>The LMT MRGG-A has been designated as the MK24 by SOCOM and is slated to enter service soon.at least it isn't SIG
>>65188842>at least it isn't SIGThank God
https://news.err.ee/1609794183/all-of-estonia-s-us-made-assault-rifles-undergo-warranty-repairs
>>65189184kek, there is a reason why everyone stays with HK
>>65188842Wasn't the MARS a giant pile of unreliable shit?
>>65189184American made is only a step above Chinese made, with how many corners we cut and beans counted. It's embarrassing.
>>65188842Okay. I cant say I really understand the whole program, like I get the MRGG-S and it seems like its a worthy upgrade considering people using it have been cleaning up in competitions (which geissele is quick to brag about on social media), but I fail to see why a shorter configuration would warrant a whole new rifle. I'm all for having the right tool for the job, but its the same round as the -S and they're both AR10s in basically the same role, but both proprietary enough to not be compatible with each others parts.
>>65189259Yes, despite how heavily shilled it is, HK416s are better in everyway
>>65189184Should have bought 416s
>>65189376>>65189455416s are decent rifles, but they kinda have early adopters disadvantage, where they didn't want to take any risks with chamber pressure so they massively overbuilt the receiver. That was fine, and is fine, but the last 20 years since then have shown that you can have a perfectly reliable and robust piston AR with just a regular AR receiver, meaning 416s have more mass for no gain. I guess they feel tethered to their receiver spec now, which is a shame because that's how you end up with marines carrying around 13 lb M27s, when it just doesn't need to be that way. And in that sense, as much as I fully understand the urge to shit on anything Arab-owned, the Heanel was probably the better rifle.
>>65189376sure if you never have to carry it around anywhere, mr neverserve
Rahe is fine. Yes it had teething issues but it has been worked out.
>>65189184It was a problem with the gas plug falling out on 10% of the 1000 they purchased of the AR-10 variant. They replaced the barrel and gas block and plug of all the 1000 as precaution for free similar to how a small batch of firing pins for NZ were underperforming and they just replaced everyone for free under warranty. Its literally a nothing story.
>>65188842The MRGG-A is sexy and i also like the Swiss LMT rifles in FDE as well
>>65189313The LMT has the autistically fast barrel change which socom wants because they burn barrels in automatic assualt guns and want sub MOA all the time. As soon as a operational barrel passes that threshold they will relegate it to a training barrel. It can be done by even the operator not even a armorer. I agree its dumb to have 2 separate AR10s but LMT should have won both but forced either geislee or Proof research to make the longer and more accurate sniper barrels. If there is a valid criticism of LMT its that they dont make match grade barrels only 1-2 MOA combat style barrels.
>>65189184And the SAKO ar was banned from use due to hangfires.
>>65189944>It was a problem with the gas plug falling out on 10% of the 1000 they purchased of the AR-10 variantIts obviously engineered to just be enough to not instantly fall out and then too loose manufacturing tolerances caused 10% to be so weak that they instantly fell out. This doesnt bode well for the lifespan of these guns. Thats great, because then the estonians will come back and buy a new set of guns.
>>65190009hangfires are a safety issue a gas plug coming out in 100 rifles isnt.>>65190069They required a piston 7.62x51 that LMT prior to the contract had never made so they had a small materials science issue with the gas block. All LMT AR10s prior were all direct gas impingement.
>>65190069notice how Estonia never had any issues with the 5.56 which has been piston for decades. The UK DMRs never had any issues, Swiss no issues, Its not a clever sales strategy its a new product that had greater force and had to be upgraded to a stronger material than the 5.56 piston gas blocks.
>>65189204>>65189376>>65189455>have to remove the handguard to service the gas system
>>65190265Now that i think about it, its a retarded design. A gun should allow the piston to both be under the handguard and be disassembled from the front without taking the whole thing off
>>65189184Note how many anons didn't actually read the article.
How does LMT get contracts? Every time I hear about them its just people complaining about their QC. Unless they just dont give a fuck about the civilian market which is entirely possible.
>>65190789>Unless they just dont give a fuck about the civilian market which is entirely possible.That's a good part of it, they're nocknamed "Learning Machining Together" for a reason>t. Bought a MARS-L lower, had to send it back because the safety detent pocket wasn't fully drilled out
>>65190789LMT is midsized and prioritizes contracts. They basically sell overruns (read good) and questionable but functional blem type parts to probably reduce scap rates (costs). Most civilians who buy their guns are collectors and dont care. If you get a good one they are good, they insure contracts get good ones even if it hurts their bottom line see NZ and Estonia unnecessary warranty of all batch parts. This is the zone they operate in and get meme'd on sometimes with the earned moniker Learning Machining Together.
