Can someone redpill me on shotgun length? I was thinking of getting a simple pump action shotgun, and like the idea of a short barrel one. I’ve been watching reviews of it and it seems a lot of people say it’s impractical, but they don’t really go into too much detail why. Does the spread really increase with such a short barrel? It just seems like a convenient option to carry but I want /k/‘s thoughts on shotgun fundamentals and what I should be looking for.
>>65195725For most practical applications shotgun barrel length doesn't matter that much just in terms of spread, unless you cut it down ridiculously short.The barrel length mostly affects velocity and physical handiness (you don't want to do room-clearing with a 28" duck hunting barrel).Stocks matter far more in terms of the practical usability of shotguns.Shotguns without proper shoulder stocks are basically useless.They're so fucking bad and borderline impossible to use effectively that you'd be far better off just using a pistol or a revolver.
Shotguns barrel length matters for hunting, skeet, clays, and trap. Most civilian and law enforcement gunfights with shotguns or any guns occur within 10 meters (11 yards or 33 feet).
>>65195747So why is a stock so crucial to the effectiveness of a shotgun? Is recoil that hard to manage without one?
>>65195749The intent of this post was to say that for combat shooting shotgun barrel length does not matter. which is the armed services typically use shotguns with shorter barrels than you'd find on a typical sport shooting or hunting shotgun
>>65195725what controls a shotguns spread isnt barrellength its the choke.though many of the shorter options dont have chokes and are open.you had people loosing accuracy when they chopped down barrels cause they cut off the choke entirely and had a shitty uneven hacksaw cut on the end.stockless shotguns are a meme.the reason you dont want one even though it looks cool is its hard to shoot.any idiot taught proper form will be able to put at least 1 pellet of 8 pellet 00 buck on a mansized target at 50m. within the first 25 rounds.even if they never held a shotgun before.that same act of hitting at 50m with a stockless gun takes months of practice. then theres the fact they arent actually short. its still atleast 26 incheshell when you compare a shockwave to a standard 18 with a pgo its roughly 2 inchs of actual overall difference.you can argue the shockwave grips slightly more ergonomic than a pgo but both suck ass compared to an actual stock.a pgo would be -5, shockwaves +10, then a real stock is +100 to accuracy
>>65195764its not recoil its being able to hit something farther than dumpster defender range consistently.
>>65195725my dad has the 12 ga and he says its the best shotgun he's ever owned. He has an arsenal of about 50 guns so do with that what you will
>>65195764https://youtu.be/RPIO61FoAkI?si=6qYzg80mdAuzrS3M&t=64
>>65195771>>65195777I see, so if I were to get a shockwave or something similar, I’ll have to brace for the training/practice it will take to hit anything with it? >>65195779Interesting and noted, why 20g?
>>65195794you can get decent results with a shockwave/pgo but you need a fuckload of practice to get to the same starting point. braces are better than nothing but still really shit compared to a real stock. they flex and they arent the correct length for anything.just buy a normal shotgun if you actually intend to use it. if you want a shockwave for fun later on thats fine. or if you have ar or something and the shotguns just a toy its okay for your only shotgun to be a shockwave/pgo.
Just get what you think looks cool, FAGGOT! It's a shotgun, most people just blast trash.
>>65195821I second this with the following caveat: if you >>65195725get pissed at the difficulty of hitting your target, slow follow up, and overall discomfort of shooting your castrated (stockless) shotgun you cannot come back here and justifiably cry about not being warned.
