Putin tried to hire a PR form in belgium to 'improve stalins image' prior to the 2022 invasion. Actual history books like Anthony Beevoirs Stalingrad (which was vased on archive access in Russia he obtained prior to Putinism) are banned in Russia and Russians are taught that WW2 started in 1941 and not taught that Stalin invaded Poland with Hitler as his ally by treaty. IN fact Russian propdandists have scripts to attack Beevoirs book and bizzarely enough try and label him a fascist sympathiser, a bit like them Calling Jewish Zelensky a Nazi. They have decided anhing that disagrees with Putin 'is a Nazi'Watch this made before the 2022 invasion to understand what you are dealing with when you discuss Putins Russia.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qlUoL-GQ-kIt's a deliberately fostered cult based around WW2. They even shifte the cold communist may day parade to the 9th and called it victory day instead.
>>65186458They probably were, aside from that about a million Russians/Soviets fought for the Germans.
>>65186464I don't care what those retards in Russia think. I'm more complaining that western intellectuals still are soft on communism>oh it's a great idea just never done rightNo. It's objectively evil. These morons write the books and teach the lectures that are based upon a belief that the soviets weren't bad guys.
>>65186464>They even shifted the old communist may day parade to the 9th and called it victory day instead.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsilskcZmccSoviet May 1st Parade, Red Square 1974"It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grammes a week."— Part 1, Chapter 3 1984
>>65186473>>65186473>I'm more complaining that western intellectuals still are soft on communismYou could not be more wrong these are the accepted academic master works on it and very clearlt demonstrate that tyranny and murder was intrinsic to the core marxist principle and theory
>>65186480Once I see conservatives start popping out of universities rather than strictly card-carrying communists, I'll entertain your claim.
>>65186428I read in The Forgotten soldier, the author said he and his group of soldiers were separated from the Russians by a minefield. The Russians sent a wave of Mongolian soldiers across to clear it lol.
>>65186401I actually kind of believe that it was a Russian cultural thing that Chuikov and non-orc members of the SSR suppressed that was practiced by Moscoweiners when given their own, unadulterated units.
>>65186319>How common was this tactic who knows.
>>65186480"Considered the definitive work on the subject" (The New York Times), Main Currents of Marxism is now in one paperback volume. "A monument of modern humanistic scholarship... It will surely not be superseded." New York Review of Books "Leszek Kolokowki is one of the world's greatest living political philosophers and historians of ideas... Norton have reissued his magnum opus, Main Currents of Marxism, in a handsome single volume." Timothy Garton Ash, Books of the Year, The Times Literary Supplement "...indispensable... an unmatched encyclopaedia of a major passage in Western intellectual history, but the enduring interest of this masterly volume does not come chiefly from the mass of useful information it provides. Instead, it lies in Kolokowski's devastating assessment of Marx's thought." John Gray, The Times Higher Education Supplement"The work in detail and very exactly explains why the rise of a Stalin was inevitable given the very ideas enshrined in marxism and that tyranny is it's inevitable conclusion.
>>65186485>>65186473>I'm more complaining that western intellectuals still are soft on communism>>65186485>Once I see conservatives start popping out of universities rather than strictly card-carrying communists, I'll entertain your claim.You are wrong. That is your perception but it is not the truth. I have a degree in political science (and several others). I have shot more communist than you. The fact is most people who label themselves communists have absolutely no idea what maxism is and know very little about it, they think it is something to do with a moral disposition towards the poor, or perhaps a moral anger against the wealthy when in fact is is neither. Marx who was right about absolutely nothing saw his ideas as inevitable definite outcomes, without any moral or other attribution. The basis the very core of neo hegelian marxism is the dialecticIt says to opposite ideas combine to prouce a new idea, which then develop an opposite an so the cycle continues. This is at it's core wrong and that can be readily demonstrated.Thesis2+4=4Antithesis2+2=5Synthesis2+2=4.5But that is NOT how thought or ideas have evolved at allWhat actually happensTruth2+2=4Falsehood2+2=5Rational and empirical conclusion is reached and falsehood is discarded.The flaw goes back further to Hegal who like Marx m ost people never actual read, they certainly don't learh German to read Hegel either at bes he read commenary works. Hegel is and was garbage, the neo hegelians as a consequence were also.Interestingly enough the very first work of marx the paris manuscripts contain nothing of his later marxism and are purely a moral arguement for pseudo socialism.Personally and for very good reasons having examine the original letters of marx to his father in law, I believe his later 'work' was writen for him by the Prussian civil service, which he acted as a subversion agent for, initially in France and then in the UK.
>>65186443Many such cases across academia!Just look at the mind virus intersectional marxism and how it's the way ALL minority advocacy is done these days. It's literally a Marxist revolutionary plot that plans on using those it's allegedly advocating for as revolutionary cannon fodder. Any attempt at integration is actively discouraged in favor of being as disruptive and obnoxious as possible in hopes of getting evil capitalists to hit you and make martyrs thus progressing The Revolution™I hate the negress kimberlé crenshaw so much it's unreal.
>>65186520*discouraged as "respectability politics"
>>65186518same You can in fact see his mehod of subversion used by Prussia against other German states it wished to undermine politically during the unification campaigns conducted by Bismark. A more transparent and perhaps ultimate window into this was he sending of lenin in a rain wih a prining press and his companions and a mountain of forged roubles into Russia to destabalis it and force Russias exis from WW1. Lenin was a prussian agent. In fact stalin poisioned him for that after Lenin hung Stalin out to dry during the polish soviet war (it was during this that Stalin realised that lenins loyalties lay with Prussia not Russia). Bothe Hitler and Stalin would have been aware of all this. Modern 'marxists' are absolute bottom feeders usually absolutely illiterate in marxism itself..
>>65186491zhukov supposedly was in favour of them but stalingrad was a real siege not human wave tactics, hard to human wave fighting over literally 100 meters of warehouse for weeks
>>65186520>Just look at the mind virus intersectional marxism and how it's the way ALL minority advocacy is done these days. It's literally a Marxist revolutionary plot that plans on using those it's allegedly advocating for as revolutionary cannon fodder.No it is the work of John Rawls, who I have no fondness for but it is not Marxist (and I do not agree with, there can be no righs wihout duties). If you are going to shit on about something you have an obligation to know something about it.
>>65186491>>65186533You boh seem to forget that the NKVD controled he river crossing, they did no need much of a blocking force once they had dumped men inover the river ino he cauldron. hey did of acouse shoot 10-20 thousand Russians including troops during the fighting and masses more after the German defeat (including ones who fought with he germans) but there were no female snipers in stalingrad and they did not need blocking forces so much once he had deposited men over the river. enemy at he gaes is a errible historical depiction stalingrad 1995 is the best one(by he guy who did das boot)
The most generous take is shear incompetence. Soviet casualty rates remained the same all the way to the end. From the Axis at their strongest to when they had full lend/lease and the Axis had no more vehicles/fuel/air support.
