>>65210249
Belgium had the Sturmbrigade „Wallonien“ which did very well in the East. Also Leon Degrelle who was quite a character.

>>65210249
>Finland
>lost sight of the grander picture
The Finnish alliance was always a marriage of convenience and their only goal as a nation was preserving their sovereignty and democratic government from the Russians, which they achieved

>>65210295
1. No, they didn't. They had to cede territory, pay reparations, allow restrictions against their sovereignty and had to base their entire diplomacy around not pissing off the soviets to remain formally independent.
2. Thinking they could just take care of their own little side-quest and everything else would work out on its own was retarded.

>>65210295
This + Germans should have tried to be less worthless in Lapland if Murmansk and railroad were indeed important. Even SS was shit up there and got their shit kicked in by 18 year olds in 1944.

>>65210307
It worked out, they didn't get turned into a SSR as revenge by the Russians and the German chimpout was manageable.

>>65210295
>democratic government
You're projecting American values on Fins from 100 years ago. They mostly just didn't want to be ruled by Russians. Democracy was an afterthought and the alliance with Germany was a natural fit considering their history of cooperation.

>>65210324
>It worked out
>>65210307
>They had to cede territory, pay reparations, allow restrictions against their sovereignty and had to base their entire diplomacy around not pissing off the soviets to remain formally independent.
+
>restrictions on the size and types of weapons Finland could maintain
>becoming a defensive military vassal of the USSR via the Finno-Soviet Treaty of 1948
>Finnish leaders, media, and cultural institutions censoring themselves to avoid pissing off Ivan
>>65210311
>This +
But they didn't achieve it, you lying retard.
>Germans should have tried to be less worthless
>Fins have literally one job and refuse to do anything else
>fail
The Swedish colonists in Finland did nothing wrong.

>>65210307
Fun fact, Finland was the only (axis affiliated) country that paid the reparations in full. Also, they couldn't get Marshall Aid, unlike Germany, thanks to the Soviets.

But the good thing that came out of it was to kickstart to the postwar industry and the foundations of the export industry as they have it now.

>>65210330
Oh its just Sven Svensson having a meltie.

>>65210331
>Fun fact, Finland was the only (axis affiliated) country that paid the reparations in full. Also, they couldn't get Marshall Aid, unlike Germany, thanks to the Soviets.
How di the soviets prevent that?
>But the good thing that came out of it was to kickstart to the postwar industry and the foundations of the export industry as they have it now.
Reminds me a bit of stories of the French industry in the 70s where they still used tons of machines looted from Germany after WWI while German companies tended to have much newer equipment simply because they had to replace the old machines.

File: Danskdävil.png (237 KB, 624x1191)

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>>65210338
Sven's right in this case though. I known it seems weird because they haven't been right a lot in the last century.

>>65210339
Wouldn't surprise me if French unions killed anyone who suggested using newer, more efficient equipment.

>>65210339
>How di the soviets prevent that?

The Soviet’s viewed the American economic program as a tool to divide Europe and vehemently opposed any US influence in Finland's affairs. So avoid being annexed like the Baltic states, Finland had to strictly adhere to a policy of neutrality to appeases the Soviet’s.

>>65210330
Germans attempted to get Murmansk, not Finns. Germany controlled the north half of the country and there were only German troops there. Gerbirgsjägers and SS couldnt advance 100 km in 3 years. Maybe bring hatchets and shovels next time lmao

>>65210331
Bot post? I googled
>Finland was the only (axis affiliated) country that paid the reparations in full
and it gave me a reddit post from 3 years ago with the exact reply in verbatim

>>65210379
>there were only German troops there
It's almost like Fins should've thought of the consequences of the greater war in the east failing and helped clean up their backyard instead of leaving it to the Germans.

>>65210379
>>65210311
What point are you even trying to make here? The Kola Peninsula was rightful Finnish clay, the Treaty of Tartu is gay and Fins lost Petsamo because they lost in WWII. Leaving Murmansk to the Soviets was stupid and bit Finland in the ass.

>>65210445
>>65210379
This is a thread about Germany's allies and we have anons here saying Germany's own failures were failures of its allies. Its not Finland's fault that Germany is shit at war and couldnt advance even 100 km in thr North or take St. Petersburg in the South.

>>65210494
People are saying Finnish WWII strategy was shortsighted and they're right, you're sperging out pretending they did nothing wrong. They should've viewed the war more holistically because their own fate was decided by how the entire war went and not just their small part of the front.

