The Russo-Ukrainian War, and the massive losses being taken by IDF armor in Southern Lebanon, have demonstrated that combined arms warfare as we know it is completely obsolete. In Ukraine, artillery and drones and defensive lines in WW1 style attrition positional warfare has largely replaced tanks. The Israelis are likely to adopt similar tactics (as they did during the 1982-2000 occupation) using heavily fortified positions such as Beaufort castle once they dig in for the long haul. Tanks will need to adapt to firing from fixed positions while using APS and cope cages to fend off FPV attacks. AA vehicles will need to be be 1/4 of any armored force. Large armored formations will need to practice dispersal again as they did during the Cold War under threat of tactical nuclear weapons. No one will be able to mass enough armor for a breakthrough or the swift mechanized maneuver actions that dominated mid to late 20th Century warfare. 73 Easting will be as relevant to the planners of today as Mars-la-Tour will be to Cambrai and Ypres
>>65194362>Massive lossesIsrael lost 84 soldiers in Lebanon in total since 2023.Fiber optic drones are indeed a problem, but a solvable one because of how vulnerable they are. If people figured out how to destroy RPG's in midair, dinky toys like drones will have their solution too, especially on vehicles.
>>65194384Russia and Ukraine have dumped exorbitant amounts of resources into developing a counter to fiber optic drones and the best they can come up with are nets. Israel isn't gonna develop jack and will continue to be used as target practice by Hezbollah.>>65194362Best counter for tanks may be a RWS that can target drones and a carousel style autoloader. War will likely never not need a big armored gun so the tank will never truly die.
>>65194384>believing jew numbersOh no, No, NO
>>65194421>carousel style autoloaderPidorovitch...>>65194427Cope.
>>65194384Loss is not only measured in lives but also in the components of your war machines. Israel has begun to lose both at an accelerated rate and more losses will occur as Hezbollah ramps up its drone warfare. Unless you are okay with catastrophic losses like those suffered by the Slavs wasting that much material is a luxury westernized militaries cannot afford against a group of techno jihadist.
>>65194429>Mocks slavs>ignores that most of the ruling class of israel is slavic
>>65194421>Best counter for tanks may be (...) a carousel style autoloaderA counter in the sense that the turret will be thrown into low orbit and may take out a drone if it's flying overhead?
>>65194445>wasting that much material is a luxury westernized militaries cannot afford against a group of techno jihadist.The US' defeat by Iran shows that no Western military, even the best resourced in the world, has come up with a solution to asymmetric techno jihadism. This almost guarantees that if an Islamist uprising takes place in Europe for example, the government security forces will have no answer
>>65194507There is an answer, and you know what that answer is.
>>65194449I mock rusniggers you filthy subhuman.
>>65194522It's not an answer most Western governments and publics would contemplate. They'd rather submit to foreign rule than do anything that could compromise their tender morals
>>65194554>It's not an answer most Western governments and publics would contemplate. Currently.
>>65194362>AA vehicles will need to be be 1/4 of any armored force.100%. Tank should be vehicle armed with AAA (35-50mm) cannon.Making analogy with WWII when carries spam became meta only surface combatants produced in the end of the WWII and after were AAA cruisers.
>>65194429He's correct, Israel is operating under wartime censorship and basically throttles the release of info about soldiers killed. That's not even a secret.
>>65194572>he's right No, you're wrong, turd, they post obituaries all the time.
>>65194572>Tell me you know nothing about Israel without telling me you know nothing about Israel It's a small country with unrestricted internet, that's fighting most of it's war within it's own civilian cell network coverage. It's literally impossible to hide casualties. The only reason casualties aren't disclosed right away is because they army has a policy of notifying the family before they find out through mass media, and even that doesn't always work.
These near identical threads are really tiresome
>>65194526Israelis are 30% rusniggers
These "tank is dead" posters clearly don't follow military affairs at all.Russia is dragging every useable hull out of storage and getting it going.Ukraine is taking literally any tracked vehicle it can get from european countries.Every european country is buying new Leopards and IFVs.China is developing a ton of different medium weight armored vehiclesThe US is modernizing the Abrams to Sep3
>>65194612>Every european country is buying new Leopards and IFVs. Estonia just cancelled its half a billion worrh procurement program for IFVs and tanks. The money was redirected to drone acquisition and development >inb4 they small, don't countSmall and nimble ones are the fastest to react and adapt. It's the ancient mammoths with its clogged up procurement bureaucracy and hubris that always resists the hardest until smacked in the face
>>65194384>Israel lost 84 soldiers in Lebanon in total since 2023.OK, but how many vehicles have been damaged, disabled or destroyed?
>>65194618They didn't cancel IFV procurement, they canceled *new* IFV procurement. They are going to upgrade their existing CV90s, instead of replacing them with CV90 Mk. 4s, as initially intended.
>>65194421>Israel isn't gonna develop jackDunno, they might develop a new tactic to use the second great Kraut chimpout 80 years ago to demand US and Krauts donate them more stuff.
>>65194618Estonia is incredibly poor, anon. Just wait until you hear what they did to their aircraft carrier project!
