>isolate trench>supress enemy fire support assets with artillery>SAW team provides security against tactical drones>clearing dugouts with grenadesFull video:https://files.catbox.moe/52wx5z.mp4Did drones really revolutionize tactics that much or just added another layer of fire support?
sorry i don't speak chopsticks
I dont understand the need to clear it. Just bypass it and drop some drones on them.
Less fire support, more ISR. And its not even really the quality of the ISR, we had thermals at 30k ft 20 years ago; but its how organic and reactive it is, previously intel would have to filter down the CoC to you which would optimistically take 5 minutes but realistically would get held up somewhere; now everybody in the fire team can be in constant direct dialog with their eye in the sky.
Why not just assault it with heavy armor and then let the mechanized infantry debus and clear it with grenades and flamethrowers?
>>65215585Ive never seen such neat trenches in Ukraine. And there is going to be more that one loitering drone. These tactics sound like the current Russian/Ukraine tactics that yield high as fuck casualties on both sides. Grim.
>>65215623the casualties come from being a conscript army
>>65215585STOP BUNCHING UP YOUR FUCKING RETARDS also, they did not use enough nades. they just tossed one (1) in each tunnel
>>65215615>bypass itWhat if they fly drones out of it to hit you from behind? you don't want to leave an enemy position behind you like that.>>65215619Portable AT weapons means that vehicles must stay at a certain range from enemy infantry positions
>>65215585all those guys tight packed are drone meat.
The correct approach is:* artillery* drones (oversight + suicide)* more artillery* then more drones for whatever isn't turned into sufficiently thin paste yetThen and only then do you send in infantry.
>>65215623>there is going to be more that one loitering droneI think the main takeaway is massing the available SAWs to create a counter UAS security team and also they use their own drones to maintain overwatch and if any enemy drone operator position is suspected it would be pounded with artillery.
>>65215633>waow, free killstreak!
>>65215585I walk faster than this drone flew.And I don't wear a bright orange safety helmet either.
>>65215585I don't know about the soldiers being so close together like this. I don't think a few SAWs are enough to keep the sky clear of drones, and just one getting through could kill a whole squad.Webmrel, russian trench assault that gets foiled by just a few grenade drops.
>>65215747You don't really see footege of drops like that anymore for a reason, their own drones overwatch the assaulting force, there's a battle for drone dominance that happens before and during the infantry battle to determine which side has an advantage.
>all the anons not understanding that this is just a morale boostInfantry ans tankers are almost virtually guaranteed to die now a days in drone saturated areas. If drones spot you theyre going to endlessly come until Youre dead unless your own drones can deal with their operators.
>>65215585>added another layer of fire support?>>65215761>drone saturated areasIt's just another layer of dominance. But ty. I will separate air power from dronve coverage. Every layer is just another facet.>obital assets>airpower>artillery>suppy chain>armor>infantryLose dominance of one or more facets, struggle and/or lose.
>>65215756Was Rommel an ESL?
>>65215767anon. . .
>>65215585What crappy weather, couldn't they have picked a nice day to train?
>>65215585>>SAW team provides security against tactical dronesWorks pretty good against orange drones. Some day drones will sport camo paint jobs. Put me in the sceencap.
>>65215585Japan hasn't fought a ground war in the last 80 years so I would trust Ukrainian tactics over Japanese tactics.
>>65215767He was ETL. His second was Yiddish.
>>65215585The japs were always pissy poopoo at ground tactics and only ever succeeded when their enemy was even pissier and poopier. The frontlines in china were basically them taking turns occupying the same city because neither side could defend.
>>65215778>>65215710It's meant to be visible for the audience wathing from a certain distance.>>65215804it's literally based on Ukrainian tactics.The most reliable counter we have for FPV drones is just infantry shooting them with rifles.
>>65215633Honestly I never got why this hasn't been a bigger takeaway for most militaries given how much small and/or precise HE is on the battlefield these days.
>>65216275There is no takeaway, they're just simply doing it wrong. There is no modern military that claims you should bunch up your men.
they should be blindfiring around each corner and using way more nades, even if they can't do it for safety reasons at least have them do the motions and yell BANG (just give them blankfire adapters, have them use weapons already set up on the range to practice shooting at drones)
>>65216511This. The amount of bindfire and nades used in pov videos of trench clearing is off the scale.
>>65216466Except when you're stacking in urban cqc of course
>>65215585It's good that they are practicing. They should work up to the point that they can train against Ukie aggressor squads. >mirin' the Soviet type ammo box trench liners
>>65215585>no bayonets>no swords1/10
>>65215633>>65215585>The one takeaway that every nation should have learned during the GWOT was to not have your guys bunch up>Said lesson has been repeatedly learned and forgotten at least since Vietnam>Yet somehow nation states keep forgetting this lessonWhy?
>>65215704>and if any enemy drone operator position is suspectedDrone operators might not even be near the frontlines. Just some launch-stashes a dozen or more km away from the frontline, remote-operated from positions even further away.
>>65216701artillery has 25km range, double with specialized ammo, friendly drones will provide targeting
>>65216694Bad training. Even their own manuals should say something about spacing and watching your rear in CQC.Also bunching up looks cool. It looks like they decided to take cues from Hollywood instead of their own manuals. Which is sad, if they want to shoot a PR movie they should just go watch some trench-fighting videos from Ukraine for extra verisimilitude.
>>65216694>Why?Low quality officer corps.