We are mere posts away from angry Umlauts coming out I can feel it.

>>65210581
Thë Ümläüts ärë cömïng! Thë Ümläüts ärë cömïng fõr üs äll!

>>65210575
Its unreasonable to say Finland should have fought Germany's war for it. Finland already used all resources it had to push as deep as it could. Germans barely got 2 steps from the start line with elite troops. I guess Mannerheim should have personally flown to Berlin to tell Hitler how shit things are and to send more men if they want to stop lend lease.

>>65210249
Is "at least they tried" really worthy of second place?

>>65210581
Jääkäri kääri Äteritsiputeritsipuolilautatsijänkän äreää kääkkää rääkkäävän häijyn äijän.

>>65210494
>or take St. Petersburg in the South.
The Finns were both extremely close to St. Petersburg and could have sealed the ring around the city.
The Finns knew this, they chose to sit back and enjoy their gains and leave the entirety of the Eastern Front (Finland's fate was intertwined with German success and it was obvious) to the Germans to handle.
Objectively, Finland was a terrible ally. It was easily the most self-interested member of Germany's allies because the Finns had no intention of helping the Germans much in return. The victory at Tali Ihantala was only possible with MASSIVE German aid, which the Germans gave during Operation Bagration of all events, just for Finland to immediately peace out after being rescued. German aid is why Finland wasn't conquered

Romania was the best due to oil and unlike all the others they actually achieved some things (despite horrid casualties) like conquering Odessa, having an active naval presence in the Black Sea and substantially supporting German efforts in Crimea. Antonescu was also loyal and not constantly trying to find the right moment to switch sides.

Hungary was bad and Germany supporting them in favor of Romania was a mistake as Hungary didn't replay the Vienna Awards and was of dubious loyalty.

Finland did their own thing and refused to do anything that amouted to leaving their doorstep. Nobody knows wtf they were even thinking, you want to take back your lands from the Soviets but when it comes to defeating the Soviets you're too scared to act? They're a meme.

>>65210604
>Its unreasonable to say Finland should have fought Germany's war for it.
Nobody says that. Germany was fighting Finland's war for it and Fins refused to participate beyond their most immediate goals.
That was stupid, because, clearly, the outcome of the entire war was critical for them. This isn't a debate, it already happened, anon. We know it happened, because they ended up under the heel of the Soviets.

>>65210748
>>Finland did their own thing and refused to do anything that amouted to leaving their doorstep. Nobody knows wtf they were even thinking, you want to take back your lands from the Soviets but when it comes to defeating the Soviets you're too scared to act? They're a meme.
Lack of conqueror spirit. They're maintainers. Something-something asian genes.

>>65210748
Another Romania appreciator, I see.
Too bad it's a complete shithole now.

>>65210748
>They're a meme.
Come on anon, you have to at least acknowledge that they soloed the soviet union with great success during the winter war, a feat that's only surpassed by the current Ukrainian resistance against Russia, they're not a meme at all, Finland is brave and strong

>>65210867
NTA but they had support and would have lost if the Soviets kept going for 2 more weeks. Mannerheim's genius was not in "winning" the war as there was no way to do that. It was in making it seem like the Fins weren't about to fall apart to make Stalin think the endeavour was pointless.
And thinking Ukraine, with basically the entire western world behind them is comparable to Finland is delusional.

>>65210880
>And thinking Ukraine, with basically the entire western world behind them is comparable to Finland is delusional.
the western world is doing the bare minimum, ukrainian victories are 90+% due to their own merit as a great warrior-people, they're simply natural fighters

>>65210892
That's retarded and so are you, anon.
The Ukrainians are good at improvising but pretty incompetent otherwise and not much better than Russians in most regards.
And western aid has been very substantial.

>>65210408
I just did the same thing. What the fuck.
>>65210331
Are you the reddit guy or did you just copy and paste his post?

>>65210920
I'm actually more interested in why a bot would want to keep my thread alive if he is one.

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1.04 MB JPG

Finnish forces made it to River Svir (at the top right corner of this map) in 1941/42 with their dinky army raised from a population of barely 3,7 million, and to this day wehraboos blame them for not carrying the Germans on the Leningrad front, and also for not taking Murmansk for them while trying to maintain a porous front of 1000+ kms. Yeah the Finns punched above their weight in some categories, but they weren't miracle workers.

