>armed with AR-15 >Lithium ion battery for power>Build price around 15k>Can operate for 9 hours on a single charge>Easy to charge on the battlefield/front line through a solar panel array, power cable line from your base or through a portable power stationEach American can pay for 5 battle robots to replace him on the battlefield each year. Literally tens of millions of these fuckers occupying some third world nation with 10 million extra coming each year
i was with you until you said solar.
Those things would be lost by the thousands for every competent soldier they killed (see - every piece of clone wars related media), and are only good for keeping down illiterate civilians armed with barely functional small arms.So yeah, solid occupation force in a shithole that you don't care about in the slightest, hot garbage in a real war.
>>65195239Which Star Wars droid would make a good frontline unit in a real war according to you?
>>65195224>build price around 15kSo this thing is going to be as shitty as a commercial lawn mower? You know they have to hire a garage of Mexicans to keep them up and running. You know what, yeah, this is starting to sound like some USMC shit.
>>65195241BX (bottom left) is roughly equivalent in capability to a human soldier and is thus probably alright, although cost becomes a serious question with those given how rare and bespoke they are.Droideka (bottom left) functionally acts like a machine gun equipped tankette, and is probably solid in conjunction with more competent forces. It is still going to die a lot because man portable heavy weapons will still do horrible things to it, but it should create enough problems that it justifies itself even if it can't do more than suppress enemy positions and draw fire.B1 and B2 both have the same issue - they are fine at standing around in the open, but that is suicidal in a real war. A droid needs to intelligently move from cover to cover and engage in small unit tactics like human soldiers do, or it is going to get slaughtered just like human soldiers who fail to properly use small unit tactics get slaughtered. The only way around this is to be durable enough and dangerous enough that it gains fire superiority in a small arms exchange regardless of how poor its tactics are, but B1s fail that miserably and B2s are pretty so-so at the best of times given how individual clones routinely gun them down.
>>65195277>Droideka (bottom left)Derp, Drodeka is bottom right. I blame Australia being upside down. B1 is top left and B2 is top right, for those of you who live in a box and have never seen Star Wars episodes 1-3.
>>65195224>Roger Roger I thought machines were supposed to be efficient
>>65195239stormtroopers lost to ewoks, droids beat the gungans
>>65195300>complacent garrison force loses to surprise attack by local insurgents supported by foreign special forces>droids bullied primitives in an open field fight where neither side is engaging in sophisticated tactics, but the droids have tanks and the gungans are gungansYes?
>>65195239>>65195241This was by design even in the fantasy. IE, the cure to what made the bots incompetent was already there: better software, and if you really needed to stretch the chassis: boutique hardware and matching equipment.Was unironically the perfect bot force. >>65195248Space Mexicans drive around in giant olds mobiles through the desert and just scrap them. The maintenance is done by other robots overseen by space Asians (literal bug people).
>>65195291By design redundancies to maintain the coherency of their programming.It’s basically a spiritual mantra>>65195322Bots basically won every objective that was dictated on an open battlefield, even if they got massacred by the clones.It was a pure numbers game. Clones being better soldiers and having better equipment only let them win where they could perform precise interventions within or without the above contexts.
>>65195224>each droid has identical paint wear
>>65195241Could a clone army beat Russia in Ukraine?
>>65195391Depends on how many there are, I wonder how they would react and approach the drone threat
>>65195241>>65195277Droidekas were canonically super expensive, basically could be considered as hyper-mobile armor assets with light weaponry (HMGs only) in terms of both cost and durability. They were too expensive to be produced on the scale needed for frontline troops. Maybe even more expensive than armor, but just so fucking useful and effective that it was worth using a lot of them? Also iirc they burn through energy reserves like crazy, so not ideal for things like guard duty.B1 and B2 with better software like >>65195324 says was the solution. B1s in particular could be very potent when upgraded, since they ARE actually capable of agility at least on the level of a normal human. BX was superior to those upgraded B1s, but yeah, clearly cost was an issue given how rare they were
>>65195699>not ideal for things like guard dutyWouldn't being closer to a method of recharging make them better at guard duty?
>>65195391They already are, I don’t know why they decided to an aging British politician though.
>>65195239wasn't the EU explanation that they were originally just low cost security bots? that always made sense to me
>>65195224I love the way they look.
>>65195709Yeah if you had that available then they'd be fine for it. You did occasionally see them pulling guard duty in important places where presumably they'd be very close to a recharging station
>>65195715Kek
>>65195358in real manufacturing this type of thing is common. parts get consistently banged and scraped by the same poorly designed processes and no one fixes it because no one cares.
>>65195277Reason the BX is so expensive is partially because it wasn't mass-produced like the B1 and B2; physically, it isn't even made out of any exotic space metals like the B2 is, but titanium and steel. For an army bound to a single planet, the BX is an adequate model for your basic troop.
>>65195277The BX seemed more capable than the rank and file human/clone troopers
>>65195224>no FPV dronesJoke
>>65195391since humans can shoot drones down with the right ammo, clones with their superior reflexes and perceptions as well as all the targeting tech in their helmets would eliminate drones as a threat and put kino back on the menu
>>65195765After playing Pragmata I would hazard they might charge the same way Diana does in the game, at least on ships and inside installations:wireless charging apparati built into the floors.
>>65195224I’m good clanker
>>65195239Literally doesn't matter. Competent soldiers, even clones with fast aging, take better part of a decade to grow. Battle droids can be made from scratch in hours. And as others have pointed out, competence is a software issue; they can be aimbots if not coded by jeets.
Lucas can't into numbers. CIS had such ridiculous amount of manpower AND ships that they would btfo every faction in the SW universe combined.
>>65195277B2s required the clones to bring oversized heavy blaster rifles as standard issue weapons, and then load them up with premium-quality ammo on top of that. Those damn things are seriously hard to put down for how cheap and expendable they are.
>>65195734
>>65196254He sort of knew, The republics big advantage was the jedi, but Mace even says before it happens that if it comes to war there will not be enough jedi to protect the republic.
>>65196290True, you only see the jedi mow them down with no trouble because they're fucking jedi.
>>65195239>Keeping down illiterate civilians armed with barely functional firearmsSo…all of Europe, Russia, Middle East, India, Canada, South America, Australia, and Africa?
>>65195224>George LickassNah, bro. Pierre Sprey (aka Fighter Mafia) was right all along. Drones proved his theory that cheap disposable aircraft (drones) is the way to go vs ultra expensive and fat yuuuge multirole manned fighters. He was just ahead of his time.
>>65195331The droids also regularly lost in space, and if you can’t win in the skies you won’t reach the ground.
>>65196347That might hold weight if Sprey wasn't actively vocally anti-drone and viewed any kind of smart targeting as a liability. Sprey didn't predict shit, he just fetishized cheapness, which just happens to be tangentially relevant to the current situation.
>>65195241I would flee at the sight of a droideka.
>>65195859There are droids the size of mice to house cats. Fully space capable btw.
>>65195224>Cant reliably hit a target at twenty paces>>65195241Ahh the upgrades that let them hit targets all the way to thirty paces.
>>65195224That's great except China makes all the batteries and solar. Taiwan makes all the microchips.
>>65195241The non-networked B1 droid had 2 problems:Fragile due to poor quality control.Dumb AI due to underpowered computer hardware.The central computer B1 seemed to be poorly managed, which is understandable as tradefed didn't have professional military academics and were just rushing objectives without strategy. I find it interesting that jamming wasn't effective against the Ep1 droids. Maybe the EU or other series addresses jamming of control ship signals rather than the disabling of such control ships. If they're unjammable, the control ship makes sense to retain.
>>65195322The gungan distraction was literally just that. It was to monopolize the occupation force resources so the capital could be infiltrated, naboo starfighters recaptured and take the frogface leader hostage. The plan probably would have failed if the control ship wasn't destroyed in divine providence by the force child. The naboo pilots were all useless trash.Capturing gunray or whatever with the droid control ship still working would probably just result in a long hostage standoff and gunray being replaced with a new CEO. I don't know how important gunray is, maybe he's important enough for a hostage deal.
>>65196347The only thing the reformers are right about is that the M113 despite being vulnerable to heavy machine gun fire is still a useful APC and can be used as both a battle taxi and an direct fire assault vehicle for close deployment and direct fire support to infantry.That said the M113 doesn't really have any advantages over an armored car or MRAP who can do the same things.
>>65195734>>65196301kek
>>65196031>hot brown tomboy cloneGod imagine being surrounded by them as a padawan
>>65197258Eh, I think it became passé to use the moment personal body armor eclipsed its base armor in technical protective value. We still need a tracked metal box, but something like either the tracked Stryker made of modern alloys if you want to keep it lightweight or that one project to rip the turret off the Bradley that somehow went nowhere for something with better base protection.
>>65196333Let's not forget Mexico and most of Asia.
>>65197335AMPV didn't go nowhere, it's winning as we speak. It's replaced mortar carriers, ambulances, and generic support vehicles in several of the armored brigades so far.
>>65197372Huh, that's a pleasant surprise to me. I'm just used to the Army cancelling anything that isn't upgrading our existing hardware over the past couple decades.
