Does anyone have experience with these rounds and/or the guns that shoot them?
no
>>65207933I've shot a VSS with original ammo on several occasions.They were commercially available, but rare, in my country until monke launched his great banan quest in Ukraine.Pretty quiet, but not as quiet as you'd think.Low power and low recoil.Terrible accuracy,10-12 MOA at best. That's generally to be expected with integrally suppressed guns.Poor reliability, even under ideal conditions.Trigger is somehow worse than the decent trigger of a regular AK.Very few redeeming features. There are plenty of reasons why these things were never popular, even where they were/are pretty easily available.
>>65207969That sounds pretty bad. Do you happen to know anything about the Vikhr?
>>65207933They have been around a bit in places. There's even been some 9x39mm ammo exported to the U.S, I think.>>65207969>Pretty quiet, but not as quiet as you'd think.That's actually what I expect from earlier reading, it's far from the most efficient package, just a functional one at a low cost.>Low power and low recoil.That low power? Shouldn't it be roughly along the lines of subsonic .300BLK or .350LGN? Ergo slow, but quite heavy projectiles.>Terrible accuracy,10-12 MOA at best.THAT bad? Was that with surplus ammo? Does there exist any commercial 9x39mm match ammo anywhere?>That's generally to be expected with integrally suppressed guns.I'm not entirely sure on that part.
>>65207959FPBP97% of the posters here are nogunz neverserveds, and most of the Ruskies that would’ve used this one either died in the meat grinder or aren’t posting here. Anyone in the thread claiming to have experience will be lying to you/LARPing.To my knowledge in the most modern loadings it’s similar performance/ballistics to .300 AAC Blackout but worse.
>>65207992Slaps in day z desU
>>65208039The Ukrainians who picked them off corpses in the early days when the Russians sent literal police units said they were mediocre to regular rifles for open combat since the drop was pretty bad at 300 meters. I'm not surprised because the guns were made for police to kill people without overpenetrating walls and knowing the Russians if they didn't do a proprietary round and gun special low penetration 5.45 or subsonsic frangible 7.62 would just get sold off and replaced with some rusty surplus.
>>65208019Wolf 9x39mm was available in the US for a short time, yes. I fired a suppressed AR chambered in it, but didn't think it was exceptionally special.
>>65208079Please don't start this.
>>65207933I got to handle a kitbashed VSS made out of a parts kit that an FFL07 SOT got somewhere. It's hard to say if it is entirely a result of being a kit build but this thing was remarkably rickety and shitty.
>>65208285Other side. Grip/stock assembly was incredibly loose.
>>65208285Cut your nails
So they are really bad huh? STALKER lied to me.
>>65208285All the kits in the US came from blank firing non-guns. Retards were paying thousands of dollars for cut up $200 display pieces.
>>65207933I have original VSS for collectors reasons and because i like stalker games, but its absolute shit of a weapon. Ammo is glorified pistol round. Its inaccurate at ranges higher than 200m, and tremendously expensive for civilian market (around 12usd per round in local currency), have zero positives.Its fun thing to have, but otherwise its shit gun like most of things from russia.
>>65208691One of the anomalous properties of the Zone, STALKER, is that it makes Soviet era weaponry accurate like laser. This is not coincidence, as the noosphere contains the knowledge of all weapon designers, this is also why NATO weaponry inexplicably have scopes from the future. I work for Ecologists, have for 26 years, I have not trained with firearms all my life yet can hit can at 200m with pistol I found in a ditch. It is wondrous here and you should write local representative to fund Ecologists' mission further!
>effectively a honey badger>UGH WTF WHY ISN'T IT SUB-MOA???its a swat rifle for close range snoipin
>>65208893Wasn't actually more intended for sentry removal by Spetznatz units, hence the big boolit with AP properties that is still gonna ruin someone's day even if they're wearing an early helmet and kevlar vest?
>>65208019>That's actually what I expect from earlier reading, it's far from the most efficient package, just a functional one at a low cost.It's old, so that's one reason. The baffle stack is not much different than them AK silencers, except it's folded sheetmetal with marginally more complex geometry and no wipes.>That low power? Shouldn't it be roughly along the lines of subsonic .300BLK or .350LGN? Ergo slow, but quite heavy projectiles.The 278gr FMJ load is roughly equivalent to .45 Super 255gr loads. >Does there exist any commercial 9x39mm match ammo anywhere?You can make it, but it doesn't exist commercially. There is hunting ammunition which is significantly better than the FMJ that's commercially available. The military ammunition is also better than the commercial FMJ, but none of it is 'precision' because that's not what most of the guns chambered in it are really intended for. 10-12 is really bad though, my experience wasn't so poor.