>>65186547>There are no records of barrier troops in the Soviet Union military.You are a liar, ha is exacl what he NkVD and smersh did afer stalins not a step back order. are you a russian propaganist or were you educaed in Putins russia and brainwashed there
The facts, stalin had about 13500 of his own troops shot during the battle of stalingrad after the ' no a step back order'. There was also no way for men to retreat back over the river because he NKVD controled he crossing. The servent of a new bloody handed Russian tyrant appears to be wih us. now delightful.>>65186547>There are no records of barrier troops in the Soviet Union military. The concept, however, was ironically first employed by the British at the Battle of Mons in WW1, and continued to be used during WW2 most notably at El Alamein, where entire Indian rifle divisions were cut down by British machine gun fire after they attempted to fall back.What a worthless idiot.
>>65186555OK you're a russian propagandist. Got it. Are you an Indian or a Russian?
>>65186549ah fair point
>>65186555Do you think that Putins propaganists should be tried for war crimes such as participating in the execution and torture of POWs by posting footage in an organised and coordinated way as paid state employees or incitement to rape female POWs? It's quite an important point for you to consider.
>>65186572NTA but that's actually an interesting question. I think yes
>>65186576Fair enough
>>65186464>They have decided anhing that disagrees with Putin 'is a Nazi'That's been a thing for a long while now. To a Russian, the biggest and most defining part of nazism is being anti-Russian. Anything else is negotiable. You may or may not want to construct the worlds largest oven and put every jew on earth in it, you may or may not cover yourself in nazi symbols, you may or may not self identify as a nazi, none of that is considered an indication of being a nazi. Only being anti-russian. Anti-russian jews are nazis. Of course, Putin = Russia so anyone that's anti-Putin is also a nazi.
>>65186458The detrimental psychological impacts of being forced to shoot women, children and old people while they cry and pray for mercy were well known by the nazis at that point and probably played a role in the descision to switch to gas chambers for killing "undesirables"
>>65186319Not.
>>65186458Ukrainian nationalists were pretty hardcore with how monstrous their crimes were and Nazis were more than happy to use their pre-existing hatred for their own purposes.It is a bit of a thorn in modern Ukrainian side that a whole bunch of their "founding fathers" were doing some heinous shit and there is enough of a propaganda war surrounding it that it's likely to result in shitflinging online, especially since certain unnamed country hostile to Ukraine really wants to use it to drive a wedge between them, Poland and more broadly the international opinion, so I'm not surprised someone who wouldn't know better would think it's an invented story.
>>65186553So you can provide these records?
>>65186611> switch to gas chambers for killingAbout as believable as any other russian lie
>>65186642Not him, but it's true. The meme about Himmler losing his lunch over watching shootings isn't a lie, which led to the more "clean" killings.
>>65186648There is no evidence delousing chambers were used for executions and they would be a horrible method of execution if they were, the only places they were alleged to have been used were 'discovered' by soviets who altered camps to tell whatever bullshit they invented
>>65186473No serious academic promotes communism, the entire democratic socialist movement was founded on the basis of communism being an objective failure, thus proving the need for a way to develop and implement socialist policy that does not leave a nation vulnerable to authoritarian takeover
>>65186652I'm talking about the vans in this instance.
>>65186485Conservatism is a matter of perspective.From my perspective as an Australian, most professors and graduates from American universities are centre right conservatives
>>65186661I'm not really familiar with them so I will concede my ignorance
>>65186520I disagree and believe instead a conspiracy theory that hyper identity politics (of which intersectional Marxism is a branch) was specifically developed as a poison pill to neuter western social moments in general (such as what happened to occupy wall st) and to harm climate advocacy in particular by forcing unnecessarily exclusionary principles into the movement to limit its appeal.There is no good reason why someone's opinion on trans rights, for example, should influence whether or not they are allowed to participate in a discussion on climate change and yet for many green parties across the west the requirement for a specific position on that issue is directly written into their policy
>>65186661The soviets did that in the time of the early red terror. Every accusation is a confession, the horrors in the gulags are projected onto others to deflect the many crimes of the soviet tyrants.
>>65186485>Once I see conservatives start popping out of universitiesThey pop out of them all the fucking time, you just don't interact with them because they're a whole social class above yours lol.You think the Wall Street suits who got their MBAs from Harvard, Wharton, etc... are lefties? You think all the French business execs from HEC are voting for Melenchon? come on bro
>>65186555>ESL or stroke. Call it.Drunk and mad
>>65186733Been there a lot of times
>>65186334 We'd still be laughing at it today
>>65186707>You think all the French business execs from HEC are voting for Melenchon?Well those are voting for Macron. Which is not much different from Melenchon.
>>65186319It was common starting in July 1942, if you retreated, your jewish commissar would pop you in the head, it's still a tactic used in the 3 day SMO btw.
>>65186424>>65186434People say it was a myth and Enemy of the Gates probably did get a lot of things wrong, but I was watching a glorious and epic Soviet war movie from the 1970s (Comrade Brezhnev seal of approval) where an officer whips out a pistol and threatens to shoot soldiers for retreating during a Panzer assault so lol they probably did that shit (43:30)https://youtu.be/9ZraM-TvRXA>>65186464>Actual history books like Anthony Beevoirs StalingradInspired Mark Corrigan's pickup line:https://youtu.be/8GVXIaJy6QA
Not veryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAfo5mse-ag&list=PLNSNgGzaledi9jQeOzCUtBP2pxYdCYiXX
>>65186752>Mark Corrigan12 years after first watching it, I'm still terrified of how little difference there is between he and I. Hell I even became a shittier and shittier person on a similar timeline over similar things
>>65186334You joke, but one of the reported instances of the 6th Army engaging Soviet troops without adequate numbers of rifles that inspired the opening battle in Enemy at the Gates involved an anti-aircraft artillery regiment partially staffed by women. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziH9fleTWQMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK4RzpUrv80
>>65186607>That's been a thing for a long while now. To a Russian, the biggest and most defining part of nazism is being anti-Russian. Anything else is negotiable. Look up Konstantin Vasilyev and Ilya Glazunov if you want to see some wild paintings that started being produced in the waning days of the USSR.>>65186675>I disagree and believe instead a conspiracy theory that hyper identity politics (of which intersectional Marxism is a branch) was specifically developed as a poison pill to neuter western social moments in generalI can understand why that sounds compelling because of the effects it has, a lot of that hyper-identity politics stuff is so elaborate that I don't think any intelligence agency could've genuinely come up with it. I have a kind of pseudo-"Marxist" feeling that it's more like an emergent phenomenon that reflects anxieties and incentives of a social strata that's embedded in a certain economic "substructure." Especially academia. For example in competitive academic programs there are a limited number of PhDs they're going to give out, and a limited number of jobs for those PhDs, but you can eliminate the competition by cancelling somebody. There's also a whole logophilia or logophobia (like obsession with words and symbols) with academics whose skills are with deconstructing and assembling very precise language, so any little thing can be grounds to have a struggle session.Also social media is really vapid and was rewarding this kind of behavior, people were building brands (cultural capital) by setting themselves up as gatekeepers and identities also become like brands like Marvel or Star Wars movie fandoms. At the same time the people involved really thought they were doing something good by fucking somebody's life up, but that's what makes any ideology convincing for the people who believe in it. But I think a lot of it is really about competitive status-seeking.
>>65186401>>65186491The Red Army was literally more Belarussian and Ukrainian than it was Russian.
>>65186473You might just as well ask why modern conservatives are so willing to stump for modern Russia. The answer is simple: Russia's one real talent is subversion.