Shotguns are the GOAT hunting implement but I think they're ridiculously outdated for home defense purposes. Usable? Certainly. Ideal? Not even close.I own probably north of 25 shotguns now and shoot about any kind of bird legal to. I absolutely love shotguns. I have 3 12ga presses, one 20ga, and a 28ga. I reload probably five boxes a week on average for my Sunday sporting clays. Having used a shockwave, you would be way better served by a bog standard 500 with a stock if you were intent on any practicality with it. You won't ever really learn shotgunning with a shockwave. And the novelty of blasting dirt at ten yards will wear off.For hunting, a shockwave is next to useless. Near impossible to track a moving target with. I've taken one out for clays and it was notably worse than a 1897 trench which is actually almost astounding considering how bad those are for birds.Velocity is hugely important for doing anything with a shotgun beyond shotgun house range. But shockingly it's not the velocity loss going from a 25"+ to a 14", which really isn't all that much, it's the patterning. Short shotguns pattern like shit, as in they don't hold tight. Ideally you don't want your spread opening up at short range because it makes shooting at distance a dice roll. Top it off with the shockwave being a fixed cyl barrel that can't accept chokes, and you're even more limited on uses.Now for pure fun? Yeah a shockwave kicks ass. Like a Saiga, they're just plain a blast. But don't make it your first/only shotgun because of their limitations. Snag a 500 or an 870 or really any bog standard shotgun. The 1100 is what I learned on and still probably the best dollar to performance shotgun that exists. Pump action is cool and all but semi auto is just outright better.
>>65195847People need to think about context when they discuss the "shotguns for home defense" meme. The time when people recommended shotguns for HD was decades ago. Back then it wasn't a bad idea either. Back in the 1980's and earlier semiauto rifles in intermediate calibers were unusual and expensive. A pump shotgun made sense because it was economical. Now the situation is totally different, there are tons of economical, reliable, carbines on the market in intermediate and pistol calibers which are much better HD weapons than a shotgun.I totally agree that guns like the shockwave should be treated mostly as range toys. They are fun to shoot, but they suck for hunting, clays, or combat.
>>65195893Basically. A bog basic PSA AR would shit all over a shotgun for HD. But I suppose I would take a 500 over a handgun. Personally I use an MP5.I can't think of a practical use I would ever pick a shockwave for. Door breaching I guess? But that's so incredibly niche.Shockwave is fun for just the sake of fun but if it's the only shotgun you owned, I would think it would get boring not really being able to shoot clays for a damn. Maybe that's just me who thinks busting clays is the pinnacle of gun sport, though.
>>65195725It matters if you want it to look more long range and cooler because it may have a long mag tube. There's no way a 20'' barrel vs 15'' doesn't make any difference. I might be one of those 16.5 '' vs 20 '' deals
>>65195914>There's no way a 20'' barrel vs 15'' doesn't make any difference.it doesnt its something like 5 fps per inch. it changes how the gun balances but if both have the same open choke it doesnt matter.accuracy/spread wise. pretty much every barrel under 20 will be open. there are some rarrly with chokes but its extremely uncommon.
>>65195771So, even if I installed a choke on a shorter barrel, the longer one would still be closer to the target. Gotcha. Thought I was gonna be confused for a minute there.
>>6519572526-28+ for huntingas short as possible for home defense
>>65195964>as short as possible for home defenseYou lose out on shells with shorter barrels, keep in mind.
>>65195725>but they don’t really go into too much detailThey low key kiss the ATFs boot and without the second amendment being constantly infringed upon their business is cut in half because they can no longer make videos about politics for youtube ad revenue.
>>65195893Projectile design, too.Decent JHPs are a relatively recent thing, and if you go back a ways your options for HD were>FMJs through a semi pistol (JHPs were considered unreliable and might jam)>Hollowpoints or soft wadcutters through a revolver (reliable, but significant tradeoffs and the projectiles aren't that much better than FMJ anyway)>00 buckshot through a shotgun (say what you want, it fucking werks)>intermediate calibre (depending on time period this might be an M1 carbine, a levergun, or a long ass AR15 M16-alike with shitty ammo that wouldn't work well through a short barrel)>Full size rifle (depending on time period this might be something bolt action, even)
>>65195725the one dimension where leafs aren't completely cucked
>>6519589I still like the shotgun for HD, and it’s not for lack of SBR’s, suppressors or caliber options. The difference is fewer people, even LEO/mil have the same level of training and comfort running a shotgun. >>65195725For HD 18” or less. The difference between a 14” SBS and 18” in the same model will feel much greater in terms of ergonomics and movement. I was always issued a 14” because it’s also the easiest to deploy from a vehicle. An 18” 870 or 590 will hold 6+1 rounds. My SBS’s with a +1 extension hold 5+1, so the benefit orf losing a few inches in length vs. 1 round is greater.