>>65189515>how you end up with marines carrying around 13 lb M27s,builds character good to go
Every modification LMT has made to the AR platform is so good it should be a standard.
>>65190265So? That's removing one screw. What do you think you're even servicing there anyway?
>>65191036idk man.>monolithicUtterly useless and just makes the gun heavier. No, I don't want a short little mlok rail that weighs as much as a full length RIS II thank you very much.>quick change barrelNot that quick to change and even less useful; it's not any more convenient, it just emboldens people too stupid to use a torque wrench to believe they can do things without fucking up (they can't)>safety that can be activated when gun is not cockeduseless and detrimental; exists solely for retarded Europeans>improved bolta genuine improvement that's pretty cool, I'll take that and skip the rest thanks
>>65191053>having to rezero lazer everytime you clean your rifle
>>65191053most nogunz post I've seen in a while
>>65191160?>>65191151Oh no, you mean I have to line up the laser with my red dot again? Fuck, that's gonna be sooooo hard.
>>65191053The gas piston channel you dummy, you have to clean it.>So?So you have to rezero anything on your rail.>>65191059>Utterly useless and just makes the gun heavier.The mono rail is the single best part of the rifle. It helps with IR laser retention, almost eliminates POI/POA offset from putting pressure on the rail from resting the handguard on a barricade, provides way more clamping area for the barrel extension to provide better rigidity, and also acts as a much more efficient heat sink for the barrel.In the long run it eliminates a point of failure where the upper receiver extends to accommodate the barrel extension and barrel nut. For DI ARs this is of little relevance (takes over 200k rounds for this to break in standard 2-piece designs) but in piston ARs you can encounter failures much sooner, picrelAlso part of the weight simply comes from the heavy profile barrel that LMT uses. Whether you like it or not it's almost undeniably a more efficient profile than the government barrel.>>65190789LMT combines S+ tier design with C- tier quality control. It's unfortunate because it basically means you have to gamble in order to get access to some feature sets that are simply unavailable elsewhere.>>65189944Most of the HK fanboys are Eurofag nogunz, notice how they all started replying once the USA fell asleep
>>65191186If you're not rezero'ing or at least checking your laser all the goddamn time, news flash retardo it's not zeroed.>The mono rail is the single best part of the rifle.Absolutely disagree, terrible feature. Genuinely hate it.>It helps with IR laser retentionUtterly pointless when it weighs as much as a RIS II that does the same job, is longer, and is a quad rail, or a KAC rail that is as firmly fixed in place as the barrel nut yet is much lighter. Both are going to have near flawless zero retention and provide more rail space.>almost eliminates POI/POA offset from putting pressure on the rail from resting the handguard on a barricade, Freefloat does that already no thanks>provides way more clamping area for the barrel extension to provide better rigidityCouldn't force me to care as this has no practical benefit>and also acts as a much more efficient heat sink for the barrel.Can you prove this providing even a slight benefit? Not theorize, actually show it in action doing anything? I don't believe you can, because it doesn't matter.What it does do is make the rifle weigh vastly more than it needs to for the most marginal of benefit. >For DI ARs this is of little relevanceThe standard AR remains undefeated as always
>>65191170>pristine upper>doesn't know he has to remove the rail to clean the gun>uh...I'll just zero my laser to my dot in my bedroom!don't know if I should have expected anything else
>>65191196>pristine upperThanks I just put it together in that picture, glad you noticed I didn't drag it through a mile of sandpaper first so it would look cool on instagram>uh...I'll just zero my laser to my dot in my bedroom!No, I think I'll do it right at my range out the window in my backyard. Your strategy of leaving your unzero'd chinkshit laser alone because you didn't take the rail off will certainly work out much better. I'm sure it has had zero poi shift as temperatures changed and the rifle has been moved around. Definitely.>doesn't know he has to remove the rail to clean the gunCleaning guns is genuinely a meme.
