Will people ever realize that the shift away from DA/SA was a mistake? It's normal to see people advising caution with draw strings, shirt tails, or soft holsters because they can get in the trigger guard and accidentally pull a standard striker fired trigger, and at the same time, the hot new carry gun has people stuffing a 4 pound striker fired trigger in their pockets.And throughout the whole ongoing P320 controversy, very few people have ever pointed out that every excuse and justification that Sig has come up with:>Their hand was resting on the gun>They fiddled with it in the holster>Something was lodged in the holster>The open handcuff slid inside the trigger guard gap on a light bearing holsteris only possible with a striker fired trigger. If it was a P226 going off in those holsters, there would be no possible reason other than an obvious mechanical defect, but Sig has gotten away with it because there has always been that glaringly obvious safety issue that only exists with the standard striker fired trigger. Making the trigger pull lighter and shorter with no manual safety was always a stupid idea, but it saves money for large contract buyers who don't spend as much training recruits compared to a DA/SA pistol, so it was forced upon all of us. TL;DR: The DA/SA Wonder 9 era produced the best and safest pistols, and the newer striker fired 9s are inherently less safe just for the sake of cost cutting and to appease lazy people.
>>65220610>is only possible with a striker fired trigger.bullshit nds happened with sa triggers or da/sa guns without firing pin blocks
>>65220610No, the market is so thoroughly captured that if gun companies all started adding a compressed fart gas cannister that sprayed you directly in the nostril with every shot people would clap like seals
Glock's fault.
>>65220619Of course, we've all heard of Tex Grebner and that CZ Shadow 2 incident. I'm talking about this genre of accidental discharge in the holster or while reholstering, which is exclusive to the common striker fired pistol.
OK, I fix.
>>65220610I agree I felt the safest carrying my da/sa Makarov years ago rather than the Glock I'm currently carrying. I wish someone would properly modernize the mak attack, it's a phenomenal little pistol and would still be viable if the capacity were improved while maintaining the same grip width.
>>65220755dick status?
>>65220755classic. get glocked motherfucker.
>>65220762I would be fine with the 8+1 if it wouldn't rape my thumb knuckle and if it came with modern sights, but if you didn't know, there's the Bersa Thunder Plus which is close to what you're looking for.
get glocked motherfuckers https://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/
>>65220755>The gentleman was wearing an undershirt and the current thought is that part of it got caught/pushed into the G-Code holster when the G43 was holstered. I can see that as a plausible explanation. When he bent over the fabric in the holster pulled against the trigger and caused the discharge"
>>65220610How did people get convinced that the best concealed carry pistols should have hair triggers and no safety? Inb4>Da trigga is da safety jus be safe n git gud yull neva ND!>bad things only happen to other people and if it does its their fault Nigger mentality
>>65220843Yeah I don't get it either, just carry something with a safety. No you're not gonna die because you take an extra .03 seconds to flip the switch off
>>65220762get a cz83 their cheap and wonderful
>>65220610I like DA/SA and hammers more, but Glockish triggers are easier to get average shooters consistent with, and that's made them popular, along with the compromise of not needing a manual safety.>but Sig has gotten away with it because there has always been that glaringly obvious safety issue that only exists with the standard striker fired triggerThe P320 is considerably more accident prone because Sig's manufacturing is too shitty to not run afoul of some of its many poor design choices, which is why you've actually gotten incidents where the fucking thing really does manage to shoot by itself.>>65220755>I'm talking about this genre of accidental discharge in the holster or while reholsteringPeople have done this with more types of guns you can imagine. Fingering the trigger when holstering is just really bad and retarded, you should train yourself to never do that.
>>65220843Glonks don't have hair triggers, in fact their triggers are mediocre.
>>65220610>Will people ever realize that the shift away from DA/SA was a mistake?Anyone who shoots handguns regularly already knows it
>>65220610The transition away from thumb safeties was a mistake.
>>65220772
>>65220755what an elaborate plan to get that ladies hands on his dick
I cut my teeth as a cop starting in the early 90’s and carried DA/SA Sigs before changing jobs and carrying Glocks and a DAK for the remainder. The late 90’s trend of DAO guns with revolver like trigger pulls was awful.