>>65186812I don't think I've ever known any irl pro-russia people that weren't already themselves Russian
>>65186487Anti-Asian discrimination was utterly rampant in the Soviet Union (the NKVD was in the process of massacring/deporting the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and various Central Asian minorities before the war even began), so even though I wouldn't exactly call The Forgotten Soldier the most trustworthy source, that sounds completely believable.
>>65186817>Anti-Asian discrimination was utterly rampant in the Soviet Unionstill is TODAY
>>65186820Well that goes without saying
>>65186752>Mark CorriganBased Jeremy, Based
>>65186774You're alright with me mate. All marks together with the odd jeremy.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbEpXceeHoM
>>65186831Kek'd. >I'M IN THE Ardennes https://youtu.be/mjlGrDaPg14?si=tUPvB4kY6gnZmH_zWhich bit was it where he said things were less scary if he thought of it as war instead of whatever mundane reality he was actually contending with?
>>65186657You are a fucking fool. Communism, socialism, "democratic socialism", and all of marxism's retarded offspring will always inevitably end up with the same fucking outcome. It is quite possibly the most evil of all ideologies because it is incapable of being honest with itself and its half-brained cultists have no introspection whatsoever. Not to mention how many so called "democratic socialists" openly praise communism because NEWSFLASH that is their ultimate goal, almost like its all bullshit and they just see "socialism" as phase one. Plus most that are already commies in the first place. I dont know what it will take for this evil and retarded ideology to die once and for all.Dilate
>>65186866100% agreed>>65186657sorry, but>democratic socialistis at best a fantasy of having one's cake and eating it too, or at worst a Trojan horseCommunism is basically fascism but the people at the top "promise" that they're doing it "for the greater good" of all the "workers", swear on me maSocdems are exactly the same except you voted for itin Communism and Socialism both, the State dominates the "allocation of capital", aka the economy. you can see this very prevalently in Socdem Europe where HALF the economic output of the nation is planned by Government officials, and regulations keep a tight rein on the other half.and the result is picrel:an economy that averaged 3% in real growth until 2007/8 when the house of cards collapsed, and then averaged 1.4-ish%, struggling to achieve 2%, punctuated by wild swings up and down.Bottom line: You cannot get away from the pitfalls of a centrally-planned economy just by voting for it, and giving it a misleading label.
>>65186319>how did The Red Army ever win if they used it?They had more soldiers than Germans, or Finns, had bullets. No matter how many reds were mowed down, more just kept coming. Why spend money manufacturing guns and ammo when you can just send waves of humans and pocket the money.
>>65186443>by politically and economically deaf historians who couldn't/still cannot wrap their minds around the fact the soviets were animalsIt's worse. 1. Some of those historians are actual retarded autists in a sense that they can't comprehend a world where "primary sources" are actually bullshit and the whole state apparatus top to bottom lies, even where there's no benefit to do so. They'll argue in good faith until they're blue in the face that things didn't happen because the sources don't support it, even if a 5 minute talk with actual people whom lived though the experience would easily prove otherwise.2. Some others are just closeted and not so closeted commies or other types of fags with a conflict of interest. From western journalists and media faggots who whitewashed Stalin and USSR before WW2, to the point of denying Holodomor and such (e.g. NYT, Walter Duranty) to societies and systems overall. Just like the "clean wehrmacht myth" was built out due to political reasons of easing people into the idea that their allies in NATO are the guys there were recently fighting against. Well, in the similar manner USSR was whitewashed because it would be politically bad to acknowledge that the major ally in WW2 was actually worse than Nazi Germany and cucked policians left half of Europe (including Poland, supporting which started the whole war) occupied by those commie subhumans.And this didn't change magically now. There are whole stratas of faggots in the west who continue to carry water for russia. I'm not even talking about corrupt retards like Orbman and most "right-wing" parties in Europe being on the Kremlin payroll, but how the current administration is full of pro-ziggers. Or how people all across the subhuman aisle from Cuck Chomsky to Tucker Carlson are rooting for russia. There are generation after generation of cucked degenerates who can't help themselves but to glaze russia and russian shit. All those tolstoyevsky art whores for example.
>>65186632>Ukrainian nationalists were pretty hardcore with how monstrous their crimesLiterally commie propaganda.
ITT: nazi posting so hard you start having to pretend commies are the only ones who punish retreating without orders or do assaults on prepared positions.
>>65186319>The Red Army ever win if they used it?by having hordes of few willing and many unwilling men
>>65186661>vansYou mean the ones used by USSR and colloqualy called "dushegoobka" (something like "soul destroyer")?
>>65186751>if you retreated, your jewish commissar would pop you in the headHave you been taking sinfest seriously now that his contrariness and search for an audience has reached Hitler phase?
>>65186611Not trying to sound edgy here but I think I would probably be pretty good at this. I don't think I am a clinical psychopath because I do feel empathy, but not towards humans. It feels as if the flock mentality of being a human never developed in my brain. I probably deserve death in turn.
>>65186319>enemy at the gatesBuddy, basically the sole accurate thing about that movie is, that there was a city called Stalingrad and there was a battle there in the first half of the 20th century.
Communists will deny the existence of human wave attacks while simultaneously bragging about how they lost 27 million people in a mostly defensive war against a weaker opponent while being bankrolled by Anglo capitalists.
>>There are no records of barrier troops in the Soviet Union military. The concept, however, was ironically first employed by the British at the Battle of Mons in WW1, and continued to be used during WW2 most notably at El Alamein, where entire Indian rifle divisions were cut down by British machine gun fire after they attempted to fall back.The russian shill tries to deflect to the UK, with the addition of racism to shield his own peoples crimes through outrageBasically textbook
>>65186740I still laugh at meatwaves of Russian conscripts marching into slaughter so nothing would change.
>>65186948Tats has gone absolutly retarded at this point
>>65186919After a certain point one asks himself if, in the long run, it wouldn't have been better if the other side won. Sure, Nazi high-command were lunatics and the ideology had some seriously dysfunctional flaws. But what would the world look like in 2026 then? Would Eastern Europe have suffered as bad? Would Western Europe be overrun by browns? Would trannies be reading children's stories to kindergarteners? I can't think of anything more evil and cruel than the Societ Union and communism and all what communism gave rise to.
>>65187003>Sure, Nazi high-command were lunatics and the ideology had some seriously dysfunctional flawsAnd USSR weren't lmao?>After a certain point one asks himself if, in the long run, it wouldn't have been better if the other side won.Nah, Churchill was right. US Army should've marched to Moscow in 1945. The Red Army existed on fumes and survived on western supplies. I won't even go into the air force and bomber stuff.
>>65187003>I can't think of anything more evil and cruel than the Societ Union and communism and all what communism gave rise to.That would be fascismthere is no real difference between Nazism and Communism other than that Nazism add the twist of Aryan racismif the State Duma had decided that trannyism was to be embraced by the Union, then they would have mandated it, and to even worse extent than what the Democrats have
>>65187007>And USSR weren't lmao?You're welcome to read the rest of my post too, if you want to.
>>65186995I'm still waiting for Putin to cash in on his best demographic. the menopausal regiments. All those dried up bush babushkas out there, hot flushes to cold graves
>>65187026They are the core of the regime, they will never be sent to the meatwaves. They are what form the servile bydlo which gets sent through the upbringing.
