>all of NATO is buying itWhat went right?
>>65234333simple availibility - they should make a bigger one, this thing is tiny.....basically all of Nato needs a heavy lifter
>>65234435The bigger one is the Atlas but that leaves a gap where the Hercules used to sit.
>>65234435>>65234453>tinyit was expressly designed to succeed the C-130 in Brazilian service. Holds two M113s, and has aerial refueling capability>>65234333>What went rightchecked, Embraer makes good stuff. All a matter of being able to get the export contracts
>>65234333I find it really ugly am I the only one ? The A400M seems more practical too but I guess it's twice the price cause it's not made in a third world shithole
>>65234960probably has a shitty availability too.
>>65235784The C-390? Nah, In Brazil it reportedly had a readiness rate of 80% within its first 4 years of service and looking the global numbers its been put in at 93% readiness rating. Thats mostly due to it being a fairly simple airframe to work on. Whereas for the A400M I haven't been able to find any hard readiness ratings that are publicly available, but its a far more complex airframe as far as maintenance is concerned and it apparently has had spare parts availability issues among other various grounding issues that I think are pushing people to buy the C-390 instead
>>65235787no, I was talking about the a400m, bad wording
>>65234333>What went right?Big Brazilian Booty
Czech painting looks good.
Its the equivalent of a School Bus, which is one of the cheapest ways to move groups of people.
>>65234333C17 but cheaper because only 2 engines >whyPoor
>>65234333>Cheaper than a C-17 or A-400>flies further and carries more than a C-130Seems bretty gud
>>65236462U.S. can't even afford more C-17s
In a REFORGER 2026 scenario, would the A400M be able to carry American equipment across the Atlantic?
>>65234333>all of NATO is buying itDid NATO drastically shrink while I wasn't looking?
>>65236462>C17 but cheaper because only 2 engines It is cheaper because it is tiny and can only carry light vehicles.
>>65236510It carries the same payload as a C-130
>>65234333>What went right?massive investment in Embraer by the Brazilian Government, Americans not shopping for a tactical airlifter at this point, and Europeans fucking up the A400 bigtimejust wait for the Americans to decide it's time to replace the C-130, Embraer will be shown the door
>>65235787>>65235793the A400M problem is the same as the NH90 problem: Airbus doesn't have the aftermarket sustainment capacity and the customers don't have the funding commitment to expand that capacity and the French prioritised themselves and grabbed the lion's share of what was available
>>65234435it looks tiny because cockpit windows are gigantic, without know reference object they skew the size ratio.
>>65236603Do you even comprehend how much more a C-17 carries than C-130 or a C-390?
>>65236607>Europeans fucking up the A400 bigtimeQRD?
>>65236619Where in my post is 'C-17' mentionedbrainlet
>>65234435>all of Nato needs a heavy lifterWhat for? If the US triggers article 5 then the US will provide transport like they did in the GWOT, if an EU member triggers it then everything can move by road and rail.The only member that could trigger it where transport becames a problem would be Canada, the likely attackers would be Russia meaning road and rail still work or the US in which case the EU would sit out as they legally can with any war between members.
>>65236684NTA; Latvia needs to quit fucking around and build their section of Rail Baltica.
>>65236635quite ordinary stuff really:problems in meeting advertised specs due to delays in design engineeringlack of parts and lack of service capacity impacting fleet readiness ratesboth problems having their root causes in lack of fundingin turn due to external economic factors but also due to small customer base, which is a vicious spiral because potential customers look at the small user base and know all this will happenagain, all pretty ordinary problems faced by many types of products in civilian programmes as well as militaryrefer this table:>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A400M_Atlas#Operatorsthe first A400M was delivered to the French in 2013139 out of 178 orders have been produced 13 years laterall very delayed, and although the airframes are out, the capabilities are being concurrently upgraded also, at a later timefor this reason, France operates 18 C-130s, Germany 6, Italy 13, nearly all tankers, mainly because the A400M inflight refuelling capability was delayedultimately,fleet readiness problems <- lack of parts and R&D <- lack of funding <- lack of customers <- lack of support capacity <- lack of national defence budgetand why lack of defence budget?because Europe's real GDP growth has been quite dire throughout the 21st century, essentially debt-funded; and defence spending fell to an all-time low in 2014
>>65236707I blame the French.
