without gunpowder, just their bayonets could they have fought off a late medieval pike formation?
>>65187787No.
>>65187787Shorter reach and no armor
>>65187787Fuck no.
>>65187787if the pikemen used the wrong end of the pointy stick, maybe
>>65187787No. The Zulus demonstrated to the Brits what happens when a line infantry regiment can't keep its gunners supplied with bullets and shooty-powder.
>>65187787>Bayonets are ***justasgood*** as real melee weapons mythology reaches it's natural conclusion
>>65187787>soldier---british-grenadier-from-the-ame[rican revolutionary war]correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not a light infantryman?>shorter coat>light infantry cap>no match fuse on his chest strap
>>65189547Was that ever really claimed? Bayonets only worked because they were attached to muskets.
>>65189565I would also say that the OP depiction is of a light infantryman. Interestingly to the feet of the soldier lies a german style grenadier cap, which had a full metal face whereas british grenadier caps only had a relatively small metal plate there.
>>65187943Despite losing a few engagement, British infantry were more than capable of holding their position with bayonet and swords when needed. At Roarkes Drift the angry Norf FC infantry of the brits repelled many waves of Zulus in hand to hand. They had no possibility of retreat however so they probably fought extra hard
>>65189547The good thing about bayonets were they could turn your rifle into an impromptu spear when you couldn't shoot anymore, it was a bonus to their main purpose as a shooting weapon (which is what made dedicated melee weapons as the primary armament obsolete as guns became more and more advanced)
>>65189665They were also fighting from behind fortifications, and the Zulu iklwa is a short "spear" not much longer than a sword, not a 16-foot pike.
>>65189567>Was that ever really claimed?Online? Yes, like thousands of times here and everywhere else by faggots who have never swung a heavy tool much less been in a fight with them.
>>65187787Maybe if they were aggressive and charged the pikes from a flank. But head on? Nah. Not without other factors influencing morale to cause an early route. We like to simplify it to say that bayonets turn muskets into spears but that's not really true. Real spears are long, fast, and very nimble. Bayoneted firelocks are short, heavy, slow, and very prone to over penetration (getting stuck in the other guy) because of that weight. They don't handle like a classical spear. There's a reason that when the French devised a specific martial art to use with the bayonet its foundation was built on sword fencing rather than pike/spear drill.
>>65187943And being outnumbered 13 to 1.
>>65187787Absolutely no.
>>65191924>Real spears are long, fast, and very nimblePikes were not, they sacrificed everything for reach. But that is the point in formation reach was absolute killer and weakness of excessive reach was covered by numbers of pikes.https://youtube.com/watch?v=tgGcHx2DvpwP.S. logical conclusion of the reach arms race is a musket bullet.