>>65187026Christ what a fucked up society.
>>65186502>When the man with the rifle gets droned, the next man takes the rifle, and gets droned!>The vests arer temu airsoft props, do not pay attention to the vests!>Forwards, comrades! King monke orders us!
>>65187007Churchill was a depressed drunk who constantly based his political positions on personal gain, rather than principle. He was notoriously horrible with money and foresight, so it's no surprise he left Britain bankrupt and in a situation where it couldn't maintain an empire.
>>65186319Never happened like that. NKVD blocking units were positioned well behind the front line. Their main mission was to catch stragglers, not even deserters necessarily.Pretty much every army had something like that. No doubt the USSR killed a lot more cowards and deserters then the western allies.Commissars were a different thing. Ironically it was the Nazis and Hitler, starting with Paulus in Stalingrad, the ones who straight up ordered soldiers to fight to the death. As they retreated west Hitler would become more and more involved with the war planing and order plenty of last stands in fortress cities.Oh, and in Stalingrad no one needed much motivation to close with the enemy ("hug the enemy"), as this was their only protection against aviation and artillery.
>>65187029They really are part of the mucus that holds russian society together, ever since most of their dads went down the shop for vodka and cigs, never came backMostly I just find the thought of a herd of dried up cunts complaining somewhere in the backlines annoying everyone to the point of joining the assault corps>>65187034There's some depth to the shit, its all they got! Not like anything of much use to humanity has slopped out of Russia in half of forever
>>65187034>self-removal as the goal to strive towards Are you fucking kidding me?
>>65187050>Churchill was a depressed drunk who constantly based his political positions on personal gain, rather than principleStill was right
>>65187051>Never happened like that.>NKVD blocking units were positioned well behind the front line. Their main mission was to catch stragglers, not even deserters necessarily.Even people in russia don't spout this bullshit lmao
>>65187051Cool llies, bro. Stalin's 'not one step back' order codified the Soivet union shooting shitloads of people surreedered, deserted, or were accused of such things, long before any orders by Hitler.
>>65187057Considering that Operation Unthinkable was devised around the issue of Poland, I'd consider it another example of Churchill flip-flopping, seeing as he didn't seem to give a fuck about the Soviet invasion in 1939.>"That the Russian armies should stand on this line was clearly necessary for the safety of Russia against the Nazi menace. At any rate, the line is there, and an Eastern Front has been created which Nazi Germany does not dare assail."
>>65187052Do they yreallize that their daughters will aat best be concubines for the Chinese owners, and tehir sons and husbands will just get droned in Ukraine?
>>65187052>"I'm le trans-baikal villager">euro style AC in the corner>new white walls>euro doors >no account nameI'm sorry, but this bitch be lying.
>>65187078Does the cow in the field understand cattle futures on the stock exchange? Does it wonder why when it follows all the other cows into the train wagon?MУУУУУУУУ
>>65187129https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA5lujNlkn8
>>65186518>>65186531Based and actually knows ball pilled.>>65186866Cultist is the actual proper explanation of the mentality these people hold. They are just the modern version of the “Jesus Freak” culture that spawned all the most famous cults of the 60s-80s.>Be dreg of society>Addicted to drugs, convicted felon, social outcast, incel, etc.>Miserable existence>The weirdos with the strange haircuts offer you food/housing/sex/whatever>You know they’re weird but they actually aren’t so bad>Get brief glimpse of unearned inclusion>Go full retard defending and advancing the only agenda that has ever improved your life>Advance into the higher echelon of cult>Suddenly you’re holding an AK to a grandmas head and forcing her to scoop up Mr. Mugs shit while New Jesus fucks your wife.The only real saving grace is that these retards are now anarchists as well that never have a “leader” according to them (they do and it’s usually groups like DSA) and only have “organizers” (that also happen to be members of the DSA) so they can protect themselves legally from RICO charges when they chimp out in the street. The decentralization tactic is an interesting one as it parallels modern warfare tactics to deal with scaling issues but is also extremely ironic as it directly shows the value of NOT having a centralized figurehead and control. Those skinny trannies on HRT throwing bricks aren’t foot soldiers for the communist rebellion. We didn’t tell them to do that. They did it by themselves. We aren’t liable. Also the next protest is here on this day. No no no. I’m not their leader. We don’t believe in that. Kek. The good news is it’s a self limiting exercise until some shitheel politician finally gets the balls to openly use them as brown shirts like De Blasio tried to and then their progress gets wiped back to square one.
>be me>watch this movie>think "lol surely it wasnt that bad">read that russian historians critized it >yeah thought so>ask russian friend>he says he thinks its pretty accurate>I say no way>cut to 2023>chechen barrier troop video dropsMan, as a kid I though O'Neill was too hard on them.Turns out he was soft.
>>65187003My grandmother was a lebensborn baby and spent her childhood on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall in an orphanage. You’re basically wondering if the brown shit or the green shit is going to taste better.>>65187007Yes. Imagine the amount of suffering that would have been prevented by bringing Moscow to heel. Yeah I’m sure there would have been a shit ton of Russian states breaking off and degenerating into Afghanistan tier third world fuck ups but they would have done it of their own choosing and wouldn’t serve any serious outward threat beyond modern terrorists.>>65187052They’ve produced some good music. I’m listening to Diana Ankudinova right now. Derniere Danse in contraalto is sublime.
>>65187118Anon, those doors and ACs are everywhere in Russia.Just use streetview and look at Irkutsk or Vladivostok or any place you want, and check the interior shots of restaurants and random photos people unploaded.
>>65187139Russian leaders have always used the dregs of society, political enemies, and potentially rebellious minority groups as meat wave cannon fodder. This was true in WW1 before the communist takeover. It’s effectively genocide but nobody cries when a “nation” does it to itself.
>>65187158I mean to some extend this is true for all societiesThe word Infantry does not contain the word "Infant" randomly. But Russias complete lack of certain civil institutions and just not having gone through phases of Enlightenment results in what we are seeing.What a fucking shithole
>>65187158>Dearest Leader Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, why are we invading Ukraine?>Genocide of ethnic Russians.four years later>Dearest Leader Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, we have yet to find conclusive evidence of Ukraine's genocide against us.>Ukraine's?
>>65186991kek this
>>65187145>My grandmother was a lebensborn baby and spent her childhood on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall in an orphanage. You’re basically wondering if the brown shit or the green shit is going to taste better.Tell me how many people were shot by west German border guards trying to flee over the Berlin wall into east Germany? While you are there if they were >>65187145>brown shit or the green shit is going to taste better.If there was no real difference....Why did the berlin wall have to be build to stop people escaping to the superior one........
>>65187312West Germany wasn't fascist, anon.
>>65187312Anon…you do understand that west Germany wasn’t Nazi Germany after the war ended correct? Nazi Germany sucked to live in. Soviet East Germany sucked to live in. Capitalist West Germany sucked infinitely less than either.
>>65187312>>65187343>>65187345Am I retarded or are you people retarded? His point was that nobody wanted to flee to the East. And you are confirming to him that West Germany was better, which he said. What?
