Why are sci-fi aerial units always such pieces of shit?
>>65235452Because realistic is what we see whenever we look at the world. Fantastical things try to not be realistic and then they don't try they tend to be boring.
I like the manta
>>65235452Looks cool af, fr
>>65235452because very few artists for films, boardgames, or video games are trained aeronautical engineers, and even less of those films, boardgames and video games are setting design briefs for functional aircraft designs.
>>65235452Grok, make this design airworthy
>>65235452That tail fin looks too stubby
>>65235488Grok can't, but Gork can.It's actually fucking hilarious that the Orks of all motherfuckers have the only airworthy flyer in 40k.
>have uberr duber engines that can work both in atmosphere and outside atmosphere>when going hypersonic you become a giant ball of flame inside the atmosphere>just slap more armor on the plane and make it a flying tankmodern BWR combat work because you can kill the enemy befoer he can close the gap, it becomes useless if you cant even scratch the paint
>>65235488Take an Su-25 or YA-9, move the cockpit rearward, and the intakes forward?
>>65235452Halo has some pretty cool aerial units like the broadsword and longsword and the pelican is basically an iconic design at this point. But I would say most sci-fi franchises think of space warfare as something akin to 17th century navel warfare rather than the mid-20th century navel warfare it will actually be like so they forget to develop smaller flying units that would most likely exist and only put them in lazily as obligatory transports for the ground troops but never develop them beyond that, so the designs are always lackluster.
>>65235513>pelican is basically an iconic design at this point. >pelicanYou mean the UD-4 Cheyenne's fat sister?
>>65235504Such is the power of belief
>>65235452I like this one.
As always, the space elves have the best looking vehicles.>tfw their hover tanks can go faster than some real life planes.
>>65235600Almost forgot my photographic evidence.
>>65235452Because they have to be visible onscreen or on a table, which isn't conducive to designs that fly in the stratosphere at mach 11 and drop mini nukes on your head with impunity. If you're talking about why warhammer specifically looks like dogshit, its because all the old models that established the aesthetic were made from old WW2 kits and what could be scratch built from boards, leading to very angular shapes.
>>65235600Gotta be a real mind fuck to do a gun run on some tanks only for them to take flight and shoot you down.
>>65235601be careful not to cut yourself on that plane
>>65235452can 4th/5th gen fighters stand up against this thing?
>>65235452It's probably really maneuverable though.
>>65235703Yeah, mostly because the Imperials refuse to give it any countermeasures beyond "just dodge it bro." Even the >>65235586 Orks at least give their rustbuckets chaff when they aren't flying them straight out of the shed they were assembled.
>>65235452Well you purposefully chose the setting made by a bunch of nogunz britbong nerds from the 1980s.
>>65235452Because the goal is not to produce aerodynamically sensible designs that are ready for production. The goal is to build something distinctive, that their customers will think is cool, and that fits within the design language/aesthetics of the setting and factions.
>>65235452Too small, too slow. They're built like a Cessna. Scifi planes are built like quadcopters complete with the 40mph top speed.
>>65235873>>65235703the ammount of armor on a imperial plane makes modern shrapnel AA useless.
>>65235488Its... not bad?
>>65235452Bc you can't suspend your disbelief. Next.
>>65236427Soulless>>65235452Soul>>65235586Soulmaxxing
>>65235873The Thunderbolt has armor in between that of an IFV and an Imperial tank in terms of how much damage it can withstand.
>>65235703I don't think any aircraft limited to atmosphere only can stand up against an SSO capable fighter
>>65236427the third engine isn't a jet, it's a rocket booster to let it reach orbiting starships. (yes they have magic engines with near infinite dV)
>>65236525To be fair I asked the AI to optimize the Thunderbolt for atmospheric combat, so it just turned it into an air fed fighter.
>>65235452it's not too weird, seriously
>>65236525https://dn790003.ca.archive.org/0/items/aliens-colonial-marines-technical-manual/Aliens%20-%20Colonial%20Marines%20Technical%20Manual.pdfalien goes into a >ramjet scramjet engine able to switch beetwen air breathing to rocket
>>65235452it's like an IAR-80 with two little jet engines, what's weird about that?
>>65236427Sprey would love this. Looks like an F-4 with downs given steroids.
>>65236559that won't get you the dV you need without huge propellant tanks and a tiny payload fraction, the engines are magic
>>65236583It could be a case of them just not giving a fuck about incredibly volatile high pressure fuel, if you wanted to recreate something similar today. The biggest issue we have is making something like that which won't just immediately blow up instead of moving the craft where we want it to go.
