Slow and heavy, or fast and light?
Slow and heavy is good for quiet stuff, but woefully dated for infantry rifles. There's a reason Russia and China had to copy 5.56mm to try to stay relevant.
>>65222582With Federals new Peak Alloy they are getting 3000 fps with a 8" 300 blackout MCX. Its now hyper velocity 5.56 at 3500 fps from a M4a1 or excellent velocity 300 blackout.
>>65222598I'd rather hyper velocity .224 projectiles, get more cavitation to longer ranges. You'll pay much more in recoil for heavier .308 caliber projectiles, that's putting you into battle rifle territory.
5.56 is the perfect jack of all trades cartridge, long barrel it's not bad at longer but reasonable engagement ranges, close quarters it's a good carbine round. Put it in a bullpup and you've got both in one.
>>65222582>fast and lightThe term SCHV has been thrown around, yes. Generally speaking, it gives better range and accuracy.
>Which way6.5
I never got into .300 BO when it was shit hot bc I didn’t live in an NFA friendly state. Now I’ve lived without it and want to get my PCC and rimfire cans before any new guns. I know…it’s just…I don’t have it.
>>65222621It really is an excellent infantry rifle cartridge. Pair with 7.62mm NATO for the perfect machinegun/DMR cartridge.
>>65222582For most situations most of the time fast and light is the better solution. Velocity is a much bigger part of the energy equation than mass, and as long as you can transfer that energy to the target (which 5.56mm does very well as long as it fragments, which it does at high velocity) it's a winner all round. You get less recoil, lighter ammunition and way longer accurate range without having to adjust for bullet drop.Slow and fat is great for more specialized roles where you need an ultra short barreled carbine that isn't going to allow a high velocity cartridge to reach adequate velocity in order to get acceptable performance. It also plays much nicer with suppressors. That's why 300 BLK is like a western equivalent of the 9x39mm concept. It doesn't need to do everything because it isn't meant to. The objective is good performance with short barrels and silencers rather than being a good all-rounder. It does that job great.>>65222656Scrounge around dusty gun shops for an unloved 300 BLK upper and build out a cheap lower as a pistol. I did a project like that under $300 and I'm thrilled with the results. It doesn't replace my 5.56mm rifles so I'm glad I didn't invest much money in it, but it is fun in it's own right.
>>65222871>Scrounge around dusty gun shops for an unloved 300 BLK upper and build out a cheap lowerngl I kind of want to do this with .350 legend for no real justifiable reason.I'd be lying if said it wasn't in no small part just because it looks funny.Like those slagathor pencils they give to very young or retarded children.I don't even live in a state with straight wall laws
>>65222582Fast and heavy.
Cheaper cartridges do everything 300 blackout does out of an AR pattern rifle. >stoppin' powa is a myth and if you really believed in it, reader, you would use .50 beowulf >subs! a cursory search unearthed plenty of sub sonic beowulf loads and at least one cartridge
>>65223116>cheaper Name them.
>>652231705.56x45 NATO.223 Remington
>>65222582speed. 50 gr 5.56 and 20" barrel
>>65223116>>stoppin' powa >is a myth and if you really believed in it, reader, you would use .50 beowulf.50 Beowulf IS more powerful than .223, but you don't need something like that because .223 makes a cavity the size of a tennis ball anyway, and is much lighter weight, farther reaching, flatter shooting, lower recoiling, etc. .50 Beowulf is rather for hunting and stuff like that, not infantry combat.
If I could cast a magic spell and rechamber every rifle in the entire world, tomorrow you'd wake up and the only remaining cartridges would be:>.22LR>6mm ARC>.338 ARC>6.5mm Creedmoor>.338 Norma MagnumPerfection. 80k PSI spec optional as desired on the 6mm, 6.5mm, and 338NM
>>652225829x39 is objectively the greatest subsonic rifle cartridge known to man.
>>65222871Sounds like the most based take I’ve read. Plus it negates the urge to go all in stockpiling ammo in a new caliber. I haven’t built anything in awhile so it’s a good excuse to use up some extra parts.
>>65222582I gotta go fast and light. I got a .308 cause I'm not a vagina that shoots little pussy bullets out of a fag gun when I LARP, but if you're talking about for realsies military shit with tens of thousands of people running around with fire support backed up by the appropriate logistics and stuff then I'm picking 5.56.
>>65223352Smoothbrain ignoramus post
>>65223422Dubs confirm. I must concur.
>>65223116>>65223287>Teleports behind you I did a .50 Beowulf build because I was impressed with the huge kinetic energy dump and penetration >200 yards. Designed for anti-vehicle/anti-emplacement use. It’s nice to have. When I zeroed my rifle, the tree I had my target on split in half.