>>65187154>Irkutsk >VladivostokAnon, both these cities have a population that's nearly just as big as all of Transbaikal Oblast. The bitch said she's in a small village where everyone knows everyone. It's not about the AC itself, it's the placement. In Russia old ass Russian buildings, the AC will be placed typically near a window, since the condenser has to be installed on the outside much later than the building was actually built.Not to mention, in Russia if a house is painted white, it's going to be some piss colored off-white. In 90% of homes in villages like this, they're going to have some ugly ass wallpaper. You can check sutochno.com if you think I'm a bot or something.
>>65187367I'm not saying you're a bot, just saying the doror and AC alone are not any indication of anything.I agree, it doesns't look like Bumfukski-na-Baikal, and you are 100% right about the colors and wallpaper.I aslo think her story can be true.
>>65187347You could not flee to nazi Germany because it ceased to exist before east and west Germany were a thing.Yes, practically nobody went to east Germany, while millions fled to the WestHis point was that both fascist and socialist dictatorships suck ass, even though the fascist variety seemed to cause fewer people to outright flee.
>>65187380>even though the fascist varietyAh, so my suspicions that somebody is pretending to be retarded to somehow make it seem they were equal in living standards was spot on, thanks. West Germany wasnt a dictatorship, and Russia still is one today.
>>65187343>>65187345>>65187380NTA but >>65187312 said nothing about Nazi Germany, he was clearly saying FRG Germany was miles better than GDR Germany you illiterate mongs
>>65187377Thank you for being /kind/ anon. Yeah, I think it's possible that she's filming from a hotel. So maybe she left Russia?
>>65187377>>65187393bitch might've fled to the Baltics, China, or one of the Stans before posting thata lot of Russians trying to escape Russia do that
>>65187387I just think you were talking past each other.Nobody in their right mind would call West Germany 'fascist', and if somebody does they are generally members of Moscow's useful idiot cohort.The comment about fascist dictatorships not causing mass refugee movements is generally true, though. Italians went back to Italy from the US after Mussolini took over.The illusion obviously ends once the corruption becomes obvious.
>>65187392The post he was replying to was talking about nazi and commie dictatorships, and that Anon's granny had been born in one, grown up in another, and both sucked ass.Which is very much true.
>>65187410>and if somebody does they are generally members of Moscow's useful idiot cohort.ding ding ding
>>65186742>Macron … is not much different from Melenchon.How so?
>>65187418She never talked about it to the grandkids but we grew up with horror stories about it from our parents. My great grandmother was a teenager that got knocked up by a married officer and put into the program. Her father went to prison for a decade after the war and refused to claim her for obvious legal reasons that likely would have helped them under reunification policies. Her mother had to work as a housekeeper and leave her in the orphanage that was constantly under supplied with food and basic necessities. Eventually her mom saved up enough money to pay someone to smuggle her across and her mom died before the wall came down.
>>65187061No, the primary punishment was to be sent to a penal battalion. Why would they shoot their own men? Literally wasting both bullets and manpower?Call of duty isn't historical my dude.Btw Paulus' last stand was about six months after Not one step back, during the same battle.
>>65186808So, that's why the RA raped women instead of men!
>>65186319>COWARDS WILL BE SHOT!It was actually "Cowards will be raped, shot, then raped again!" but you know how politically correct Hollywood is.
>>65187698unironically what happens in russian prison, and since russian prison culture influences the rest of society it happens in military culture.being soft or weak in there gets you into the toilet brusher position. it's brutal, a brutal society of the mob, rule of prison.
>>65187056Dying for Russia is a classic motif that the regime has been actively pushing for over a century (at least).
>>65187795Russian in its entirety is a prison
>>65187020There's a Nazi itt who keeps attacking fellow sympathizers, I think he must be drunk off his ass because he doesn't read more than the first 8 words of every post before the "NUH UH" or "NO THEY DID THAT".Like dude, we actually agree with each other, shut the fuck up lol
>>65186549Awesome movie
>>65186817Farewell, Gulsary has some flashbacks from a kyrgiz dudes perspective but i cant remember if he is critical of the ussr or just bitches about how fucked his country was post ww2.
>>65187482Uh sounds less like a problem with Nazi Germany and more like a problem of someone fucking your granny.
>>65187026>>65187034Russia is literally just a death cult nation, isn't it?
>>65186434yah know the modern Zs could have been inspired by the movie
Remember when everyone thought this book was fictional misery porn because no one believed any army could be that cartoonishly cruel and incompetent?fucking lmao
>>65187795Just picking up a broom or piece of trash can put you in the rooster-rape-bottom caste. No wonder their country is in the state it is.
>>65187939Good insight into the living nightmare of Russian existence. Other good ones are Zincboys/Cargo 200 by Aleksijevitj and Drawings from the Gulag. Picrel is from ZOV by a VDV who took part in the initial invasion. He got in trouble for making the military/Russia look bad by complaining about the state of the army, IIRC he had to flee the country.
>>65187986Still way better than Indians, as I just learned
>>65187795>prison culture influences the rest of societyYou act like the west tripping over themselves to imitate niggers isn't the same thing
>>65186319Lend-Lease support courtesy of Stalin's agents of influence as well as a dumbass American population.The book in pic is not perfect since it is way too sympathetic to FDR and way too harsh on Germany.
>>65188031>subversion of Roosevelt's Government FDR did that all by himself by being a communist. Even TR at the end of the day was a massive faggot for how much they both idolized unlimited federal power, the Roosevelts were just a cursed fucking family
>>65188038I understand. As I said, it was WAY TOO sympathetic to FDR.Plus, I know of how TR and Upton Sinclair hated each other. TR called him a liar who exaggerated industrialized meat packing troubles and Sinclair accused him of partnering and protecting such companies since the food companies supported the FDA and thought it would get used to protect them and divert responsibility from them while bullying around small competitors.
>>65186520crenshaw is a retarded liberal. western Marxism is dead and buried. it does not exist within an substantive materialist sense anymore, for better, or for worse. t. critical theory degree from an American University
>>65186401Nigger we have literal drone videoes from 2025 showing Chechen barrier troops shooting retreating Russians. Ofcourse this also happened in 41 and 42. Someone post the video.
>>65186334I can’t imagine the extent of the brainrot that caused you to post this, you poor sad virgin. Do you have that moment every day when you realise that nobody likes you? Nobody that counts anyway? Does it hurt? Angry incels like you are worse than faggots. At least faggots get their dick sucked.
>>65188195>I get laid more so I'm betterInteresting argument.
>>65188204I can almost smell you from here you disgusting repellent loser.
>>65188195>Do you have that moment every day when you realise that nobody likes you? Nobody that counts anyway? Does it hurt?Lmao a little too specific anon. Feel better.
>>65186780Two videos show how much something can get diluted.
>>65188150>western Marxism is dead and buried. it does not exist within an substantive materialist sense anymore, for better, or for worse.>t. critical theory degree from an American UniversityI was wondering whether it's Marxism that was wrong, or whether it was right (at least mostly, or albeit flawed in some ways as well), but the mode of production it was describing (and emerged from to critique) no longer exists. It's like how you see those wistful trad memes people post online about "how the world you grew up in no longer exists" but it's also true that the critique of that world is dead too.
>>65188354If you really have to him and haw over communism being right or not...
>>65188422>t. raised by a scornful single mother Missed that last detail anon
>>65188435Why would you out yourself on purpose?
>>65188422what about making love, anon?or even handholding?