>>65221196>The late 90’s trend of DAO guns with revolver like trigger pulls was awful.Never understood this. Which retard came up with that idea and why?
>>65220762I don't think they're still available, but Grand Power power has the LP9M in 9x18 Makarov and sold it in the USA. I was planning on buying one after I bought a few other guns but now the website 404's when I visit the page.
>>65221230Was partially an attempt at trying to make them more familiar to shitty cops who only ever shot their revolvers in DA.The only actually sensible approach to this at all was the Browning BDM pistol ('Browning Double Model'), which was, stylistically, a modernized 9mm Hi-Power featuring a selectable DA/SA trigger. See that round thing on the slide which looks like a slotted screw head? It's a two position dial which selects between normal and "revolver" mode. There's a tab on rear of the magazine you'd use to turn it, but obviously many other implements would work.In normal mode, the slide recocks the hammer for you like you'd expect, but in revolver mode, it doesn't, instead defaulting to double-action, HOWEVER, you could still manually cock the hammer for one single-action shot. Thus, it'd mirror shooting traditional police revolvers, only it was a 15+1rd automatic, instead of a manual 6rd hand ejector.So, the theory of this pistol was that it would be a transitional sidearm for departments going from revolvers to automatics, officers could start out using it and practicing in revolver mode, but as they got comfortable with it, learn to use it as a proper automatic.
Also here's the rare BPM-D, DA/SA without the selector, and with a decocker. They made very few of these.
>>65221291Grand Power changed U.S. distributors a few times.https://www.grandpowerusa.com/
I'm a huge boomer when it comes to striker fired guns. I really only trust DA/SA, but I'll also be the first to admit that my tastes don't reflect any sort of massive degradation in firearms technology, but that they are just my own opinions.I personally value a manual safety/decoker, and I won't carry anything that doesn't have either of these. Its just my own autism that says that can't get past the fact that if I carried a stiker, I'd have a round coked and locked pointing at my balls. I just feel safter knowing that my own DA?SA is decocked, and I trust that longer heavier trigger to not go off and castrate me more than any stiker.Now, with all that said, I am curious about adding some sort of stiker fired pistol to my collection just to understand why people love these things so much.
>>65220610The best is actually partially precocked striker fired with a striker indicator, ex Glock with SCD, P99, PPS. The mistake was the SAO striker and not striker fired in general. Light LEM is a pretty good idea too.
>>65220843Because something something FINE MOTOR SKILLS KILT IN DA STREETS
>>65221910Boomers trained me to be afraid of rogue scotsmen.
>>65221904How about just adding manual safety to all this crap.
>>65220610Meanwhile the germans figured out how to get the best of both worlds>draw the striker with finger grip>single action trigger but uncocked when not gripped>cocking doesn't require any extra motion like flipping a safety switch>doesn't require just the right grip unlike 1911-style grip safetyThen patented it so nobody else could use itThen didn't bother to apply the patent to any more modelsAnd nobody bothered to come up with inventive ways round the patent either>some guys said fuck it, apparently licensed the patent and are bringing it backBasedhttps://p7pro.com/
>>65220815Yes, you need to be shirtless to safely carry a glock
You can get a 'striker control device' on a Glock. I have one on my 43x and it just works.
>>65222014It is a modern masterpiece. Best semiautomatic handgun since the 1911>p7proIdk about those guys.
>>65221883>why people love these things so muchThey are essentially single action handguns without a manual safety. The plastic frame softens the recoil impulse more than a metal frame. Some shooters like striker fired handguns because of the lighter pull weight of the trigger compared to the double action pull weight of something like a beretta 90 series. Many shooters hate going from double action to single action while shooting; they prefer a consistent trigger pull. Some shooters get striker triggers that have very light pull weight, very short travel, and minimal reset. The plastic frame used by many striker handguns absorbs more recoil than a metal frame. Many shooters also like the lack of a manual safety.On some striker fired handguns like the Smith and Wesson Military Police 9 the striker is nearly 100% pre-tensioned by cycling the slide. Pulling the trigger just disengages the trigger safety, disengages the striker block, and releases the striker; this results in a very light and fast trigger. You can totally remove the trigger safety and striker block on many striker fired handguns without causing malfunctions. This further improves the trigger feel. Strikers have shorter lock time than hammers. This means that you don't have to hold a striker fired gun steady on target for as much time as you have to with a hammer fired gun. Shorter lock time, what is in essence a single action trigger, a plastic frame, and simplified manual of arms make striker fired handguns much easier and more comfortable to shoot then double action or single action handguns. The obvious caveat being that striker handguns are inherently less safe than double action handguns or handguns with a manual safety.