>>65222582357 MAGNUM GETSS MOR NRGY THAN BOTH AND IS CHEAPER AND QUITR WIT 38BSPEC AND ISNT USED IS MATTEL PLASTIC FANTASTIC TOY GUNS EITHER WINCHESTER OR MARLIN EITHER WAY IT THEY WORKS-Richard JohnsonGod bless our postal inspectors!
There is simply no reason to use anything less than 50 Beowulf for CQB purposes and 300 Win Mag for an infantry rifle…really .338 LM but I know you fairies will complain about recoil and tinnitus.
Dude youre skinny and look anorexic she wont fuck you dude. We see you loser. Kill yaself.
30-06
>>65223311>Queer opinionsRetarded cartridge list. Min maxing it it would look something like this:12ga17hmr5.7x2844 magnum5.56x4530-306.8x51375 h&h470 nitro express This would cover everything you'd ever need to do.22lr only exists because of inertia. 17hmr is so much better 22 wouldn't even exist rn.
>>65223553Did you mean .17 hm2 or is your claim that no one should ever want or need a cartridge less powerful than a rimfire magnum?
>>65223467>tfw semiauto fags will never ever have a combo as good as 38/357
>>65222950its actually the best sbr round. its basically 9mm super mag
>>65223116>>stoppin' powa>is a myth
>>65223553Fine, I'm willing to replace 22 with 17hmr, but that makes for an even weaker subsonic than 22 already is and there's just literally nothing wrong with 22.5.7, 12ga simply don't belong on the list. I'm assuming you put 44 and 30-30 for lever guns and I don't care. 30-30 is completely pointless and does nothing rounds on list don't. 5.56 omitted intentionally. 6.8x51 was omitted intentionally, see above. Same with 375 and 470. This is such a boomer fudd list I'm going to have to ask you not to comment on me or my son's posts ever again.
>>6522355817hm2 sucks. Not enough ass for yotes while 17hmr can kill everything from yotes down to squirrels with headshots.I don't think 22lr or 17hm2 makes sense in this hypothetical since they wouldn't exist so the niche could be filled by home and the rounds cost would be about the same as 22lr.>>65223603There's no large demand for 17 subs but without 22lr there might be. Hard to tell how it's do since no one seriously considered it.5.46/6.8 omitted?That's retarded that's a coyote to moose tier range of power. Only sigger seething would make you ditch those cartridges.>Fudd listEvery round on the list represents a significant change in ballistics and cartridge design in their class. Crackhead response.
>>65222598>3000 fps with a 8" 300 blackout MCXThat's fucking nuts, where are you seeing this? I've got a 10" FN contract overrun CHF/CL 300 blk barrel that inexplicably came with a super, super small gas port at .063", and I couldn't figure out why.Wonder if it might have had something to do with that, gas port pressure with something that high velocity must be significant.
>>65223553Lmao you desperately and I mean desperately need to log off if this is what minmaxing is to you. Try12 gauge9mm5.56300 win mag50 bmgBirds, bears, niggers, elephants, helicopters, glowies, demomen, soldiers, spys, pyros, heavies, smokers, clickers, ravesluts, sanitation workers, all handled.
>>65223813Maybe you should since you literally can't hunt dg in Africa with your list. 50bmg is a retarded cartridge btw. 30mm + or bust. I could compromise and go12ga17hmr5.56416 Rigby if absolutely pressed and was willing to carry a sa revolver.
>>65223829>can't use 300 winmag for dangerous game1. Yes, you can, retard.2. You need to get laid
>>65223813Anon you're supposed to shoot rave sluts with your semen blaster not your boom stick.
>>65223781somewhere in the most recent podcast on the Sons of Liberty youtube channel they talk with Proof Research and discuss the high pressure ammo somewhere in there
>>65223719>5.46/6.8 omitted?Yes, because they do absolutely nothing that 6mm ARC and 6.5 Sneedmore don't already do better, and if you're shooting moose bring the 338 Norma Mag, which will also drop a brown bear or cape buffalo and will do it at ranges farther than you can shoot.5 cartridges I named do everything, and miss nothing.
>>65224079Purely visually i can tell 5.56 is cheaper, and easier, to manufacture and more is producable and carryable for the same cost and effort.You know, I still buy the powdered laundry detergent because water takes up space and mass and is a useless thing to have in your wash detergent. The machine already adds water.
>>65224079Also i guarantee you the army that can shoot 250,000 times will win against the one that can shoot 150,000 times, 99/100.