>>65190789>Every time I hear about them its just people complaining about their QCLook at how much LMT pays its "gunsmiths" that will tell you the issue right there
>>65191195>If you're not rezero'ing or at least checking your laser all the goddamn time, news flash retardo it's not zeroed.If you have a quality laser then any drift from normal use is likely to be vastly less than what you can induce via rail shift. But that's really besides the point - rail shift can be induced in the field and isn't necessarily corrected by simply rezeroing.>when it weighs as much as a RIS IIIf you use the same stock and barrel profile, no, the 14.5" LMT CQB MLC would be about half a pound lighter and the LMT with the full length quad rail would weigh about that same.>almost eliminates POI/POA offset from putting pressure on the rail from resting the handguard on a barricadeDepending on how much pressure you put on it, no.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSWLKZCrF8sThe LMT may be getting a bit of a boost by virtue of being a large frame but other testing suggests the MLC doesn't perform significantly worse.>Couldn't force me to care as this has no practical benefitThe barrel heats up fastest and the metal becomes the most ductile towards the chamber region so reinforcing this area reduces the amount of barrel droop and whip as the gun heats up. It also provides much more surface area for heat to transfer from the barrel to the upper and reduces the likelihood of zero loss and damage if the end of the muzzle takes a hard hit.Anecdotally I suspect it also reduces the ringing volume from 3 prong flash hiders as I can't hear any from my MRP whereas I can hear it on every shot from a non-mono rifle. I don't give a shit but some people are really triggered about this.>Can you prove this providing even a slight benefit?Are you trying to ask whether a hot barrel is worse than a cold barrel?
>>65191200Again, IR laser shift from normal shot vibration, impact, and temperature is generally minimal with a decent quality unit.You also don't seem to understand that the mechanism that causes temperature-based zero shift in the first place also means that the unit is likely to return to the same zero (or very close to it) upon returning to the same temperature. That's why you don't have to rezero your optic after you take your rifle out in the cold.>Cleaning guns is genuinely a meme.This might have been borderline true for moderate levels of usage with a DI AR since you can keep applying more lube to the action area and keep the rifle on life support. For a piston AR the most significant accumulation of fouling is not immediately accessible.>oh but I have a backyard range!cool, if only the entire population had access to the same thing, that's why taking the rail off doesn't matter
>>65191395>If you have a quality laser then any drift from normal use is likely to be vastly less than what you can induce via rail shift.If you have any laser left on your gun for any length of time, say the time inbetween cleaning, it may shift zero and need to be reconfirmed before using for anything that matters.>but I'm not rolling around in some godforsaken shithole beating the fuck out of my rifle, and the temperature hasn't shifted by 30 degrees in the last hour, also I don't need to confirm zero because what I'm shooting won't shoot backthen your zero doesn't matter either gg no re>If you use the same stock and barrel profile, no, the 14.5" LMT CQB MLC would be about half a pound lighterMore like a third of a pound, if you're talking about the MLC rail. (CQB is the babby quadrail)>LMT with the full length quad rail would weigh about that same.No, however it would with the full length Mlok rail (MLR). They're just about one ounce apart. I was mistaken, I'll admit it: the LMT is not so ridiculously heavy that the tiny babby mlok rail is as heavy as one of the heaviest quadrails out there, only the full length mlok is.>The LMT may be getting a bit of a boost by virtue of being a large frameI imagine it does, by having a much thicker rail. It's also still seeing shift, frankly I don't think the extra weight is worth it. The answer is clearly to understand how what you are doing affects the gun, rather than pretend a design change will fix it.>Are you trying to ask whether a hot barrel is worse than a cold barrel?Are you trying to argue without providing an actual example as I asked? You can say it does a thing all you want, showing it in action is what matters. Yeah yeah you made your boat anchor into a heat sink that's great, but what does it actually do in the real world? Any measurable info?
>>65191420>For a piston AR the most significant accumulation of fouling is not immediately accessible.It's pretty accessible, takes about five seconds to take out one screw>cool, if only the entire population had access to the same thingIf you can't afford a back yard range, don't buy an LMT and definitely don't buy a HK. Get your shit together.