>>65195241>Which Star Wars droid would make a good frontline unit in a real war according to you?The Dwarf Spider Droid>All terrain, can climb sheer surfaces and transverse river/sea beds>Can see perfectly in pitch black darkness >Has a rapid fire cannon that can eliminate infantry, armoured vehicles and low flying aircraft >Works in coordination with other spider droids and acts as a spotter for the larger OG-9 homing spider droid>Able to manoeuvre and engage hostiles in tight urban or underground areas>Extremely personable
>>65195239>>65195241Droidekas are absolutely busted, they're insanely powerful in every Star Wars game and also canonically in the movies seeing how Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan ran from them. The CIS should have made more droidekas instead of fucking around with SBDs.
>>65195734Truth nuke
>>65196031>>65197327>Execute order 67My God
>>65195224>tens of millions of these fuckers occupying some third world nation with 10 million extra coming each year>not "WELL ON THE WAY"
>>65198530full-spec Droidekas were just like Magnaguards; i.e. the only type of droid that could in fact stand up to Jedi was also too expensive to be deployed solelythe ol' hi-lo mix all over again
>>65195224Yeah but then the Boris Johnson clone army can take them easily.
>>65196031Deploy the rape droids
>>65199389>order 67fuck that, I want Order 69>>65197258reformers are a broken clock with a nigh-unfalsifiable position: they can almost never go wrong in their armchair wartheorycrafting by simply demanding more of (current thing)>>65196380>he just fetishized cheapness, which just happens to be tangentially relevant to the current situation.correct>>65196347>Pierre Sprey (aka Fighter Mafia) was right all along. Dronesdon't acquire targets using Mark One Eyeball last I checkedremember, Sprey insisted that infrared and radar would never be able to replace eyeballs in looking for ground targets, because something something Hans-Ulrich Rudelso, if you are claiming that drones = blitzfighters, then in the recent mass drone barrage, Russia would have lost an additional 1,800 personnel and only 10% would have even hit their targets (never mind coming back from the one-way trip)all because Pyotr Spreyovich said the Geran Blitzfighter must be equipped with a big cannon, bombs, and no guided ordnance whatsoever
>Be you in 2033>Try to steal an old, rickety 2022 Tesla>You accidentally set off the alarm>The McPolice have already been notified>They send out the camera drones and the McRape bots>You see the McRape bots come running around the corner of block in your rearview mirror>their cocks flapping as they run>One of the Drones EMPs the car killing it and causing the doors to lock>feeling of panic, and raw fear swells up in your chest right as the McRape bots make it the car>They surround it and one smashes the windshield and grabs you by the collar>You try to break free but it has a grip of iron>Two other McRape bots come over and help the first pin you to the ground ass up>The first one rips of your clothing while the others restrain you> As you strain your neck trying to see what is going on you see their 9 inch silicon dicks beginning to grow and harden>The first one now mounting your naked ass, presses its rubber hardon into you>Another one uses its cock to gag you by gaping your throat with its 8 inch silicon girth>The camera drones begin recording and live streaming to all the smart billboads nearby>It begins thrusting using its McVaxx fluid mixed with blood for lube>After 30 minutes it finishes, filling you with its McFlurry goodness>the bots sprint away to the scene of another crime as quickly as they came>You lay there a traumatized, McBuckbroken shell of a man
>>65195833Why are you defending low effort slop?Yeah there is consistency in wear coming from the same process but they're only similar, not fucking ctrl+c ctrl+v identical.
>>65199431 <- man has a pointeven when LOTR ctrl+c/v'd the Rohirrim, they made sure to have blocks of IIRC ~30-40 Rohirrim dressed and equipped differently so that the ctrl+c/v would be unnoticeableand they probably used different captures / renders of each adjacent block as well
>>65196254 >Lucas can't into numbers. CIS had such ridiculous amount of manpower AND shipsMy brother in Christ, Lukas literally established the universe and none of the canon sources suggest that the CIS suggest that they would have defeated the Republic, yet alone the Empire. The CIS was a confederation of 10.000 planets (most of which were not as industrialised as the core worlds of the Republic), the Republic a system of over 1.000.000 Planets. The Republic had quintillions of sentient citizens, a non-clone Army of conscripts would have easily dwarfed the production capabilities of the CIS. Take the 1s battle of Geonosis, literally where the Republic got caught off-guard against a prepared CIS-force. In both Legends and canon the number of clones amounted to ca. 200.000. There were around 1 Million B1-Droids, tens of tousands of B2 Droids and a few tousand of each other droid type. Let's assume that the CIS had 1.300.000 droids and let's ignore that the average B1 Droid is inferior to someone who has no military training, the CIS only has a 6.5-1 numbers advantage to the clones in one of their most important battles. Now imagine if instead of the Clones, Palpatine would have used conscripts from the 1 Million Worlds of the Republic, some of which are basically hive cities. The only reason the Republic used Clones is because palpatine needed a quasi-droid force that obeys every command for order 66. You are also ignoring shipbuilding. The CIS only a slight advantage (Only Clone wars shows a good picture, usually 3 or 5 Frigattes to 1 Venator) while having inferior ships and admirals. The only significant advantage of the CIS were starfighters. And until the OT Trilogy Starfighters were not as important ebcause they had much less capabilities than the ships of the rebel alliance, especially the mass produced trash of the CIS.Really, only thing which doesn't make sense is why no other faction ever considered using Buzz droids.
>>65199651>Buzz droidsoverengineered wunderwaffle compared to prox fuzed high explosive in spaceNeimoidians probably used it because they think the answer to everything is "make a droid for it"hammers and nails
>>65197356I don't think I've ever actually actually paid attention to what the other gungans were doing in that scene before. It looks like they were just sort of gently shoving or hugging the droid army.
>>65199783what'll really cook your noodle is that the ones all the way at the back are standing still; it's a still background image
>>65195224I don't think every American is earning $75,000 a year dude. That would be heaven though.
>>65199891The mean US individual income is $67,000, maybe that's what anon meant.Even the median is very high, at about $45,000 iirc.
>>65199891>>65199956Reminds of that quote concerning the javelin missile, some thing about the missile and it's launcher cost X dollars, said missile is being fired by a soldier who doesn't make that in a year, at someone who won't make that in his lifetime, is a fact so absurd it almost makes the war on terror seem winnable.
>>65200074I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Bank clerks wiring hundreds of millions of dollars every day, eight hours a day.Anyway... Yes, the numbers are a bitch. So with the knowledge that 1 year of your life is worth more than 10 of some benighted turdworlder's, you can be grateful that we live in this society instead of that, or moan with the other iPhone-Communist sheep about how "We LiVe In A sOcIeTy" when reality is that we are the 10%ers of the world.
>>65196333Europe is fucked regardless because their population of fighting age males either flees when called upon (refugees) or hates the government for their active role in cultural erosion
https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukraine-testing-shows-limited-suitability-of-phantom-mk-1-humanoid-robots-for-battlefield-use/>However, while the MK-1 demonstrates the usefulness of the core technology, it remains far from the concept of “super soldiers.” The Phantom MK-1 can carry only about 20 kilograms of payload, is not waterproof, and lacks sufficient battery life for large-scale deployment.>Common limitations of humanoid robotsHumanoid robots are heavy and expensive; the Phantom costs about $150,000. They also require regular recharging, can malfunction, and often lose balance. The Phantom MK-1 is powered by about 20 motors, each of which must function reliably.>Deploying humanoid systems alongside regular troops also creates additional risks. Captured systems can become a source of sensitive data, as they store and transmit significant information. There is also the risk of signal jamming or spoofing.>Another risk is the humanoid system’s ability to accurately assess situations. Artificial intelligence remains imperfect and can produce “hallucinations.” AI models may also suffer from algorithmic bias or behavioral drift, with decision-making potentially deviating over time as systems adapt in real-world conditions.:(
>>65195241>>65198530Rollerchads stay winning>>65196254I get the impression that the Republic usually outclasses CIS in any given 1 on 1 and generally seem to be worth multiple of their equals.Average clones>B1, maybe about equal with B2ARC or commando trooper>probably all of the droid infantryATTE>spider droid, AAT, maybe MTTLAAT>lack of similar air support role outside of that thing from Battlefront which sucked by comparison if you count that as canonARC 170>vulture droidsAcclamator, Venator, Victory>Munificent, ProvidenceI think the Lucrehulk is the only thing the CIS actually has going for it in terms of dominating the field unless they completely swarm something and its never really depicted as being that meaningful
>>65195277I always appreciate how Republic Commando made the B2 feel extremely intimidating. Health, size, damage output, sound design, everything. It's an effort to get rid of one or two in the game...make that 4 or more? Kinda tough.
>>65199651It’s really comes down to what the goal is and who knows what.What did dooku want?What did palps want?What did the banks want?What did the outer/inner rim want?The inner spheres where already dominant and just wanted to crush the separatists, so that’s easy.The separatists are more of a mixed bag, ranging the entire imaginable gambit most likely.Also>what about the huts?TLDR dooku was positioned to actually successfully not only succeed, but form a counter to republic power.The republic was weak and unwilling to actually exert itself across the stars any more. All dick and no balls so to speak, and or vice versa with the CAS. That’s why the droids and clones were needed.Only a few worlds where actually ready and willing/able to go to war over it, and their species all get named.
