>Sig milspec cataloghttps://plusultratr.com/wp-content/uploads/catalogos/2026%20DIGITAL_SPREAD_version.pdftandem tungsten core high psi AP plate breakers are here!
>>65205091>2860 fps @ 200 meters from a 10.5" barrelThat is honestly impressive.
>>65205141What's the barrel life?
>>65205146That's antisemitic
And de facto Level V plates are also here, for $314 a plate.https://www.gilliamarms.com/products/model-8002-max-heavy-tungsten-rf3-silicon-carbide-ceramic-armor-plate?
>>65205091lol. You're not penetrating a Level IV plate with a steel-core 5.56mm round. Good Level IV plates like the Archon and Gilliam's 8002 will shrug off tungsten-core AP4.Maybe they're testing against Hescos.
>>65205146It's an AR. Who cares? It's a 20 minute swap.
>>65205265Plus rezeroing.
>>65205260Neetmaster it's long-rod tungsten core ya shit.
>>65205288It literally says "jacketed steel core" in OP, though? I even checked the PDF and there's nothing there on tungsten cored ammo at all.
>>65205091WTF is hydracore and why are they going back to duplex?
>>65205295It's listing several different ammo types as seen with the other calibers. There's a jacketed steel core projectile and then Hydracore, which is expressly armor piercing. Besides the fact a 97gr steel core bullet would be extremely long and probably too long for a normal magazine / chamber, the only way you're popping Level IV (as advertised) with a 5.56 is tungsten.Even shitty ass Level IVs like the Highcom 4SAS4 can stop older 5.56 tungsten APs like M995 / AP4. You need to raise sectional density and that's where this 97gr turbo AP has a lot of merit. The latest ESAPIs are only rated up to M995 @ 3,400ft/s. This round at 3,200ft/s from a 16" as advertised elsewhere is going to destroy that.
>>65205091>97 fucking grainsI thought 1:7 starts to have stabilization problems after 90gr. Are they gonna introduce a new twist rate? If so why keep 62gr around? If not what sorcery is this?
>>65205311Hydracore is a SIG-developed improvement on tungsten penetrator technology. It's not duplex. Looks like it has a steel or lead portion in front of the tungsten core, maybe to "warm up" a ceramic strike face prior to the actual penetrator's arrival. The more you damage the strike face, the easier time the actual core will have. Once it gets through the strike face and into the backer relatively unharmed, GG.
>>65205311The first part breaks up the ceramic and the second part punches through the crater.
>>65205324Lead or steel portion up front ahead of the actual tungsten penetrator stabilizes the bullet, I would assume? 5.56 has been experimented with as heavy as 150gr using blended metal tungsten-tin from PRL in the mid-00s. Subsonic, absolutely fantastic terminal ballistics, but frangible and basically useless versus barriers and armor.Black Hills also developed a 100gr 5.56 in the early 00s, but that was lead and due to the length of the projectile needed a 1:6 barrel. Tungsten is more dense than lead and thus this SIG AP doesn't have that issue, necessarily.
>>65205326>>65205330Interesting. If anyone can find a drop chart for that form factor I'd love to see it.I find it odd they use G1 for one and G7 for the other.
>>65205288>>65205295They could mean "steel filler." These rounds are supposed to be 100% lead free. Not sure if they use green primers.
>>65205335It's SIG, they'll pull a trick or two here.>>65205343I agree the frontal section is probably steel. This looks to be very disruptive for emerging Chinese plates given that they're putting a lot of stock into Boron Carbide which is EXTREMELY weak to tungsten penetrators. That's good.Also, by my quick math a 7.62x51mm version of this 97gr AP would be 230gr, which would be absolutely brutal to any known plate below the ridiculously heavy .50 caliber fat fuckers from Adept and EDUN.
>>65205091first official source on 6.8x51 military ammo performancenicehttps://www.sigsauer.com/media/sigsauer/resources/FULL_DEFENSE_CAT_26_PRINT.pdf
>>65205644I noticed the tungsten core XM1184 is absent, haha... hahaha... sounds like they want to rework it with the Hydracore and/or they don't want to disclose the projectile weight and velocity because that would allow people to back-math its performance.Should be about 210gr if they follow the 5.56 turbo Level IV-killer's construction. Velocity will be relatively low but that doesn't matter as much for ceramics (which the Chinese now predominately use) provided there's a big enough penetrator and enough kinetic energy to get it through.