>>65194427Okay, lets say for the sake of argument, it is x10 that. So 840 in 3 years. Lets be even kinder, x100, so 8,400 in 3 years. Hell even KINDER and say it is x1000, so 84,000. Russia, for example, is at ~250,000 dead and 1,000,000~ total. My point being, even if you randomly increase the numbers, what actually changes? Okay so they lost loads of soldiers, so? What does this mean? Is Israel going to collapse? No? Okay then.
>>65194707I'm not from the US. Get bombed and die, turdie.
>>65194660None knows, they don't disclose this information. Most damaged stuff is repaired though.
>>65194384>Israel lost 84 soldiers in Lebanon in total since 2023.
>>65194730>That gifGotta be from a jeet movie right?
>>65194764>implying white guilt can't produce stuff like this
hi guise!what's going on in this thread?
>>65194597it is illegal in Israel to film or photograph craters from bombs and missiles, falling missiles or drones etc etcyou're full of shit
>>65194507Anbsolute retard take. "Asymmetric techno jihadism" isn't what's winning Iran this conflict. Geography and american unpreparedness are.
>>65194910Yes cumrag every one is just like us with 4600 dead in four years of smo))))
>>65194507Why would they need to do an uprising when they already have the government on their side?
Could we just armor the top of the tank
>>65194362FPVs could be taken out so easily by proximity-fuse grenade turrets, but nobody expected tanks to need them until the past 5-10 years. The PGS already has a round in the works for infantrymen that can deal with them as well. Armored vehicles aren't obsolete, they just desperately need upgrades to their active defense.
>>65194421>Russia and Ukraine have dumped exorbitant amounts of resources into developing a counter to fiber optic dronesI thought the low cost solution (at least for open fields) is spinning razorwire to break the fibre.https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Dmjvq7wBBHA
>>65195124According to IDF twitter it only stops 10% of fiber optics.
>>65194769>>65194764It's from RRR. Yes, a jeet movie.
M113 with improvised addon armor survives 9 FPV drones while evacuating wounded soldiers.
>>65194427>>65194572>um ackshually the casualty ratio is several times higher>no I don't have footage showing these casualties>no I don't have any form of proof whatsoever>no I don't care about the fact that israeli soldiers post cell phone clips from south lebanon all the fucking time, in many cases generating bad PR, which disproves my theory of a cover-up>i simply BELIEVE in the VIRILE ISLAMIC LIONS who would be very embarrassed if they actually had a 1:100 casualty ratio during a war on their own soil
>>65194362>and the massive losses being taken by IDF armor >>65194427can you name a single casualty the IDF try to hideor have any evidence for one besides cope?
>>65194910interesting was anyone ever prosecuted for that?and are fatalities craters?
>>65195553>Actually sincerely complaining about "reddit spacing" in the year of our lord 2026>No arguement
>>65195561tried
>>65195570You’re subhuman and should kill your self
>>65195584lol of course it's the shitalian you managed to undo the only real victory hezbollah had since its inception the 2000 withdrawal from southern lebanon literally the reason hezbollah was created all the while hezbollah lost 100 men for every solider the israelis lost and that's somehow a victory turdies can cope about everything
>>65195623ok buddy
>>65195647lol shitalian
>>65195553>>65195637the concept of/stigma against "reddit spacing" was literally just election tourists making shit up in an effort to pretend they weren't and aren't eternal newfags
>>65195647this one is too easy nafrihttps://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/image/Www207pem4H0DFSWHcnPqQ/>>65195651yep
man hezbollah propaganda is so much worse after nasrallah got gibbed playing on >muh casualties just doesn't work when you can barely inflict any
We have the solution:https://x.com/i/status/2060665381836968297
>>65194421Lasers shined into the fiber fucks with the electronics. That is a proven tactic that works.
>>65195723you just need to find and hit precisely a line that is millimeters thick
>>65195735Just do what ukraine has been doing and use a drone to sweep it with a laser.
>>65194362>combined arms warfare as we know it is completely obsoleteIf you have been paying attention, you'd know that is untrue. As with everything else, drones themselves simply needed to be added into the combined arms. Ukraine has used drones to isolate areas of the front and intercepting russians drones/drone teams. This gives them a relatively clear sector, allowing them to perform mechanised assaults onto the isolated pockets of russian infantry.The drones main vulnerability at this time is their logistics footprint and the need for a sheltered position for the teams to operate from, so a true breakout would be able to avoid the worst of drone warfare.
>>65195383Based M113 brining our boys home.TZD
>>65195683>AIAre you mossad trying to make thirdies look even more retarded?
>>65195534>The carousel style loader is the most resistant to FPV drone attacks because it's at the bottom of the tank.>he thinks you cant hit bottom of the tank with top attack
>>65195723Don't fall for propaganda its most likely they used laser ablation to damage the wire for hidden drones. There's cladding and core in a fiber you can't just dump large amount of light through a incidence angle.