>>65186480These niggers have never heard of cultural marxism
>>65188444Why are you providing more examples of breeding
>>>/his/wrong board
>>65187929To an extent, the privileged are not expected to die on a battlefield, because every cult needs its priests to tell the flock how, when and why they should be out there dying.Its also much easier to do from Moscow in a studio rather than some oooorah shit just behind the front lines
>>65188435It's actually the other way around. Most guys raised by single mothers are cucked into oblivion.
>>65188471Or they become serial killers, mostly they become sad alcoholics and drug addicts in russia
>>65188456Shut up faggot if political discussion about the war(s) belong here then so does discussing the politics of the old war(s).
>>65186813NTA but I do, and it's embarrassing.
>>65188195Join the 41% TODAY
>>65188521>IBM, ITT, AT&T, Dupont, Dow, Union Carbide, Exxonlmao, this ironically disproves its own point, most of these companies are irrelevant now.
>>65188027>see, is just same th-ACK!
>>65188945With the way corporations work now, it's the same lineage of sociopaths with new skinsuits. Brand names are disposable, companies exist to be chopped up and sold to bigger companies by executives who receive fat bonuses from both sides of the equation because they briefly shot share price to the moon before it crashed. They don't care what name is on the letterheads.
>>65189016Use your words anon
>>65189020Have you perhaps noticed that those "sociopaths" are all indeed of a certain ethnic lineage that has nothing to do with the one which established the business? I know that's a lot to ask of a leftist, you seem to always be fighting a nebulous "elite" rather than naming the specific members of that elite and their relationship with one another.
>>65188521Very burger-coded doomerism. In moments like these I vividly realize I belong to the <1% global elite that lives in a much better society than most.
>>65188521>EssentialismI'm not familiar with this. What do you mean by this? Would you mind defining this as you see it? (I did a quick search but it's just an autistic Wikipedia article or swimming through SEO AI slop)
>>65187003>would it be better if germans won>the entire war?Fuck no>the eastern frontAbsolutelyAs it stands, ww2 is the definition of half assery. There were four imperialists that started it. Germans, Japanese, italians and vatniks. Three of them got completely demolished down to the foundations. One of them not only survived, but was rewarded with the greatest imperial extent it has ever had. While being, aside from the japanese, the most savage and psychotic of the four. Now you got certain simple minded nations being completely surprise pikachu.jpg that a remnant of this decaying imperial construct, like monke, is trying to butcher his way back to the glory days of stalin going for a fifth year straight. My ideal version of the european ww2 is that the allies of US and UK recognise the opportunity that was barbarossa and just let nature take its course. Hands off, not a single bullet to stalin and the goal is to let hitler wipe him out. Or at the very least grind the "iron tzar" into a ruinous stalemate deep inside pidor union. Like the volga river valley region. Meanwhile US and UK build up additional muscle to finish off the overextended and bled out germans when they were done in the east. Ending ww2 around 1947/1948 with the restoration of pre ww2 borders. with the exception of the mangled pidor union. As given the choice, ukranians and belarusians would want their own independence free of the red terror
>>65189128Yeah, Trump is SO Jewish, anon.Get your head out of your ass.
>>65186789If the standing warrior is supposed to represent the Soviet union, why does she do a nazi salute?Also, if you want to portrait yourself as winner of an epic, righteous struggle, it's probably not the best idea to depict your enemy with a weapon in her BACK.
>>65189330where are you from that you don't recognize a (Sovietwave/Perun-LARP filtered) valkyrie??
>>65189308>you have no idea>it's not as if all these companies publish not just controlling shareholder information, but also key minority interestsFucking idiot
>>65186913They had more than 15 000 000 000 people?
Speaking of political military discourse. I remember distinctly online that China and the term human waves never occurred. One such example is a China simp who speaks about military history through the writings of Chineses communist papers which is decent atleast in presentation. However in this video he completely dismisses the notion of human waves and often the cope is often online seen as "Small unit tactics" as if no one else does that shit. But we do know concealment and relatively decent logistics allowed china to stay in the fight so that is accurate. The Human wave tactic existed entirely due to the nature of the land scape/lack of armor and the harsh reality that Mao wanted results and getting rid of useless veteran fat that won't make the cut for CCP officials is a fine trade to make. I think the estimate is 2 million chinese casualties in this war and likely even higher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxAKDIzERTcFunny that the chinese propaganda movie shows human wave tactics, starving soldiers, how americans actually enjoyed warm meals and endless belts of ammo. This is more inline with actual recounts from americans fighting chineses than the propaganda i see from tankies. Beyond that if you send untrained men to the front they are basically meat waves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRVGP7GDm1E
>>65186319kekStalingrad was a trap.The Soviets COULD have reinforced the city no problem; but they were slowly giving ground while letting the krauts believe that they were OH SO CLOSE to victory - while amassing the army on the flank which eventually ended all the nazi dreams for good just like that.That's what you end up with when you fuck around with actual human beings with properly developed brains. rofl "German master race" kek
>>65189372>who the fuck is ever going to describe their ideology as not based in what they believe to be the core defining facts of the world?when you're older you'll realise that the number of people with that level of self-honesty are 1 in 10 or even 1 in 100take conspiracy theorists for example. if they spent even an ounce of the time and effort they spend on their crackpot theories instead on improving their own immediate circumstances, they'd not only better themselves significantly they'd also probably end up discarding their worldview quite quickly, as conspiracy theories are often engineered to excuse away failures in life as "The Man Stacked The Deck Against Me In Such-and-such A Manner, It's Not My Fault I'm A Foreveralone Basement Dweller In A Dead-End Job"
>>65188407Just saying, one of Marx's better and more important arguments is that ideas are not the drivers of history but are themselves historically situated. The cruel irony for Karl Marx is that should also apply to Marxism.
>>65188027Same principle, way different stage and scope. Imagine if 1/3 of the entire population of US had to take part in ghetto life (gang shit included) for 5+ years. Don't wanna participate, you're shot or beaten to death. Now imagine the influence it'd have on a society.
>>65189383>in this video he completely dismisses the notion of human waves>"Yes, inexperienced commanders likely did just order their men to storm and try to overwhelm American positions">"Even more complex infiltration motions, if discovered, would turn into a bumrush human wave to attempt to take the position">"Diversion tactics would intentionally have large groups of soldiers making noise and taking heavy casualties, to distract from a second or third group advancing"Idk anon, doesn't sound like he's denying them to meThe "infiltration" tactics also sound very similar to what the Russians are trying in Ukraine, and we've seen how extremely casualty intense those are
>>65189496Yeah he admits all of that but he presumes that the term is nothing but a journalistic buzzword. The japs did banzai charges since it scared the peasants who didn't have machine guns in china to the point it allowed them to gain land at an accelerated rate. They learned the hardway that US troops had a machine gunner in high enough volume to counter those tactics and generally wouldn't run in face of such an attack.
>>65189382Historically exists a constant of ~50kg of ammo to kill a single combatant, so yes, 15B of bullets would be statistically not enough to kill endless asiatic hordes.