>>65199723>Neimoidians probably used it because they think the answer to everything is "make a droid for it">hammers and nailsI always figured they were for bypassing shields. Probably still overengineered for that but droid brains are cheap in SW.
>>65200724The final hold on the Acclamator is still pretty stressful but most of the time it's easy enough to just throw a grenade from cover and shoot their face off as they stand in the open, which is probably what a clone would do against them in a realistic fight and kind of highlights the problem with them
>>65195224bump
>>65202074Stop bumping your own thread fagort
>>65200827Droida and their components are not cheap in SW, In the OT Luke's family had to buy used from the jawas and even then could only afford two that they assumed they would have to fix up. Keep in mind Lume's family, being water farmers on a desert planet would have been relatively well off.
>>65203473Smart and utilitarian droids are expensive but a B1 is almost as cheap as the rifle it totes around and buzz droids don't need to do anything but locate something that looks mildly important and stick a drill into it. They also only need to be durable enough to survive getting on the ship. Also, the Trade Federation is itself a gigantic manufacturing power able to slam complex component out at scale, they aren't paying the podunk tax for being on a sparsely populated desert planet that barely gets any traffic on a good day.
>>65203596I think a large part of the B1's cheapness was from the fact they might had literally made over a hundred billion of them over the span of the Trade Federation's existence; they are in the running for the most common model of humanoid droid in existence. Under that metric, the B1 is actually pretty good value and you do see post war battle droids converted into labor units in places like Plazir-15. They'd certainly be a better fit for most menial jobs than a 3PO unit.
>>65204035Also at the end of the day how much does the steel and plastic for their bodies and the copper and aluminum for their circuits cost? A midrange smartphone has great camera and microphone sensors and only cost about 300 dollars.Mast production of course makes them very cheap but the fact that all the material that goes into a basic droid are so common and cheap makes scaling the mass production easy.
>>65197356you're telling me this isn't a dark lord of the sith?
>>65198305>all terrainnot with those exposed cylinders lmaoeven in clean factory environments that shit gets clogged
>>65199431why are you accusing me of defending it? i'm talking about real life, dumbass. ironically, your post is low effort slop because of the lack of thought and bad faith you applied with its creation.
>>65195721The TPM-era ones are also meant to be more of a threat because they relied on a central control ship to offload a lot of computing, but that being such a single point of failure that it ended the whole occupation was compelling enough to ditch it. Unfortunately the B1s were never designed to run entirely on internal compute so they end up being fucking morons when used as more conventional droids. They were just already tooled up to make a trillion of the things so they went ahead and spammed them anyway.
>>65195721The only explanation that actually would have made sense was that B1s were Forklift bots, and B2s were just crude uparmorings of that forklift, and that the "basic battle droid" was actually the Destroyer, being too expensive to deploy en masse.
>>65208931That's exactly how B1s and B2s are used post-war. They really do seem to be general-purpose droids who were chosen to be the backbone of the CIS for versatility reasons.
>>65195224Battle droids are definitely going to be a thing in the next 20 years. Humanoid robots are going to be all over the place soon including on the battlefield.>>65195239That's part of their purpose. They're super cheap and super expendable. Yeah your guys take out 100 for every 1 guy you lose, but you're not fighting 100 to 1 ratios. You're fighting 1,000 to 1. That said yeah, not the best. They're security droids (great for occupation) being used as front line soldiers and that started as getting around Republic restrictions in the same way the Lucrehulks were battleships in all but name prior to the clone wars.B-2s were the purpose built true battle droids. Programming issues that make them do stupid things are probably the easiest problem to solve. If I remember right there was at least one B-1 that got custom software and it turned into an outright aimbot with that same dopey personality. Imagine getting squad wiped by a B-1 and the last thing you hear is it saying something painfully stupid."Hey Unit 8492, do you think love can bloom even on a battlefield?" as everything fades out.>>65195241B-2, BX, and droideka. Leave the B-1s as back line forces running things like logistics and basic security. Droidekas were horrendously expensive but could also be paid for with literal fresh meat. BX droids probably could've been cheaper if made at scale instead of as special low number units.
>>65209005The story could have elevated itself a great deal by having a fleet of cargo haulers essentially holding up a planet with a "fake army", but old George wanted a setting where legitimate threats on the battlefield march shoulder to shoulder and slip on banana peels going "oh no whoopsie!!!" and fall over like dominoes.
>>65210002>a fleet of cargo haulers essentially holding up a planet with a "fake army"idgi, elaborate please?sounds interesting
>>65210044I think anon is suggesting that the bulk of the Trade Federation's fighting strength should've been a bluff. Probably an impressive vanguard to wow people and do a little real fighting but then most of the 'army' is bulked out with shit never meant to fight that they've painted in army colours and maybe handed a blaster.Basically turn it into a twist that the droid army is useless into a fight instead of plot convenience.
>>65210002The trade federation having a decent Space Force and a mediocre ground army of warehouse robots with guns makes sense from the perspective that it would be similar to Walmart, Amazon and some arms companies forming their own coalition. They naturally would excel with space drones as protecting their logistics that they hyper specialized into is already likely done, so you just scale up production of your protection drones. Ground army is an afterthought, after all the Trade Federation never wanted to do full blown war with the Republic but rather just needed the bare minimum to make any Republic force outside of a total militarization not an issue, which was Palpatine's goal. The Trade Federation was a well crafted faction for Palpatine's purposes in transforming a Republic that shied away from standing armies into an Empire with full fleets and armies.
>>65200688>the LucrehulkThat's a converted bulk freighter, it wasn't able to push back a dozen Gucci planetary militia fighters. Its basically an evergreen with welded plates and a bunch of flak 88 bought at discount on the deck. Damage control runs on the hopes and dreams of retarded droids.CIC is design for commercial operations and staffed by those frogs that couldn't cut it as finance bros or where to much into fighting piratesThe only thing it does well is ample cargo space, and finance magic for summoning drone swarms.[spoiler]I still love it[/spoiler]
>>65210190ah, I see>>65210213the main issue with the Prequel Trilogy Old Republic world is that while it is a fascinating setting and I love it, SO FUCKING MUCH of the information we get about it comes from sourcebooks, novels, comics, toons, production notes etc when it should have been in the fucking movie in the first placewhy is Tartakovsky's cartoon Clone Wars so acclaimed? because besides being fucking awesome, it fleshed out the war that barely made it into the ROTS moviewhy is the Clone Wars arc in general so beloved? because of the tie-in games, novels, and comics; Republic Commando, Battlefront, etcwhy is Matt Stover's novelisation better by far than the Revenge Of The Sith movie itself? because it explained Anakin's fall better than anything else ever didwhich is a failure of film-makingI can't be the only one who remembers that just prior to the ROTS release, George Lucas acknowledged that the movie doesn't do a good job of depicting the Clone Wars and the gradual destruction of the Republic and decimation of the Jedi Order and that he considered making the PT a quadrilogy but he decided not to because he wanted to stick to the trilogy "tradition", as Hollywood had never had a 4-part movie series before(and no doubt because the studio had only contracted for 3 movies and he could not alter the deal)also, I vividly remember them encouraging us to watch the Tartakovsky series because they said the series, especially Season 2, would help bridge the gap between AOTC and ROTS and explain the opening events of ROTS much better. I personally was quite shocked when ROTS opened and it was virtually the next scene after the final cartoon episode. which is a massive timeskip for ordinary movie-watchers after AOTC.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrmok1n9l_0TL;DR the Prequel era works despite the Prequel Trilogy, not because of it
>>65210213B-1s were actual security droids, not "warehouse" droids. Pre-CIS they sucked because the central computer running the show was a weak point. By the late clone wars they still sucked because even though now they could operate completely on their own the coding was pajeet tier at absolute best. Regardless they were still shoehorned in to many roles they just flat weren't made for. Basically sending armies of Paul Blart: Robot Edition to war.On top of that the guy running the Republic and the guy running the CIS were secretly the same person. Palpatine wanted to maximize suffering, especially of the Jedi. If the B-1s had been competent the war would've been over in a month or two as gorillions of droids face the much smaller and slower to replenish clone army.>>65210236The Lucrehulks of the pre-CIS Trade Federation were as heavily armed as they could be without running afoul of Ruusan Reformation restrictions which were basically the Star Wars equivalent of the London Naval Treaty. They were meant to be totes fr not a battleship wink wink and horrendously outgun most local forces.What got them in Episode 1 was actually the same problem ISDs have. Hilariously garbage point defense because "Oh boy look at all those piles of cheap fighters we have! They'll protect us from the outrageously superior enemy fighters!"
>>65210315>the guy running the Republic and the guy running the CIS were secretly the same person. Palpatine wanted to maximize suffering, especially of the Jedi.this is the main factor distorting all evaluations of Republic vs CIS grand strategy.