>>65224136Woah. Citation required!
>>65224079>and if you're shooting moose bring the 338 Norma Magunderage noguns theoretical minmaXXer detected
>>65223116> sub sonic beowulf loadsYour suppressor options are limited to $2500+ boutique .50 BMG cans that literally weigh 5 pounds and Bowers car mufflers that are louder than some flash hiders. Those of us that actually shoot suppressed big bores tend to stick with .458" and smaller for this reason. You would know this if you were one of us, but you are not, and you and a few other nogunz anons in this thread are currently making fools out of yourselves, and you don't even know it.
>>65223422Name a better one. I’ll wait.
>>65222582All I can say is thank God Trump’s would-be assassin was an AR babby shooting glorified squirrel bullets or we might have Kamala Harris in the White House right now.
>>65224252It's ridiculous how badly he missed multiple times, I thought for a long time crooks had to have used .22lr and the facts were wrong.Bridge of the nose to the ear is damn near 6 inches on a trump sized head and I've never met an AR that does worse than 1.5 inches/100yd best case, 4-5 on bad ammo.Trump is only alive because that kid was a fucking idiot.
>>65222582Physics say fast and light.
>>65223842You cannot use that cartridge for DG. .375 is the minimum for any country in Africa worth visiting.Guides aren't going to let you shoot anything dangerous with a 300wm either lmao you've no idea what you're talking about.
>>65224393well yea, who but an idiot thinks it's a good idea to try and assassinate a presidential candidate?even if you pull it off you've all but assured their VP the election
>>65223311Silly when the 6mm MAX is better in every way.
>>65224393
>>65224736Buster brown, listen, I hear what you're saying. The other guy is correct though. At a certain point 30-06 took every dangerous game animal on the planet. 300wm being the magnum version would make it perfectly viable as a dangerous game cartridge for an adequate shooter with correct ammo selection. Is it perfect? No, of course not. Will it work? Absolutely.
>>65222582Light and fast is objectively better but I like heavy and slow.
>>65224721500 grain projectile at 1500fps = 3.6kjfuckheavy and fuckslow250 grain at 2500 = 4.7kj125 grain at 3500 = 4.662.5 at 4500 = 3.8only moderately light but near the fastest speeds achievableand then we have the ballistics effects, where the heavier round performs better for longer regardless of the low initial velocity.The sweet spot for typical rifle needs, due to the many physics realities/limits, is in the 120-170 range from 2800 to 3200fps.
I'm not any of earlier anons but>>65224990>other guy is correctI feel like you might be talking past each other with definitions of "dangerous game". Yeah there is nothing in north america that can't be done with 308, you don't even need 300wm let alone more, with the very possible once-in-a-life-time exception of bighorn or the like. Not because they're armor plated but just because it's one of the only times you might need to shoot from a very long distance, and the lottery to win a golden ticket for that really is possibly once in a lifetime so it's worth having margin.But if you want to hunt in Africa specifically then you're going to have to follow the local laws the guides insist on whether it's theoretically necessary or not, and a fair number of the people who go unfortunately are richfags who are pretty shit at shooting. Not that there aren't richfags who are big into guns too, but some are just trying to buy their way to a trophy. I don't blame locals for having a poor opinion of that and wanting them to use a lot more then someone skilled would. So anon saying "you can't use that" is strictly correct in that you literally would not be allowed to use it.
>>65223352It's just a shitty and archaic, inefficient forerunner, to cartridges like .300BLK and .350LGN
>>65224130>>65224136Irrelevant in my magical world, as suddenly the cost and availability differences would cease existing as any rifle round not on the list would simply cease existing, having been replaced by the one on the lost most suited to it.>>65224169What, you think you can't shoot a moose with 338NM?>>65224229No need - literally any other one is better. 9x39 is easily the worst dedicated subsonic cartridge ever launched.
>>65224818Maybe you missed the "80k PSI spec optional", which accounts for any MAX loading.
>>65223553>This would cover everything you'd ever need to do.Not if you don't have ammo. Also, .470 NE is a retard move for a survival list. Among other retard moves in this list....
>>65225644>obviously pulling fine print clauses out of my ass after the fact justifies me in every wayYeah.
>>65223261>stability>distance
>>65224721>energy
>>65225909It's literally right there in the post you quote, ESL nigger.
Slow and heavy, like .45-70 slow and heavy.
>>65225643In my magical world every time I cum I produce a quart.So what.A pound of lead, brass and gunpowder only makes so many bullets.
>>65226467Ah yes we'd better arm them all with 17hm2 then, so that they can shoot the most and are assured to win.
>>65226472Now you're gettin it