>>65189496>>65189517Aside from the motivated reasoning in not wanting it to be accurate for a cause you support or identify with, I think wires get a little crossed because meat waves are how you describe the result more than the plan.Ukraine's a good example. Most of us look at what Russia's doing right now to maintain pressure on the ground and say>Meat waveA Russian would respond >No, battlefield conditions preclude force concentration, so we're forced to send forward infiltrators in small groups to establish positions in the very porous front line or perform quick motorised probing actionsThe trick is that neither of you have actually contradicted each other. The Russian's talking about the rationale, you're talking about the observable result. Very few leaders, even Russian ones, are likely to want to brand themselves as meat wave enthusiasts no matter the reality.
>>65189539Yeah that sums up the topic entirely. Besides its not like there isn't tactics or even grand strategy involed in getting these troops to the front to face the enemy. It could very likely be a case of limited options once you meet the enemies lines with your own troops that cause this to happen again and again. In the case of Russia currently they are incentivised to gain land for commanders either through pay/political favors/prestige and future promotion. The reality is strategicly you are forced to push these tactics down since paltry 6 month enlistments are so short you simply do not have the time to train/organize/integrate forces for actual attacks that would push ground in large sweeping maneuvers. Some of the 4 year contract soldiers or however long that is in the Russian military do these attacks and gain ground almost every time they perform proper mass and maneuver operations. But to the commanders who do not have long term access to build up such forces and material it devolves into these infiltration tactics that to layman such as myself can only be described as meat waves.
>>65189546I'm not defending what leaders have been doing on the ground for the past few years, but if you're a low level officer who's got to make some kind of progress so his boss is happy, fuckall accurate lay of the land because of maps ruined by other people making their bosses happy and straight-up lying, a sky that only stops buzzing when it's raining tungsten instead and the force you've just been handed to do something with is 16 prisoners who got more beatings than training on the way here, 4 homeless who didn't know what they were signing and all of them are high, drunk, withdrawing, off their meds or some combination thereof most of the time? Pointing them roughly at the enemy and threatening sodomy and/or death if they don't is probably your only real play. I don't think even the best leadership could manage tactics much more in-depth, though there'd probably be less rape and beatings.Shitty people getting dealt shitty hands is kind of tradition for Russia, really.
>>65186319Happened all the time.
>>65189517>he presumes that the term is nothing but a journalistic buzzwordwell, what is his thesis to rationalise and prove that the term is nothing but a journalistic buzzword?he must show his research on military tactics and contrast both claimed and actual military doctrine and practices of acceptable benchmark nations around the world in order to even begin to have an argument that isn't a high form of "nuh uh">>65189539>meat waves are how you describe the result more than the plan.nowhat Western military doctrine labels "meat waves" is when the enemy attacks head-on into an enemy position with minimal flanking in terrain, tech, time, etc with the main hope being to physically overrun the enemy before they can wipe you outit is important to know and be able to articulate the difference between a tactically-sound attack and a tactically-unsound attack in order to illustrate the differenceoutcome is almost irrelevant since tons of factors beyond the commander's control could contribute to the result>>65189546if you have no choice but you do it anyway, it's a meat waveboth Japan and Russia did launch senseless meat waves in WW2. the Japs just ignore that they did, and the Russians lie that they didn't.
>>65186319>How common was thisWho knows. Nazi Germany sentenced over 30,000 of their people to death for desertion or "cowardice" during their last months. Both Stalin and Hitler had issued their "no step back" orders at some point.The only difference was that the Russians were successful. Slavic chads have won, German usurpers have lost, kek.
New shit just dropped.
>>65189677You seem to be ignoring the reason the russians won, because they were being supplied wholesale by the west while the nazis at that point had rapidly dwindling supplies
>>65189690Safe assumption the stumbling subhuman slapping the pinata subhuman is drunk there?
>>65189693I know that you like to keep it simple but the reasons were more complex than that Johnny.
>>65189690>stupid fucking Metapod why won't you attack urgh worst game ever
>>65189699Is this a schizoposter?
>>65189677>Nazi Germany during their last months.Whatever they did was probably more a 'die in place' kind of thing than a 'charge the enemy' one.
>>65189709What? meds
>>65189699Please, regale us with your story how glorious puccia defeated the Nazi hordes
>>65189756They defeated themselves trying to conquer Eurasia with non motorized infantry and horse-driven logistics rofl. You need an actual infantry to capture ground you see, and their infantry was worse than what the Mongols had kek.
>>65189766>Russia won because German infantry was not goodOk, that is an interesting take. Do go on.
>>65186434>it really killed that push.Not really. It simply showed that Russians, being the uneducated apes that they are, never got the memo.Just compare the success of USSR against fucking Wehrmacht at its peak vs Russia against the most disfunctional country in Europe.And everything in USSR was absolutely bombed to shit up to the Urals, meanwhile Russia enjoyed German and American "No, you cannot bomb them dindus" protection for several years of this absolute travesty of a war.Historians correctly pointed out that if USSR went full retard, they'd get lose the war no matter how many mobiks they threw in the grinder.Russians instead LARPed out the mythical fantasy of endless human waves defeating much more technically advanced foe... and have been getting their shit pushed in by the equivalent of fucking WW2 Greece or Spain for longer than than the entire length of Operation Barbarossa. With 0, I repeat 0 damage to any of their rail lines, cities, factories, etc. To say nothing of enjoying modern tech to bombard their enemy with near impunity day in, day out. Something that USSR couldn't even dream of back then.So tell me /k/, who's right? Putin and Hollywood or the historians who called bullshit?
>>65189711Basically, from the Autumn of 1943 onward, Hitler directed the eastern front similarly to how he ran it in winter 1941 when his orders to fight where the army stood saved the ostheer from falling apart.The strategy worked in late 1941 because the Russians weren't as strong then as in 1943 onward. And when you spend two years listening to and doing what Manstein wants, you realize you aren't going to "strategic withdrawal" yourself into victory, so you fall back on what you knew worked at least once.Except from Operation Bagration onward, stonewalling the soviets stopped working.
>>65186401dumbass commie
>>651897015 star post nigga
>>65186394tsun tzu said that?
>>65189690>"Why do people call us orcs?">Do shit like this
>>65190415Hey now, the orcs would have just strung him up with rope, or maybe a couple small chains. Not this shit where he's going to die wet because of how gross and stuffy it is under all that plastic.
>>65186919>1. Some of those historians are actual retarded autists in a sense that they can't comprehend a world where "primary sources" are actually bullshit and the whole state apparatus top to bottom lies, even where there's no benefit to do so. They'll argue in good faith until they're blue in the face that things didn't happen because the sources don't support it, even if a 5 minute talk with actual people whom lived though the experience would easily prove otherwise.i've been a real fan of history and i couldn't conceive stuff like the human wave attacks depicted in enemy at the gates being realistic. even if you're pragmatically evil, it still doesn't make sense to throw away your own troops like that. of course that all changed after 2022 and i got a better grasp of how russians think.nowadays i kinda just go by vibes and logic. like if you imagine what the vibe must have been in the soviet military during stalingrad, when stalin was probably a bit flustered and in the mood to purge anyone who failed him, and all the officers were new and incompetent, then human wave attacks seem very likely. who knows what kind of retardation they were up to during those wacky times. for all we know they didn't even bother with the "1 guy gets a rifle, the other doesn't", they may have well sent troops over to fight with nothing but shovels and grenades. we'll never know.though still to this day i can't imagine the soviet union was as incompetent as the russians are today. at least stalin seemed like a 4d chessmaster later in the war compared to putin, and that might be because there were fewer people constantly lying about everything throughout the whole command structure
>>65190363UNLESS ITS A FARM!