>>65195735the laser doesn't have to be a milliliter thin
>>65194421both russia and ukraine also tried to make APS systems and none of those attempts are much of a success something the israelis did succeeded at i wont be surprised if they'll figure something out you failed at >carousel autoloader yeah it comes with a crew escape capsule >>65195723i don't think you can inject light into a fiber cable without physically bending it over its critical radius i'm pretty sure it physically severs the fiber or at least damages the fiber
>>65196060>completely ignores the example given >states a completely unsupported claim insteaddo i also need to remind you how you got ERA in the first place ivan
>>65196072>Desert slavs aren't nearly as inventive or competent as snow slavs. Unless America comes up with it first, they can't do anything against FPV drones.
>>65196072>Are bustle loaders somehow better at not getting raped by FPVs?A correctly aimed impacting FPV will penetrate both kinds of loaders, but only a bustle loader won't autokill the crew and the tank when its penned.
>>65195584Cry more, pidor.
Turboretard is dying on the autoloader hill, nice to see. Natural selection, I suppose.
>>65194665With the US chimping out and abandoning Europe as an ally, and Germany finally growing back one of their balls, hopefully the opposite will happen.I mean, even the fucking frogs are flexing and expanding their nuclear umbrella, and even more shocking, European countries that would never have considered it five years ago, are now accepting.
>>65196117there has been almost 50 years since russia first tried to deploy an APS to the point small drones became a threatwhat a lousy excuse vityayou tried so many times and failed the jews succeeded >attempt at moving the goal postiron fist isn't even rafael that's not even the right aps retard>and complete deflection
>>65194427>trust me bro islam is totally winning>waaahh the jews are genociding usPick one brics faggot
>>65196165>You do realize Abrams didn't start getting Trophy systems until after 2018, right?good you googled iti didn't say the americans i said the jews so how's that relevant >And what did the Jews succeed at? in developing what you failed at are we gonna pretend they didn't work in multiple wars the entire point you're trying to bury is thisthe initial argument you're trying to bury by deflecting >both russia and ukraine also tried to make APS systems >and none of those attempts are much of a success >something the israelis did succeeded at >i wont be surprised if they'll figure something out you failed at
>>65196135>>65196178That dude was a retard, but why are the mods so adamant about banning anyone who uses a slur to describe the jews? He didn't even use the proper slur, but the sanitized one.
>>65194507Uprising?They are becoming the police and mayors, buying up the franchises, and increasingly politicians.All they have to do is adjust laws and how things are enforced. The authoritarian surveilence state and capabilities of law enforcement and the military benefits them if they are in charge.They have the birth rates. Sharia can be implemented by vote. It is the former residents that will need uprisings that ai and government drones will be used to counter.Europe and the US were invaded by unarmed people and conquered because they had it in their minds that invasion always looks like hostile military forces. Turns out all you needed to do to defeat white people was put your weapons down when crossing borders and then they won't fight back.
>>65196233Just because it happened in the US, doesn't mean it'll happen in Europe. The debate is much more open about it in Europe than it is in the US, and there's also far more pushback, even among mainstream parties.
>>65196233For how many generations did your conquered people wear the queue? Even to this day, it's a racial stereotype that most people recognize, even if they don't understand the meaning behind it.
>>65194362>The Russo-Ukrainian War, and the massive losses being taken by IDF armor in Southern Lebanon, have demonstrated that combined arms warfare as we know it is completely obsolete. In Ukraine, artillery and drones and defensive lines in WW1 style attrition positional warfare has largely replaced tanks. The Israelis are likely to adopt similar tactics (as they did during the 1982-2000 occupation) using heavily fortified positions such as Beaufort castle once they dig in for the long haul.It's a problem that can be easily solved by outfitting a tanks with a remote turret equipped with radars to detect FPV drones and a 7.62x51/54R turret to shoot them down. Still hasn't been implemented en masse because the "radars" part of it is expensive as fuck to mass produce, and they cost more than RCWS turrets.
>>65196251>doesn't mean it'll happen in Europe.rofl, lmao even
>>65194362Ground armoured warfare is over until viable automated counter battery starts working behind the frontlines, there may be a viability gap to exploit as a long range 120mm HE launcher.Air armoured warfare is the new meta.There will still be room for armoured logistics vehicles and armoured artillery, the distances for economical viability just shifted to further out and into more hardened earth positions.Unironically those Russian moveable cope bunkers might be the only viable option until APS becomes truly viable, and even then those bunkers on tracks are pretty shit when facing more than an RPG
>>65195080https://x.com/shlomo_karhi/status/1935330720362139958get rektfuck Putin btw, Russia should die in nuclear hellfire
>>65196392based moderate
>>65194362Big guns are still necessary on the battlefield and the only reliable way to bring a 125mm to a gunfight is still a tracked vehicle. Enemy troops sheltering in a building still need to be flushed out by big guns blasting load bearing walls from the ground. Assaults into enemy positions still need armored vehicles to bring infantry in, they still need close support from armor. You can't occupy a region with nothing but drones, eventually you need people on the ground to make forward positions.
>>65196223it's just the shitalian which doesn't need a real reason to get banned now because he's always ban evading the previous one
>>65196392Yes cumrag, Israelis are hiding their losses)))(despite posting obituaries)
