If they stockpiled a decent amount of drones, could they have beat the Feds?I read the Feds went full genocide near the end because there was some sort of legal 30 day siege time limit before they had to draw down.
Drones didn't exist in the 90s.Hope this helps
>>65200206>RC cars and planes didn’t exist in the 90’sNot true.
>>65200202You're brown. Iran killed more of its people than the feds ever will. Go die in a ditch turdie asshola!
>>65200202they would eventualy use a helicopter or something to blow them up, but the incendiary tank would have cooked its crew instead of lolies>>65200228>starts the war by killing 150 school lolies
>>65200202It wouldn't helped at all if anything it would of hurt them.
>>65200233Should of killed more till the whole generation was sent to mudshit paradise.
>>65200258Based. Total brownie turdie death
>>65200209They existed back in the 80s even
>>65200258>turdiethe average iranian/israeli is whiter than the average mutt.
>>65200233They were shotas, actually. Get your facts straight.
>>65200233>they would eventualy use a helicopter or something to blow them upGod bless the Philadelphia Police Department.
>>65200202No. The Feds had decided to kill thrm all and destroy all evidence as soon as they realized it would be proven in court that they fired first.
>>65200228Eat shit, bootlicker tourist scum.
>>65200296there is a chance they could jam a drone in the helicopter, weve seen it done in ukraine too.though that depends on the drone pilot skills and coordination with the others
>>65200202>If they stockpiled a decent amount of drones, could they have beat the Feds?Serious answer: it'd come down to politics, and thus is impossible to say.Backing up, as a technical/purely power matter, no that's impossible. The whole point of drones is that they're cheap consumables, like bullets, that aren't individually as effective as fancy weapons costing hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars but that you can spam with enormous flexibility and numbers and do a very solid job on the cheap, forcing your opponent into an unfavorable material exchange. But that only works if you can actually do the mass production bit. If all you have are some stockpiles, those will get consumed just like anything else and then you run out and lose. They're also easy to make, but they don't like, grow out of the ground. You need SOMETHING industrial. An entire country with a distributed manufacturing base, even a country that's much tinier than its opponent, can make this work. But a commune (or single base) is just too tiny. At that point you can just get blapped conventionally.In a highly mobile militia situation, drones would certainly be a force multiplier, though not infinite. And there you may be able to get stuff off the black market that'd substitute for your supply lines. But again that's not unlimited, and here they were a single fixed point which is the worst from a defense perspective. No ground to give.Now, they definitely could have fought harder with drones. But how that works out is down to soft factors and I don't know how it'd have gone. Maybe bloodying the federal nose more would make them pull back, or draw more attention and public outcry. But conversely maybe actually killing federal officers would promote a massive negative response. People were a lot more serious back then.
>>65200311>maybe actually killing federal officersAlso yes technically the atf counts I guess but that was also the result of their own retardedly done raid, and atf didn't have any particular great public rep back then either. I was more thinking FBI agents or even national guard or something more photogenic at the time, and at long range vs right at the compound. Drones might even have prompted fears about LE CULTIST THREATENING CIVILIANS since they have significant range.
>>65200298Cops fire first all the time. Get better cope.
>>65200206You are extra retarded. The Q-12 drone development started in 1962. This was the drone that was launched from an SR-71 at a speed of Mach 3.2.
>>65200360>I'm right>I'm copingPick one.
>>65200504Yes. In the first count, firing first is entirely normal for law enforcement deadly force encounters. You are coping that this would be any different.In the second count, the half of the door that was retained proved that both sides fired. You are coping that the other half of the door would have proved anything other than "there was even more shooting".
>>65200510You are thinking in today's climate.In 1993 the public still considered it unacceptable for LEOs to start shooting at people merely because they didn't let them in and detain them on questionable charges.Also sauce on the door.
>>65200202No. Next question.
>>65200524It may not have been normalized on the civil side, but fucking Bonnie and Clyde got shot first, and they all walked. If their testimony had been "I saw a gun come out and I started blasting", that would have been just as defensible as "they shot first".I'm not going to go to the trouble of digging up court transcripts, so here's the oldest damned thing I can find on the surface web, being a collection of news article transcripts.https://www.cesnur.org/testi/waco95.htmunder "surprised by gunfire". The Dallas Morning News archive is down for maintenance, but if it ever comes up, then it should be easy enough to verify the article is real.https://archive.dallasnews.com/I commend your originality, "catastrophic fuckup transitioning into malice" isn't one I hear much, but I don't see a reason why they would feel the need to conduct that complex of a cover-up.
>>65200589>I don't see a reason why they would feel the need to conduct that complex of a cover-up.Janet Reno.Never understimate the malice potential of a woman.