Put a laser on it if your a bad shot
>shockwave does nothing for me>add wood grips>call it the NIGHT STICK fuuuuuuuckkk im getting one.
>>65195893>>65195913you guys have never cleared your own house. If you did youd realize you are talking out of your ass like idiots. A shockwave is perfect for home defense because you can round corners easily without dropping your guard. try doing that with a 16' AR with a stock. you will not be able to aim your gun at all times, you will haver to lower it to go through doorways no matter how skinny you are because its a weapon length issue. You guys are stupid, dumb and retarded. Actually train.
>>65196478Just use a handgun
>>65195725>Can someone redpill me on shotgun length?it'll affect balance of the gun. for hunting where you're just maneuvering trees/brush or a blind, this is a matter of preference for most, but 26-30" is common>Does the spread really increase with such a short barrel?barrel length may affect velocity of your shot, you'll generally get faster wads with longer barrels up until a certain point. choke selection governs your spread. a full choke keeps your pattern tighter for longer shots like hunting for geese or turkeys, whereas a cylinder or improved cylinder are preferred for short-range engagements (under 30yds) or slugs>what should i be looking forfor home defense, you'd have shockwave (14") or 18" barrels to pick from unless you want to get tied up with NFA stamps to go shorter. for hunting, something 26-28" is going to be comfortable for most.
>>65195777Holy checked, but when do you ever have to hit something out side of dumpster defending range with a shotgun?Wouldn’t you just use a rifle at that point?Sport not withholding.
>>65195725>fits through and around door frames with ease (and vehicles)>'cheeking' is viable with practice and non-retarded pissing hot loads>mini-shell compatibility increases capacity significantlyIf you like it at all, you may as well have a semi-auto in that form factor. >>65195847>ridiculously outdated for home defense purposesA single shot stop of No. 4 looks better in all contexts than the equivalent amount of lead from a pistol, PCC, or SBR regardless of overpenetration mitigating ammunition choice, for the purposes of not having to mortgage yourself and freedom to litigate against hostile DA and retarded 'peer' jurors with pre-rational ethno-political-religious animus.
>>65195939Slugs have to change that you got to be talking about buckshot. I got a 20'' maverick 88 just because of that 7rnd tube looking so sexy
>>65195725>getting a shitzberg in 2026https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/61463460/#61466051
>>65196688>pre-rational ethno-political-religious animus.what?
>>65196688>and freedom to litigate against hostile DA and retarded 'peer' jurors with pre-rational ethno-political-religious animus.that's not a thing
>>65195764you cant really aim without one, it will fly back really bad and possibly wack you in the facethe only time police or military use a shotgun without a stock is when it is purely being used as a breaching gun where you dont have to aim
>>65195807>>65195847>>65196150>>65196503Thank you all for your responses, one last question. Should I go for the 14.5 or 18.5 inch? This will determine if I get one or not.