>>65236681So you weren't even reading what you responded to?
>>65236727Nobody gaf about what slop (You) posted, plebbitard dumb fuck18 is minimum age to post on this site
>>65236719the French carry a big share of the blame because Airbus, but then again, the major partners who were not spending on defence until very recently are Germany, Italy and SpainFrance and UK have kept to their 2% of GDP commitment, but a significant chunk of that (about 0.3% of GDP) goes to the nuclear deterrent
>>65236745So you are just a retard and didn't realize what plane the C-390 was being compared to.
>>65236777checked,Read this >>65234922Get the fuck off of this site 12-year old and Stay Off of it.
>>65236782Showing you can't follow a respons chain is not the argument you thought it was.
>>65236805Get out and Stay Out.
>>65236614>Airbus doesn't have the aftermarket sustainment capacitySure thing buddy, the biggest civilian plane manufacturer in the world can't produce enough spare parts.Or you are just talking out of your ass.
>>65236982You just highlighted the reason, Airbus is focused on its civilian market.
>>65237126It's a freaking transport plane, not a 5th gen stealth fighter. It had its teething problems, especially the engines but /k/ is always stuck 10 years in the past.
>>65234333Would be cool if Brazil ever developed domestic engine production
>>65234453>where the Hercules used to sit.The Hercules is still in production.
>>65236982>the biggest civilian plane manufacturer in the world can't produce enough spare partsyes, because availability of spare parts is one of the issues with the A400M that people have with it. It's also far more expensive than the C-390 in both the per unit and flight hour categories which matters far more to governments than people realize. Meanwhile the UAE just bought 10 of the C390 with them being open to add an additional 10 to that order
>>65237463So far only for smaller aircraft like drones and missiles.
>>65237453Aircraft factories are not the "oh today we are making ___" assembly line meme.
>>65234333>What went right?I'm not surprised. The Brazilians have a lot of experience. They did invent the airplane, after all.
>>65234333>What went right?The right ratios of lift capacity, cost, and cost per flight hour. The A400M was supposed to fill the gap between the Herc and the Globemaster/Galaxy so its not a herc competitor. C-390 is the first platform that directly competes with the Herc. And because its a brand new design, it can outcompete the Herc because even though its been upgraded a bazillion times, at its bones it like 80 years old.
>>65237703This anon gets it.
>>65236457Ditched the green though
>>65236982>>65237453>It's a freaking transport planeyeah cause military transports use civilian electronics, civilian mid-air refuelling equipment, and you can just take a civilian Airbus worker off the A320 motor pool and s/he'll know how to fix up an A400M without further training, justl ike that>>65237703>The A400M was supposed to fill the gap between the Herc and the Globemaster/Galaxy so its not a herc competitor.the A400M was supposed to be a Herc competitor that could carry more shit, but they fucked it up
>>65238348>the A400M was supposed to be a Herc competitor that could carry more shit, but they fucked it upIts not. It was never supposed to be.
>>65238367it specifically was designed for rough-strip and short(er) runway capability IN ORDER to compete with the Herc
>>65238476 >IN ORDER to compete with the HercAnon, you repeating a point doesn't make it true. The Super Herc has an empty weight of 34-ish tons, and a standard payload of 15 tons. The Atlas has an empty weight of 78.something tons, and a standard payload of 30 tons. They physically can't compete with each other, because they're in different weight classes.
>>65238480>HMS Dreadnought massed 18ktons and carried 12" guns>USS South Dakota massed 44ktons and carried 16" guns>therefore they're not both battleshipsthe world doesn't only work on ESPN rules, chud
>>65238486That sounded smarter in your head. Nobody's denying they're both cargo planes. What we're denying is that they're direct competitors for the same segment.