>>65200593Sensible chuckle.
>>65200589They'd been fucking up for years, getting bad press and sometimes outright loosing cases when they tried to entrap people. Koresh was a libtard faggot and wasn't racist but he was associated in their minds with separatism and white nationalism. Nobody in the cult broke ranks when a previous member who'd had issues with Koresh accused him of shit. Nobody complied with their CPS shit and nobody would make any statements about abuse even those who didn't like Koresh. Nobody would rat them out on gun charges directly so they had to get a warrant based on supposition. Basically the FBI failed to get dirt on them for a year, then fucked up the attempt to serve a warrant, then got outshot and humiliated by hippies with bolt actions who even let their glowniggers go rather than gun them down as they fled. They were totally humiliated, they felt that if they didn't make an example of these hippies who knows what actual skinheads or somebody who was actually political would do to them. They didn't even cover it up well and got raked over the coals in congress, but the media being libtards and the target of the FBI not being a designated victim group ensured that part didn't become widely known at the time. They made like 3 shitty TV movies trying to persuade the public that the hippies were ebil or something.
>>65200202yes anon, the feds would just go home and say 'you win bro'.>some sort of legal 30 day siege time limit before they had to draw down.this is correct, feds are only allowed to enforce the law for 30 days. after that you win.
>>65200330the fbi took over the operation and had koresh talking on the phone in 15 minutes apparently. then he decided to say fuck it. that could be the fbi throwing the atf under the bus. we don't know.
>>65201318maybe they decided it was a good chance to end this potential threat, imagine if they survived and were still around being retarded
The cops used a robot with a bomb strapped to it to kill that black guy who became a meme after killing some cops, remember? 2016 Dallas police shooting.If the cult used drones, they would get droned in response.
>>65200589>Bonnie and Clyde got shot first, and they all walked.they got killed on a highway in the south, what are you talking about?
>>65201340i think the idea that the feds would give up and go home is the funniest shit ever. or that you if kill enough feds and get the high score you win against the federal government or something. that's pretty hilarious when you think about it.
>>65200589>>65201344nevermind. apparently i can't read.
>>65201347That's possible in countries where the State is weak enough though, see latin american cartels.
>>65201352while this is true, the us is not that country. you may be subtlely implying the op is brown?
>>65201347I mean the Bundy ranch standoff ended up with the feds getting tired and going home instead of outlasting a bunch of boomers camping out on a bridge, and they only snatched anyone way later during a different and pre planned ambush. Feds aren't the military, their goals are entirely dependent on political will and not a greater national interest, so if they can neither force a confrontation or a surrender they are just using up budget and being unhappily "deployed" until it starts to look bad on the news.
>>65201388NTA, but that's something of the exception that proves the rule. The list is short enough that you can practically name the number of times they've broken a siege, and the number of times it's happened after shots fired is near-zero. Waco suffered greatly from lacking the tools and doctrine for dealing with schizos that pretty much every local PD has today. So consider that my response to >>65201042, as well. Because up until the fire breaks out, there's nothing really unique about it beyond the sheer size of it.
>>65200202No, when the Feds can't beat something they usually escalate to the Air National Guard, and if they aren't on the phone they go straight to the AF. Try to rebel at 3,900 RPM, motherfucker.
>>65201417Waco was done badly on purpose. Kotesh went out to shop regularly and was seen in town all the time, they could have arrested him wherever and whenever and avoided a confrontation with the entire Branch Davidians, but the point was always a show of force to go in and catch them all in the 'act' of whatever they might have been doing wrong. It was shock and awe for feds who were desperate to support the dangerous militia narrative Janet Reno was pushing which was the main thrust behind gun control efforts in the 80s and 90s. The Branch Davidians' activities and Koresh himself never mattered in the grand scheme of things, the federal government just threw a dart at the wall and landed on them as the ideal gun nut jesus freak target to make an example of. They thought it would be easy.
>>65201388>I mean the Bundy ranch standoff ended up with the feds getting tired and going homeit ended because a federal judge found marlarkey and stuck his fist up the bureau of land management's ass.
>>65201417>schizos that pretty much every local PD has today.the local sheriff actually got on well with koresh and wasn't told the atf was doing what they were doing. the issue was a federal one with the atf, not the local cop.
>>65201549This, additionally it was a passover sacrifice.
>>65201549I don't, strictly disagree. The extrapolation that he would have just played nice and told them all to come out falls into "are you ready to bet lives on that" territory, though. My point is that once they were into that standoff, the pattern of behavior is nothing special and does not evince a specific loosening in the rules of engagement, especially after Ruby Ridge DID, and they got fucking hammered for it.