>>65235513naval
>>65236587Liquids are functionally incompressible. Unless you are suggesting that the fuel tanks of the aliens dropship are comparable to the pressures at the center of the sun, you aren't cramming a meaningful amount of extra fuel in by pressurizing it, and you aren't storing a meaningful amount of extra energy by putting that liquid under a (sane) amount of pressure either.You would need something containing an order of magnitude more energy than conventional chemical propellants, and those are already some of the most chemically energetic fuels possible. There's just no nice way to bridge the gulf between chemical energy and the sort of energy needed to do a round trip SSTO without the vast majority of the craft being fuel tank. The only way to do it is to externally pump energy into the propellant, which for a small independent SSTO capable dropship could only come from a nuclear reactor.
>>65235586>aircraft has a gearbox and clutch
>>65235452Yeah, I'm gonna need you to shut your whore mouth
There is honestly nothing worse than warhammerfags. Slop before slop was slop, it is the ur-slop. Tropes and ideas and aesthetics plundered from dozens of different IPs, completely devoid of imagination or original thought.
>>65236810TRVKE
>>65236749ok look it's not perfect here I'm polish, but if we somehow do take off by fuckin hot rocket V-8 engines that like you can drop, it'd be rippin fuckin loud and the manifolds would spit fire and shit. And it's just hammer the fuck down, slammin gears, then you shit the engines off at like 400mph or something but they're metal. It should be ok. Fuckin anyways it's awesome I'm glad we could work together.
Do you enjoy Wart hammer? Then you're a moron mindlessly consuming the lowest quality thrown together in five minutes slop humanity has ever created. You should be ashamed of yourself for having no taste or discernment. And then you should be shot.
>>65236821Warhammer is simply decor for a system of math.
>>65236806>>65236810>>65236813>>65236815As opposed to Macross' 40 years of f14s.
>>65236827>40 years of f14s
>>65236821Says the person watching a series that has had a single idea for it's entire multi decade run.
>>65236850>Can't actually articulate what's "good" about shithammer
>>65236827>>65236850
>>65236821Macross just outs you as a giantess fetish retard
>>65236874Enjoy your JPop.
>>65235703It has magic radar and is capable of climbing to literal space on its own, so it's energy fighting capabilities are practically absurdThey *do* have countermeasures, which is why most A2A fights come down to guns/lasers rather than missiles in Aeronautica (The other side of that coin is that Imperial fighters *do* have Fox-1/2/3 missiles, they just also have autocannons and lascannons)But thematically they're meant to be stars of the Battle of Britain in space, so that's how every story involving them goes
>>65236881Now I want a BSG '05 spinoff that's basically Galactica 1980 but modern times.
>>6523545240k is meant to be:-age of sail in space-WW2/Korea in air-vietnam/cold war/falklands on ground-ww1 for designated idiots on the ground
>>65235703It can boom&zoom from literal space, and is armored enough that most AAMs are gonna do barely more than scratch the paintjob. Entirely different paradigm. Fuckers wouldn't even bother dogfighting, they'd just divebomb airfields from space over and over.
>>65236749Ork
>>65236882>Macross just outs you as a giantess fetish
>>65235578No because it would be far to easy to acknowledge Aliens as a majority of the source material for halo.
>>65236996Chiggy von Richthofen on your six.
>>65235462Based Tauchad
>>65235504that is just a sabre/mig 15 knock off with some random shit like rocket nozzles bolted onto it
>>65236749It's an ork aircraft, brother, in a proper waaagh it would fly with no wings if the git in it flapped his arms really fast
>>65236821That's a mech isn't it ?
>>65236427This looks straight out of Nuclear Option
>>65236884Battle tech is american.
>>65235586>Fast>Fasta>MENTLPjuutiful. Made for propa sky boys, not slow gits.
>>65236930It's ww2 and Korea on the ground now too. Check out the guard's new vehicles.
>>65237296>he doesn't know
>>65236749Its Russian what did you expect?
>>65237256Yes, though I don't endorse anon's use of it here.Variable Fighters are generally designed with the rules of making a reasonable amount of aerodynamic sense and having a mechanically plausible (in so much as all the parts rearrange without cheating attachment points or movements) transformation between modes. The VF-1 cheats the leg attachment point slightly but that's about it for the primary designs of the franchise.It's also much smaller than the Tomcat, I don't think a lot of people notice that.