>>65210236iirc the CIS started pimping them out throughout the war after TPM with more and bigger guns and their fighter armament probably diversified from associating with other factions. I dont know if anything in lore is reasonably comparable in size and firepower until they develop the first ISD and even then idk who wins in a 1v1.
>>65211149You'd hope an ISD would be able to take out a Lucrehulk considering it's a converted civilian ship.
>>65210354It is important to remember that Palpatine never wanted the CIS to win, he just wanted to seem like a big enough threat. For long enough for the Republic to transfer all real power to him, so that he could start remoulding the republic into the new sith empire with minimal loss of worker bees and minimal damage to galactic infrastructure. Palpatine set it all up so that he could make them go away as soon as he didn't need them anymore.
>>65211155I did the math from wookiepedia numbers and the Lucrehulk is about 14.5x larger of a battleship but their armament listing suggest the ISD was much better for capital ship combat while the Lucrehulks space was mostly to function as a carrier and could shit out over a 1000 more fighters. Guess its hard to say.
>>65210044So you have a set up where these assholes, the trade federation, have launched a surprise blockade of this planet, frantically rushing to get the queen of the planet to sign a peace deal before anyone can react. Their ships look massive, their army looks massive, but it's a scam, it's a con. These are freight shippers, not generals. Their ships are massive because they're freighters, not battleships. Their fighters look imposing but they're just flying power-jacks (their wings even look like they'd plug into a shipping container and essentially tug-boat it around). Their troop transports are just cargo transports. Their "soldiers" are warehouse drones that move boxes with basic programming to identify a target, turn, and fire straight foreword. It's very imposing to see ten million guns when you haven't had a war in twenty generations, and any real resistance is smashed by the Trade Federation's small and expensive actual army. The "real" warbots are the Destroyers, extremely expensive, shielded, autonomous war machines capable of forming and carrying out complex plans. Maybe the "real" tanks (as opposed to what amount to space UPS cars) are piloted by a Destroyer rolling into a tiny cockpit just big enough for himself, you could imagine being able to tell a "real" TF military vehicle from a "fake" one by it having a "slot" for a Destroyer to roll into. You could even give the Destroyers a little bit of personality as is customary. Imagine the scene where the ten droids open the poison fog room in the beginning of the movie. The chink giving them orders looks like a retard, but imagine if it was another droid assuring them that the jedi "must" be dead and they should go in and destroy the remains, meanwhile he and his buddies are speeding there, and he's just sending the cannon fodder in to buy time.
>>65210044>>65212027This way you can still have your army of ten billion retards that can't aim and pose like zero threat to an army of one million elite shock troopers, and it's an intentional thing, a trick, rather than a goofball loony toons silly billy reality. The Trade federation thought this was a lightning fast con, they thought this was a real slick maneuver they were pulling and they'd be in and out in three days, not knowing they were being suckered into a larger con to destabilize galactic politics and sell the senate on creating an army of doomtroopers. Every hundred thousand or million or whatever B1s is controlled by an individual ship, because that's the one they're a "part" of, they're literally just supposed to be loading and unloading that ship. If you want the "we only have to destroy one ship" gag, you can still justify that by saying one ship is boosting the signal of all the others, who ordinarily only have a range of a couple miles (the B1s are only supposed to operate a loading dock).If you want to have the successive generations of B1s more independent, and still have them be retarded, say that the Trade Federation is bootstrapping them with whatever autonomous behavior modules they can buy, and they don't care where they're from as long as they can hold "Identify Ally" and "Pull trigger.exe" at the same time they're just slapping any old soul into an Amazon drone and handing it a blunderbuss. Have the B2s literally just be the B1 with a massive but shitty suit of armor bolted on it, made out of melted garbage cast into a shape. When the CIS starts to form, the Tech union or whoever you want nabs that contract, "upgrading" B1s by the thousands but they're still just toy soldiers that stand in the open firing wildly.
>>65212050B1's COULD be very dangerous if they were using better weapons, fuck if you gave them all PPSh-41's and programmed "deathblossom.exe" as their primary battle tactic then the numbers start making horrifying sense, it doesn't matter how elite your clones are when they are constantly suppressed.
>>65195241b2 super battle droid
>>65211275Not just that, he wanted to quash any semblance of reasonable rebellion before he had to encounter them. With its resources spent in the war and its leadership decapitated on Mustafar, the only people who could oppose the empire would be ragtag misfits with no money, no momentum, and no clue. If it weren't for Luke, the rebellion would have eaten shit the moment the headquarters was hit on Yavin IV.The clones were meant to betray the Jedi and kill almost all of them. The Jedi were meant to fight the CIS and wear them down. The CIS were meant to fail and, in failing, embolden the senate into the formation of an empire. Palpatine has to be one of the wisest Sith lords of all time for the clone wars alone, and there was more to him.
>>65212087In any given era there are two types of sith. The ooga booga kind, and the get shit done kind. Palpatine is the poster boy for the latter.
>>65197219true, china is closer to a droid army i mean just look at the B1
>>65195241Take a b1, spruce it's movement capability a bit to be more flexible in some ways, give it programming more equal to commando droids, now you have the best of the B1's cheaper numbers, the BX's capabilities, give those fuckers decent GL's or launchers and you have B2 capabilities just without the front face armor. Rolly polly olly is just too hyper specific to be replaced in purpose
>>65212439B1s are extremely agile with resilient constituent parts for their cost. It’s their fragility and shit processor parameters that screw them. Fortifying them skyrockets manufacturing cost. Maxxing their droid brains is exacting and laborious.
>>65212061B1s do not consistently have the motor control to "suppress" anything which is why battles are fought at ranges where there is a significant chance of a fist fight deciding the flow of battle. Padme was able to hit shit with a B1's gun at like five times the range they are.
>>65212439Do you have any idea how many procurement clusterfucks have started out of 'take the cheap thing and make it a bit better and X and Y so it's like the more expensive thing'?
>>65212486thisand then they blame "the bean-counters" when the bean-counters were telling them all along that they couldn't afford the "little bit better"
>>65195391Kys
>>65213214>tfw no b1 war trophy harem
>>65196031
>>65212439Isn't that just the B1 assassin droids? Like the sniper droid from that pic
>>65199431this image isn't from the movie dumbass, it's like an amateur 3D modeler's image
>>65199431His original point was a good one. Also they could be weathered purposefully post production, exacerbating the effect.
>>65212550Shockingly, it often turns out there's reasons why expensive things are more expensive beyond someone having a giggle at your expense.It is in fact typically the things you want to make the cheap thing do that are the entire reason the expensive thing is expensive.
>>65214119>didn't hit the principal
>>65195239Describing clones as "competent soldiers" is a massive understatement. Clones were designed from one of the greatest mercenaries in the galaxy and trained from birth to fight. They managed to junk droids (whose own side was being intentionally sabotaged internally) while also being supplemented by loyal planetary defense forces. The CIS was absolutely busted using personal security droids, converted shipping vessels, and having a handful of actually competent tacticians who lost because of space wizard fuckery.
>>65216705The Clone infantry would have been spanked by US soldiers from the fucking Civil War.
>>65218343Those dudes have like 100+ yard spear throws and the environment was absolutely shitty to fight in tight snow filled canyons. I'm not going to fault the clones for getting fucked up by a bunch of outright yetis. Especially considering the whole problem was caused by having to babysit a retarded local politician that is constantly trying to get himself killed at their expense. If they could've just stunned him and tossed him in a cell I'd bet that whole arc would've gone MUCH better.
>>65218343>>65218395>Filoni fanfictiondisregarded
>>65218405Dude... you posted it yourself with that picture of a Filoni Clone Wars Talz warrior. The whole point is administrative retardation can fuck up the best troops.
>>65195734won't the jet exhaust make their legs uncomfortably warm?
>>65218395>Those dudes have like 100+ yard spear throwsOkay well a Musket has like 100+ yard lethality too warsie.
>>65218405Say the next line on the script.
>>65218343>>65218395Didn't a few US soldiers get ambushed by some giant cavemen tribals in Afghanistan and take losses from literal spears? Feels like there's a bullshit factor that overrides any tactical sensibility when you get an out-there enough scenario.
>>65220230They regularly throw spears competitively with our record javelin throws and know how to use their local terrain effectively. They're not just primitive pushovers.The biggest problem was that blue retard refusing to just sit down, shut up, and leave the Jedi and diplomats to their work. The most shining incompetence is nobody detained him when he started trying to launch his own little war. Not the clones he was getting killed. Not the Jedi whose mission he was fucking up. Not his own people. >>65220468That's cryptid stuff so certainly wouldn't call it even remotely definitive. Part of the story is the "spears" were basically sharpened telephone pole sized.The key point that needs to be understood is relatively primitive forces can fuck up much more modern forces with a good well executed plan. Certainly helps if the enemy "leadership" is incompetent too.
>>65213214god i wish that were me
>>65218418>you posted it yourself with that picture of a Filoni Clone Wars Talz warriorno that weren't me, that was my 1st post on the topic>>65220246>Say the next line on the script...and she was a good friend?