>>65215585>Did drones really revolutionize tactics that much or just added another layer of fire support?Yes and no. The extra fire support is not much for conventional forces. The extra scouting ability is what's revolutionary.
>>65215633>>65216694>>65216721>if you ever come close to anyone else in combat for even 1 second you immediately combustmidwits
>>65216747this but unironically
>>65216747>Not clustering together to make a large, high value target is midwit now...Do you even know what the term "enfilade" means?
>>65216721>they want to shoot a PR movie>he doesn't knowThis is the yearly SDF firepower demonstration for the japanese public. It's not intended to be realistic.
>>65216863That's what I said, it's PR but they took their cues from the wrong place. I don't know about you but I think looking competent, chucking lots of grenades and actually having the dudes cover approaches instead of imitating dogs boning each other looks much better for PR.
>>65216847>>65216873A fireteam of 4 soldiers moving close together is normal even in real combat footage, having the extra guns and grenade tossers close is necessary in this situation.
>>65216896Yeah, if you're watching a third world video.
>>65216747There's early Ukraine scope footage where a bunch of Russians line up like that before a corner in the weeds thinking they're safe, and a designated marksman with a semi-auto just gets the filthiest killfeed by whacking them - without even picking targets, just centering the crosshairs on the human mass and watching them fall over with each trigger pull.
>>65216873>dog and pony show (West) :0>dog and pony show (Japan) :/Their navy and air force get practice but their ground forces are straitjacketed at the best of times. Scroll back and view prior years' displays to get the context of what this is. This is an increase in realism compared to the usual show which is more like a fireworks display at a static range. They started doing these "what combat works like" demos for the public 4-5 years ago, before that it was even worse.Think reddit. Bang pow kaching faux cute type stuff.
>>65215585Ukraine doesn't want you to know this, but the drones are free. I have 438 drones in my garage.Also a penis.
>>65215615>>65216747You stupid fucking nigger.
>>65217255>dog and pony show (West) :0>dog and pony show (Japan) :/If the West showed something like this, it wouldn't be :0, everybody would be raging.
weakest JGSDF infantry squad
>>65216694It's human nature. Under high stress situations, we naturally bunch up for mutual support and morale. We can see even real monkeys and chimps do this in their wars (google the recent chimp war). Drones are unnatural predators, completely alien to human nature. We must declare a Jihad against thinking machines.
>>65215633Its training so maybe not trying to be realistic. There should be 1/4 the people to start with.
>>65216688I know right?
>>65218399
>>65216747this is one of the (remarkably) frequent instances where even videogames end up having a great lesson to teach. If you've ever played squad or insurgency you'll know bunching up is retarded and a great way to get wiped, and yet modern militaries seem incapable of learning this. That said speaking for the UK at least our training (in my experience) has heavily emphasised keeping spaced out while on patrol, I would hope the same is true for yanks
>>65218404Soldiers do not. This spacing is something an American mutt drill sergeant would lose their mind over if recruits in boot camp did it. If you can fit more than 2-3 men in the view of 1 camera something is direly wrong. There shouldn't be less than 5 meters minimum spacing, ever, and in an open area like that even the most traditionalist boomerbrained retard would be expecting 15m apart. It's not even modern war that's the standard of last century!
>>65215756that and they move in smaller groups now to avoid being killed since their own drones can't save them
Man, JGSDF vests are really aesthetic. It's sad they're phasing out the shoulder-pads on their newest body armor, though.
>>65215641Bypass it by throwing charges into it.You can't help being surrounded, that's basically trench warfare right now, you can waste casualties clearing, or you can wait till they run out of supplies/burn them out/blow up the entrances and use thermals to find secondary exits/vents.
>>65215633>>65215705Assuming you've lost air superiority is poor training. You never learn basics, like squad tactics.>B-B-BUT DRONESB-b-b-but artillery ran the same risk and has since Napoleon.
If your idea of clearing anything doesn't involve hucking an absolute pile of grenades, you're just doing a LARP. Unless there are hostages involved, I guess.Ideally you chuck enough grenades that every inch of trench would be hit. And then a couple more for good measure.
>>65215633I mean it's a live streamed public demonstration using live ammo in a limited space. It's heavily choregraphed to make sure Pvt Takeshi doesn't get shot or blown up on live TV. If everyone is doing 20m-30m spacing then it will be much harder to notice if Pvt Takeshi falls in the grass and gets injured before more rounds start going down range. This demo is just for the public to go "wow look at the cool soldiers. I'm glad we pay taxes so they can protect us" than it is a representation of accurate training. It's retarded to treat this as a 100% accurate representation of their tactics unless you want to believe that Japan is putting 155mm howitzers along with mortars on the same firing line in a nice neat row with equally bad spacing. There just isn't enough space to accurately show realistic maneuvers and those probably look less cool to the public.
>>65223316buzz killington is right. I WANT TO ADDRESS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THAT THE M249 SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN RETIRED.
>>65215619perhaps you don't have armor available at the time. Gotta be able to do as much with infantry as possible
>>65215756in the future I predict that the air battle will be preceded by a battle for orbital dominance
>>65216747>>if you ever come close to anyone else in combat for even 1 second you immediately combustThe ukraine war unironically is the first war where this is a high possibility risk. Drones can and will target clumps.
>>65220503Artillery has needed spotters ever since Napoleon. The game changing technology that is really at play here are cheap high quality optics that you can put on cheap drones. That is novel.