>>65195725>>65195764Stockless 12 ga shotguns suck and you'll probably knock your teeth out or something and also not hit your target and the gun may fly out of your hands so you're realistically at a net disadvantage in any defense scenario. Minishells are the only things that arent going to wreck your hands after a tube or two. Regards, proud stockless shotgun owner.>>65196478>you guys have never cleared your own house. If you did youd realize you are talking out of your ass like idiots. A shockwave is perfect for home defense because you can round corners easily without dropping your guard. try doing that with a 16' AR with a stock. you will not be able to aim your gun at all times, you will haver to lower it to go through doorways no matter how skinny you are because its a weapon length issue. You guys are stupid, dumb and retarded. Actually train.Nta but this is why I only own 7 and 10 inch barrel ARs tard
>>65195725If you don't own a shotgun go to any pawn shop drop 150-200 on a beat to shit maverick 88. Shoot a couple hundred rounds through. it if you feel like it's still too long and unwieldily trade it in for a shockwave. It will still be a good learning experience for the mossberg shotgun ergonomics and controls
>>6519742918.5 is going to be the most manageable and the least amount of paperwork. 14.5 will either need a shockwave-type setup that will be less user-friendly or an NFA paperwork trail that immediately complicates things if you move states or get involved in a defense situation
>>65195977Tube extensions past the barrel are fine.
>>65197785And ugly. Very VERY ugly! Dx
>>65196735Sexy Benellis
>>65196478Ah yes this is why every SF and SWAT team uses shockwaves or equivalent to clear homes they know are full of hostiles.>>65196688Pure fuddlore. Weapon selection doesn't matter, especially outside of a cucked state.
>>65195725Short length has its advantages in being light and handy, and more easily maneuverrable in some places.Main drawbacks is that you limit yourself on muzzle velocity and magazine capacity (on most shotguns), but you're still looking at more than adequate power at indoor distances, and a 4+1 capacity of 12-Gauge or 20-Gauge is theoretically enough to promptly annihilate 5 home invaders in very short order. Be that 00 Buck, 000 Buck, No.4 Buck, or Foster Slugs, and in either gauge. (I'd personally recommend No.4 Buck for home defense).U.S Federal Law lets you get away with the Shockwave thing without special paperwork (and formerly tax), but there's some drawbacks to that as well. Can't put a proper stock on it without doing said paperwork, and running only a pistolgrip is actually kind of ass for shotguns, which is part of why Shockwave style guns always have that birdshead grip, they just handle way better than a bare pistolgrip (the other reason is for the overall length).Not great to aim those things as is, though.HOWEVER, a pistolgrip with an arm brace doesn't make an SBS, gives you a proper stock to aim the thing from your shoulder. Even if it's slightly less good than a real stock (be it a traditional one, or a pistol grip with a separate stock on it), it's still perfectly workable, so add a sling, light, and spare shell holder, and you'd have a good defender.>>65195747Barrel length can be argued to be more important for hunting, but any combat style load out of even a small .410 Bore shotgun with a short 8.5" barrel would indeed still pack a rather respectable punch.
>>65195764Recoil is one reason, but the other is that it's just SO much easier to both aim your shotgun (be it one with any actual sights or not), as well as working that action properly.It'll make a difference even with light loads that even don't recoil very harshly.If you look at someone who's very experienced with pump-action shotguns, you'll see that they will in fact 'roll' with the recoil motion to help them rack the action quicker, and being able to aim the shotgun from the shoulder is key to that technique.>>65195771>stockless shotguns are a memeUnless you're Duke Nukem.>>65197429An 18.5" barreled one like pic related would make for a very solid general purpose gun, so you wouldn't be disappointed.
>>65197429If you’re in an NFA friendly state, get the 14”, especially now that the stamp fees are $0. I have (1) 18” and (4) 14”.
>>65198191>If you look at someone who's very experienced with pump-action shotguns, you'll see that they will in fact 'roll' with the recoil motion to help them rack the action quicker, and being able to aim the shotgun from the shoulder is key to that technique.Pistol grip shotguns are really easy to do this with as well if you do a push pull with the grip, the recoil just sucks
>>65198202Have you recently done any new stamps? if so how long did it take
I've always found 18-18.5" barrels to be plenty manageable in confined spaces and if paired with a full length magazine tube, provide acceptable shell capacity. With a middle ground choke and something like Federal flight control 00, it patterns well on out a ways.