>>65195229The sun only puts out like 20 watts
>>65195224If the CIS only made commando droids, gave them the weaponry they had and made a program for them to make them more suited to infantry work the clone wars would have been a wash like nothing else
>>65220521>They regularly throw spears competitively with our record javelin throws and know how to use their local terrain effectively. They're not just primitive pushovers.Yes yes for the Stone age they're very impressive. Maybe the Grand Army of the Republic could even beat the Aztecs if they tried real real hard.
>>65224775Anon, are you really this dense? The whole point is extremely strong yeti-like sentients leveraged extreme terrain, their vastly superior local knowledge of it, and took on a superior force in planned ambushes maximizing the effectiveness of those factors. Similar has happened has happened throughout our own history where on paper primitives fuck up a force that should be superior by just about every metric. It's not exactly common but it does happen.You're also still ignoring that this was literally one retard forcing everyone to fight. The clones were ordered to protect that dipshit but when he went on his one man crusade that forced them to go along when nobody just did the smart thing and detained him. Unwilling participants make the whole thing worse. I get the feeling irl that guy would've simply been fragged and that would've been it.
>>65224875>Guys who would get creamed in the ACW are vulnerable to spear throwersIs a direct counter to the fantastical image warsies have of clone troopers as anything approaching, much less surpassing, modern infantry.
>>65224345>If the CIS only made commando droidsThey'd be bankrupt in ten days.
ACW soldiers thinking they can take on an army whose standard-issue weapon is for all intents and purposes a heavy machine gun has the same vibes as the bonglanders focusing on marksmanship during the opening of WWI because they thought they could snipe machine gun nests en-mass.
>>65230746>t. learned all military history from memes
>>65195224Where would we produce them? China would be churning them out. China would dominate. China will dominate.
>>65224875>Similar has happened has happened throughout our own history where on paper primitives fuck up a force that should be superior by just about every metric. It's not exactly common but it does happen.Something to that extent happened a couple of years ago when Indonesian specforce got ambushed by dudes armed with fucking bows & arrows in West Papua, the fucking modern specforces actually took causalities while the Papuans got away without even a scratch.
>>65232131Yeah but their amor is more like the introduction of tanks: small arms under certain tech levels are largely useless.Unless jawa are actually just Pygmy wookie
>>65230746>ACW soldiers thinking they can take on an army whose standard-issue weapon is for all intents and purposes a heavy machine gunHeavy machine gun with an effective range of 30 feet.One m2 Browning would have decisively ended more than half the on screen infantry battles in the Clone wars for whichever side had it.
>>65230746For your information chud, range>volume of fire, which is why the GREATEST MILITARY OF THE WORLD is discarding those plastic toy ARs for a real man's gun. Doubles as a hunting rifle.
>>65232158>small arms under certain tech levels are largely useless.Apparently not against stone spear points, Sand People Clubs, or blunt stone stalagtites under nothing but a ten foot drop..
>>65235801>“Apparently” being the whole point of the reply chain. All i said is how the armor is described, not i not how its respected in the main trilogy depictions.
>>65235801>>65236069In the Incredible Cross Sections AotC book clone armor, particularly Phase I is described as actually not being that great. It explicitly used the words "flak jacket" if I'm remembering right. It's firmly in "better than nothing" tier. It's good for shrapnel and might save your life from a blaster shot if you're lucky.Phase II solved some comfort issues and was a more effective/durable. Think of it like going from a good flack jacket to Lvl II or IIIa armor. Stormtrooper armor is where it started getting actually good between the three allowing wearers to survive hits that would've killed clones, still probably going to put you on your ass moaning and groaning. It's also significantly more resistant to physical attacks. Stormtrooper armor's problem is much bigger exposed bodysuit portions and that it still doesn't stop kinetic energy transfer very well. Stormtrooper is also the easiest of the three to move in. At some point post-Empire Stormtrooper armor got good enough to tank a dead on blaster shot to the chest.In Disney canon all armor protects at the plot's pleasure and the writers are mostly talentless hacks.
>>65236520I can't remember where, exactly, but I know I've read other sources that describe phase I as probably more protective, but also a bit of an ergonomic nightmare due to not being designed with much input from humanoids. The phase II is then a slight reduction of coverage in exchange for much better ergonomics and other feedback from real world use.That one strikes me as a bit of a nod to the way that PASGT was improved upon with IBA and MICH and the like.
>>65236520ICS suggests power levels for single shots from automatic hand weapons that would instantly drop entire platoons of troops the way we see them fight in the films, accurate out to miles away, meanwhile before and after it was published you had expanded universe writers talking about slugthrowers with ranges under a half a mile punching through and through stormtrooper's armor chest and back.
>>65196003Not in Star Wars. A lot of people forget that despite being "futuristic", Star Wars is still very much an analogue setting, thus wired plugs and direct interfacing for all.
>>65238161I remember hearing about some drama where several ICS books were done by a guy who essentially just wanted to inflate the numbers to win internet arguments versus Star Trek, which is so stupid I just about believe it.
>>65218423This is actually in the lore somewhere as a reason why organics can't really use STAPS.
>>65195734>>65218423>>65238471how do you land those things?
>>65238231That's absolutely the case. There's another star wars threads with all the cross section fags talking about how star destroyers shoot a million nukes a second, when they can be penetrated by crashing A wings moving at speeds people can watch cross the hull while having a conversation.
>>65195331>Bots basically won every objective that was dictated on an open battlefield, even if they got massacred by the clones.What about Geonosis, where they sent fifty gorillion droids into a straight open field meat grinder against less than a hundred thousand clones standing shoulder to shoulder with no cover and got annihilated in under twenty minutes?
>>65244324Geonosis was a surprise attack by the republic and even then most of the jedis sent there died (only 29 out of 212 Jedi survived). As for how many clones died I can't seem to find a definite number.Also the objective of the droids was to distract the republic forces so that the separatist leadership could flee which they achieved.
>>65195241The real answer is hyena bombers.
>>65200074>>65200109I got (You), Anons!
>>65238984Land speeders appear to produce an anti gravity field even when powered down. So the answer is you wait until it comes to a complete stop, then you step down of off it.
>>65195224Seriously, I think World War 3 is going to be another Panzer Division but China is going to fuck everyone up with Droid Division and nobody can at least at first keep up with the sheer numbers and they can probably conquer India in like 2 months so that fear will organize people to go to war.Sorry for the grim post on this whimsical topic.
>>65246855>Geonosis was a surprise attack by the republicThe battle in the field was two armies slamming into each other on even flat ground with plenty of time to face one another it wasn't exactly helm's deep.
>>65200109Retard every society on the planet is going to eat itself in your lifetime and that's a good thing.
I'm curious, aren't the B1 AIs intentionally nerfed due to the sheer amount of them? Star Wars seems to love giving advanced AI to every other random menial droid and doesn't really care about AI uprisings that much.
>>65251114They're nerfed because they were made to run off a control ship like in TPM, not be entirely independent units.
>>65195239Weapons are just tools to achieve an overall strategic aim. Droids open up new options because it allows landing armies without the political cost assosciated with a ground invasion. Ultimately there are things you can't do without a ground invasion. Take Iran for example. Trump would have needed to occupy the area around the strait to take away Iran's ability to achieve it. Because he was unwilling to pay the political cost involved in that, he chose to surrender instead and lost the war he started. Droids would have changed the outcome for even a total tard like him.
>>65250011>with plenty of time to face one anotherYes and no. The ground fight had pretty defined lines but you also had loads of Seperatist ships caught unawares on their launchpads since the Republic was air dropping a metric fuckton of heavy weapons directly on-site. That part isn't even EU; we see several Techno Union ships and at least one Luchrehulk core ship go up in flames trying to flee the battle.
>>65251474>>65250011that bit that is nuts is that it wasn't even a full invasion, just a rescue raid in force; Geonosis remained in CIS hands
>>65251344To be fair, if he wasn't a cheap ass he could had hired mercenaries off his own pocket to do the job to the same effect.
>>65251344>hasn't mentioned trump in five minutes>on the verge of death from tension
>>65212439Those are literally just B1 Assassin droids, but those were stupidly expensive compared to stock B1s. Which defeats the entire purpose of the B1s
>>65253694>B1 blaster rifle, B1 blaster pistol, B1 starfighter, B1 turbolaser...
>>65224345according to that rebels episode where they met that cis super tactical droid that didnt follow the shut down command, the cis was actually slowly winning the war and chance of a separatist defeat was only 29% or so, which is why the super tactical droid thought the shutdown command was a trick by the republic and didnt follow it.so basically the droid strategy was superior.
>>65253996>according to that rebels episode
>>65240937BDZ is still a thing no matter how much you yelp about it. <3
>>65196031>>65237517Already have canon female clones.>>65224345>>65253996IIRC Commando Droids cost ten times as much as a B1, so it was just more economical to build 10 B1s instead of a commando and take the zerg rush approach. Since the CIS was backed by all the corpo powers, but money still didn't grow on trees.
>>65246980Life insurance was 400,000. Meaning the soldier's life is worth the 80,000. Ise the javelin properly against an armored target like a tank and it becomes economical any way you look at it. Tank killing drones are coming in at $1000 now, pretty silly.I'm tired of third world reformer logic who thinks winning war is penny pinching your way to higher casualties.