>>65235703On one hand 40K fighters are space capable and shoot lasers,. No missiles though, that's for sapce combat. On the other hand quad autocannons are considered adequate anti air defense, which implies they fly low and slow, at least when doing ground attack.
>Be nation of space colonies>Go to war with Earth>Realize you'll need to operate within the planet's atmosphere>What the hell are "aerodynamics"?>Cannot into control surfaces, so use vernier thrusters>Throw some 30mm rocket pods and a 20mm cannon onto itYet, somehow, supposedly, the top speed of this dog is listed as mach 5.
>>65235504>the Orks of all motherfuckers have the only airworthy flyer in 40k.I de-Orkified mine, reverse engineering it into an Imperial flyer.
>>65238411>I de-Orkified mine, reverse engineering it into an Imperial flyer.[THE ADMECH AND THE ORDO XENOS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE LOCATION OF YOU, YOUR FAMILY, AND EVERYONE YOU HAVE INTERACTED WITH IN THE LAST [40] LOCAL MONTHS FOR FRIENDLY SNACK AND A CHAT]
>>65237987>Based Veritech appreciator
>>65238372put enough engine on it, you don't need aerodynamics
>>65235452idk my dark talons made my friend pretty salty when ultramarines were peak cheese
>>65238494Oh damn I loved the Messer. It took a bit for the Xi and Penelope to grow on me though.
What is IRL equivalent?
>>65238515I still hate the Xi and Penelopethe Gustav Karl is the only MS from the movie that I likethe Messer needs some kind of grenade or rocket, it's a veritable downgrade not to have those Panzerfaust things clipped to the shield like Geara Dogas had
>>65238520https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Carpenter_(pilot)
>>65236881Mk 1 is prettier.
>>65237450Not him, but none of the fighters were Unseen. The Corsair was obviously Loosely (pun intended) based on the Colonial Viper, but everything else is original to BT.
>>65238626>none of the fighters were Unseenclose but no cigar>>65237450it's still American, licensed artwork notwithstanding
>>65235462A 2000pt list designed around an orbital drop assault using two mantas to drop a bunch of gunships and crisis suits ontop of the enemy.
>>65235586>FAST>FASTA>MENTL
>>65238550It wasn't until I saw the film in the theatres recently that Xi and Penelope really clicked for me. They're meant to be these inhuman clusterfucks burying the recognisable iconography underneath. I still don't like them in the sense I like the RX-178, but I appreciate them.Alyzeus is also neat. I love how much it looks like a proof-of-concept for a flying third gen MS before they even knew if they could get a minovsky flight system small enough. Gives Xi a surprisingly solid run for its money too.
anybody got some youtube videos of orks with their tech?i wanna see this shit for myself
>>65238626>none of the fighters were UnseenTen Aerotechnicians were today sentenced by the Justice Computer to be banished for life to the prison satellite Penal 111.
>>65238682Wasn't Manta absurdally expensive? Like 1500 USD for one? Also being like 2000 points to play by itself too. 40k must have changed so much if bringing two of them somehow makes sense.
>>65238550Xi is the one that grew on me, Penelope is FUGLY, Alyzeus is an improvement on the concept but is still a bit of a mess (But the Nu Gundam hiding inside was pretty awesome.)
>>65235452rule of cool instead of laws of physics
>>65235586this needs to feature in a VTOL-VR mod, that would be propa orky
>>65236749for teh supercharger
>>65238714yeah and it has a cargo hold.
>>65235586'landing gear - totally absent''Wot's dis 'landing'? Landin - make as big a boom as possible when you crashes
>>65238714It's a theorycraft list. Manta being so big makes it absolutely unfeasible to tranport and game with. Frankly, most 40K vehicle models have become too big to play with the small board size everyone uses now.
>>65238714Oh i missread your post, No the manta's aren't actually the list, The list is designed with transport in the manta in mind. For a more mobile cadre on the Doctrinal level.
>>65238515The Messer and Gustav Karl might be low hanging fruit, but they're good designs. I've also grown to like the Xi, but I don't think Penelope will ever click for me.
>>65238737The scale creep of 40K is getting ridiculous. I think James have forgotten it's meant to be playable on your average kitchen table.
>>65238714Not the anon you replied to, but the manta bit is just his force's fluffy backstory. He's not actually playing two mantas
>>65235452>WH40K>sci-fiIt's as fantasy as it gets.Here, have proper sci-fi planes that might also be viable (they're basically B&V coke-fueled designs)
>>65238756The Tau Manta is from aught five.