>>65191490>but I'm not rolling around in some godforsaken shithole beating the fuck out of my rifle, and the temperature hasn't shifted by 30 degrees in the last hourSomeone did a test on this too, shift was modest at most (and more likely negligible, you can see the guy starting to pull the laser off target in slow motion) after 4 drops.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKfq1qj7FVsThere is also very little difference in the emitters' positioning in relation to each other after a 170 deg F change in temperature, and while this doesn't tell us exactly how much they moved in relation to the mount, it doesn't suggest there's much, more importantly the emitters returned to their original relationship once the environment returned to the same temperature. This is largely besides the point, again. A monolithic rail eliminates shift from rail misalignment and substantially reduces shift from rail flex (which can't be corrected for, as it is only momentary), and all else equal, having to deal with fewer sources of shift is a good thing.>More like a third of a pound, if you're talking about the MLC rail. (CQB is the babby quadrail)I am using MLC CQB as shorthand to describe a shorter length MLOK rail since I can't be assed to keep up with LMT's changes in naming conventions, they themselves call the complete rifle the "CQBMLK16-MARS" on their website.According to LMT the CQB quad rail weighs 6.91 lb, then subtract 0.26 lb for an MLOK rail, subtract another 0.25 lb for the DD stock versus the SOPMOD, then subtract 0.3 lb for the government vs heavy profile barrel, and we're at ~6.1 lb versus 6.74 lb for the DD.https://lmtdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/MRP-Spec-Sheet-1.pdfIf we use the rifle length quad rail then we add 0.32 lb to 6.91, then subtract 0.5 lb for the stock and barrel profile, and we're at ~6.7 lb - about the same as the DD.Cont.
>I imagine it does, by having a much thicker rail.Here is the small frame MLR rifle length, it is roughly tied with the Aero semimono and has about 1/3 as much POI deviation as an MLOK DDM4V7.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp07F98pNSo&t=404s>The answer is clearly to understand how what you are doing affects the gunYou can't predict the exact extent of the POI shift in any given field position with great accuracy, and it is unreasonable to simply avoid resting your rail on anything. The reduced POI shift is simply an upgrade that penalizes you less for one more thing.>Any measurable info?Do we have measurable info that the LMT Enhanced Bolt is less likely to break from overpressure cartridges, or that a Geissele SSA-E X helps people shoot better than a mil spec trigger? No but we can fairly infer. Likewise we can use basic deduction, extrapolation, and probability analysis to form an educated guess, you don't need a study for every attribute that possibly exists. that yes, the LMT mono upper probably promotes barrel cooling all else equal, operating off these knowns:1. The area for heat transfer from the barrel to the rail is much greater.2. Numerous arfcom users have reported that the MLC rail heats up more quickly than a two piece design.3. According to an arfcommer's FOI request (no Mr. Carl Gaylard is not me), the LMT consistently scored above its competitors in all metrics, and it is highly probable that at least one of those metrics included heat resistance either directly or by proxy. Picrel.>It's pretty accessibleAnd then you're gonna have to clean it, dumping lube in there is like putting lube inside a DI gas tube, it's not going to last long. >If you can't afford a back yard range, don't buy an LMT and definitely don't buy a HK. Get your shit togetherImagine if you had a house in the suburbs that costs a million dollars and you're told you can't buy an LMT or HK because you don't have a backyard range. You know this is silly.
>>65191914Oh and here's more.The LMT quadrail 14.5" carbine barrel, about 0.75" thick throughout most of it, goes 1000 rounds at a rate of approximately 320 FPM before it has a cookoff after the round spends just under 3 seconds in the chamber.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3sLD_HUCXE&t=462sThe RRH IAR v1, with a 0.875" barrel and *deliberately designed barrel heat sinks*, goes 1045 rounds at a rate of approximately 250 RPM before it has a cookoff after the round spends about 2 seconds in the chamber.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5X7Vk9CdxESo the LMT fires nearly as many rounds in significantly less time and requires the cartridge to sit longer in the chamber before cookoff, compared to a gun with a thicker barrel profile that is purpose built with features designed to draw heat away along most of the length of the barrel. Now if we wanted to take a reasonable guess I'd say that's because the monolithic upper design works more efficiently for keeping the chamber cool, even compared to this gun that has been intentionally built to keep the barrel cool, and even if we acknowledge that the RRH IAR did fire a round more recently before the cookoff.>but nobody would ever carry enough rounds for a cookoffNot the point here, it's about the barrel temperature. It is an unquestioned fact that increased barrel heat results in, all else equal, greater dispersion and wear. And using our basic extrapolation skills, we can surmise that the LMT monolithic upper is probably reducing that heat related dispersion and wear compared to an upper that isn't mono, doesn't have a heavier profile barrel, and isn't deliberately designed with heat sinks lining the barrel.
>>65189515M27's have an HBAR barrel - really a heavier profile than the improved M4A1 profile
