Post gear, discuss gear.For You editionOld: >>65184974
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, Protech 2230s sold out yet again. Hesco got another NIJ suspension. A2 made an effortpost, and hypervelocity super ARPs are coming soon.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.166CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept EmperorElite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)
Is a surplus BAE ACH for $250 worthwhile?
>body armor faggot made ANOTHER thread again
>>65202128First for img.
>>65202280>Hesco armor plates whenever they see black tips.
>>65202106>Why the fuck do things like this never pop up for me, it’s even in XL, when will I be so luckyContinue to wait on Botach Surplus, Hudsongunner, and other sites. You're gonna have to check daily if you want the best deals.>I literally cannot find the perfect helmetThere is no free lunch with helmets just like there's no free lunch with plates. If you want something, you're going to have to sacrifice something else.>>65201538>Sounds like its out of his hands and completely up to the manufacturerThat's true. Basically the vendors are stuck with whatever the manufacturers can give them purely because of how the market works and because civilian sales are last-in-line. Military and law enforcement get priority.>so I just requested to exchange my SAPI L for an M.My concern with this is that the SAPI L you have checks out weight wise, which means they're all probably like this and the SAPI M is also undersized. Maybe, maybe not, depends on the "variance" lottery.>>65201552>but it appears that's going to be really damn tough with plates that are 1.2 inches thickThat's not even remotely concealable if you follow SOCOM guidelines. Rough rules of thumb from their plates:>Overt: 0.8" and above>Less-than-overt: 0.5-0.65">Covert: 0.45" and below>That's what I get for being a noob at all of this, but I'm sure I'll be happy with the plates anyway.You'll want more than one pair of plates. Build up an overt high-threat getup for the 2230s (maybe look at some stuff from Beez) with sides, IIIA BALCS soft, the whole shebang, and then the JPC 2.0 gets some thinner, lighter plates. Change carriers based on the situation.>Are there any other considerations I should be looking at given my circumstances?For your "street" plates I'd look at the Protech 2120-5s from Hudson. They're 6x M80 / 6x M855A1 and about 5.8lb / 0.95". They cover all the basics. If you really want to run concealable, look at the Hesco T212 at 0.54" and 4.7lb. M855A1 only. No .308.
>>65202285>obsessedAcceptable.
>>65202280
Relatively new stuff from "Ultra Defense Corp" - kinetically lubricated armor piercing .308 and a .338 with good performance claims, tungsten core.The .338 outperforms .50 BMG M8 API versus 1" AR400 and defeats 1/2" AR500 from at least 700 meters out, which gives it good odds against a lot of ceramic Level IVs, especially if they're B4C or Alumina-glass construction.Notably they've got no claims for the .308, which tells me it isn't that revolutionary and probably isn't a lot better than current m1158 ADVAP or stuff like Nammo AP11LR. Just goes to show you can't stop everything, even if you've got 2230s or 8002s or Colossi.I'm under the impression .338NM KLAP is below XM1224.
>>65202383Any reason to go with the JPC instead of the SPC other than cost?
>>65202521Consensus is the SPC is the better overall carrier, especially if you're rolling heavier equipment. With a pair of 2230s for example you're at fifteen pounds. Add 6x6 sides and you're at just over nineteen. 6x8s put you over 20lb and that's with just armor.Because most of the armor industry just slaps one of three commercial ceramics together with one of three backer materials in varying thicknesses and there's no real innovation, armor weight will trend up in the next few years as hypervelocity (HICAR, PEAK, SIG HYP, etc) ammo is commercialized. Something to consider.
>>65202490>kinetically lubricatedThey do just lube the tip, r.right?
>>65202830They're going in deep and they're going in hard. Aluminum tips. Only way to pierce the guards' Taobao NIJ-V+++ at Epstein Island 2.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7P2BE0TWeU>they gonna give you the klap
>>65202521SPC a more minimal carrier and exposes a lot more grab points and snagpoints. The JPC is a better carrier if you see yourself banging out a lot of low crawls and shit like that. The SPC laminate frays sometimes and at that point its basically cooked, and while yeah the hypalon fraying will do the same thing to the JPC straps the majority of the JPC isnt made out of hypalon.The JPC hypalon straps also have more "give" than the laminate used on the SPC. This means the JPC feels a little bit less constrictive if youre sprinting or doing other really intense movements. But the hypalon eventually will wear out and the JPC will sag, but thats an eventuality issue. The SPC is a fine carrier but a lot of people end up trying to press it into other roles and its not truly THE carrier of all carriers.All of this is why the R series exists
>>652023832230 Noobanon here. If going overt then I've been eying the 6094. Seems to be a solid general purpose option. Tacswap has this fella here. Changing out a cummerbund isn't a big deal, right?https://tacswap.com/post/6a00201e64161de998598c59
>>652028956094 sucks6094 was a good time when people were being issued like interceptor vests and other huge armor carriers. 6094 in current year is ??????Go buy a JPC in the correct size instead.