>>65208918Yes. Also people don't understand that intermediate barrier penetration is a far greater concern for military applications than it is for civilian shooters, everyone shittalks SS109/M855 and believes M193 to be superior in every way, but the truth is that M193 was flatly rejected by NATO because it had virtually no barrier defeating ability and became completely ineffective past 500M.
>>65208039There literally exist semi-auto commercial ones in Eastern Europe, people there have tried them.>>65208048>since the drop was pretty bad at 300 metersThat part isn't even weird though, it's a heavy and subsonic 9mm rifle bullet, its entire purpose is to be quiet and for shooting within relatively close distances, it's not an infantry rifle and wouldn't make sense to apply as one.I'm more shocked to hear that the MOA is allegedly as bad as 12, and I'm having a hard time believing that part, that would be grotesquely bad even by Russian standards.>special low penetration 5.45 or subsonsic frangible 7.62They wanted it to be quiet but not as weak as a .22, so 5.45mm would be a no-go, and they wanted a much heavier bullet than what they'd typically use for 7.62mm>>65208918Yes.>>65209010>10-12 is really bad though, my experience wasn't so poor.The other anon must have been shooting a defective or damaged example somehow, I can imagine it being subpar, but not THAT bad.
>>65207933I've used one in tarkov so I'm basically an expert on the subject. Pretty good gun/caliber
>>65208749>Its inaccurate at ranges higher than 200mUh, yeah? Was there an expectation that a 250 grain slug going airsoft speeds would be sub moa at the very edge of its effective range?
>>65208749>emendously expensive for civilian market (around 12usd per round in local currency)Damn you can get it for about $1 each here.
>>65208048>you never shoot at anything over 300m!>subsonics rounds are trash, you can't hit anything over 300m!Schrödinger's /k/
>>65208893>effectively a honey badger>UGH WTF WHY ISN'T IT SUB-MOA???Why isn't it? The honey badger is.>its a swat rifle for close range snoipinSo not like the honey badger at all. It's literally designed as a sniper weapon, accuracy is kinda necessary.
>>65208691They kinda had to.If they were modeled accurately:>They'd only be competitive early-game, where they'd be far too expensive and the ammo far too rare/heavy to be useful; or>They'd be available late-game, with similarly rare weapons/ammo, each and every one of which would completely outclass them in pretty much every metric
>>65209274Yeah, but if the zone itself was modelled accurately, any supersonic gunshot risks alerting a military patrol, mutant ambushes, a massive swarm of rats or a teleporting monolith patrol, and you'd generally be avoiding conflict like the plague as any injury means death in a world where orange radiation kits don't instantly heal sucking chest wounds, so a VSS or something similar could have more utility than most other conventional guns. Its just that similar guns to the VSS aren't likely to exist in the zone, delisles are museum pieces and the series predates 300 blackout being taken seriously; so the VSS would be your go-to
>>65208691If you take into account the average person you're shooting at in the Zone and the conditions you're fighting in, it would be fairly useful to have a suppressed subsonic gun.
>>65209059M855 was designed to penetrate a nondescript soviet helmet at subsonic velocities, you're a completely delusional shit-eater if you think it has any "barrier defeating" ability past 500m.
>>65210700>M855 was designed to penetrate a nondescript soviet helmet at subsonic velocitiesThat's a myth.
>>65208039I have tonnes of experience, but now I'm not telling.
>>65207969This wasn't my experience at all in Shadow of Chernobyl.
inb4 bullpupHow's shooting Malyuk? How good is the Trigger?
>>65210727that's the entire reasoning for its adoption you troglodyte
>>65210914It's really not.
>>65210917yes it is you absolute fuckwit
>>65209219nie zesraj sie
>>65207933>big fat slow bulletIt's a dumb idea even for pistols.Pants-on-head retarded for rifles.
>>65211055.45 bros...
>>65211060>inb4 1911-fudds step in to defend an obsolete cartridge meant to replicate the performance of a hopelessly obsolete black powder revolver cartridge form the mid 1800s as somehow being modern and competitive
>>65211055Fat and slow is your ONLY option if you want a rifle which is actually dead quiet but which isn't a dinky little .22, supersonic is great until you want to do something where you don't want the enemy to be able to easily hear you shooting.
>>65207992This is just the same thing but cheaper to build, right? So it's probably worse in every way besides cost.
>>65211081desu for civilian life it's literally fine, it's powerful enough to be viable for carry and HD, not hard to control, and it doesn't matter that magazine capacity is smaller because you'll probably not even need to fire a full mag of whatever you use anyway.