>>65205141Imagine HYP 5.56 also topped with VLD ammo. 1019 m/s from 10'' barrel with VDL bullet? You will completely overmatch 7.62 NATO from baby carbine.But we stuck with STANAG magazine, AR-15 lower receiver compatibility, short and stubby 5.56 bullets and M7
>>65205644And yeah, if it's genuinely 210gr 6.8mm it'll actually be capable of killing XSAPIs and shit with ease, which the Chinese have the capability to produce but do not generally issue. Very exciting.Bad news is that the US isn't willing to issue tungsten small arms ammunition on a widespread scale. It's too costly and the tungsten reserve is better spent on other stuff. China has much larger tungsten reserves but the same rule applies. Tungsten is a vital industrial material and is better spent on things other than fancy AP ammo so you can get into a pissing match with other dudes running increasingly better plates that you then have to redesign your AP ammo against. It's a cycle. Better to spend it on preformed fragmentation artillery, grenades, bombs, drone bombs, so you can bypass the armor entirely and deliver greater effects.Where tungsten AP would be useful is if you have dudes doing CQB work where you can't use drones due to friendly fire concerns and collateral risks. That's where this 97gr SIG stuff comes in. Still clears the enemy plates and has the specs to do it out of a shorter barrel - easier to run indoors with.
>>65205662>>65205662>sounds like they want to rework it with the Hydracore and/or they don't want to disclose the projectile weight and velocity because that would allow people to back-math its performance.Its just remains classified i guess.
>>65205685The Chinese knew something a few months ago. On the left of pic related are new tungsten long-core 5.8x42 and 6.8x50mm penetrators. They are designed to "proxy" for advanced 5.56 and 6.8mm APs so the Chinese can test their latest plates against our latest APs. With that 5.8mm, it sounds like someone at SIG talked and spilled the beans on that 97gr AP.
Also here's XM1184. I suspect this is now outdated and they're replacing it with a long-core version. If you're deliberately developing an expensive platekiller, might as well go all out.
>>65205668Give it a good EPR and a beefed up version of the 97gr SIG AP so it has some at-range authority versus Chinese IVs and I'm sold.
>>65205318Exactly what I thought would happen ended up happening. Introducing the hybrid cases to 6.5 Creedmoor would render the 6.8x51mm completely pointless. If you don't own a rifle in either cartridge then youhave options, but anyone who owns a 6.5 Creedmoor rifle or even a .308 rifle has no need to ever look at 6.8x51mm (at least until 1-3 decades pass and the 6.8 ammo becomes as common as the other two are).
>>65206670Precisely. You'll notice that the 6.8mm AP (XM1184) is absent from the 6.8mm list. What this means is that, since there's the same omission, the exact same AP technology exists for 6.5mm and 7.62x51mm.SIG is being smart and is hedging their bets. If 6.8mm flops and the M7 is aborted, they've got the new 5.56, 6.5, etc with SOCOM. SOCOM doesn't seem to want the M7 anyway, they want HICAR which is turbo-5.56, so if the M7 isn't aborted, SIG can still gun for that one and they've got a VERY attractive 5.56 AP to entice the generals scared as shit of Chinese body armor even though that's a non-fucking-issue if you have explosives. Are Russians running around like Iron Man in Ukraine just because they (sometimes) have plates good for 5-10 hits of 7.62x54 B-32 API, or are they getting blown to shit because plates only cover a fraction of your body?>but anyone who owns a 6.5 Creedmoor rifle or even a .308 rifle has no need to ever look at 6.8x51mmWhen explosives are less available, such as CONUS, this kind of business becomes more persuasive. It's going to get... very easy to defeat Level III+ / RF2 and RF3 / IV type plates in the next few years. My bet is there's going to be a scare because some jackfuck is gonna roll a HICAR-beefed up AR with turbo ammo into a shooting spree and there's going to be a COP KILLER BULLETS, PART MORE scare like there was in the 1980s, except it's going to be high pressure M855 which will then result in all M855 getting the sporting use exemption revoked and Obama finally winning at getting green tip BANNED. I hope I'm wrong but I do see that potentially happening.
>nu-sigcringe