>>65202908>6094 in current year is ??????8120. Come on, man! Are you on the dope? I can do that in my head.
>>652028956094 is fine but a little long in the tooth. The big choice is whether you want a pure platecarrier or a BALCS / CIRAS getup with soft armor underneath so you have both strong IV+ on the vitals and IIIA covering a lot more area.Look at stuff from Beez if you want BALCS stuff. The 2230s are standalone and do not need soft armor, but running IIIA under them will only enhance performance at the expense of weight and even greater thickness / bulk.
>>65202936I'm already getting worried about how thick this all is, so I'm considering just going for soft armor panels for the additional coverage rather than having additional protection behind the 2230 as well. As robust as that plate is, I think it can go without the additional backing for the sake of trimming bulk.
>>65202978*soft armor side panels
>>65202978Good news is that decent 6x8 soft armor is cheap as hell man. $50 a pair.https://www.ebay.com/itm/389102963674?I wouldn't be too worried about the 2230 running out of headroom unless you wind up conditioning the hell out of them through rough handling, dives, etc, or it's a REALLY bad day and actually modern tungsten AP is coming out - in which case you're fucked because the strongest commercially available, tested plates are only rated up to 7.62x51mm or .300wm Swiss P AP, both of which originate from the 1990s.But the good news is the 2230s handle all common and relatively uncommon CONUS threats fine and unlike the 4403 aren't at risk from future hypervelocity ammo, since they are rated for M2AP at 600ft/s+ over NIJ requirements. It's a neat coincidence given that they're generally about 10 years old.
>>65202978Also, if you want to shore up drop protection, run cut up yoga mat or a trauma pad IN FRONT of the plate. The latter is hilariously official RMA policy for their new, strict no-drop 1165. The 2230s do have a frontal foam layer, but NIJ is not a hard drop test.
This is the new FBI, USMS, and DEA carrier. Say something nice about it. Pls no bully over bulk, airmesh, funny dangling plastic knobs.
>>65203115>Say something nice about it.My tax dollars at work!
>>65203115I can see it now. It's gonna be filled with... Hesco SC3812B aka FXR-Bravo aka a pair of plates over $4k that don't stop BZ API.
>>65203115>>65203132You can buy it for... $2,600. https://predictiveballistics.com/c2r-usa-vault-armor-carrier-system/
>>65203177>>65203115My take:Midnight navy blue is a cool colorIt looks like they're actually using real tubes, and not fucking ROC bucklesLooks incredibly bulky and heavy thoughHow did they get to $2600 for this? Maybe that includes the soft armor? It has got to.
>>65203241>How did they get to $2600 for this? Maybe that includes the soft armor? It has got to.I'm sorry...
>>65203264$2600 + DLC and microtransactions
>>65203277the carrier is more than a pair of velsys PBZSAs...
>>65203283D-did they say SPARTAN Cut? I'm so sold. MOLON LABE
>>65203301CUE THE MUSIC:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQs1cASjUD0
>>65203074If those soft panels are easy enough to mount on a JPC then that'll likely be the carrier I go with. I've also been eyeing the Mayflower APC as its price is comparable, but I am liking how much more "breathable" the JPC looks.
>>65203301You need CREDENTIALS to purchase this face mask! We're just level 1 crook civilians. You need to be level 35 police sergeant to unlock. If you get promoted to level 50 lieutenant then you unlock the tactical ladder from Protech.
>>65203074Are those panels legit. I've been wanting to add soft side armor on my larp/tornado carrier without having to invest in a new cummerbund. Those inserts look like they would work well with a knockoff crye side soft armor panel.
>>65203515They're from an old surplus lot. Dude has sold over 50 sets. SHOULD be fine. I have a pair I made into ghetto duct tape forearm guards.
>>65203241>How did they get to $2600 for this?The Berry Amendment (10 U.S.C. \(\S 4862\))
>>65203283Some Holy Bat Shit right here, Robin!