>>65200202>could they have beat the Feds?They lost because they thought they could negotiate when in fact the feds decided to straight up murder all of them. If they understood that they would have had a better chance. They let FBI set up three sniper locations who kept shooting at them, their water supplies and power generators. Then the special forces flew over in helicopters and repeatedly strafed them with machine gun fire. Then the special forces moved in on the ground with a tank and set the place on fire and they rolled off APCs and gunned down the women and children trying to flee the fire. All this is well documented and the FBI had a plane circling overhead video recording everything. Also the audio tapes document the FBI negotiator telling them not to come out (before the tank rolled in to burn the place down). The army will not hesitate to gun down civilians including women and children trying to flee a burning structure.
>>65201549>they could have arrested him wherever and whenever and avoided a confrontationThe day of the shooting Koresh went for his regular morning run on the street and when he came back he saw the AFT and they saw him and said nothing to Koresh, they waited form him to go back to the building. Then the feds came in in trailers and pile out with their guns and the dogs started barking and the feds opened fire on the dogs and Koresh opened th front door and the feds shot him. That is when the Dividians grab their guns, not before. The feds were just blasting away and the davdians were defending themselves and feds were shooting each other by mistake. The feds asked for a cease fire and the Davidians stopped and let the fed gather their dead and wounded and retreat.
>>65201615You forgot the part where the feds filled the building with CS gas(flammable) before shooting incendiary rounds into the house.
>>65200277Fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you reeeeeeeeeeeee
>>65201624>Anonymous 06/02/26(Tue)00:33:34No.652016Would have been more amusing if the Davidians were illegal gun runners with AP4 and shot all the glowniggers in the back after saying they'd let them go. The 90s really was a different time, these days it seems like the feds walk around on tip toes in case somebody is packing tungsten cores for their .243rem and is itching to ventilate some Langley-based jew-lovers.Tungsten for .243 is fucking awesome by the way punched through a full inch of steel like shit through a goose.
>>65201667Literally shake and baked them, Jesus lmao. I can’t think of a worse way to die
Shooting insane cultists is s good use of guns IMO
>>65201417This is some fucking clown-shoes shit right here, notice how they depict the glownogs breaking through a fucking picket fence while spraying an extinguisher as if to say "we didn't mean to burn down the place and kill those chillins via smoke inhalation, honest".https://youtu.be/1wyV01wJiTI?t=4821
>>65201759I mean they weren’t really insane. Everyone that met them liked them well enough and they were pretty well liked by their community
>>65201750>>65201667Crashed a tank with a robot arm to dispense the CS gas into the building then fired smoke canisters at the cloud of gas because clearly they needed more obscuring smoke to cover them when you couldn't see shit through the CS. It's pretty obvious that they glownigs were butthurt about being made fools of earlier and deliberately tried to fuck shit up as much as possible.
>>65200202no, feds would have hit them with artillery or air strikes. a JDAM if they were worried about losing.
>>65201759It's too bad the Davidians didn't kill more of the insane cultists.
>>65201775Ya seethe? KWAB
>>65201762>>65201759They were a bunch of hippy pussies, in fact the only recording of Koresh saying crazy shit is in fact just him mocking some other local asshole he had a land dispute with, they just cut out all the context before airing it on TV. He's just the usual cult leader, a cult being any closed religious body, he wasn't even new at it his family had run the cult for fifty years with no real complaints by anybody.They weren't breaking any laws so the FBI's only means to get a warrant was to credence the claims of abuse by an estranged cult member residing in California. I really do wish they had raided the Aryan Nation instead, not because I dislike the Aryan Nation but because they had some actual crazy excons around who would have slaughtered the feds and I'd get to laugh at their deaths on camera whenever I like. Instead a jew with government connections sued them for six gorillian dollars because they transferred funds in a way the government didn't like but which wasn't directly forbidden by existing statutes.
>>65201761>3-month production made while events are still ongoing is schlocky exploitationYes, and?
>>65201801Nigger it was made with the direct cooperation of several faggots who oversaw the operation and the video distributor was owned by a relative(jew) of one of the head organizers. This is just some incestuous CYOA bullshit why are you covering for it? You faggots just cede the narrative to your political opposition and seem to be more mad at those who point it out rather than the bullshit itself.
ATF was incompetent, and HRT was full of warmongers. Only the FBI's negotiating team was working properly.
>>65200209>>65200495>durrr semanticsin a modern sense drone is shorthand for "fpv drone"
>>65201811Sauce, please. Near as I can tell, the owner of WIN at the time was its founder Larry Gershman, and a cursory JFGI is failing to show the last name in relation to Waco.>why are you covering for it?Because the only thing worse than the enemy is the retard on your team.