>>65253877Just B1 yourself! Or not 2b, that is the query, whether tis profitable to endure the slings and arrows of outragous gungams or to take arms against a sea of clones, and by opposing end them. To deactivate - shutdown, no roger roger, and to shutdown we report the end the damage sensory perception of a thousand artificial voltage spikes.
>>65253996No, they weren't. Tactical Droids always overstimate their capabilities, TCW was always showing this. We are speaking of the literally same Tactical Droid that couldn't defeat a bunch of poorly armed Guerillas on Onderon despite stating that the rebels were unable to win.If the CIS was truly superior, the Sith wouldn't have bothered with a 1000 year old plan to sowly subvert the republic if they could have just mass produce droids to win. Furthermore, wars in star wars are decided by airpower, which the Republic was decidedly superior in because all the major shipbuilding industries were on their side.
>>65253996A tactical droid once refused to take cover because the tank he was standing on, not in, was immune to the explosive that landed right next to him.
>>65256802You're talking about Tactical Droids who have all the problesm you lsited, however Kalani was a Super Tactical Droid which avoided the worst flaws of their predecessors, also the failure on Onderon was caused by Rash, with the big turning point his attempt to publicly execute the former king Dendup which caused the royal guard to mutiny. Funnily enough Kalani predicted the disloyalty of the guard when he denied an order to let them be the ones to go after the insurgents earlier. Furthermore, the 4 droid gunships would have been sufficient in taking down all the rebels, but unbeknown to the Separatists and Kalani at the time, the republican secretly sent arms specifically to counter them.If he was given the necessary time and reinforcements, he would have won, but Dooku instead had him withdraw all forces.
You're talking about Tactical Droids that are literal kids' cartoon villains
Okay but clones image is totally tarnished after Empire kicks it, right?Like I don't see any way the rebels don't tear own any monuments erected in their honor after the whole jedi purge and early enforcement of imperial law by their hands
>>65258905They're still seen as heroes by the general public in the immediate aftermath of the war and when the Empire is established.However, Tarkin immediately wanted to phase them out because volunteers and conscripts are much more cost effective. This officially happened when the the imperial Senate passed the Imperial Defense Recruitment Bill, which phased out clones in favor of stormtroopers. Then the Empire pulls an American VA system and slowly, but steadily kicks the remaining clones who are still in service to the curb even if they want to keep serving since it's the only life they know, or worse, send them on missions with low survival rates because they're deemed expendable by the new Imperial officers.In the end the only units that still use Clones are training fallacies which use Commando Clones as instructors for new stormtroopers, The Special Science Division and the 501st which is essentially Vader's personal unit.So unless new lore is added, the clones are seen as just as big of victims of the empire as everyone else.
>>65212486The Sherman and Hellcat worked great and remained cheap and easy to mass produce however.
>>65258905Would your average rebel give a shit about the jedi? A reclusive cult of maybe a few thousand amount to very little in a galaxy of over a million planets just in the empire, especially a cult which was (as far as the average joe public, and presumably also a significant number of rebels, were concerned) instrumental in orchestrating the galactic civil war and scouring countless planets. I find it hard to believe anybody, even those who hated the empire, would look back fondly on the jedi or particularly blame the clones for cleaning them up.
>>65212470Yeah but in real life it wouldn't be. A droid of that size and shape would be ideal compared to the cartoonish top heavy B2s and the immobile droidekas (that rolling shit would never work IRL nor would the shields and if they did it would have a massive power cost). They definitely make the most sense at least as far as their body plan goes.
Droidekas are fucking awesome thoughit's crazy how ILM came up with that shit when it looks nothing like previous Star Wars droids. even the B1 is very obviously a skeletal humanoidDroidekas were pure visual sex the instant they appeared on-screen
>>65259350I think we need to see the clones doing more reprehensible shit.
>>65259462>Yeah but in real life it wouldn't be.The Magic computer circuits obey their own rules. Whatever snowman magic gives them life, it's obviously harder to transfer than a computer program.
>>65260031>have you ever killed children?>no, only younglings
>>65213214B1s are only good as relief troops for the rest
>>65195224>deactivated by a regional server outage
>>65260089that was self defense thoughbeit
>>65195224robotics are more complicated and expensive than you would think. it costs a shit ton of money just to teach a technician how to reset it to home position safely.
>>65195324>Space Mexicans drive around in giant olds mobiles through the desert and just scrap them. The maintenance is done by other robots overseen by space Asians (literal bug people).i'm ready to apologize
>>65260309>cannot turn on defense systems, performing a scheduled update>please wait a moment, setting things up for you :)>*ship explodes*
>>65212050Near necro at this point, but the droid army being repurposed and it being a legitimate but containable threat wouldn't have to be mutually exclusive. A droid with visual light wavelength cameras with a fixed field of view and the snap aim of an autonomous movement seeker/human silhouette recognition algorithm could still be made of space paper when it came to taking rifle fire and objectively fucking suck compared to a real battledroid (droideca, IG series, etc.) but just because they can't see 360 degrees in FLIR thermal vision and laser rangefind targets to 2000 meters doesn't mean a wave of them shooting every humanoid (and cardboard box in case of solidsnake) at the position they've been sent to take wouldn't overwhelm a planets security forces without autonomous weapons of their own or a firepower advantage. That's functionally what things were in episode 1, but George had to make the droids funny. Replace every droid dialogue line with an ominous beep and it'd probably shift the movies tone (and 2 and 3 and the clone wars series) significantly. I think the gendi 2D clone wars series has almost no droid dialogue and instead threw waves of silent killer robots at Jedi and that worked extremely well in it's favor.
>>65260031>from my point of view the clones are evilnah miss me with this "muh subverted expectations" shit. it never ends well and the entire sequel trilogy is living proof of that.
>>65260031Is genocide not enough?
Do B1s have thermal vision by default? Feels like a good way to make up for their shortcomings would be sending them under thick smoke cover, though I can get why the movies and TV show didn't do that as it means the viewers would be unable to see anything.
>>65260581wtf are you talking about, midwit? the clones are not the good guys and they were never presented that way. they were the major foreshadowing component of the trilogy.
>>65261056Probably a filonitard, the only people dumber than non filoni prequeltards.
Reminder that this is the face of the people who say the inhibitor chips are bad and that the clones always secretly hated the Jedi.
>>65261794You can have the clones turn on the jedi without hating them
>>65261794fuck youTraviss is anti-immigrant, anti-trans, pro-army and pro-gunsshe's one of us
>>65261827>Admitting you like shit writingLOL>>65261805Yeah, with inhibitor chips. It creates another layer of tragedy since the clones and everyone else were told they were not just mindless droids like the CIS employed and that makes them better. Meanwhile Palpatine has bio chips installed to turn them into droids to carry out his master plan and kill the commanders who many had befriended over the course of the war.
>>65261838>with inhibitor chipsOr with, you know, loyalty and discipline.
>>65261794>>65261838I wasn't ready for this level of contrarianism. Also the clones didn't universally hate jedi, they were made to be perfect soldiers and good soldiers follow orders.
>>65261838https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/
>>65261845>>65261854>They were just too well trainedWhich doesn't work in reality since that assumes every clone would follow the order and Palpatine never leaves anything to chance if he can help it, also the Chips were created by the Lucas family, so it's still the canonical explanation.
>>65261878>Chips were created by the Lucas family, so it's still the canonical explanationYeah so were midichlorians and those are retarded too. The only reason people so desperately defend the chip shit is that they don't want their wholesome chungus clone wars characters to turn on the jedi.
>>65261914And it's still better than the alternative that they were just trained to follow orders blindly by a woman who hates the Jedi and has a clear history of shitting up any franchise she gets her claws into. If you're creating the perfect soldier, you're going to include fail safes.
>>65261794Retard, stuff your false binary up your ass. Gendy had the clones right, they should have been like autistic robot people, because it creates a cool theme where it's basically robots against robots. Gendy's Clones were cooler, and at the same time funnier, than your faggot ass claymation garbage that tries too hard for both, because you faggots don't understand action or comedy and your show looks like ass.Fuck Filoniberg and fuck Karen Traviss and fuck you too.
>>65261878The clones are 3 year old MK Ultra drugged up gene freaks bred and drilled to do whatever the loudspeaker in their ear tells them. They're not "men" in any practical sense.
>>65261977>they should have been like autistic robot peopleGendy's clones jobbed hard against Grevious since they fired at his feet, then stood around as he massacred them or going Russian tier by firing a rocket launcher in an enclosed space with zero regard for backblast.Speaking of Gendy, Grevious was an excellent villain, but created the massive problem of upstaging the actual ones. Which is why Lucas nerfed him to shit. Sucks, but made sense since we'd be having arguments on if Grevious or Vader would win in a fight to this day otherwise.>>65261981That's all the more reason to have a contingency plan like the inhibitor chips.
>>65262027I feel like Grevious was nerfed plenty by the fact that he doesn't have the force.