>>65203313>CREDENTIALSI swear to God I will duck ape a crayon to my gog and jerk a credential right off!
Would running some 3a soft armor under a Hesco 4403 or a Highcom 4s17M help mitigate some of their issues? Or is it unnecessary weight?
>>65203778Yep.>>65203782Stops real fuckin NATO to the face man, one time, but only at ambient so god help you if it's hot out or it got wet. Also no 7.62x39 MSC rating. It's like those 30 year old Italian plates.>>65203787Yeah it's the way of the armor industry. LE has access to better shit. Example, they had the Protech 2230 in 2014. They had the Protech 2240 in 2024 but nobody knows how much better that one is. Ot did however replace the 2230. It's some kind of nebulous super plate like the Ceradyne 2572575.>>65203800IIIA soft acts as extra backer. It would partially address the low M2AP v50 on the 4403 and shore up the same for the 4S17M. However, it's not weight efficient and you'd be better served by switching to plates with an aramid or PE backer over antiquated fiberglass like those two.In other words, the definitive budget contingency Level IV is probably now police surplus 2230 with its aramid backer and full Level III + IV performance. the 4403 explicitly will fail the Level III test which is an issue for a nearly 8lb plate.Fiberglass sucks. It's 1960s armor tech.
>>65203860>LE has access to better shitI'm just gonna do some ride-alongs, become a volunteer deptuty and steal some letterhead from the Sheriff's admin. I may fuck her, too. We'll just see if that gets me shot in the face?
>>65203870Apex? Is that you?Anyways, the 2240s should be running out on the warranty in the next few years. We're in for interesting options by 2028. Protech 2240s copsurp, GEN-IV ESAPI, GEN-IV XSAPI, the Adept Emperor, GEN-II LSAPI, GEN-6 and 6B TSA Swimmers and TSA/LTOs, and the Hesco RF3-400 which is literally just the 4403.
>>65203115What the fuck? I used to play airsoft with some guys who did UKSF impressions, and that's the only reason I know C2R exists, and even then, I dont think theyre a big name even within the UK. How the fuck did they get a major fed contract?
>>65203924How the fuck did SIG simultaneously win like six major weapons contracts despite sucking dick at all of them?
>DEAL ALERTBotach Surplus has 48 Ceradyne BA3A helmets in stock for $75 a pop.https://surplus.botach.com/3m-ceradyne-ba3a-ballistic-helmet-pasgt-cut-nij-level-iiia-police-trade/
>>65203115I wonder what issue they had with their Tyr carriers, they have only had those for a few years.
>>65203927Epstein?
>>65203936Are there any good helmet covers for those things?
>>65203936Interesting. Any word on what size these are? Or can the harness be adjusted to a "one size fits all" sort of thing?
>>65203074I know that plates really don't degrade, but is that also true of soft armor? I don't know what would fail, but I figure kevlar shouldn't be treated the same way as ceramic.
>>65203999>>65204058One size fits most, full cut PASGT style.
>>65204065>I know that plates really don't degradeThis is a "truth is somewhere in the middle" type situation, same as ceramics being drop resistant. Some plates do suffer from adhesive failure between ceramic, crack arrestor, and backer layers, along with backer degradation. For example, just about all Ceradyne 92547s suffer from a major delam issue. Same for the Ceradyne 96448s and those old TAP Gammas. That's why you tap test plates. Backer failure is when PE, aramid, etc is stored improperly - lots of heat over time or excessive moisture. Some blends are more suspectible than others. Stick with 0101.06 and .07 plates and backer degradation is way less of an issue. About twenty five years ago there were Zylon backed plates which put up some crazy performance numbers, but had degradation literally measurable in weeks.>but is that also true of soft armor?Same rules as above for backer degradation. This is where the armor being on the CPL really does count, because NIJ does evaluate armor under conditioning requirements for .06 and .07, but did not for 0101.04 and before so shitty Zylon armor got certified.
> https://soldiersystems.net/2026/06/03/10th-mountain-divisions-c%e2%80%91uas-academy-drives-the-armys-next-era-of-drone-defense/> FORT DRUM, N.Y. — As unmanned aircraft systems reshape modern warfare, the 10th Mountain Division is positioning itself at the forefront of the Army’s effort to train Soldiers to fight, survive and adapt on a drone?saturated battlefield.> "Dronebuster"OMG they're literally stuck in 2021.