>>65210994
>to this day wehraboos blame
Anon, this isn't reddit.

>>65211011
Sorry, meant to type
>to this day faggots blame

>>65210994
See >>65210680

>>65210295
>preserving their democratic government
projecting modern values into the past. they were protecting their land, not democracy. Hell, do you think people fighting in Ukraine do it for muh democracy?

>>65211044
Such a gay way to do it too.
>muh democracy is under attack
is truly the most homosexual of all propaganda angles.

>>65211033
Yeah I saw that post. Why is it Finland's job to push south and not the Germans (a more powerful nation by all metrics) to push north to Svir? What can the Finns do there that the Germans couldn't?

>>65211065
>why is it finland's job to help in the war
gee idk

>>65211065
1. German support of Finland was massive and Germany fought far up in the nort for finland, you're uninformed or crazy.
2. It's Finland's job to help win the war because Finland has a duty to its citizens to prevent Soviets from raping them and taking over their land if they lose.
Finland's fate was bound to Germany by the simple fact that Germany was literally the only power doing anything to contain the USSR.

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>>65210249
Wack. Bulgaria was the only Axis Power to gain territory.

>>65211109
Doesn't that kinda speak against them as an ally?

>FINLAND SHOULD HAVE HELPED POOR LITTLE GERMANY WIN AGAINST THE SOVIET UNION
You guys are fucking retarded, if your entire war hinges on some forest Finnoids then you deserve to lose.

>>65211409
Why does it make you so mad that people point out that Finland's war-strategy was dangerously egocentric and short-sighted?

>>65211411
Finland was a poor shithole with a tiny rural population. Next you're going to blame Romania for not smashing Bagration.

>>65211416
Size is irrelevant to smart decision making, anon.
This is the second time you've made up things nobody wrote.
Why?

>>65211426
If size is irrelevant, why didn't German forces link up with Finnish forces at the Svir?

>>65211466
Anon, that's a non-sequitur.
As the prostitute you hired to take your virginity probably told you, size actually matters a lot.
It just doesn't matter when it comes to making smart decisions and neither do your continuous attempts to reframe the conversation.
The Fins acted retarded, your personal animus against the Wehrmacht really doesn't change anything about that.

>>65211475
So you can't actually formulate what the Finns could do that the Germans couldn't?

>>65211479
How is that relevant now?

>>65211486
Because you seem to think that Finland would have been able to achieve something that Germany couldn't, i.e finish off the encirclement of Leningrad, but you don't offer any solutions on how that could be done?

>>65211512
Your incredible insecurity and delusions about the performance of an irrelevant nation in WWII is more than just a bit weird.
Yes, it could have done something that Germany couldn't. Finland could have deployed Finnish troops.
>don't offer any solutions
Anon posted about it here: >>65210680
Instead of engaging you acted like a passive-aggressive transsexual from reddit and posted the same seething, whining and coping faggotry several times while replying to absolutely nobody you're actually upset at, because you're afraid of strangers online disagreeing with you in a direct conversation.
You pathetic little worm.

>>65210295
This. Only a retarded wehraboo would debate on this.

>>65211550
>muh democracy
>wehraboo
Bait.

>>65211554
He said "democratic government" and indeed Finns had a democratic government unlike soviets and they happened to retain it. Now consider euthanasia.

>>65211567
Nobody gave a fuck, redditor. That's not why anybody fought back then.

>>65211567
They'd have dropped democracy in a heartbeat for monarchy in exchange for getting control of their whole peninsula.

>>65211579
>>65211581
They didn't want to live under Soviet yoke.
>They'd have dropped democracy in a heartbeat for monarchy in exchange for getting control of their whole peninsula
Oh, they should've become Finnish SSR then. Are you brown? I don't believe a white person can possibly be so stupid.

>>65211585
>They didn't want to live under Soviet yoke.
Then it wasn't about democracy, you dumb nigger.
They also failed to protect their sovereignty, open a history book.
>Oh, they should've become Finnish SSR then
That wasn't monarchist, you dumb fuck. Just because you don't want to be a commie doesn't mean you care about democracy.

>>65211585
>haha you're stupid they should have just become communists under the USSR if they wanted to control their own land
Amazing.

>>65211109
And the cost was only the russians raeping the countryside, killing anybody with a brain or money, plundering the country's resources for decades and installing a regime of cucks. That still exist and lament not being able to suck russian dicks on state tv... So good for some worthless ground