>>65222292The difference in lock time isn't even perceptible, and doesn't make a difference outside of top competitive shooting where hairs need splitting.
>>65220954They're cool, I almost bought one recently. The only thing that sucks about them is that they can't be safely carried with a round in the chamber, and safety concerns are the whole point of this thread.
>>65221904there's zero difference between """""partially""""" cocked and fully cocked strikers, they all have the same shitty trigger with the same SAO functionality and pretending they're different is falling for glock's marketing ploy aimed at drooling retards that blast into their own legs with them.
>>65222292>The plastic frame softens the recoil impulse more than a metal frame.any softening would get compensated by the lighter weight of the gun, which increases felt recoil way more.people buy polymer frames because they are cheap and because they're light, not because of recoil.
>>65221830>shitty cops who only ever shot their revolvers in DAYou'd think they'd be a little more enthusiastic about learning how to use a better weapon to better protect their own life. Especially in the 90s when DA/SA autoloaders have been around for a couple of decades at that point.
>>65221230I think it was because of all the “Glock finger” Tupperware case ND’s and just sloppy ND’s in general. I only had the Colt Pony DAO because there few options for a 380 BUG and my dept. didn’t allow SAO. And at 16lbs every shoot was a bitch to qualify with. NYPD put that awful trigger in their Glocks and the early Sig DAO’s were nothing like the later DAK’s. Knowing how bad most cops shoot (could always see them throw the first DA shot) I wonder how anyone qualified with the DAO’s.
>>65222451As a former LEfag, I admire your optimism. Let’s just say I always wore my vest to range day.
>>65222451It's crazy how much handholding they got with multiple manufacturers making different trigger mechanisms just for the purpose of easing their transition from revolvers to semi autos. How many other career fields exist where workers can boo hoo enough to get a special version of the new equipment/software built just to allow them to drag their feet even longer through the learning process? >>65223424I was surprised at how bad the DA pull on an old West German Sig is when all I had ever touched was the new production Sigs. I bought the new style hammer strut and strut guide for mine, but that's the only time I've ever included greasing the hammer strut on a pistol as a part of the regular maintenance.
>>65223508I have a mix of German, 1/2 German and NuSigs and I’ve upgraded hammer strut/springs/housing on all of them except my WG P228. I know that’s the one that will be the biggest improvement. Big difference even between that and a stock P229.
>>65220610No, because when you set the bar at DA/SA you are just at the boomer's mistake.There is literally nothing wrong with just carrying a cocked and locked single action.>stuffing a 4 pound striker fired trigger in their pockets.Just bleach your skin and pretend to be white, that way you can learn what a belt is and use a holster.
>>65220610>Will people ever realize that John Browning got it right in the first place (after the influence of Georg Luger's trial entry in .45)2011's popularity and some LEO adoption traction goes in that direction. And after Glock eclipsing H&K on US consumer hostility, everyone can stop pretending they don't prefer 1911 grip angle, and only tolerate cheap mags, reliability + gigantic aftermarket options on what's otherwise a dinosaur mediocrity of a sidearm with dubious new retail value proposition apart from that.
>>65220762if you want a slightly more modern pistol in a similar form factor the p239 is an option
>>65220755This is the most dangerous scenario you can find yourself in with a striker pistol and it's still trivially easy to avoid, so easy that you really can't blame the design of the gun, you have to blame the user. It's a level of carelessness on par with pulling the trigger to make sure the chamber is empty. There is never any pressure to reholster quickly. There is always an opportunity to visually check the holster for obstructions. There is never an excuse not to guide the gun into the holster by eye. There is always an angle at which the gun can be inserted without flagging yourself (IF you aren't a fatass, if you are you shouldn't be carrying appendix anyway). I simply would bet my life that I can avoid NDing in this situation, if you can fuck this up you should not have a gun of any type.