>>65238775Spiritually Ork>>65238682This is really cool, anon. I'm always a fan of lists that follow an at least somewhat realistic ORBAT. Unfortunately I play Knights so that's not really an option for me.
>>65238630>>65238713Interesting that those two were never included in the list of Unseen...
>>65238781>the list of Unseenpost it
>>65238778Yeah, but it was from FW. That doesn't fucking count. FW did all the stupid crazy hobbyist shit.
>>65236882>giantess
>>65238780its actually pretty effective in the table top too, since all the suits and two gunships of my choice can be in reserve. so its very flexible while being a stat check It really plays like it's designed to fight.
>>65238775Problem with Crimson Skies is they don't decide to include the projects from the LSD laced dreams of Barnes Wallis which would fit right at home in that universe with virtually zero modification.
>>65238775Both of the ones on the right make no sense and are as bad as 40k
>>65238808The problem with Crimson Skies is they haven't released a game in more than 20 years.
>>65238800>watching female streamers painting warhammer models.I have sunk to new lows.
>>65238817They should be on 18th edition by now, finally solving the glaring issues with 17th edition.
>>65238823we can go deeper brother
>>65238856who do you think i was referencing.
>>65238868wow small world
>>65238824Sorry, meant "videogame". I'm too self-isolated and constantly tired to have a hobby that requires social interaction.
>>65235452Well for one, 40k runs on vibes, not science. For another, it's kinda hard to rationalize aircraft when you've got spacecraft.
>>65235452Honestly, 40k gets a hall pass on lore grounds. It's explicit that they're basically in a self imposed technological dark age. Trying to improve anything comes with a significant risk of an inquisitor or other authority smashing down your door and executing you, your family, and pretty much anyone you've even spoken to for it. Apparently not even big names in the Mechanicus can do it without risks and a whole lot of technicalities.If the Emperor woke up, paddled everyone's asses for specifically doing what he told them not to (worshiping him as a god) then told them to pull their heads out of their asses because better technology kills xenos scum more gooder I feel like Imperium military capability would outright multiply in a few years.Irl reason almost always boils down to the people writing the franchises knowing little to nothing about weapons and warfare beyond what they've seen on TV.
>>65239644Its just baffling that the 1911 outlived any atmospherically breathing aircraft that have undergone wind tunnel testing.
>>65239644That doesn't explain their complete disregard for physics.
>>65239681I'm not expecting a bunch of writers to have physics degrees or let it override rule of cool but it would be nice if they still tried. Also don't want a setting that's supposed to be a gorillion years in the future or in some setting where standard tech is well past ours purely relying on real physics as we understand it. At least give me lore saying why your fighters look like they took 50s jets and armored them to an insane degree. Tell me how they still fly using in universe tech.
>>65235586>Fuel Lines: These are routed through the cockpit in case the pilot gets thirsty
>>65239662they also still use the M2 .50 cal
>>65238781iirc the unseen are just the designs they got hornswoggled into buying the rights to from Harmony Gold.The deals made with actual jap studios were (mostly) jim dandy
>>65236433Vibemaxxing, really. 40k runs on vibes and themes instead of logic.
>>65235452Get styled on nerd.
this is the most efficient form of warfare in the 41st
>>65239644>self imposed technological dark ageIt's not really self imposed. They genuinely lost vast majority of knowledge Humanity used to have and rogue AI and literal demonic possesion of inanimate objects remains an everpresent danger. Sure, you can find a CD filled with really cool shit but there's a big chance it's filled with viruses that not only kill all technology but also manage to spread to living people through random bullshit like self-replicating nanites.>>65239681IIRC the canon explanation for clunkiness of Imperium's tech is that a lot of it canonically low budget exploration equipment and farming tools.The Imperial Knight mecha are basically old power loaders and lumberjacking mechs that, once communications severed and Humanity had one of it's multiple total collapses, were used by locals to defend themselves, eventually evolving into a full blown feudal system where they become the dedicated martial class and everyone else became peasants supporting them in exchange for protection.There are good odds that Imperial flyers laugh in the face of aerodynamics because it's cheaper to make them that way and originally they weren't high performance fighter jets but instead glorified crop dusters or something.
>>65239751Orks are fungal lifeforms, so as long as whatever liquid isn't also a fungicide it's good to guzzle.
>>65237251Admech cope because they're incapable of doing this >>65238411
It's bad on purpose because Zeeks are from space and therefore retarded about atmospheric flight
>>65240620Autoloaders are heresy.
>>65240608Fucking space elf magic tech.