Seriously though. How do you think other countries would deal with soldiers turning away from battle? I'm pretty sure they'd do the same fucking thing.
>>65190552We literally know how most other countries deal with it. It's called a court martial and it's not a big secret.
>>65190552>How do you think other countries would deal with soldiers turning away from battle?soldiers of other countries generally don't run because they are given proper military training and mental conditioning. the idea is to make their default stress response into "turn off brain and execute the current order". though in large part that works because there is inherent trust in the command structure and that following orders IS the most likely way they will survive, and that they aren't just being thrown away in a meat wave attack >I'm pretty sure they'd do the same fucking thing.punishing desertion isn't new but only shithole countries use barrier troops and on the spot executions
>>65190464>it still doesn't make sense to throw away your own troops like thatBecause you're trying to think about it like a white European, which russians aren't (at the very least culturally). Patton was a 100% right about this.From the RU perspective it makes total sense to throw away troops ("exchange men") for a multitude of reasons, under the overall umbrella of "broads will birth more" (c) Zhukov.>though still to this day i can't imagine the soviet union was as incompetent as the russians are todayBruh... bruh... the whole start of the war in 1941 proves that they were even worse.>at least stalin seemed like a 4d chessmaster later in the war compared to putinThat "4D chessmaster" is the one who made a potentially easy military campaign for the Red Army cost USSR over 20 million soldiers.For fuck's sake, what you people don't understand is that USSR was preparing for war for decades at that point. USSR expected to stab in the back Nazy Germany and roll through Europe, annexing it into a greater soviet union. Instead it barely survived due to a fuck ton of support from allies. A this "barely survived" position was exactly stalin's fault.
>>65186401If you say so
>>65186319>how did The Red Army ever winEasy, their opponents were even more unhinged.>The [German] prisoners who refused to eat human flesh used other tricks to survive. In Krinovaia, a group of Italian entrepreneurs recovered excrement from the wide ditches of the latrines and with their bare hands pecked undigested wheat and millet, which they then washed and ate. The German prisoners soon perfected that process. Placing a series of tin cups, they extracted the feces with them and managed to recover so much grain that there was even a black market.
>>65190464> it still doesn't make sense to throw away your own troops like thatIt makes more (cultural) sense than you think. You've probably seen the same fallacies in the west. Infantry die easily=so its a waste to invest in them=so lets use these disposable units rationally and expend them. (Some Russian generals purged by Stalin had warned against this, because it's a famous military fallacy. only high investment high quality infantry can do certain things, and they're slow to build, so you have to be very careful about risking your supply). But the party had purged a lot of the military and so fallacies obvious to experienced professionals were dismissed by new men in an existential war under loyalty-testing pressure.Now add in the Russian TFR of the recent past at the time: up to 7 babies per woman!
>>65191553It's strikingly common even today for people to fail to realise there's practical reasons to be 'soft' too, just speaking of fallacies people fall into. There's many good reasons beyond being a pussy to want to keep casualties down or your troops well sheltered and fed. You shouldn't need coercive force to lead them to begin with. You shouldn't let their conduct make insurgents out of locals or desperate last stands out of potential surrenders.You get the point I'm making.
>>65186334Goddamn imagine if there had been all female regiments in world war 1 and there were loads of young innocent qt soldiers being sent to the trenches, imagine the misery on their faces as they wade through the the mud, the fear shining in their eyes as they prepare to rush into no man's land, the machine guns firing through their soft tender flesh, listening their helpless whimpers as their bodies splatter into the mud, some of them surviving for hours and trying to drag themselves back to their own trench, their helpless moans signalling the enemy sniper to line up a shot on their head and kill them. Imagine their gorgeous young bodies multilated by trench foot and other horrible wounds, dying from dysentery, thousands of fertile young women dying for nothing, spending their last weeks of life in utter misery.
I always wondered how communism as we know it would turn out if it started anywhere but Russia. Maybe just naive cope but I can't see the connection between "workers owning the means of production" and gulag rape culture without russian influence.
>>65191970The problem is that someone's gonna have to control the social justice (heh) and equality, and in the process get so much power that various assorted would-be tyrants and power-trippers get drawn to it like moths to light. It can work on a small scale, local cooperatives and such, where people know each other and destructive assholes can get filtered, but large, more anonymous groups are very vulnerable.
>>65191970It doesn't work in any culture anywhere in the world. Compare East Germany with West Germany, North Korea with South Korea, Maoist China with Japan. Doesn't work with Latinos in Cuba either. Or anywhere in Africa.A reminder that communism is a product of twisted German philosophy btw; nothing Russian about it. It was specifically planted in Russia by Ludendorff to weaken it during WW1 kek.
>>65191970>"workers owning the means of production"Common ownership is a contradiction in terms (you need Hegelian level of retardation to even come up with such nonsense).Ownership is a about exclusive rights, not inclusive ones. You assign property rights to _specific_ individuals; that's the whole point of it.
>>65192023>Compare East Germany with West Germany, North Korea with South Korea, Maoist China with Japan. Doesn't work with Latinos in Cuba either. Or anywhere in Africa.My aformentioned cope is that they were all influenced and spawned by soviet communism. East Germany being a prime example as they would never have existed were it not for them ending up on the soviet side of the allied occupation. The question is how would communism spread and change on a cultural level if it came from somewhere else like France or even America with russians going Tsarist in this alternative timeline.
>>65191875>he doesn't know about the Battalion of Death
>>65191970my problem with communism is it requires by definition a capitalist to set up means of production so a communist can steal it later
>>65186319>How common was this tactic during The soviet eraFixed
>>65192458but of course. Marx believed that there is no real surplus labour, everything is merely redistributed:>From the point of view of society as a whole, distribution seems to antedate and to determine production ... A conquering people divides the land among the conquerors establishing thereby a certain division and form of landed property and determining the character of production; or, it turns the conquered people into slaves and thus makes slave labor the basis of production. Or, a nation, by revolution, breaks up large estates into small parcels of land and by this new distribution imparts to production a new character. Or, legislation perpetuates land ownership in large families or distributes labor as an hereditary privilege and thus fixes it in castes. In all of these cases, and they are all historic, it is not distribution that seems to be organized and determined by production, but on the contrary, production by distribution.Furthermore, Marx didn't believe that machinery actually produced goods more efficiently. He believed that:>In so far as machinery dispenses with muscular power, it becomes a means of employing labourers of slight muscular strength, and those whose bodily development is incomplete, but whose limbs are all the more supple. The labour of women and children was, therefore, the first thing sought for by capitalists who used machinery. ... To purchase the labour-power of a family of four workers may, perhaps, cost more than it formerly did to purchase the labour-power of the head of the family, but, in return, four days’ labour takes the place of one, and their price falls in proportion ... Thus we see, that machinery, while augmenting the human material that forms the principal object of capital’s exploiting power, at the same time raises the degree of exploitation.If you open up your computer you'll realise it doesn't actually calculate faster, there are thousands of women and children inside performing calculations.
>>65192471funny how the total doesn't match and they didn't explain who was counted twice.