>>65211118>Fat and slow is your ONLY option if you want a rifle which is actually dead quiet but which isn't a dinky little .22Yeah, but noise level under suppressed is also the ONLY area where these rounds are superior in any respect to their high velocity counterparts.Although i do think slow and fat big old lead slugs have a certain charm of their own, and for that reason I own several black powder guns, I'm grounded enough in objective reality to see that these rounds have a shitload of drawbacks and very few advantages compared to modern cartridges.So while slow&fat suppressed rounds do have a legitimate military application, that application is extremely limited, to the point where the number of effective applications of these weapons in combat rivals the number of effective bayonet applications in modern combat.These applications are so rare as to be statistically irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
>>65211129>for civilian life it's literally fineYes, absolutely. I'm by no means disagreeing with that.It will shoot clean holes in paper if you need it to.It'll also drop a hostile two-legged predator if you need it to.There's no question about that.Same goes for other tried and true rounds like .38spc, 44spc, 44-40, etc.But that doesn't change the fact that these rounds are obsolete, or at best obsolescent, in a military context. And they're by no means modern or "just as good".It doesn't change the fact that there are now a multitude of other cartridges better suited for military and/or law enforcement use.
>>65211118>>65211144Retard here, is there any sci-fi bullshit way to get projectile weapons outside of the range of human hearing?
>>65211173>use fancy sci-fi electromagnet bullshit to quietly lob enormous high-mass projectile (canon ball or huge arrow) into target at subsonic speed>??????>profit
>>65211173It's called a subsonic projectile with a modern silencer.
>>65207933Only a little but i know a few people who handled more of them on more occasions than I have. They are not good rifles by most metrics. I like ak triggers and the vss and val ive gotten to play with had mushier triggers, the break was unpredictable. The accuracy was not great. I really wouldnt be comfortable shooting at a torso at longer than 200m. The recoil was less than i expected but this makes sense as its almost a pcc. It is very evident this was their attempt at something in the vein of a mp5sd and its execution wasnt great. I’ve heard they have a tendency to beat themselves to death but thats beyond my experience with them. The suppressor is very primitive even by soviet standards. From what im told the “gun guys” among Russian troops preferred suppressed 7.62x39 guns because they were more accurate, reliable, and not very much louder than 9x39 guns.
>>65211185This sounds plausible >>65211201Im talking like getting something down to whale song or up to dog whistle levels of noise. All modern guns are still audible.
>>65208918That's what he said.
>>65211463>SWATNo, it wasn't at all designed nor intended for use as a police weapon, it was for popping NATO sentries when Spetznatz were harassing backline units which is why it had a huge emphasis on AP properties while criminals weren't going to have armor back then.
>>65211160Mark 23.>>65211173Teleporting bullets into your enemies' skulls.
>>65211467Retard, russian police has (had?) Spetsnaz units, fsb had spetsnaz units, and they all would use VSS and AS because they needed something quiet with a heavy bullet that would drop people from 50m even if they had ballistic vests. Someone has mentioned MP5SD and it's actually a good comparison.
>>65207933Unless you can actually get, or manufacture one of these funs, and either have a supplier or reload for the ammo, id rather have .338 spectre.
>>65211490>Teleporting bullets into your enemies' skulls.i just learned lego makes picrel
>>65211513The point isn't who uses it, it's that it wasn't designed nor originally intended for police use you dumb fuck. It was designed in the fucking 80s when criminals wouldn't have had anything that required AP properties, but NATO gear was starting to get to the point where you couldn't trust that a suppressed pistol round was going to pop a sentry reliably. The fact it was a dogshit gun and dumb concept on the whole for a soldier to carry a heavy weapon with that limited use case quickly meant that the VSS wasn't used in it's original role for very long, but you're a retarded nigger who is unable to under the thought process behind the design and it's original use case.
>>65211544>it wasn't designed nor originally intended for police useIt was. KGB spetsnaz was literally swat. Now cry a little bit more about it.
>>65211558
>>65208285>molot armsnot a vss.
>>65211544>dumb concept on the whole for a soldier to carry a heavy weapon with that limited use caseNTA, but it wasn't strictly for soldiers. Military spetznaz and KGB spetznaz were completely separate entities in the soviet union with their own supply chains and development pipelines, a sort of Iranian army vs IRGC situation. I wouldn't call them SWAT, but they did certainly have a focus on intel gathering, assassination and general short-ranged urban work that the actual military did not. Hence why they originally came in a suitcase.