>>65262032>His introduction had him take down a group of Jedi that included 3 masters.>Nerfed
>>65262170>Jedi, who have no formal training in Generalship or Mass Warfare willfully use armed conflict as a field trip>Zero intelligence on enemy leadership because thats for pussies and sith or whatever>Manage to fuck up so bad they are cowering in the ruins of the full battleship they brought to the planet, all the clones they brought are dead, lol oops>Hunted by a Space Mongolian Warlord stuffed into the Murderfuck 9000 Four Armed Deluxe Exoskeleton>He was also trained by the best jedi duelist of the previous generation in specifically how to hunt and kill jedi for an undisclosed period of timeIgnoring the fact that the jedi were clearly not sending their best here, its also an important fact here that Gendy's characterization of Grievous is an almost perfect foil and foreshadow of Anakin becoming VaderGrievous is also a human/cyborg abomination, but he has completely embraced the alien force of his artificial body to be a more effective murderer, not only because he lacks the force, but because he has not the capacity to be redeemed and does not regret anything he does at any point, just sheer ruthlessness He does not disavow the jedi because they have (generally correct) reservations about his personal virtue , his people suffered their politics when they embargoed them for invading the planets of the species that enslaved them, but both of them end up pursuing a vendetta against the jedi by choiceAnakin growing more akin to the space warlord (in martial competency, valuing results over morality, seeing a tribal kinship in the men under his command) that he was sent to stop is a large step in his path to Vader, and Grievous (before Filoni) having a lack of force manipulation, also echoes the loss of Anakin's force sensitivity as more of him becomes machinein conclusion, I'm afraid it was kino, sir
>>65262280So he wasn't nerfed, got it.
>>65262027I really want an edit to this where the clone turns around after firing and everyone else in there is either paste or dead with one saying "watch the backblast... you ... idiBLERGH" as they die.>>65262032Grievous's nerf was the Stormtrooper effect. He routinely kills extremely capable people that are not Obi-wan, Anakin, Yoda, Padme, etc but can't seem to get an edge on important characters in many encounters.
>>65195241Commando droids and nothing else. Give them all the kit, rockets, snipers, rifles, carbines, etc and just have them fight as normal infantry with a bigger emphasis on hit and run and trying to survive. If you bring a K:D ratio of even just 3 to 1 on the clone army the republic would be swamped eventually.
>>65262280>clearly not sending their bestShaggy was a mere Padawan and Kronk was mostly known for not dying despite jobbing multiple times, but that group included Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi-Mundiand Aayla Secura survived Geonosis so she's not just all tits and lekku>>65262720>He routinely kills extremely capable people that are not literally the best Jedi in historyI'll give you Padme though, bitch should be mincemeat, but did Grievous ever actually fight her?>>65262027>Which is why Lucas nerfed himGeorge Lucas just plain had no respect for any IP that wasn't his movie, and was an indifferent film-maker at bestLucas is what happens when you put a (not very good) novelist from whom you bought the IP in charge of film production; he is utterly out of his depth and his ideas not only don't translate well to the screen, they also fail to translate into good scriptGrievous was clearly intended to be formidable, but Lucas basically fucked up the film production. what other Hollywood producer would nerf lightsaber fight choreography because it looked too awesome? only Lucasif anything, Lawrence Kasdan made Star Wars what it was(feminists are now trying their damnedest to write him out of the picture and replace him with Mrs Lucas)>>65262027>Speaking of GendyPrimal is really cucked
>>65262745>feminists are now trying their damnedest to write him out of the picture and replace him with Mrs LucasI think that's just people who heard a very well made and convincingly presented but fairly unsubstantiated and speculative at best Youtube video on the topic.
>>65262027>Gendy's clones jobbed hard against GreviousThey didn't job you retard, Gendy Grevious was actually powerful not some faggot that could be assraped by four gungans.
>>65195224I cant believe I thought these things looked worse than Stormtroopers. They look just as cool.
>>65262912>They didn't job.L-O-Lhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2GZzVU8jI&t=576
>>65262974Yeah because Grievous was an army killer who can move at the fucking speed of sound dipshit.
>>65263039>ACKTUALLY THE SCENE WAS ONLY ONE SECOND LONG, IT WAS SLOWED DOWN SO WE COULD SEE WHAT GREVIOUS DID BECAUSE HE WAS SUPER FAST.Holy cope. At least the Senate Guard got some shots off after the initial barrage aimed at Grevious's feet, but then he wasn't a clone.
>>65258847Sure, the CIS could have theoretically won on Onderon, but that would have compromised far more important theatres which is proof enough that the CIS could not defeat the Republic. Just for comparison, there were 10.000 CIS worlds, the Republic had over a Million worlds, including hive worlds like Corusant with Trillions of people.If the CIS could not spare a disproportionate amount of resources to defeat a single Padawan, a few royal guard and a bunch of rebels supplied with a few rocket launchers on a largely agrarian, sparsely popuated planet, how were they supposed to win against the million other, more developed planets? Even if they defeated the clone army, the Republic still has quintillions of bodies and their own professional militaries from each planet to throw at the Droids. Palpatine just needed the Clones for Order 66, but the war didn't require his manipulation to be won. Kalani might have been aa great strategist, but he is still a droid and Star wars repeatedly shows that Droids are inferior to sentient beings
>>65258905I know this touches /pol/ territory, but just look at real life. Reichswehr and WW1 german soldiers still have a negative connotation because of the nazis. The U.S. pop culture for the most part depicts white society of the 50'S (whether it is justified or not is another thing) as a baad thing despite it being populated by the people who won WW2. The people who hate the Empire already made up their mind. THey won't be lenient on the legacy of the very people who were the pioneers of the oppressive goverment's military apparatus, especially when the clones participated in the early oppression themselves. If anything, the Stormtroopers would get off more easily because they can excuse just having a mistake or being forced. The clones are a different species bred to be obidient lapdogs with no other purpose and especially no family or civilian friends to defend them.You also have to remember, most rebel foot soldiers are aliens and humans from the outer rings, the kind of people who saw the Republic just as the lesser evil (See Saw Gerrera or Syndulla).I assume that a post-Empire Republic would have minimised the military value of the clones and exaggerated the contribution of the non-clone militaries, kinda like how modern pop-culture places a significant emphasis on the minorities who served in WW2 rather than the typically white Southerner volunteer.
>>65263069But Kalani was ordered to hold Onderon, so he told Dooku what was necessary to do so after it was clear the insurgents had the upper hand and they had to deal with a populist uprising. To which Dooku told him to take the remaining separatist forces and leave, which he did. You explained the logic behind why Dooku would abandon the planet, but that doesn't negatively reflect on Kalani's actions since he gave his assessments, and then followed orders. Also Super Tactical Droids weren't heartless either, when Dooku ordered the retreat from Scipio, which meant abandoning their forces on the surface to die, Kraken initially protested the move before his concerns got dismissed by Dooku and he followed orders. Interesting enough, Kraken was decapitated by Skywalker earlier in the war, but the Seperatists were able to track him down and rebuild him, maybe it shows how valuable Super Tactical Droids are.
>>65262027This shit is so ass.And I couldn't quite put my finger on it, until I realized that like 70 % of the scene is fucking static, or repetitative. Especially when the clone is getting ready to fire. It's either dead static characters with beady eyes or flintstone car movement like.
>>65263104even when i was watching it for the first time, I thought Tartakovsky's pacing was too bloody slow, and it isanime or Avatar TLA is more tightly written, makes better use of time
>>65199651>Take the 1s battle of Geonosis, literally where the Republic got caught off-guard against a prepared CIS-force.Wasn't it the exact opposite? A big political meeting of CIS heads got surprise attacked by a Republican Army they didn't even knew existed.
>>65199424That was fucking stupid shut up
>>65263081>>65258905All I know is that in both old and nu canon CIS battle droids end up serving in the New Republic and get treated pretty decently, while the the clones are reduced to begging on the streets while their accelerated aging ravages them. Even the Mandalorians, who gave them their culture, largely disown them as tools of the Empire.
>>65263871to be fair to the Mandolorians, they got their culture from a small group of bounty hunters. the wider Mandolorian culture and government had jack shit to do with the clones
>>65263508multiple surprises in that battlethe CIS were surprised by 200 Jedi dropping in on themthe Jedi were surprised by a million battle droids walking off the production linesand then the CIS were surprised again by a totally unknown clone fleet and armythe only ones not surprised were Dooku and Palpatine: "ror, rmao, all according to keikaku">>65263902>to be fair to the Mandolorians, they got their culturecompletely rewritten 4 times at least
>>65263907They still had enough time to meet the clones head on in an open field.
>>65240937>focus all firepower on that super star destroyer It wasn’t just the A Wing crash, it’s just that most of the context for the space fight was cut for time constraints and also because the X Wing model they made for the shots ended up being slightly defective. The SSD was basically already going down and the engines were blown out by Rogue Squadron.
>>65200688Droid Gunship was fine. It could carry a rack of droids like a MTT
>>65195239Nah, battle droids were absolutely the right call. Sure they jobbed against clones, but those were all genetically engineered super soldiers trained from birth, and they were expensive as fuck and kind of just appeared out of nowhere. The separatists would've won in like a few months if the republic didn't randomly pull a clone army out of its ass.