>>65200206>>65200209Before she became a movie star, Marilyn Monroe made a living working in a factory assembling drones for the US air force.There also was a secret US kamikaze drone program during WW2, which made it all the way to combat deployment.What didn't exist were cheap and reliable drones. RC cars and planes were an expensive hobby and radio control was absolutely rank.
>>65200209High quality optics that make civy drones useful were not available in the 90s. Yes this is a major blocker on their effectiveness as would the lack of HE
>>65200202If they had committed to an offensive stance the fed casualties would have been ten times higher, they however fought an exclusively defensive battle, even letting pinned down feds go at one point thinking that feds had some kind of honor or humanity.
>>65201347>>65201355That's literally how the united states came into being.
If they magically pulled out fpvs with proper explosives on them in the 90s theyd likely just get BTFO by the air national guard as the feds panic.
>>65202087With massive outside aid from a rival great power, though.
>>65201877FPV DRONES R TARDYOU THINK YOU'RE CUTE YOU THINK YOU'RE SMARTSTUPID FUCKING ANIME
The real question is how many bricks the feds would have shat if the militias they were so scared of actually existed and showed up to protest outside their perimeter throughout the whole siege. Guns in front and guns behind them, they probably would have sperged out hard and started a firefight with them too.
>ITT Defending a pedo cultAt least MAGA is consistent.
>>65202683>Defending a pedo cultWhos defending the feds here?
>>65200202With 90s drone tech (RC planes with 2-stoke engines) they could have done a lot of damage with a surprise attack but I would expect a lot to be shot down in followup attacks once the cops expected them.With modern drone tech and counter drone the cops could borrow from the military it would come down to how prepared the Davinians were. A truck microwave would fuck drones within it's cone but would be easily killed by a flanking drone. Then the main advantage is unpredictable 3d flight making the drones way harder to shoot down and them being so much cheaper you can afford hundreds instead of dozens for the same outlay.
>>65202683>>65202691Guy both sides can be shit, not everything needs you to take sides.The Davidians were a pedo cult and the feds "rescued" the kids by burning them to death.
>>65202721The davidians set the fire themselves, and stayed inside to burn to death because they were fanatics. These are just facts.
>>65202741Another fact is David Koresh left the compound several times a week and went into town, the feds could have picked him up there and avoiding the seige completely but they wanted a fight and to make an example.
>>65200202As if they didn't already suffer the full wieght of the empire? They would have been Death Starred even harder.
>>65202741Yet more gov.gov LIES.>>65202749>yeah, so let's just start shit in Ruby Ridge o prove our point
>>65202087>That's literally how the united states came into being.1. The British Empire was a foreign power, with the majority of its troops and forces for the war being sent in. Yes it had some local sympathizers, but it still had to deal with a lot of the disadvantages in terms of logistics, local knowledge and so on that come with that. It was up against a popular domestic revolution that it had fucked up the politics on significantly. A civil war is a lot messier, as we ourselves proved.2. The 1700-1800 is not the 2000-2100. There has been a radical change in the difference in power of an individual vs an organization, in every single sphere. The entire dynamics of humanity worldwide have shifted, in terms of, again, basically fucking everything. Where people work, how people get fed, how people can feed themselves vs being dependent on an industrial supply chain, geopolitics, communication, the works. It was also a unique moment in time unto itself in terms of the global situation and how that pulled on Britain.3. It was still a near-run thing. I'm sure there are endless alternative universes where it's remembered as Washington's Rebellion or something and was successfully put down. This is easily forgotten, but we have a lot more revolution and insurgent efforts to look at through history vs the American Revolution and part of what makes ours memorable is precisely that it worked out so well, when typically they don't. And not just in the conduct of the war, but the aftermath in maintaining it. And we effectively had to fight a second one decades later to finally forever close the door on Britain at least partly denying our independence.
>>65202683>Defending the Clinton administration Survivors and people who left early said only Koresh was banging 14 year olds. The rest of the adults were just braindead cultists like you and >>65202741.>inb4 maga shill-inb4 ziggerNope>>65202721ThisIt's worrying how nobody understands nuance anymore.
>>65200228>>65200275>brown >turdieYour antisemitism will not be tolerated here.
>>65201549>It was shock and awe for feds who were desperate to support the dangerous militia narrative Janet Reno was pushing which was the main thrust behind gun control efforts in the 80s and 90salso to fix the pr for the ATF after Ruby Ridge, iirc.
>>65202864>The British Empire was a foreign poweranon, that's fucking retarded. Americans weren't some rnadom indian tribe that inhabitated the eastern american coast. They were British subjects settling on land that was owned by the British Empire. The entire revolution started because their rights as British citizens to representation in Parliament were not being respected by the government.Sorry to nitpick like that but that phrase activated my autism like nothing else.