>>65224103You are entirely correct, but it will fall on deaf ears.
>>65220970>striker triggers are easier to get consistent withNo. Even a shitty da/sa trigger is better than a striker trigger. >b-but the daThen don't use it? Shoot in single action>b-but the safetyThen don't use it? No gun NEEDs a safety in a kydex holster, and da/sa has the advantage of being safe enough in DA mode that it doesn't even need a holster or safety, and is ready to fire. You can't do that with a striker, which needs a kydex holster to be safe. Face it, zoomer, da/sa is better at everything.
>>65222311yes>>65222400also yes>>65222292good summary
>>65226043I agree with you in preferring DA/SA, but having to only learn one triggerpull makes it an easier pistol to learn to use for demographics which are known to not practice too much.That's not the best defense of it, but it's a good enough compromise that's better than just giving those people DAO guns.Further, a trigger being mediocre, or not as good as with hammer fired guns, doesn't make it unusable. A not-that-great, but still usable and consistent trigger, is ok enough for duty.>Then don't use it? No gun NEEDs a safety in a kydex holster, and da/sa has the advantage of being safe enough in DA mode that it doesn't even need a holster or safety, and is ready to fire.I think that just the DA pull on something like a CZ75 or 92FS is literally fine as a safety on its own, just the same as on a revolver, but you need to understand that there's idiots who will manage to ND such guns anyway.Look at the kind of person who manages to Glock their legs and how they actually did it, and you'll see circumstances where other guns would often not have fared any better. Holstering, quickly or/and without even looking, and often with their finger on the trigger, is REALLY bad and unsafe form even with a 1911 or P226, this kind of person will manage to ND even those guns.>Face it, zoomerI'm a millennial who likes gen x and baby boomer music, and gen x and baby boomer guns.>da/sa is better at everythingI largely agree, but you're forgetting about the factor that is people not taking weapons seriously enough, and people who are simply too stupid to not do stupid shit. Meanwhile, a Glock or M&P just aren't unsafe if you actually try to not be retarded with them, and that the triggers aren't bad enough that someone serious cannot put them to good use.
>>65220843I haven't the faintest clue.My, apparently very uncommon opinion, is that I'll happily put a chamber-loaded P320 in my pants pointed right at my penis but I'd NEVER carry one, or any other handgun without a manual safety. It costs me absolutely nothing. I thumb the safety as I draw. It benefits me a lot and hinders me none.
>>65226297>>65226141Back when I carried my USP45c, I carried cocked and locked. I felt thumbing the safety off as I drew was pretty instinctual.
>>65220843>>da trigger is the safetybut you didn't refute that.
>>65226338>just don't pull the trigger :^)It's a silly kind of statement that pretends not to understand the point.
>>65226383It's really not. It's extremely easy to just not pull the trigger when holstering the gun, if you can do that with a double-action revolver, you can do it with a Glock.
>>65226453>pretending not to understand the point
>>65221830That is so silly. Perfect example of over complication. You really don't even need any training to shoot a single action trigger anyway. It's basically a cheat code. And most of these guys had a single action option on their revolvers anyway....Still kind of a cool design on the BPM-D though, never heard of that.
>>65226453It's also extremely easy to use a da/sa trigger.
>>65220610i've never owned a striker fired piece of shit and never will
>>65226644checked, both (DA/SA and polymer striker) are extremely easy to use. Virtually no operational / use differences between them. Nothing particularly technologically-otherwise 'avantageous' about striker. It's just that the polymer frame striker pistols have been easier to sell as mass slop to NPCs and low rent sheriff/police depts. Here we are
I just wish we had the variety back. In the 2000s, all of the pistol actions lived together in harmony. Each brand was good at doing their own thing, most pistols were offered in a spread of calibers, 3 trigger actions, real finish options, grip options, and it worked well for everyone. But now that the private market has exploded in size and transcended traditional regional and political barriers, the best everyone can do is a subtle variation of a 9mm glock with no factory trigger options, maybe a manual safety option, and that's it. That's not progress, that's a perfect example of companies realizing that they can get away with putting in a fraction of the effort and people will still buy their shit.
>>65226794Wündernine forever