>>65238492>heaviest most powerful warship afloat is not the same segmentmoron
>>65234333>all of NATO is buying it>Brazil 19, Hungary 3, Portugal 6, Austria 4, Czechs 2, Dutch 5, Koreans 3, Swedes 4, UAE 1056 aircraft is not a huge order book>>65238367>Its not. It was never supposed to be.Are you old enough to post here?Let me bring you all back to the halcyon days of the 20th century, dialup, and the end of history™>https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/1999/07/new-identity/>The 24-volume document sent to the seven ministries of defence spells out the commercial and technical details of a bid to meet the European Staff Requirement (ESR) for a transport aircraft to replace at least 400 in-service Lockheed Martin C-130s and Transalls, which have an average age of 24 years.>Under the Future Transport Aircraft (FTA) programme, Belgium, France, Spain and the UK have also asked for bids from AMC, Russia/Ukraine and the USA, to flush out the potential for competitive proposals from Lockheed Martin, proposing the C-130J (purchased as an interim solution by the UK), Boeing, for the C-17 Globemaster III, and Russia, with the An-7X (the An-70, modified to meet the ESR).>The finding highlights the continuing split between the German Government and Dasa on how best to meet the ESR. Dasa – a major Airbus partner – favours pursuing the A400M, while the government, for political reasons, is pushing for an An-70-based solution and has formed the Airtruck consortium to look into ways of Westernising the Ukrainian aircraft.>Thompson adds, however, that the need to respond to the request for proposals (RFP) has clarified the programme. He pushes the "clear case" for a brand-new aircraft incorporating proven Airbus technology, saying that it will have "twice the volume [of the C-130J], twice the payload and almost identical life cycle costs".>Compared to the C-17, the A400M provides "two-thirds of the volume and half the mean payload, but at less than half of the price and one-third of the life-cycle cost", he adds.
>>65238535If you read between the lines, they kinda wanted the Globemaster, but it was a bit too much plane, and Boeing were their regular lazy selves when it came to delivery, so they were in no particular rush to offer them a good deal. As usual, the krauts were zigger-suckers. "For political reasons", fucking retards.
>>65238556>As usual, the krauts were zigger-suckers. "For political reasons", fucking retardsyeah I thought that amusing enough to highlight>they kinda wanted the Globemaster, but it was a bit too much planeeverybody thinks that>If you read between the linesit's clear that now that a quarter of a century later, now the A400M has gone tits up and costs have ballooned, the narrative is to rewrite history, cast it as a middleweight, and forget conveniently about the>twice the payload of the C-130 at exactly the same great price!!promise that was made so long agolying fucking scumbags
>>65234435
>>65234333Simple, multifunctional, available. Anything that this thing can be used for means a more expensive platform is not required.
>>65238606>twice the payload of the C-130 at exactly the same great price!! You're misunderstanding their verbiage. They use very specific marketing-ese. "Almost identical life cycle costs" refers exclusively to maintenance costs, not to initial purchase price. Which makes it narrowly correct, since both the Atlas and the Super Herc are 4-engined turboprops, so they have the same type and number of engines to maintain.
>>65239115>lifecycle cost doesn't include purchase price>all 4-engined turboprops have the same lifecycle costnow watch the spin doctor try to argue how the A400M wasn't intended to replace the C-130, and the Europeans caving and buying C-130Js was actually all according to keikaku
>>65234333>cockpit made from a mix of a320 and a350>engines from a320 can be found literally everywhere>slightly bigger than a c130>literally better in any way possible
>>65239122it gets even better when you go down the drainhole of germany and realise that the a400m was intended to wear 4 trent 700s and germany was crying about rising costs
>>65239265>anti-german copefrog parallel universe 50 IQ hallucinations have started againjust another day on /k/Germany got that thing in the air, saved the program after financing the most of it, like always and made it into the massive success it its, with all operators wanting more and many lining up to get a piece of the A400M cake
>>65239115Extra stupid given that the C-130J used off-shelf mature Allison turboprops and the Atlas required a brand new three-spool abomination be developed. Another thing that went right for Brazil and the C-390: just buying a cheap engine in commercial service.
>>65234333
>>65234333>>65239753
>>65239265>was intended to wear 4 trent 700s Dunno where that came from, but it absolutely wasn't. Short take-off was one of the main requirements, and that excluded turbofans.
>>65239753>>65239756
>>65238535Gayreece ordered 3 units last week.
>>65239869and that's still one-third of the A400M order book
>>65239782oh boy you are in for a suprisehttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/283727434_The_Future_Large_Aircraft_Airbus_A400M
>>65239922True, but there is also the upcoming India decision for 40 units(C-390 is the favorite) and Saudi Arabia who's also negotiating a similar amount.But like the others said, C-390 and A400M fill very different roles. We might see someone in Europe operating both in the future.