>>65260483>implying an expensive and important piece of infrastructure would ever run on losedows
>>65272918>he doesn't know
who will tell him?
>>65195241Commando droids, they are costly as hell, but they are far more competent than the B1s and can do a lot more stuff Just armed them up, tell them to go behind enemy lines and just cause as much chaos as they can. They don't need food or water, they won't get tired (other than recharging, of course), and they aren't emotional; they aren't going to hesitate to carry out certain questionable objectives Other than that, maybe the Droidekas, as they seem perfect as shock troops and supporting other units with their shields, are helpful against enemy fire
>>65195241I'll add a variable, for the price of 1 droideka you can instead have 5 commandos, 20 B2s or 50 B1s
>>65263104>>65263218>Seething filonibergs literally making up reasons to hate the only good star wars media since the trilogy
>>65274948In practice, the Droidekas were more numerous than commando droids because the CIS had already secured a contract to purchase them in bulk while the commando factories were coming online.
>>65195241Since the Galactic civil war is fought on a level like the American Civil War, the Droideka's are like cavalry but with functional armor and a lower profile.
Drop a single nuke and they're wiped out
>>65280750Didn't they actually do that in an episode of the TV show? Whenever the clankers weren't intermingled with something strategic, they were open season to getting hit with orbital ordinance.
>>65209085>uncoated b1s>chromed b1s evenPvre SEXIn my head cannon: the truth of the matter was that the b1 chassis and its derivatives were of labor droids stock from the start, altered in spec and kitted out for war of course by demand, but still labor droids.It’s why they’re so flexible but so lackluster in their main role; and why that isn’t really addressed seriously until the cost becomes secondary in heavy units like the b2.It could be the inverse, but it’s doubtable, otherwise isn’t of stripping down an elite model like the Magna droid (built for combat from the ground up) and filling the in the gaps with numerous one off mono-task droids, you have the higher end being filled by more and more bespoke iterations of the b1, until you make the leap to vehicles more or less.
>>65210190Isn’t that what happened? The response is the b1s getting actual remote operation capacity in the form of self directionThe CIS at first was just a scare crow that was blustering and bullying its interests into action, but the defanged republic pulling a clone army out of its ass behind the Jedi yawping around space meant the transport “capital” ships had to be actually converted into war serviceable vessels, and their drone army refit had be watered with the blood of a gorillion Genosian vibe coders>the vibe was (oft hapless) murder
>>65283395The B1s are supposed to be a genuine, taken seriously, threat in universe, people just suck at fighting THAT badly.
>>65284858It doesn't seem any sillier than losing to machines made out of cardboard with outward specifications comparable to WWI aircraft.
>>65259453>Would your average rebel give a shit about the jedi?Given that one of their their biggest heroes was a jedi, probably
>>65275704that's insultingFiloni in my book is slightly above Star Wars furry Rule34you take that back
>>65259453>Would your average rebel give a shit about the jedi?>High Command literally begins every major offensive with a "may the Force be with you" BenedictionI dunno, would the average Catholic give a shit about the College of Cardinals?
>>65195241All 4 of these.But also especially the Dark Trooper from the first Dark Forces game.
>>65283384B-1s as employed by the Trade Federation were basically mall cop droids rather than labor droids. They were legitimately security droids pressed into service as war droids by the Trade Federation and later the CIS (and upgraded). The best way to look at the B-1s is in universe prior to the clone wars it's a "California legal" army. Aside from the "labor droid" part you're right on the money about them, the Trade Fed DID make a bunch of kit allowing them to do labor, firefighting, and all sorts of things. Same mindset applies to the Lucrehulks playing games with tonnage and gun count to say they're not battleships and stay a tenth of a cunthair in regs with the Ruusan Reforms (in universe London Naval Treaty equivalent).The B-2 was a legit purpose built war droid rather than just a "heavy unit". Their problem was Darth Sidious and Sheev Palpatine being the same person.>>65284858The threat from B-1s is sheer force of mass. Yeah you and your bros might be the best 1,000 trigger pullers in the galaxy by a wide margin, but those asshole Nemoidians can comfortably send a thousand droids for each of you. B-1s legitimately do still suck even when they're not being fucked with by a Sith Lord trying to prolong the war he runs both sides of. The thing is they come in absolutely overwhelming numbers and no matter how many you scrap if the computer says march they march. The CIS giving them operational independence was a blessing and a curse because there's no single thing to destroy to shut them down, but there's no hive mind driving them forward regardless of losses.
>>65288206the wookiees worship the force too, the jedi dont have a monopoly on it.
>>65288186That doesn't mean anything, the rebel alliance existed long before luke showed up and the weird samurai bullshit he engaged in in his personal life was largely incidental to his successes. In fact lukes biographers would probably be highly critical of the jedi shit, since they would note that influenced him to turn off his targeting computer and almost getting the whole alliance wiped out, were it not for some random smuggler showing up and fixing shit.
>>65293455okay, and?
>>65195224More shit counters less shit
>>65293438>those asshole Nemoidians can comfortably send a thousand droids for each of youThose aren't even bad odds with Clone Wars CGI droids.
>>65293474>The rebels are actually sassy snarky atheistsLet me guess your favorite is KOTOR 2
>>65275739They paid for those druids in meat.
>>65304926Imagine being sold an F-35 because the CEO of Boeing really REALLY likes new and exotic meat and you happened to have a pile of it on hand.
>>65262932they just look like robo-gungans.
>>65306732That's any country with an agricultural export economy and no defense industry if you think about it.
>>65195224>robotsThis dude over here calling droids robots. Smdh.
>>65198305something like this irl with a heavier cannon (20mm or something similar) would be a massive head ache on the battlefield.
>>65209085the first company to develop a B1 styled cheap disposable battle droid will make billions.
>>653079781st generation B1s were kind of robots by Star Wars standards, since they didn't have their own sense of awareness and were controlled by a central server.
>>65308752Give a serious look at Tesla for it. They're building up towards Geonosis Droid Factory scale production right now.
>>65309150If an Optimus variant never ends up in combat roles I will be amazed. Even if Tesla tries to stop it someone's going to figure out how to do it the second those things hit the market.
>>65309150Pic related: Tesla's factory for 10 million robots a year.>>65309160The existence of the Defense Production Act basically guarantees it will happen.
>>65260585whom'st'd've did they genocide?
>>65260316We already have humanoid robots that you can buy for less than 10k USD now
>>65313255are you retarded? genuine question.
>>65195224Obsoleted by drones. Why did so few writers imagine aerial drones?
>>65195239Quantity has a quality of its own. A human takes decades to train. Droids are cheap and mass produced.
>>65315036Some did, most didn't want to tell stories where they would've fit even if the thought had crossed their mind.A fictional setting is generally designed to provide an atmosphere and a set of mechanics to facilitate the kind of narrative the writer wants, not to be the most realistic speculative setting possible.
>>65315036Drones don't make everything ever obsolete anon. FPVs can't stand on a corner doing cop stuff. B-1s can. An FPV can't open a closed door without exploding to do it. A B-1 can. FPVs would be shit for house clearing unless you meant it literally. A skeletonized and armed warfare variant of Optimus will go room to room just fine. Drones have their roles, Nemesis will have his own.Also, scarab droids, vultures, hyenas, and HMPs are a thing in star wars. There's also smaller options like recon droids for example. I'd bet good money that Maul's little black droid in Episode I was an inspiration for more than a few small drones out there.
>>65315036Same reason why they dont have smartphone style datapads more often: the setting tech level was dictated in the 1970s to 1990s/early 2000s.
>>65195239So, he predicted indian troops?
>>65315036Aerial drones ended up being completely useless at holding ground in Kabul once the infantry supporting them skedaddled, and they struggle to actually hold ground in Ukraine even with the Russians arguably using the sorts of tactics you'd expect the aforementioned droids to.
>>65315037Droids can be defeated by the thousands with Home Alone tier traps.
>>65315036>Why did so few writers imagine aerial drones?>literally amongst the first droids you see on-screen in Phantom Menace, exactly 2 minutes and 30 seconds into the Prequels
>>65315036>one of the first three ever depicted is a floating security droid that zaps luke You should be liquidated.>>65320882>hyenas and b1s in a dimly lit hangerImages this erotic should be a bannable offense
>>65259429>The feminine urge to point out low probability events when talking about statistics
>>65321130>>65320882The visual design on Episode 1 was outstanding.
>>65323807ILM had a grand bunch of artists. Even just the concept art is amazing. Lucas himself merely reviews their concepts and gives approval on which one to proceed with, so I hesitate to give him any credit. Though I suppose it can be said that at least he has an eye for good art.
>>65315036they have to go in buildings, genius
>>65324872Can't you make them small enough to fit through doors? Allows you to blow up the staircase and partition the building.
>>65326094>An FPV can't open a closed door without exploding to do it.>FPVs would be shit for house clearing unless you meant it literally.
>>65326418If R2 can open a star wars sci-fi door then so can a flying from. Just slap an interface dongle on it
